The highest-end audio

[toobfreak]

That's all nice, but it's not what most folks are after.

Irrelevant to what I'm saying. You just keep repeating yourself. You're obviously not an engineer and don't understand where I'm coming from.

Nobody wants 7 million dollar speakers...

Well obviously SOMEONE does, and can afford them, or they wouldn't be made.

You can be a sound snoot off on your little island...just like wine snoots are... but the actual music industry has done fine

Again, there is no "snootery" involved. It's about bell curves, LOTS of people buy VW Beetles, fewer buy a Lincoln Continental, and very few buy a La Voiture Noire.

I guess you just don't understand that behind every market big or small first begins someone willing to explore the development of it. The process of R&D and invention has its OWN rewards separate from marketability or sales, indeed, most great things SOLD to the public are secondary to and an accidental outcome of the original research that went into exploring the possibilities.

 

[G.T.]

Need a budget and I can recommend you a set-up for within that budget

My budget would be $10K but since I want to stay married, let's say $5K.

That's a healthy budget for home audio.

What will you be recording? Vocal only? And will you be mixing it afterwards yourself? (sorry for these questions, they matter lol)

If you're mixing it yourself, the best think you can do is use a healthy chunk of your budget treating the room. The reason for that is because sound travels like a thousand feet a second...and you'll mix something in your room to the point you think it sounds great - - - but then when you play it back outside of that room (in the car, on a home system, in ear buds, etc.)....it will sound like complete dogshit. That's because when you're in the untreated room, you're hearing a mash-up of the direct source and all of its reflections.

The #1 mistake of home audio (that almost everyone makes and later regrets) is that they blow their wad on equipment when its the room that needed simple treatment in the first place.

In layman's terms: you'll get a better sound out of $2k equipment and $3k room treatment then you would get out of $5k equipment.


But room treatment doesnt even cost that much - - - it doesnt have to, especially if you're a diy type of dude - - in that case it's WAY cheaper and not all that hard to do.

 

[G.T.]

That's all nice, but it's not what most folks are after.

Irrelevant to what I'm saying. You just keep repeating yourself. You're obviously not an engineer and don't understand where I'm coming from.

Nobody wants 7 million dollar speakers...

Well obviously SOMEONE does, and can afford them, or they wouldn't be made.

You can be a sound snoot off on your little island...just like wine snoots are... but the actual music industry has done fine

Again, there is no "snootery" involved. It's about bell curves, LOTS of people buy VW Beetles, fewer buy a Lincoln Continental, and very few buy a La Voiture Noire.

I guess you just don't understand that behind every market big or small first begins someone willing to explore the development of it. The process of R&D and invention has its OWN rewards separate from marketability or sales, indeed, most great things SOLD to the public are secondary to and an accidental outcome of the original research that went into exploring the possibilities.

I just don't give a shit about your outlier opinion. I'm more interested in what the common folks identify with. We're down here talking about Muscle Cars. You go talk about yachts in the pink sweater forums, mayte. This isn't for you.

 

[toobfreak]

These look like seriously sweet speakers.
But I'm kinda sold on my Bowers & Wilkins (two towers and a sub) at a fraction of the cost.
They're now ten years old and sound as good as the day I bought 'em!

Best Bowers & Wilkins speakers: budget, premium, bookshelf, floorstanders

B&W's very best floorstanders and bookshelf models

www.whathifi.com

Bowers & Wilkins | Speakers, Headphones & Sound Systems

Experience audio excellence with Bowers & Wilkins award-winning wireless speakers, headphones, home theater speakers and more. Shop online today.

www.bowerswilkins.com

B&W makes many nice, quality, attractive high end speakers. Like all things, the process begins with a chief engineer designing his "statement" product, the very best he can do as a reference standard regardless of its cost or marketability, then out of that evolves a whole series of marketable products borrowing from the parent technology set for various price points.

For B&W, their statement speaker was the Nautilus-- -- an aesthetically pleasing, artfully balanced solution to creating an ideal, cabinet free, resonance free enclosure without diffraction, which appears to the drivers as finitely large enclosures.

Only $60,000 per pair.

 

[toobfreak]

your outlier opinion.

It's not an "outlier" opinion for people to want better sound quality. If you could build a $200,000 system for $5,000, you wouldn't be trying to rationalize your attitude. This thread is about the highest end audio, not spending a ton of money. If you could get off your high horse for a minute, you'd realize that.

NO PERSON IN THIS WORLD would spend $10,000 for sound they can get for $1,000, or would spend $10,000 for x-quality sound when that same money COULD get them x-SQUARED quality sound!

 

[G.T.]

your outlier opinion.

It's not an "outlier" opinion for people to want better sound quality. If you could build a $200,000 system for $5,000, you wouldn't be trying to rationalize your attitude. This thread is about the highest end audio, not spending a ton of money. If you could get off your high horse for a minute, you'd realize that.

NO PERSON IN THIS WORLD would spend $10,000 for sound they can get for $1,000, or would spend $10,000 for x-quality sound when that same money COULD get them x-SQUARED quality sound!

This thread is about good Mixing Monitors for a home studio.

You got snooty about them being low end.

You were edified that much of the most famous music in the world today was mixed on even lesser equipment. That's just a fact, jack...so when someone references the monitors in the OP as being good, they have that leg to stand on whether you want to whine about it or not.

That's the high horse. Yes, Genius, there's 7 million dollar speakers. There's also nice homes for $400k and yet we can still call them nice in spite of there also being 300 million dollar estates. Get the picture? Nobody needed the snoot, here.

 

[HenryBHough]

If many "high end audio buyers" had a hearing test - by an honest audiologist, not a hearing aid salesperson they'd at least have the tools to figure out what to buy. With today's younger generations having long-since ruined their hearing with ultra-loud crap they can't tell the difference between a plastic clock radio and a $20,000 amplifier with a $30,000 set of speakers. I used to take an NAB test record (in the days of vinyl) with me when shopping for audio. Made no sense to spend (this was 50 years ago) $500 for something that sounded, to me, no better than one selling for $79.

Too many who think they have more money than God simply have more money than brains.

They make the best victims!

 

[G.T.]

If many "high end audio buyers" had a hearing test - by an honest audiologist, not a hearing aid salesperson they'd at least have the tools to figure out what to buy. With today's younger generations having long-since ruined their hearing with ultra-loud crap they can't tell the difference between a plastic clock radio and a $20,000 amplifier with a $30,000 set of speakers. I used to take an NAB test record (in the days of vinyl) with me when shopping for audio. Made no sense to spend (this was 50 years ago) $500 for something that sounded, to me, no better than one selling for $79.

Too many who think they have more money than God simply have more money than brains.

They make the best victims!

That's the catch 22 though, isn't it?

Music is best enjoyed loud. I've never heard a low-volume concert. Although, some elevators do play some relaxing tunes. lol

 

[MarathonMike]

Need a budget and I can recommend you a set-up for within that budget

My budget would be $10K but since I want to stay married, let's say $5K.

That's a healthy budget for home audio.

What will you be recording? Vocal only? And will you be mixing it afterwards yourself? (sorry for these questions, they matter lol)

If you're mixing it yourself, the best think you can do is use a healthy chunk of your budget treating the room. The reason for that is because sound travels like a thousand feet a second...and you'll mix something in your room to the point you think it sounds great - - - but then when you play it back outside of that room (in the car, on a home system, in ear buds, etc.)....it will sound like complete dogshit. That's because when you're in the untreated room, you're hearing a mash-up of the direct source and all of its reflections.

The #1 mistake of home audio (that almost everyone makes and later regrets) is that they blow their wad on equipment when its the room that needed simple treatment in the first place.

In layman's terms: you'll get a better sound out of $2k equipment and $3k room treatment then you would get out of $5k equipment.


But room treatment doesnt even cost that much - - - it doesnt have to, especially if you're a diy type of dude - - in that case it's WAY cheaper and not all that hard to do.

Mostly my piano and vocals and occasionally my son on guitar. Thanks for the tips that's very helpful!

 

[MarathonMike]

Need a budget and I can recommend you a set-up for within that budget

My budget would be $10K but since I want to stay married, let's say $5K.

That's a healthy budget for home audio.

What will you be recording? Vocal only? And will you be mixing it afterwards yourself? (sorry for these questions, they matter lol)

If you're mixing it yourself, the best think you can do is use a healthy chunk of your budget treating the room. The reason for that is because sound travels like a thousand feet a second...and you'll mix something in your room to the point you think it sounds great - - - but then when you play it back outside of that room (in the car, on a home system, in ear buds, etc.)....it will sound like complete dogshit. That's because when you're in the untreated room, you're hearing a mash-up of the direct source and all of its reflections.

The #1 mistake of home audio (that almost everyone makes and later regrets) is that they blow their wad on equipment when its the room that needed simple treatment in the first place.

In layman's terms: you'll get a better sound out of $2k equipment and $3k room treatment then you would get out of $5k equipment.


But room treatment doesnt even cost that much - - - it doesnt have to, especially if you're a diy type of dude - - in that case it's WAY cheaper and not all that hard to do.

I noticed that when I playback the mp3 file on my computer, it has this weird sound like I was singing and playing inside of a big oil drum. But when I listen with ear buds, it sounds quite a bit better.

 

[G.T.]

Need a budget and I can recommend you a set-up for within that budget

My budget would be $10K but since I want to stay married, let's say $5K.

That's a healthy budget for home audio.

What will you be recording? Vocal only? And will you be mixing it afterwards yourself? (sorry for these questions, they matter lol)

If you're mixing it yourself, the best think you can do is use a healthy chunk of your budget treating the room. The reason for that is because sound travels like a thousand feet a second...and you'll mix something in your room to the point you think it sounds great - - - but then when you play it back outside of that room (in the car, on a home system, in ear buds, etc.)....it will sound like complete dogshit. That's because when you're in the untreated room, you're hearing a mash-up of the direct source and all of its reflections.

The #1 mistake of home audio (that almost everyone makes and later regrets) is that they blow their wad on equipment when its the room that needed simple treatment in the first place.

In layman's terms: you'll get a better sound out of $2k equipment and $3k room treatment then you would get out of $5k equipment.


But room treatment doesnt even cost that much - - - it doesnt have to, especially if you're a diy type of dude - - in that case it's WAY cheaper and not all that hard to do.

I noticed that when I playback the mp3 file on my computer, it has this weird sound like I was singing and playing inside of a big oil drum. But when I listen with ear buds, it sounds quite a bit better.

If you want me to walk you through all of this, I'd def be glad to (the room treatment).

It's not all that bad, you need a mirror, some acoustic panels and some bass traps. Those two things can be expensive and store bought, or you can make them pretty easily using a you-tube video, and then they're fully customizable.

If you do want to go forward with it, let me know and I'd have a few specific questions about the room to get you going - and I can link you to the right tutorials to walk you through the rest.

But anyhoo, you've got to decide if you want it to be that extra level of crispy and go forward with the room treatment...& I'll help you along and after that we can look into set-ups (equipment) together...4 sure.

 

[MarathonMike]

Need a budget and I can recommend you a set-up for within that budget

My budget would be $10K but since I want to stay married, let's say $5K.

That's a healthy budget for home audio.

What will you be recording? Vocal only? And will you be mixing it afterwards yourself? (sorry for these questions, they matter lol)

If you're mixing it yourself, the best think you can do is use a healthy chunk of your budget treating the room. The reason for that is because sound travels like a thousand feet a second...and you'll mix something in your room to the point you think it sounds great - - - but then when you play it back outside of that room (in the car, on a home system, in ear buds, etc.)....it will sound like complete dogshit. That's because when you're in the untreated room, you're hearing a mash-up of the direct source and all of its reflections.

The #1 mistake of home audio (that almost everyone makes and later regrets) is that they blow their wad on equipment when its the room that needed simple treatment in the first place.

In layman's terms: you'll get a better sound out of $2k equipment and $3k room treatment then you would get out of $5k equipment.


But room treatment doesnt even cost that much - - - it doesnt have to, especially if you're a diy type of dude - - in that case it's WAY cheaper and not all that hard to do.

I noticed that when I playback the mp3 file on my computer, it has this weird sound like I was singing and playing inside of a big oil drum. But when I listen with ear buds, it sounds quite a bit better.

If you want me to walk you through all of this, I'd def be glad to (the room treatment).

It's not all that bad, you need a mirror, some acoustic panels and some bass traps. Those two things can be expensive and store bought, or you can make them pretty easily using a you-tube video, and then they're fully customizable.

If you do want to go forward with it, let me know and I'd have a few specific questions about the room to get you going - and I can link you to the right tutorials to walk you through the rest.

But anyhoo, you've got to decide if you want it to be that extra level of crispy and go forward with the room treatment...& I'll help you along and after that we can look into set-ups (equipment) together...4 sure.

Awesome! There's two room choices. My living room where my piano is parked is quite large with very high ceilings but it's carpeted so not echoey. I have an electric piano in another room, wood floors 9 foot ceilings kind of echoey. Without going into details, which room choice do you think would be better?

 

[G.T.]

Need a budget and I can recommend you a set-up for within that budget

My budget would be $10K but since I want to stay married, let's say $5K.

That's a healthy budget for home audio.

What will you be recording? Vocal only? And will you be mixing it afterwards yourself? (sorry for these questions, they matter lol)

If you're mixing it yourself, the best think you can do is use a healthy chunk of your budget treating the room. The reason for that is because sound travels like a thousand feet a second...and you'll mix something in your room to the point you think it sounds great - - - but then when you play it back outside of that room (in the car, on a home system, in ear buds, etc.)....it will sound like complete dogshit. That's because when you're in the untreated room, you're hearing a mash-up of the direct source and all of its reflections.

The #1 mistake of home audio (that almost everyone makes and later regrets) is that they blow their wad on equipment when its the room that needed simple treatment in the first place.

In layman's terms: you'll get a better sound out of $2k equipment and $3k room treatment then you would get out of $5k equipment.


But room treatment doesnt even cost that much - - - it doesnt have to, especially if you're a diy type of dude - - in that case it's WAY cheaper and not all that hard to do.

I noticed that when I playback the mp3 file on my computer, it has this weird sound like I was singing and playing inside of a big oil drum. But when I listen with ear buds, it sounds quite a bit better.

If you want me to walk you through all of this, I'd def be glad to (the room treatment).

It's not all that bad, you need a mirror, some acoustic panels and some bass traps. Those two things can be expensive and store bought, or you can make them pretty easily using a you-tube video, and then they're fully customizable.

If you do want to go forward with it, let me know and I'd have a few specific questions about the room to get you going - and I can link you to the right tutorials to walk you through the rest.

But anyhoo, you've got to decide if you want it to be that extra level of crispy and go forward with the room treatment...& I'll help you along and after that we can look into set-ups (equipment) together...4 sure.

Awesome! There's two room choices. My living room where my piano is parked is quite large with very high ceilings but it's carpeted so not echoey. I have an electric piano in another room, wood floors 9 foot ceilings kind of echoey. Without going into details, which room choice do you think would be better?

You won't want to convert your living room if it's used for other things, because your sitting position when you're mixing your music needs to be around 1/3rd off the front wall, roughly...and so your computer desk and all that jazz won't be tightly out of everyone's way.

The living room would be better sounding (after treatment) most likely, because most living rooms are a nice perfect rectangle (square rooms are not ideal), but I'd probably rock with a dedicated room versus an all-purpose room if I were you.

When you get a chance (no rush, and I'm about to leave for the night) - - let me know what the smaller room is like. (length/width/where any doors/windows or odd shapes are).

microsoft paint is a good tool if you suck at computers. it comes with the computer and if you want to make a really amateurish drawing with it, that'd help....or else you can just explain with text.

I look forward to stuff like this man, I'm a total nerd for it.

 

[toobfreak]

This thread is about good Mixing Monitors for a home studio.

You must be on drugs. This thread is about high end audio and the OP wanting to buy a pair of really good, really expensive self-powered speakers. I'll give you $100 if you can show me where there is a word about mixing of recordings or home mixing studios in the OP title or title post.

You got snooty about them being low end.

I never get snooty. That's your own fucked up stoner perception. I was merely making the point that those speakers weren't remotely close to the highest-end / best speakers one can buy which is how the OP represented them. Open your fucking eyes and learn to read.

You were edified that much of the most famous music in the world today was mixed on even lesser equipment.

I've been in the music field since the 1970s, worked in the pro sound engineering field, designed and built my own gear, own about 5,000 recordings and have even known a music producer-- -- you really that much of an arrogant, pompous ass to think you've "edified" me about how recordings are made and what they use? Damn are you a shithead. If good sound engineering was simply a matter of buying better equipment then good recordings would be easy, chump! Everyone could make them! What makes a good sound or recording engineer is the ability to make a good recording even when you DON'T have the best gear! That's just a fact, jack... you ought to know a little about what you're talking about before going around shooting off your big fat dumb mouth.

 

[G.T.]

This thread is about good Mixing Monitors for a home studio.

You must be on drugs. This thread is about high end audio and the OP wanting to buy a pair of really good, really expensive self-powered speakers. I'll give you $100 if you can show me where there is a word about mixing of recordings or home mixing studios in the OP title or title post.

You got snooty about them being low end.

I never get snooty. That's your own fucked up stoner perception. I was merely making the point that those speakers weren't remotely close to the highest-end / best speakers one can buy which is how the OP represented them. Open your fucking eyes and learn to read.

You were edified that much of the most famous music in the world today was mixed on even lesser equipment.

I've been in the music field since the 1970s, worked in the pro sound engineering field, designed and built my own gear, own about 5,000 recordings and have even known a music producer-- -- you really that much of an arrogant, pompous ass to think you've "edified" me about how recordings are made and what they use? Damn are you a shithead. If good sound engineering was simply a matter of buying better equipment then good recordings would be easy, chump! Everyone could make them! What makes a good sound or recording engineer is the ability to make a good recording even when you DON'T have the best gear! That's just a fact, jack... you ought to know a little about what you're talking about before going around shooting off your big fat dumb mouth.

Monitoring is implied in the fact that they're monitors. And Synthaholic also later elucidated that. Jesus fuckin Christ you're an asshole, huh? This thread was in good faith and you came in attacking synthaholic because you don't like their politics.

That's such poor form. Just cut it out.

 

[toobfreak]

If many "high end audio buyers" had a hearing test - by an honest audiologist, not a hearing aid salesperson they'd at least have the tools to figure out what to buy. With today's younger generations having long-since ruined their hearing with ultra-loud crap they can't tell the difference between a plastic clock radio and a $20,000 amplifier with a $30,000 set of speakers. I used to take an NAB test record (in the days of vinyl) with me when shopping for audio. Made no sense to spend (this was 50 years ago) $500 for something that sounded, to me, no better than one selling for $79.

Too many who think they have more money than God simply have more money than brains.

They make the best victims!

To be fair, Henry, I don't think there is much correlation between a hearing test and musical interpretation. A person can have fine hearing frequency response but poor musical interpretation and vice versa.

 

[toobfreak]

My budget would be $10K but since I want to stay married, let's say $5K.

In layman's terms: you'll get a better sound out of $2k equipment and $3k room treatment then you would get out of $5k equipment.

That's a load of crap, GT. You'll get better sound if you buy the best equipment you can afford and put it in a room without serious intrinsic problems, then set up your speakers properly to minimize room interaction, then add whatever other treatments you need to control nodes and reverberation, etc., which can be done as cheaply or as expensively as one wants to do depending on how fancy you want to be.

 

[G.T.]

My budget would be $10K but since I want to stay married, let's say $5K.

In layman's terms: you'll get a better sound out of $2k equipment and $3k room treatment then you would get out of $5k equipment.

That's a load of crap, GT. You'll get better sound if you buy the best equipment you can afford and put it in a room without serious intrinsic problems, then set up your speakers properly to minimize room interaction, then add whatever other treatments you need to control nodes and reverberation, etc., which can be done as cheaply or as expensively as one wants to do depending on how fancy you want to be.

My budget would be $10K but since I want to stay married, let's say $5K.

In layman's terms: you'll get a better sound out of $2k equipment and $3k room treatment then you would get out of $5k equipment.

That's a load of crap, GT. You'll get better sound if you buy the best equipment you can afford and put it in a room without serious intrinsic problems, then set up your speakers properly to minimize room interaction, then add whatever other treatments you need to control nodes and reverberation, etc., which can be done as cheaply or as expensively as one wants to do depending on how fancy you want to be.

No professional mixes music in an untreated room. Not even one.

Just shaddapp dude.

 

[toobfreak]

Need a budget and I can recommend you a set-up for within that budget

My budget would be $10K but since I want to stay married, let's say $5K.

That's a healthy budget for home audio.

What will you be recording? Vocal only? And will you be mixing it afterwards yourself? (sorry for these questions, they matter lol)

If you're mixing it yourself, the best think you can do is use a healthy chunk of your budget treating the room. The reason for that is because sound travels like a thousand feet a second...and you'll mix something in your room to the point you think it sounds great - - - but then when you play it back outside of that room (in the car, on a home system, in ear buds, etc.)....it will sound like complete dogshit. That's because when you're in the untreated room, you're hearing a mash-up of the direct source and all of its reflections.

The #1 mistake of home audio (that almost everyone makes and later regrets) is that they blow their wad on equipment when its the room that needed simple treatment in the first place.

In layman's terms: you'll get a better sound out of $2k equipment and $3k room treatment then you would get out of $5k equipment.


But room treatment doesnt even cost that much - - - it doesnt have to, especially if you're a diy type of dude - - in that case it's WAY cheaper and not all that hard to do.

I noticed that when I playback the mp3 file on my computer, it has this weird sound like I was singing and playing inside of a big oil drum. But when I listen with ear buds, it sounds quite a bit better.

If you want me to walk you through all of this, I'd def be glad to (the room treatment).

It's not all that bad, you need a mirror, some acoustic panels and some bass traps. Those two things can be expensive and store bought, or you can make them pretty easily using a you-tube video, and then they're fully customizable.

If you do want to go forward with it, let me know and I'd have a few specific questions about the room to get you going - and I can link you to the right tutorials to walk you through the rest.

But anyhoo, you've got to decide if you want it to be that extra level of crispy and go forward with the room treatment...& I'll help you along and after that we can look into set-ups (equipment) together...4 sure.

I was right. You must work for some sort of commercial dealer selling some sort of crap, right? No wonder you are so bothered by my telling people what a rip off the industry is!

 

[G.T.]

Need a budget and I can recommend you a set-up for within that budget

My budget would be $10K but since I want to stay married, let's say $5K.

That's a healthy budget for home audio.

What will you be recording? Vocal only? And will you be mixing it afterwards yourself? (sorry for these questions, they matter lol)

If you're mixing it yourself, the best think you can do is use a healthy chunk of your budget treating the room. The reason for that is because sound travels like a thousand feet a second...and you'll mix something in your room to the point you think it sounds great - - - but then when you play it back outside of that room (in the car, on a home system, in ear buds, etc.)....it will sound like complete dogshit. That's because when you're in the untreated room, you're hearing a mash-up of the direct source and all of its reflections.

The #1 mistake of home audio (that almost everyone makes and later regrets) is that they blow their wad on equipment when its the room that needed simple treatment in the first place.

In layman's terms: you'll get a better sound out of $2k equipment and $3k room treatment then you would get out of $5k equipment.


But room treatment doesnt even cost that much - - - it doesnt have to, especially if you're a diy type of dude - - in that case it's WAY cheaper and not all that hard to do.

I noticed that when I playback the mp3 file on my computer, it has this weird sound like I was singing and playing inside of a big oil drum. But when I listen with ear buds, it sounds quite a bit better.

If you want me to walk you through all of this, I'd def be glad to (the room treatment).

It's not all that bad, you need a mirror, some acoustic panels and some bass traps. Those two things can be expensive and store bought, or you can make them pretty easily using a you-tube video, and then they're fully customizable.

If you do want to go forward with it, let me know and I'd have a few specific questions about the room to get you going - and I can link you to the right tutorials to walk you through the rest.

But anyhoo, you've got to decide if you want it to be that extra level of crispy and go forward with the room treatment...& I'll help you along and after that we can look into set-ups (equipment) together...4 sure.

I was right. You must work for some sort of commercial dealer selling some sort of crap, right? No wonder you are so bothered by my telling people what a rip off the industry is!

No, wrong. I don't sell any audio equipment or room treatments and neither do any of my friends.
you're just being an asshole.