The Hidden Beginning

[JoeB131]

No one who understood the geopolitical history of the last century could have written.... "And after WWII, they added a bunch of German Scientists to their team. "


There was no more burning hatred than that of the Germans for the Russians.

Yo, Happy Ending, educate yourself.

The Forgotten Rocketeers: German Scientists in the Soviet Union, 1945–1959 - War on the Rocks

On Aug. 21, 1957, in the deserts of central Kazakhstan, flames licked the concrete of the Baikonur Cosmodrome. After three disastrous failed tests, rocket

warontherocks.com

From Hitler to Stalin: The secret story how German scientists helped built the Soviet A-bomb

After Nazi Germany was defeated, both the U.S. and the USSR tried to capture its leading scientific minds to use for developing nuclear weapon – and...

www.rbth.com

Soviet soldiers might have been quite surprised when in 1945 they approached Baron Manfred von Ardenne’s home near Berlin. As described by an eyewitness, the “half-mansion, half-castle” was decorated with a sign in Russian saying, “Dobro pojalovat!” (‘Welcome’). “Ardenne well understood how the wind was now blowing,” the officers joked.

Indeed, Ardenne, a scientist who developed the first broadband amplifier, contributed to establishing a stable radio system in Hitler’s Germany, and he also worked on the Nazi’s nuclear project. Caught in the Soviet zone of occupation, he knew that he now had to work for Moscow. And so did many of his colleagues.

 

[JoeB131]

George Earle was a special emissary of FDR's to Europe...and returned in 1944 with proof that implicated the Soviets in the Katyn Forest massacre (In April of 1943, the mass graves of thousands of shot, bayoneted, and asphyxiated Polish officers were uncovered in the Katyn pine forest near Smolensk, Russia.) Earle testified later at the Katyn Forest hearings that Joe Levy of the NYTimes, warned him that bringing an anti-Soviet report to FDR would be a career ender : "George, you don't know what you are going to over there. Harry Hopkins has completed domination over the President and the whole atmosphere over there is 'pink.'" West, "American Betrayal," p.211.

Uh, let's put it into perspective, okay.

The Soviets killed 22,000 Polish Military officers. Many of those officers served during the Polish-Russian War of 1920, where Poland seized Soviet land.

The Nazis killed 6 Million Poles, including 3 million Jews.

It just wasn't that big of a deal. Winning the war was more important, and we needed the USSR to win the war, because they were doing all the heavy lifting.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"The United States would retain its nuclear monopoly for barely four years. In 1949 the USSR exploded its own bomb, and the nuclear arms race that has dominated geopolitics ever since was on, just as Szilard, Einstein, and others had dreaded. Today it is estimated that there are just under 14,000 nuclear weapons around the world, in the hands of nine countries . . . several of which are bitter rivals or even blood enemies."

The A-Bomb and Us | National Review

Seventy-five years after the first atomic explosion, our fear has only increased.

www.nationalreview.com

On April 5, 1951, Judge Irving R. Kaufman sentenced the Rosenbergs to death for theft of atomic secrets, and, resulted in "the communist aggression in Korea, with the resultant casualties exceeding 50,000 and who knows but that millions more of innocent people may pay the price of your treason." Judge Kaufman's Sentencing Statement in the Rosenberg Case

a. It is clear today, based on archival evidence, unearthed by researchers in Russia and released in the United States, that Kaufman was correct. "Absent an atomic bomb, Stalin would not have released Pyongyang's army to conquer the entire Korean peninsula. Confident that his possession of atomic weapons neutralized America's strategic advantage, Stalin was emboldened to unleash war in Korea in 1950." Haynes, Klehr, and
Vassiliev, "Spies: The Rise and Fall of the KGB in America," p. 143, 545. And Romerstein and Breindel,"The Venona Secrets," p. xv, 253.

b. It is important to connect the treachery with the impact of that treachery: the theft of the nuclear technology with 36,940 Americans killed, 91,134 wounded, and 8,176 still missing, and this does not include at least two million civilian lives claimed on both sides. Bruce Cumings, "The Korean War: A History.' Included were 1.3 million South Korean casualties, including 400,000 dead. North Korea, 2 million casualties, and 900,000 Chinese soldiers killed.

 

[PoliticalChic]

George Earle was a special emissary of FDR's to Europe...and returned in 1944 with proof that implicated the Soviets in the Katyn Forest massacre (In April of 1943, the mass graves of thousands of shot, bayoneted, and asphyxiated Polish officers were uncovered in the Katyn pine forest near Smolensk, Russia.) Earle testified later at the Katyn Forest hearings that Joe Levy of the NYTimes, warned him that bringing an anti-Soviet report to FDR would be a career ender : "George, you don't know what you are going to over there. Harry Hopkins has completed domination over the President and the whole atmosphere over there is 'pink.'" West, "American Betrayal," p.211.

Uh, let's put it into perspective, okay.

The Soviets killed 22,000 Polish Military officers. Many of those officers served during the Polish-Russian War of 1920, where Poland seized Soviet land.

The Nazis killed 6 Million Poles, including 3 million Jews.

It just wasn't that big of a deal. Winning the war was more important, and we needed the USSR to win the war, because they were doing all the heavy lifting.

"It just wasn't that big of a deal."
What a stupid post.

I bet you read news accounts of airline disasters with the same level of interest as the weather report.

Gads, you're a disgusting example of a human being.

 

[PoliticalChic]

George Earle was a special emissary of FDR's to Europe...and returned in 1944 with proof that implicated the Soviets in the Katyn Forest massacre (In April of 1943, the mass graves of thousands of shot, bayoneted, and asphyxiated Polish officers were uncovered in the Katyn pine forest near Smolensk, Russia.) Earle testified later at the Katyn Forest hearings that Joe Levy of the NYTimes, warned him that bringing an anti-Soviet report to FDR would be a career ender : "George, you don't know what you are going to over there. Harry Hopkins has completed domination over the President and the whole atmosphere over there is 'pink.'" West, "American Betrayal," p.211.

Uh, let's put it into perspective, okay.

The Soviets killed 22,000 Polish Military officers. Many of those officers served during the Polish-Russian War of 1920, where Poland seized Soviet land.

The Nazis killed 6 Million Poles, including 3 million Jews.

It just wasn't that big of a deal. Winning the war was more important, and we needed the USSR to win the war, because they were doing all the heavy lifting.

"Winning the war was more important, and we needed the USSR to win the war, because they were doing all the heavy lifting. "

False. Too bad you know nothing of history.

By attacking in June, Hitler had planned to avoid Russia's three greatest generals....December, January, and February.
He didn't.


So....once one recognizes that Stalin was going to be the winner.....
....why did FDR send him supplies that the Allies could have used?

The schools hide the truth to shield FDR from richly deserved contumely.

Same reason so many universities eschew teaching the French Revolution....students might recognize that it gave birth to every totalitarian revolution in modern times.


"....realistically middle sized Germany could not defeat the much larger Ussr in the long term. Germany would have eventually surrendered to the western allies to prevent total occupation by the USSR ..."
So did the Red Army really singlehandedly defeat the Third Reich Stuff I Done Wrote - The Michael A. Charles Online Presence (comment)




"Between June 22, 1941, and January 31, 1942, the Germans had lost 6,000 airplanes and more than 3,200 tanks and similar vehicles; and no less than 918,000 men had been killed, wounded, or gone missing in action, amounting to 28.7 percent of the average strength of the army, namely, 3,2 million men.[33]

(In the Soviet Union, Germany would lose no less than 10 million of its total 13.5 million men killed, wounded, or taken prisoner during the entire war; and the Red Army would end up claiming credit for 90 per cent of all Germans killed in the Second World War.)
Clive Ponting, 'Armageddon: The Second World War,' p. 130; Stephen E. Ambrose 'Americans at War,' p. 72. ”



No one who wasn't a Soviet sympathizer claimed that Germany would defeat Russia.

 

[JoeB131]

"The United States would retain its nuclear monopoly for barely four years. In 1949 the USSR exploded its own bomb, and the nuclear arms race that has dominated geopolitics ever since was on, just as Szilard, Einstein, and others had dreaded. Today it is estimated that there are just under 14,000 nuclear weapons around the world, in the hands of nine countries . . . several of which are bitter rivals or even blood enemies."

yes, the point is, no technology remains exclusive for very long.

Now, all that said, we have this existential dread of nukes today that people really didn't have at the time. At the time, it was just another weapon.

Living under the threat of annihilation for decades, we see it differently today, and have these long discussions about the morality of Hiroshima that no one had at the time.

 

[beautress]

You're lying, but you may not know it. Your party is feeding you their shit and you're eating it. I actually remember my parents discussing the events you just eliminated from your conscience, except that Americans thought ending the war-making machines of Nagasaki and Hiroshima was better than the Japanese/German alliance ridding themselves of our West Coast and moving onward and eastward to the leadership area in Washington DC as their ultimate goal. Hitler was getting beaten by the Allies, but they had many German Nazi operatives in their ally, Japan in order to sack America that sacked Hitler's regime of nutcase Nazis. We beat them through the will of God who loved what America was --a true friend to Great Britain and free people in Europe who'd been assaulted by Hitler's henchmen, and in particularly were set on genocide of the Jewish people who scrimped, saved, and flourished in spite of being the boot scrapers of hateful seekers of something-for-nothing Nazi masterminds of mankind's destruction to even the score of WWI against them.

Wow, that was a lot of babble. The reality is the USSR did most of the heavy lifting in beating the Axis. Japan had no intention of invading the west coast. they just wanted to drag the war out long enough to get a favorable settlement.

Someday you will stop buying the farm, except you seem to be profiting from the fits of the Democrat something-for-nothing Party. When and if they ever get total power they crave, they will simply become the little Hitlers they act like.

hey, we've seen what happens when your side gets into power, we are all a lot poorer but we are "right with Jay-a-zus"

"Wow, that was a lot of babble." /unspin/: Joe's nailed-shut mind refuses to single out a tree from that forest there.... even when it is pointed out clearly.

I have to thank you, Mr. Joe, for what seems to me to be your silliness in the face of losing the common man's freedoms if your Democrats dearest obliterate the Constitution as seems to be the current habituated wont. 'Cause it's funny to people who like order and responsibility from government. Even so, your duty to support the dismantling of American tenets the most successful society in the world has proved the United States are the best of good people. Am I prejudiced in the favor of my country? Yeah, I am. I love the USA.

 

[PoliticalChic]

What would have happened if Roosevelt hadn't been wedded to Stalin?

Hanson Baldwin, military critic of the New York Times, declares in his book, "Great Mistakes of the War:" 'There is no doubt whatsoever that it would have been to the interest of Britain, the United States, and the world to have allowed and indeed to have encouraged-the world's two great dictatorships to fight each other to a frazzle.'
Baldwin writes that the United States put itself "in the role-at times a disgraceful role-of fearful suppliant and propitiating ally, anxious at nearly any cost to keep Russia fighting. In retrospect, how stupid!"


George Kennan’s view of Roosevelt’s performance during the war is considerably harsher than Harriman’s. After commenting bitterly on the “inexcusable body of ignorance about the Russian Communist movement, about the history of its diplomacy, about what had happened in the purges, and about what had been going on in Poland and the Baltic States,” Kennan turns more directly to FDR alone:

I also have in mind FDRs evident conviction that Stalin, while perhaps a somewhat difficult customer, was only, after all, a person like any other person; that the reason we hadn’t been able to get along with him in the past was that we had never really had anyone with the proper personality and theproper qualities of sympathy and imagination to deal with him, that he had been snubbed all along by the arrogant conservatives of the Western capitals; and that if only he could be exposed to the persuasive charms of someone like FDR himself, ideological preconceptions would melt and Russia’s cooperation with the West could be easily arranged. For these assumptions there were no grounds whatsover; and they were of a puerility that was unworthy of a statesman of FDRs stature.

mmisi.org -&nbspThis website is for sale! -&nbspmmisi Resources and Information.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"The United States would retain its nuclear monopoly for barely four years. In 1949 the USSR exploded its own bomb, and the nuclear arms race that has dominated geopolitics ever since was on, just as Szilard, Einstein, and others had dreaded. Today it is estimated that there are just under 14,000 nuclear weapons around the world, in the hands of nine countries . . . several of which are bitter rivals or even blood enemies."

yes, the point is, no technology remains exclusive for very long.

Now, all that said, we have this existential dread of nukes today that people really didn't have at the time. At the time, it was just another weapon.

Living under the threat of annihilation for decades, we see it differently today, and have these long discussions about the morality of Hiroshima that no one had at the time.

Russia would not have had the bomb sans Roosevelt and the Rosenbergs.

 

[JoeB131]

False. Too bad you know nothing of history.

By attacking in June, Hitler had planned to avoid Russia's three greatest generals....December, January, and February.
He didn't.


So....once one recognizes that Stalin was going to be the winner.....
....why did FDR send him supplies that the Allies could have used?

Because it wasn't that clear. Not that we sent them all that much in terms of supplies, anyway.

The fact was, the USSR was engaging the majority of the Wehrmacht, we didn't even open an effective second front until 1944 with Normandy.

The McCarthyist revisionists were all about how we gave away too much, but the reality is, we retained more than we probably deserved. The thing was, by 1945, everyone was pretty much sick and tired of the war and were happy to see it end.

 

[JoeB131]

Russia would not have had the bomb sans Roosevelt and the Rosenbergs.

Sure they would have. They added a bunch of German Scientists and equipment to their arsenal after 1945. it was kind of only a matter of time.

 

[beautress]

"The United States would retain its nuclear monopoly for barely four years. In 1949 the USSR exploded its own bomb, and the nuclear arms race that has dominated geopolitics ever since was on, just as Szilard, Einstein, and others had dreaded. Today it is estimated that there are just under 14,000 nuclear weapons around the world, in the hands of nine countries . . . several of which are bitter rivals or even blood enemies."

yes, the point is, no technology remains exclusive for very long.

Now, all that said, we have this existential dread of nukes today that people really didn't have at the time. At the time, it was just another weapon.

Living under the threat of annihilation for decades, we see it differently today, and have these long discussions about the morality of Hiroshima that no one had at the time.

JoeB sez "yes, the point is, no technology remains exclusive for very long."

Mr. Joe, are you a thousand percent certain that the Chinese and Russians are not holding back on technologies no one else knows? Are you a fraction uncertain? And you do not feel their thefts are a smokescreen? Even just a little bit?

 

[beautress]

Russia would not have had the bomb sans Roosevelt and the Rosenbergs.

Sure they would have. They added a bunch of German Scientists and equipment to their arsenal after 1945. it was kind of only a matter of time.

You missed one very important scientist, Mr. Joe. His name was Albert Einstein

 

[Moonglow]

Similar to Lincoln ignoring the Constitution only until winning the war.

The Constitution existed all through the Civil War the atomic bomb was not available all through WWII.

 

[PoliticalChic]

False. Too bad you know nothing of history.

By attacking in June, Hitler had planned to avoid Russia's three greatest generals....December, January, and February.
He didn't.


So....once one recognizes that Stalin was going to be the winner.....
....why did FDR send him supplies that the Allies could have used?

Because it wasn't that clear. Not that we sent them all that much in terms of supplies, anyway.

The fact was, the USSR was engaging the majority of the Wehrmacht, we didn't even open an effective second front until 1944 with Normandy.

The McCarthyist revisionists were all about how we gave away too much, but the reality is, we retained more than we probably deserved. The thing was, by 1945, everyone was pretty much sick and tired of the war and were happy to see it end.

Stalin decided where to open that 'second front,' even though it would cost far more American lives.
And Stalin decided on 'unconditional surrender' as the only end for the war.....even though it cost thousands more American casualties...

And Roosevelt grabbed the ankles and said, 'please, sir....may I have another.'

And morons ....you.....still applaud this traitorous behavior.




a. So....why did Stalin insist on the Allies opening the front at Normandy rather than the bases already conquered in Italy?

Here's why: he wanted the Red Army to cut Europe in half , as he would be able to occupy same.

And Roosevelt agreed with him....Roosevelt wanted to give all of Eastern Europe over to this homicidal maniac who slaughtered and oppressed millions!



b.Don't believe that that was the reason for Stalin's insistence on the "second front" being as far west as possible?

"Any time or any place where German forces are engaged by the American and the British represents good luck for Stalin. That is true because Hitler's strength is taxed just as much by fighting to the south as it would be fighting to the west."
Diana West, "American Betrayal," p. 266.
How can one argue with that?

Well.....only if "taxing Hitler's strength" wasn't the aim.....gaining the territory of central Europe for the Red Army was.



c. 'To withdraw from the European continent [Italy] to re-invade the European continent was simply crazy.'
Dunn, "Caught Between Roosevelt and Stalin," p.195-196
Yet, Roosevelt sided with Stalin over Churchill, and over General Mark Clark, commander of the 5th US Army, in Italy.
Why?



Still care to deny that Stalin was in charge of Roosevelt's war efforts?
...and Stalin would get his way down to the last American casualty?

In the effort to install world-wide communism, any loss to either America, or to Germany, was a gain for Stalin.

Thank you, Franklin Roosevelt

 

[Dick Foster]

and because Franklin Roosevelt was a socialist

And that's a bad thing, why? Frankly, I'm looking at capitalism right now and for most people, it's a shit sandwich.

To you anything requiring work and self motivation or personal responsibility is a shit sandwich. Therefore you're destined to always be holding the shitty end of the stick because it's all you deserve. That's how capitalism works.

 

[beautress]

False. Too bad you know nothing of history.

By attacking in June, Hitler had planned to avoid Russia's three greatest generals....December, January, and February.
He didn't.


So....once one recognizes that Stalin was going to be the winner.....
....why did FDR send him supplies that the Allies could have used?

Because it wasn't that clear. Not that we sent them all that much in terms of supplies, anyway.

The fact was, the USSR was engaging the majority of the Wehrmacht, we didn't even open an effective second front until 1944 with Normandy.

The McCarthyist revisionists were all about how we gave away too much, but the reality is, we retained more than we probably deserved. The thing was, by 1945, everyone was pretty much sick and tired of the war and were happy to see it end.

Stalin decided where to open that 'second front,' even though it would cost far more American lives.
And Stalin decided on 'unconditional surrender' as the only end for the war.....even though it cost thousands more American casualties...

And Roosevelt grabbed the ankles and said, 'please, sir....may I have another.'

And morons ....you.....still applaud this traitorous behavior.




a. So....why did Stalin insist on the Allies opening the front at Normandy rather than the bases already conquered in Italy?

Here's why: he wanted the Red Army to cut Europe in half , as he would be able to occupy same.

And Roosevelt agreed with him....Roosevelt wanted to give all of Eastern Europe over to this homicidal maniac who slaughtered and oppressed millions!



b.Don't believe that that was the reason for Stalin's insistence on the "second front" being as far west as possible?

"Any time or any place where German forces are engaged by the American and the British represents good luck for Stalin. That is true because Hitler's strength is taxed just as much by fighting to the south as it would be fighting to the west."
Diana West, "American Betrayal," p. 266.
How can one argue with that?

Well.....only if "taxing Hitler's strength" wasn't the aim.....gaining the territory of central Europe for the Red Army was.



c. 'To withdraw from the European continent [Italy] to re-invade the European continent was simply crazy.'
Dunn, "Caught Between Roosevelt and Stalin," p.195-196
Yet, Roosevelt sided with Stalin over Churchill, and over General Mark Clark, commander of the 5th US Army, in Italy.
Why?



Still care to deny that Stalin was in charge of Roosevelt's war efforts?
...and Stalin would get his way down to the last American casualty?

In the effort to install world-wide communism, any loss to either America, or to Germany, was a gain for Stalin.

Thank you, Franklin Roosevelt

One American didn't care for Roosevelt's softness for the Russian killing machine did something about it. His name was Dwight Eisenhower, and he ran for President to place an ally in the White House to those who gave up 4 years to break up what was looking more and more like the wanton murders of Jews in Europe, all toll 6 million deaths the Russians did not weigh in on, considering they ushered Jews out of Mother Russia over many years of time. Fiddler on the Roof was a movie made about the cruelty of being thrown out of a land you worked you entire life to improve, although some are fooled on account of the amazing music in this unforgettable Musical that told a story, gently, on ethnic cleansing.

 

[whitehall]

The strange thing is that the eggheads who created the monstrosity get a pass regarding the morality of using the thing on humans. Scientists had no idea if the weapon would cause a chain reaction that would destroy the world but they went ahead with it anyway. The crazy thing is that Vegas became a tourist attraction for atomic testing during the 50's and nobody seemed concerned about the long term effects. Hollywood made millions with movies like "Them" and everyone enjoyed it but most of the cast in the movie "The Conqueror" came down with cancer.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The strange thing is that the eggheads who created the monstrosity get a pass regarding the morality of using the thing on humans. Scientists had no idea if the weapon would cause a chain reaction that would destroy the world but they went ahead with it anyway. The crazy thing is that Vegas became a tourist attraction for atomic testing during the 50's and nobody seemed concerned about the long term effects. Hollywood made millions with movies like "Them" and everyone enjoyed it but most of the cast in the movie "The Conqueror" came down with cancer.

Perhaps you've heard of Pearl Harbor? It was in all the papers.

 

[JoeB131]

JoeB sez "yes, the point is, no technology remains exclusive for very long."

Mr. Joe, are you a thousand percent certain that the Chinese and Russians are not holding back on technologies no one else knows? Are you a fraction uncertain? And you do not feel their thefts are a smokescreen? Even just a little bit?

Naw, I don't worry about that even a little bit. I worry more about what the crazy person in the White House is doing right now. Today, Russia is a broken empire, and China is still mostly a backwards country.