The gun control conundrum...but only for gun grabbers, the rest of us know the truth...

[2aguy]

And this is what happens when there are guns and people willing to fight...had they had more guns....history would have been different...

Uh, no, it wouldn't have. The uprising in Warsaw failed epically. They killed all of 19 Germans. 13,000 Jews and Poles died, and 56,000 were deported to concentration camps, where they were exterminated.

And if they waited a couple more weeks, the Russians would have liberated them, no fuss.

You anti gunners...such twits.....the Jews in the uprising had 10 pistols.....later, after the nazis were first pushed back they got 50 pistols........

This is why we insist on keeping the 2nd Amendment...had they had 10s of thousands of guns the Germans would have been fed into a meat grinder......twit.

 

[MaryL]

[
I understand that. We NEED cars, We don't need guns. You get that?

Fortunately, my rights aren't limited by your subjective interpretation of need.

But your right to bear arms are base on obsolete notions and subjective opinions, as well. So? Relax, nobody is going to break into your house and take your guns any time soon. It took a while for notions to change, like attitudes regarding smoking. A generation or two, and I predict guns will eventually be banned or extremely difficult to obtain and own. Morals and ideals change, it used to be legal to own slaves, too.

 

[2aguy]

And this is what happens when there are guns and people willing to fight...had they had more guns....history would have been different...

Uh, no, it wouldn't have. The uprising in Warsaw failed epically. They killed all of 19 Germans. 13,000 Jews and Poles died, and 56,000 were deported to concentration camps, where they were exterminated.

And if they waited a couple more weeks, the Russians would have liberated them, no fuss.

You anti gunners...such twits.....the Jews in the uprising had 10 pistols.....later, after the nazis were first pushed back they got 50 pistols........

This is why we insist on keeping the 2nd Amendment...had they had 10s of thousands of guns the Germans would have been fed into a meat grinder......twit.

Here you go....joe.....if you just used your brain once in a while you wouldn't seem so stupid when you post.....


Alan Steinweis’s bad history

Well, the point of the Uprising wasn’t to save the lives of the participants; they knew that they were almost certain to die to no matter what.

They tied down Nazi forces for over fourth months — whereas the French and Polish armies had been unable to resist the Nazi invaders for even two months.
-------


With 10 pistols.....later 50 relic pistols and 50 grenades were given to them by the polish military.....now if they had all had rifles and pistols....just imagine how history would have changed....and how many lives could have been saved....


The Warsaw ghetto uprising: Armed Jews vs. Nazis

On Jan. 18, 1943, the Germans rounded up 7,000 Jews and sent them to the extermination camp at Treblinka; they killed 600 more right in Warsaw. But on that day, an uprising began. In the beginning, the Jewish Fighting Organization had about 600 volunteers; the Jewish Military Association had about 400, and there were thousands more in spontaneous small groups.

The Jews had only 10 handguns, but the Germans did not realize how under-armed the Jewish fighters were.

After four days of fighting, the Germans on January 21 pulled back from the ghetto, to organize better. A diary written in the Warsaw ghetto exulted, “In the four days of fighting we had made up for the shame of Jewish passivity in the first extermination action of July, 1942.” [Ber Mark, “The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising,” in “They Fought Back" ed., Yuri Suhl (N.Y.: Paperback Library, 1968; 1st pub. 1967), pp. 104-06].

Not only the Germans were shocked by the unexpected resistance, but also the Jews were astonished. They could not imagine until then that the beaten, exhausted victims could rise against a mighty enemy who had conquered Europe. Many Jews who were in the streets of Warsaw during the fighting refused to believe that on Zamenhof and Mila streets Jewish boys and girls had attacked Germans. The large-scale fighting which followed convinced all that it was possible.

------

In February 1943, the Polish Home Army transferred 50 revolvers (many of them defective), 50 hand grenades, and four pounds of explosives to the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto. The Warsaw Jews also manufactured their own explosives, including Molotov cocktails. But, wrote Ringelblum, as in Biblical days, “their most potent weapon was their deep sense of national pride and responsibility.”

 

[2aguy]

[
I understand that. We NEED cars, We don't need guns. You get that?

Fortunately, my rights aren't limited by your subjective interpretation of need.

But your right to bear arms are base on obsolete notions and subjective opinions, as well. So? Relax, nobody is going to break into your house and take your guns any time soon. It took a while for notions to change, like attitudes regarding smoking. A generation or two, and I predict guns will eventually be banned or extremely difficult to obtain and own. Morals and ideals change, it used to be legal to own slaves, too.

Slaves were kept because the slaves didn't have guns.........you nuts want to make genocide, mass murder, ethnic cleansing and slavery easier.......you guys really, really need to study history and human behavior.......you are completely clueless......

You want to be victims......and you want your future grandchildren to be victims too......

 

[2aguy]

[
I understand that. We NEED cars, We don't need guns. You get that?

Fortunately, my rights aren't limited by your subjective interpretation of need.

But your right to bear arms are base on obsolete notions and subjective opinions, as well. So? Relax, nobody is going to break into your house and take your guns any time soon. It took a while for notions to change, like attitudes regarding smoking. A generation or two, and I predict guns will eventually be banned or extremely difficult to obtain and own. Morals and ideals change, it used to be legal to own slaves, too.

What is obsolete about self defense......do you think the Mexicans across the border think the right to have guns is obsolete as the government with their drug cartel masters murder them in the thousands...and they have no guns to stop it?

I swear....you left wing regressives think that history only began when you woke up this morning.....

Our facts are not subjective opinions......actual research, actual statistics support everything we tell you about guns...not one thing you believe about guns is true......research and statistics show you are wrong on every single aspect of the issue.

Not opinion...fact.

 

[JoeB131]

Again with the lie about American guns in Mexico...if you are going to believe every lie the gun grabbers tell you what use are you in a real discussion...

Or we can just apply common sense that when you have more gun stores per capita on the border than anywhere else int eh US, those guns in Mexico are probably coming from there.

 

[2aguy]

the Russians in afghanistan and we are now pulling out of two countries cause morons like you didn't want to engage monsters...and all they had were small arms and improvised explosives...

When you chickenhawks go over there to fight the monsters, I'll take your smack talking seriously. The reason we aer pulling out is because they LIED to us about what we were there for to start with.

you guys are wrong on every single aspect of guns in the United States.......unarmed people are the only ones who experience genocide, mass murder and ethnic cleansing...that morons like you want to put future generations of America on the same footing as the Jews and Europeans in Germany who were sent, defenseless, to the gas chambers is just incredible........as well the defenseless Mexicans being murdered in the thousands by their government and the cartels......because they do not have the guns to stop it....because the Mexican Government said they didn't need guns...

Well, it fhe US didn't smuggle a quarter million guns into mexico every year, maybe they wouldn't have such a problem.

On guns in Mexico...joe...please learn something before you post...

if a gun is sold at a store in May and found at a crime scene in July, this suggests that the May purchaser was working on behalf of the July criminal. Under the time-to-crime theory, a long period between the gun’s sale and its recovery at a crime scene suggests that the gun was stolen from its lawful owner and then sold into the black market. Of the Mexican guns that are successfully traced, the average weapon age is fifteen years, indicating that they were legal American guns that were stolen and then sold into the black market.14

3. Additional Sources of Mexican Criminal Arms The Mexican drug cartels have set up gangs in the United States to steal American guns and smuggle them into Mexico.155 The Zetitas (little Zetas) gang has cells in Houston, Laredo, and San Antonio and is believed to be carrying out many gun-store robberies.156 A gun stolen from Houston by a Mexican gang in 2007 might well end up being seized by Mexican police in 2010 and then traced to the United States. But that does not prove that American gun laws are to blame for Mexican crime. Another key source of American crime guns in Mexico is the Mexican government. The United States sells large quantities of guns to the federal, state, and local Mexican governments.157 These Mexican government purchases may themselves be a major source of Mexican crime guns.

-------------

were approximately 150,000 desertions from the Mexican army from 2003 to 2009.158 Stated another way, about one-eighth of the Mexican army deserts annually.159 Many of these deserters take their government-issued automatic rifles, some with U.S. origins, with them.160 As CNN reported, many of these deserters go to work for higher-paying drug cartels.161 Indeed, the Zetas, an especially violent gang even by Mexican standards, was founded by Mexican Special Forces deserters.16

------------

So the fact that a Mexican army deserter is later caught with his M-16 does not mean that the U.S. civilian gun market is somehow at fault. The same is true for M-16s and other U.S. military weapons that come to the Mexican drug cartels after first being legally sold to governments such as Guatemala or South Korea.

 

[JoeB131]

What is obsolete about self defense......do you think the Mexicans across the border think the right to have guns is obsolete as the government with their drug cartel masters murder them in the thousands...and they have no guns to stop it?

I swear....you left wing regressives think that history only began when you woke up this morning.....

Our facts are not subjective opinions......actual research, actual statistics support everything we tell you about guns...not one thing you believe about guns is true......research and statistics show you are wrong on every single aspect of the issue.

Not opinion...fact.

Yawn, guy, your facts are no more true than you dick is made bigger every time you guy a new gun.

Guy, you start dozens of gun threads every week... and put hundreds of posts on them, usually the same boring NRA bullshit about how guns are good.

Have you considered seeing a shrink about your shortcomings?

 

[2aguy]

Again with the lie about American guns in Mexico...if you are going to believe every lie the gun grabbers tell you what use are you in a real discussion...

Or we can just apply common sense that when you have more gun stores per capita on the border than anywhere else int eh US, those guns in Mexico are probably coming from there.

Apparently no dipstick.......try to do some research....moron.

 

[2aguy]

What is obsolete about self defense......do you think the Mexicans across the border think the right to have guns is obsolete as the government with their drug cartel masters murder them in the thousands...and they have no guns to stop it?

I swear....you left wing regressives think that history only began when you woke up this morning.....

Our facts are not subjective opinions......actual research, actual statistics support everything we tell you about guns...not one thing you believe about guns is true......research and statistics show you are wrong on every single aspect of the issue.

Not opinion...fact.

Yawn, guy, your facts are no more true than you dick is made bigger every time you guy a new gun.

Guy, you start dozens of gun threads every week... and put hundreds of posts on them, usually the same boring NRA bullshit about how guns are good.

Have you considered seeing a shrink about your shortcomings?

Twit...the only one fixated on the NRA is you and the other gun grabbers......I link all of my sources...please...point out the NRA linked sources...moron....

If they used my research they would be more effective.....

 

[2aguy]

Again with the lie about American guns in Mexico...if you are going to believe every lie the gun grabbers tell you what use are you in a real discussion...

Or we can just apply common sense that when you have more gun stores per capita on the border than anywhere else int eh US, those guns in Mexico are probably coming from there.

Wrong again moron.


Marlene Blanco Lapola, chief of the Guatemala National Police, says that the police have “lost” at least 2,000 guns, including automatic UZIs and AK-47s.166 Likewise, many U.S. Army M-16 rifles were left behind in Vietnam and many of them have been sold into the global black market.167

------

The prevalence of grenades, grenade launchers, submachine guns, and other such weapons in Mexico shows that the Mexican drug cartels have important sources of weapons other than the law-abiding U.S. retail market. An individual cannot buy grenades or machine guns over the counter at a gun store in Tucson or at a gun show in San Antonio.179 Testifying before the U.S. House Subcommittee on Border, Maritime, and Global Counterterrorism on July 16, 2009, ATF stated that the grenades and other military-grade weaponry were coming into Mexico via the southern border with Guatemala.180

After investigating the Mexican black market in arms, reporters William La Jeunesse and Maxim Lott summarized some sources of drug cartel weapons:


The Black Market.

Mexico is a virtual arms bazaar, with fragmentation grenades from South Korea, AK-47s from China, and shoulder-fired rocket launchers from Spain, Israel and former Soviet bloc manufacturers.

Russian crime organizations. Interpol says Russian Mafia groups such as Poldolskaya and Moscow-based Solntsevskaya are actively trafficking drugs and arms in Mexico. South America.

During the late 1990s, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) established a clandestine arms smuggling and drug trafficking partnership with the Tijuana cartel, according to the Federal Research Division report from the Library of Congress.

 

[Centinel]

For the ignorant OP, and others on the right just as ignorant, here’s an explanation as to why there is no such thing as a ‘gun grabber,’ that no one seeks to ‘take’ anyone’s guns, and why that would be legally and Constitutionally impossible.

The Second Amendment.

In DC v. Heller, the Supreme Court held that the right to possess a firearm is an individual right, pursuant to the right of self-defense.

Consequently, any state or local jurisdiction that enacted a measure ‘banning’ firearms or ‘authorizing’ their ‘confiscation’ would be struck down as un-Constitutional by the courts, no guns ‘grabbed.’

The Fourth Amendment.

The Fourth Amendment prohibits government from engaging in unwarranted searches and seizures of private property.

Consistent with Second Amendment jurisprudence, no magistrate would issue a warrant authorizing government to search for or seize firearms from private citizens, absent such a warrant, no guns can be ‘grabbed.’

The Fifth Amendment.

The Fifth Amendment’s Takings Clause requires government to afford citizens due process and just compensation for any private property taken, including firearms.

This means that citizens may challenge in court the taking of any firearm, each gun individually, before the firearm can indeed be taken.

This would literally take decades to adjudicate, rendering it legally impossible to ‘confiscate’ firearms, and once again no guns ‘grabbed.’

Given these facts of law, therefore, we see that the notions of ‘gun grabbing’ and ‘gun confiscation’ are ignorant idiocy, a moronic myth contrived by the right, an inane lie propagated by conservatives for no other reason than to foment demagoguery and fear-mongering for some perceived partisan gain.

The lies of ‘gun grabbing’ and ‘gun confiscation’ are yet another manifestation of the reprehensible right.

And which of congress' legislative powers, as enumerated in Art I, sec 8, would allow gun control legislation?

 

[2aguy]

And a lot of guns come from Mexican soldiers deserting...hardly buying guns in the U.S......

The Mexican Army. More than 150,000 soldiers deserted in the last six years, according to Mexican Congressman Robert Badillo. Many took their weapons with them,

 

[MaryL]

[
I understand that. We NEED cars, We don't need guns. You get that?

Fortunately, my rights aren't limited by your subjective interpretation of need.

But your right to bear arms are base on obsolete notions and subjective opinions, as well. So? Relax, nobody is going to break into your house and take your guns any time soon. It took a while for notions to change, like attitudes regarding smoking. A generation or two, and I predict guns will eventually be banned or extremely difficult to obtain and own. Morals and ideals change, it used to be legal to own slaves, too.

What is obsolete about self defense......do you think the Mexicans across the border think the right to have guns is obsolete as the government with their drug cartel masters murder them in the thousands...and they have no guns to stop it?

I swear....you left wing regressives think that history only began when you woke up this morning.....

Our facts are not subjective opinions......actual research, actual statistics support everything we tell you about guns...not one thing you believe about guns is true......research and statistics show you are wrong on every single aspect of the issue.

Not opinion...fact.

Times have changed. People used to able to buy machine guns out of mail order catalogues, and we didn't have mass murders in schools or killing sprees. Mail order machine guns didn't sell very well, because Americans had a sense of solidarity. Didn't need em'. But the mafia bought em' up like hot cakes, hence the term Chicago typewriter or chopper, they were good if you were bad. bad people are abusing current gun laws. So your logic is, we NEED firearms to protect us from other people that HAVE firearms? That seems more like a vicious cycle than a solution.

 

[2aguy]

[
I understand that. We NEED cars, We don't need guns. You get that?

Fortunately, my rights aren't limited by your subjective interpretation of need.

But your right to bear arms are base on obsolete notions and subjective opinions, as well. So? Relax, nobody is going to break into your house and take your guns any time soon. It took a while for notions to change, like attitudes regarding smoking. A generation or two, and I predict guns will eventually be banned or extremely difficult to obtain and own. Morals and ideals change, it used to be legal to own slaves, too.

What is obsolete about self defense......do you think the Mexicans across the border think the right to have guns is obsolete as the government with their drug cartel masters murder them in the thousands...and they have no guns to stop it?

I swear....you left wing regressives think that history only began when you woke up this morning.....

Our facts are not subjective opinions......actual research, actual statistics support everything we tell you about guns...not one thing you believe about guns is true......research and statistics show you are wrong on every single aspect of the issue.

Not opinion...fact.

Times have changed. People used to able to buy machine guns out of mail order catalogues, and we didn't have mass murders in schools or killing sprees. Mail order machine guns didn't sell very well, because Americans had a sense of solidarity. Didn't need em'. But the mafia bought em' up like hot cakes, hence the term Chicago typewriter or chopper, they were good if you were bad. bad people are abusing current gun laws. So your logic is, we NEED firearms to protect us from other people that HAVE firearms? That seems more like a vicious cycle than a solution.

No.....you just stated the point....normal people did not use machine guns to murder other people...criminals did....and they still got them after they were made illegal....and normal people still didn't use them to murder people.

Today.....with 357,000,000 million guns in private hands, normal people are still not using them to commit crime or murder....

The gun murder total for 2014 from the FBI table 8 on homicide was 8,124. Keeping in mind that 90% of murderers have criminal records and histories of violence, and that 70-80% of gun murder victims are also criminals with long histories of crime and violence.....that leaves the gun murder rate of innocent, non criminal affiliated murder at about 1,624 people...in a country of over 320,000,000.

So, if you subtract that from 357,000,000 you get 356,991,876 million guns in private hands that were not used to commit murder.

Have you stopped to contemplate what those numbers mean? Normal people...with all of those guns, are not using them for violence or irresponsibly.......in 2013 there were only 505 accidental gun deaths when we had 320,000,000 guns in private hands...compared to 35,000 accidental car deaths and 3,000 accidental drownings.



On top of that 1,500,000 guns in private hands were used to actually stop violent crime and save lives..according to bill clinton.

So your entire premise is wrong. Your beliefs about guns in the United States are untrue, and not based in the reality.

Then for more reality...look at our border. Just across the border you have complete gun control. Normal Mexican citizens cannot legally get a gun....it is a Right in their constitution, but is not allowed by their politicians who control access. So the Texas counties that border Mexico have more guns than the Mexican states on the other side of the border....more guns in Texas legally owned.......few if any legally owned in Mexico......and gun murder in the Mexican states next to the Texas gun owning states is catastrophic......and very little in Texas.

You guys are terrified of normal people owning guns...and that fear is unjustified. It is not based in actual behavior by normal Americans, yet you want to take guns away from the people who do not abuse them.

Of course, the bad guys will still get guns easily.....I post article after article about how easy it is for criminals in Britain, Australia and Europe to get guns...it is just not possible for normal citizens in those countries to get guns. You guys then point to lower murder rates over there...but refuse to acknowlege that before they confiscated guns, those countries already had low murder rates...because of cultural differences, not gun access. How do we know it is culture and not access...because after these countries banned guns...their gun crime rates stayed the same..........

Again, normal people do not misuse guns.

Even our gun accident rate had gone down. This year it has gone up by about 81 accidental deaths....but gun ownership has gone up by 37,000,000 million guns since 2013.......and you guys are the ones who fight gun safety education in public schools.....not us.

Everything you believe about gun ownership in this country is wrong...not true, and not based in reality. And yet you want us to listen to you about gun control.....how real is that?

And you have no understanding of history....we show you time and again where unarmed people have been murdered by their governments...all over the world...and the one thing they had in common....the government had guns...the people were disarmed.

Then you say...but a few people with guns wouldn't make a difference......that is why we say that shows that wide spread gun ownership is needed.....in the Jewish Ghetto in Poland, the Jews only had 10 pistols....and held of the Germans for weeks. If the entire civilian population of Poland had widespread gun ownership...the ability of the Germans to hold the country would have been impossible.....especially if each country in Europe had widespread civilian ownership of guns...which they didn't.

Once the German army defeated the poorly led militaries of all of those countries...the civilians had no choice but to submit....

Except for Switzerland. They had 435,000 armed civilians......and the Germans chose not to invade...they invaded everyone else, but not Switzerland...too big of a headache....and Switzerland did not have a holocaust....the rest of Europe handed over 12 million innocent men, women and children to the Germans for murder........

So....we will have to disagree.

 

[2aguy]

[
I understand that. We NEED cars, We don't need guns. You get that?

Fortunately, my rights aren't limited by your subjective interpretation of need.

But your right to bear arms are base on obsolete notions and subjective opinions, as well. So? Relax, nobody is going to break into your house and take your guns any time soon. It took a while for notions to change, like attitudes regarding smoking. A generation or two, and I predict guns will eventually be banned or extremely difficult to obtain and own. Morals and ideals change, it used to be legal to own slaves, too.

What is obsolete about self defense......do you think the Mexicans across the border think the right to have guns is obsolete as the government with their drug cartel masters murder them in the thousands...and they have no guns to stop it?

I swear....you left wing regressives think that history only began when you woke up this morning.....

Our facts are not subjective opinions......actual research, actual statistics support everything we tell you about guns...not one thing you believe about guns is true......research and statistics show you are wrong on every single aspect of the issue.

Not opinion...fact.

Times have changed. People used to able to buy machine guns out of mail order catalogues, and we didn't have mass murders in schools or killing sprees. Mail order machine guns didn't sell very well, because Americans had a sense of solidarity. Didn't need em'. But the mafia bought em' up like hot cakes, hence the term Chicago typewriter or chopper, they were good if you were bad. bad people are abusing current gun laws. So your logic is, we NEED firearms to protect us from other people that HAVE firearms? That seems more like a vicious cycle than a solution.

So your logic is, we NEED firearms to protect us from other people that HAVE firearms? That seems more like a vicious cycle than a solution.

Nope....my logic is that there are criminals and evil people....and that the most effective way for a normal person to stop a violent criminal attack by these evil people is with a gun. A gun allows the weak to resist the strong...wether that attacker has a gun, a knife, a bat, or just their empty hands....or comes at the innocent person with more than one criminal......the innocent person has a better chance of surviving...without injury, if they can use a gun to stop the attack. Criminals have their choice of victim...and they normally choose an isolated individual, a smaller individual, an older individual, a woman......people they know they can easily overcome......wether they have a gun or not. The victim...never knows when or where they will be attacked...what physical state they will be in when the attack happens...try to fight 2-3 attackers with Krav Maga as a 60 year old woman with a walker....see where that gets you.......

My logic is that normal, innocent, law abiding people have a right to survive a criminal attack.....and that a gun is the most effective tool to make that happen. And I don't care if the criminal has a gun, because they will always get the gun even if they are illegal. If the criminal has a gun, and the victim has a gun....the victim still has a better chance to survive than if he doesn't have a gun....because most of the time the criminal will leave rather than fight to the death...and go and look for an unarmed victim.

Most self defense with guns do not end up with the victim firing a shot.....the criminal runs away or surrenders.....no shots fired.

so again...you are wrong.

 

[2aguy]

[
I understand that. We NEED cars, We don't need guns. You get that?

Fortunately, my rights aren't limited by your subjective interpretation of need.

But your right to bear arms are base on obsolete notions and subjective opinions, as well. So? Relax, nobody is going to break into your house and take your guns any time soon. It took a while for notions to change, like attitudes regarding smoking. A generation or two, and I predict guns will eventually be banned or extremely difficult to obtain and own. Morals and ideals change, it used to be legal to own slaves, too.

What is obsolete about self defense......do you think the Mexicans across the border think the right to have guns is obsolete as the government with their drug cartel masters murder them in the thousands...and they have no guns to stop it?

I swear....you left wing regressives think that history only began when you woke up this morning.....

Our facts are not subjective opinions......actual research, actual statistics support everything we tell you about guns...not one thing you believe about guns is true......research and statistics show you are wrong on every single aspect of the issue.

Not opinion...fact.

Times have changed. People used to able to buy machine guns out of mail order catalogues, and we didn't have mass murders in schools or killing sprees. Mail order machine guns didn't sell very well, because Americans had a sense of solidarity. Didn't need em'. But the mafia bought em' up like hot cakes, hence the term Chicago typewriter or chopper, they were good if you were bad. bad people are abusing current gun laws. So your logic is, we NEED firearms to protect us from other people that HAVE firearms? That seems more like a vicious cycle than a solution.

And another thing.....you are also wrong because of this fact, this reality. More Americans own and carry guns for self defense....and the crime rate and the gun murder rate went down. How is that possible if anything you believe about guns in this country is true?

No......we are not arguing causality...though we could. Right now, this is simply about the statistical fact.....from Government statistics on crime....that even though more law abiding people own and carry guns for self defense....our crime rate and our gun murder rate went down, not up.

According to you and your beliefs about guns...this is not possible...but it is the truth. The reason it is true...because normal people owning and carrying guns for self defense do not use them to commit crimes or murder......

Again, 357,000,000 million guns in private hands....in 2014 there were 8,124 gun murders, the majority of which were career criminals murdering other criminals, leaving 1,642 innocent, normal people as victims of gun murder.....vs. 35,000 accidental car deaths and 3,000 drowning deaths.....

So the owners of 356,991,876 million guns (think about the size of that number) did not use them to commit murder.......

 

[M14 Shooter]

But your right to bear arms are base on obsolete notions and subjective opinions, as well.

Hardly. There's nothing subjective or obsolete about the right to self defense.
And so the fact remains - my rights are not subject to your subjective idea of "need".

 

[skookerasbil]

Hey.....bottom line is, the gun grabbers have never been as unpopular in America as they are today!! And thank God for that.........every poll of voter concerns has global warming and gun control in the 20's at the bottom of the list of concerns. Yuk.......yuk.........

Who's not winning?

ps ) will post up polls upon request!!!

 

[skookerasbil]

Priorities


Nobody cares about gun control