Zone1 The Great Difficulty Of Being Religious.....

[Woodznutz]

Yeah and let me guess, "the deceiver", "tbe whisper" and "the garden" are not literal either.

Whatever you wish, but the lessons are clear.

 

[Trickster]

Whatever you wish, but the lessons are clear.

Yeah, do not seek knowledge and do not smooche.

Great lesson.

 

[Meriweather]

Yeah, do not seek knowledge and do not smooche.

Great lesson.

Those are not the lessons. It is not against any Commandment or custom to seek knowledge. Faith in God Commands obedience to God.

Sex is often taught thus: Fire in a fireplace: That's wonderful. A fire consuming the entire home, not wonderful at all. Sex within its confines, wonderful. Undisciplined sex, not so good. (Ask anyone who has contracted a sexually transmitted disease.)

 

[rightwinger]

Hey now. Harry Potter is very inspiring and the author is a brilliant mind and a role model to all.

The Bible however... Not so much.

She was better at creating a mythological fable than the Bible

 

[Woodznutz]

Yeah, do not seek knowledge and do not smooche.

Great lesson.

Don't not make up knowledge out of whole cloth (don't believe everything you hear), and respect revelation (revealed knowledge). Millions die needlessly each year because they stray too close to "the edge". Revelation defines the edge.

 

[Woodznutz]

She was better at creating a mythological fable than the Bible

Excellent point, as unintended as it was.

 

[Donald H]

Are you saying you can write a better version of the Adam and Eve story?

I go back to the etymology. In Hebrew, Adam can be the name of a man, or it can describe all of humanity.

It's a name for a lot of men but it can't be the first man on earth.

Using the name to desrcribe all of humanity can work but that shouldn't be speculated at the same time as suggesting that Adam was a man.

Science can't define when the first of our early ancestors could be called man.

You know that!

 

[Trickster]

Don't not make up knowledge out of whole cloth (don't believe everything you hear), and respect revelation (revealed knowledge). Millions die needlessly each year because they stray too close to "the edge". Revelation defines the edge.

Knowledge is never attained through revelation. That is just more biblical silly goosery.

 

[Donald H]

Whatever you wish, but the lessons are clear.

The Catholic church has already granted, 'whatever you wish' to their flock. you don't need to.

This thread is opening new doors for Christians, with all the suggestions that bible stories can be accepted as allegorical.

That represents huge progress!

Some of the most adamant literal believers are being coerced into accepting that they need to rethink their beliefs. A year ago even Meriweather wouldn't dare suggest that any part of the bible isn't literally true. Now she's imagining an allegorical meaning for the name 'Adam'.

It's happened that fast!

 

[Ace Nova]

In the face of the communist take-over of religious institutions.

1. It was a brilliant plan by the communists:
“Antonio Gramsci, the philosopher who became the iconic thinker of the 1960s, laid down the blueprint for precisely what has happened in Britain: the capture of all society's institutions, such as schools, universities, churches, the media, the legal profession, the police and voluntary groups. This intellectual elite was persuaded to sing from the same subversive hymn-sheet so that the moral beliefs of the majority would be replaced by the values of those on the margins of society, the perfect ambience in which the Muslim grievance culture could be fanned into the flames of extremism."
Melanie Phillips

2. "In 1907, a group of Methodists formed the Methodist Federation for Social Service (MFSS). The aim was to influence other Protestant groups. The next day, the group is received by President Theodore Roosevelt in the White House. One of the leaders, Harry F. Ward drafts a Social Creed that will be adopted by the 1908 General Conference and by the Federal Council of the Churches of Christ in America. Methodist Federation for Social Action

"The church, therefore, in the opinion of the federation, must accept
the Marxist point of viewThe federation, therefore, wants the religious leaders to preach a religious creed, not based upon the Bible and in defense of the American way of life, but one that is based upon the atheistic foundations of the philosophy of Marx. The federation wants the ministers to declare their judgment against the social economic system under which Americans live and prosper today in favor of the Socialist system, which in Russia and the satellite countries has brought the peoples." Read the ebook Investigation of Communist activities in the New York City area. Hearings (Volume pt. 5-6, pp. 1969-2143) by United States. Congress. House. Committee on Un-Am


3. And in trhe Catholic Church today...

"The Catholic turn to socialism is something to celebrate​

The turn to socialism must be seen as part of a general retrieval of the genuine political thought of the Catholic Church, against the misinterpretations of an older generation. The better part of a decade has now been spent identifying and correcting liberal corruptions of Catholic doctrine; once these have been dealt with, the socialist character of Catholic social teaching becomes clear.

By “socialism” I mean two things essentially: the rejection of the liberal, capitalist view of private property, and consequently the abolition of an economic order predicated on the exploitation of those who do not have property by those who do. Socialists desire a society of the common good, in which citizens collaborate for mutual advantage in enjoyment of peace and security; a society where the public authority is empowered to correct injuries to the common good, rather than standing by indifferently, as if it were powerless in the face of evil.
What a socialist means by the abolition of private property....."

The Catholic turn to socialism is something to celebrate - Catholic Herald

Why are so many younger Catholics drawn to socialism? Writing on this site, CC Pecknold recently suggested that "an increasingly vocal band of very online Catholics" is trying and failing "to reconcile socialist principles with (specifically Thomist) natural law principles". As one of these...

thecatholicherald.com

4. There is absolutely no basis for Socialism in the Bible.

An accurate understanding of the Bible requires the distinction between 'redistribution' and 'generosity.'
"Some people conclude from these verses that the Bible supports government-enforced wealth redistribution. But what these verses really show is that the Bible advocates generosity.

These are two very different concepts.
Generosity springs from free will....not force, coercion, or threats.
The motivation to give and share originates in compassion, as 1 John 3:17 indicates—but there is choice involved.
With socialism, it is the opposite.
Redistribution of wealth is always by force of government. The government simply uses its overwhelming power to take what it thinks is “fair” from the “givers.” Is God a Socialist?



5. Generosity is based on choice....on free will....the cornerstone of Judeo-Christian tradition.
Not so with any of these six: Socialism, Liberalism, Communism, Fascism, Nazism, or Progressivism

Leviticus 19:9-18
​

9 When you gather the harvest of your land, do not reap the corners of your field nor gather the gleanings of your harvest. 10 You shall not glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather all the grapes of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the Lord, your God.

11.“You are not to steal, nor should you deceive nor lie to one another. Nor shall you swear a false oath by my name, nor shall you profane my name. I am your God, the Lord.

13. “You shall not defraud your neighbor, nor shall you rob him. You shall not keep the wages of the person you have hired all night, until the morning. 14.;You shall not curse the deaf, nor shall you put a stumbling block before the blind, for you shall fear your God. I am the Lord.

15“You shall not commit any injustice in judging the poor, nor shall you show partiality to the mighty. You shall judge your neighbor with righteousness. 16You are not to spread slander among your people, nor shall you act against the life of your neighbor. I am the Lord.

17“You shall not hate your brother in your heart, nor shall you rebuke your brother in any way, lest you bear sin because of him. You shall not seek vengeance nor bear a grudge against the children of your people. You shall love your neighbor as yourself.I am the Lord.


Isaiah 58:

This rather is the type of fast that I wish:
to loosen the fetters of injustice,
to undo the thongs of the yoke,
to set free those who are oppressed
and to break every yoke,
7 to share your bread with the hungry
and to offer shelter to the homeless poor,
to clothe the naked when you behold them
and not turn your back on your own kin.
8. Then your light will break forth like the dawn,
and your wound will quickly be healed;
your righteousness will go before you,
and the glory of the Lord will be your rear guard.
9. Then, when you call, the Lord will answer;
you will cry out for help,
and he will say, “Here I am.”
If you cease to tolerate the yoke of oppression,
the pointing of fingers and malicious words,
10 if you offer your food to the hungry
and satisfy the needs of the afflicted,
then your light will rise in the darkness,
and your night will become like midday.


Mark 12:

30.You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ 31. The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Matthew 5:

The Beatitudes​

He said:

3“Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4.Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5.Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6.Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7.Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8.Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9.Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10. Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Trickster]

The Catholic church has already granted, 'whatever you wish' to their flock. you don't need to.

This thread is opening new doors for Christians, with all the suggestions that bible stories can be accepted as allegorical.

That represents huge progress!

Some of the most adamant literal believers are being coerced into accepting that they need to rethink their beliefs. A year ago even Meriweather wouldn't dare suggest that any part of the bible isn't literally true. Now she's imagining an allegorical meaning for the name 'Adam'.

It's happened that fast!

Bah. "Allegory" my ass. That is just rationalization and application of postmodern literally/structural analysis on what is supposed to be "absolute truth". This is not "progress" in any
way, it just further confirms and fuels the evasive minds of the religious.

This is all Jordan Peterson's fault. He's been a great source of evil by repopularizing religion through (pseudo)-intellectualization.

Religion was dying. Religious people have regained confidence and it is disturbing.

 

[Woodznutz]

Knowledge is never attained through revelation. That is just more biblical silly goosery.

Formal education is also revelation now, but only after the knowledge has been proven. The point of the scripture was, don't see how close to the edge you can get. The graveyards are filled with such people. Believe the revelator when he says it's deadly.

 

[Woodznutz]

The Catholic church has already granted, 'whatever you wish' to their flock. you don't need to.

This thread is opening new doors for Christians, with all the suggestions that bible stories can be accepted as allegorical.

That represents huge progress!

Some of the most adamant literal believers are being coerced into accepting that they need to rethink their beliefs. A year ago even Meriweather wouldn't dare suggest that any part of the bible isn't literally true. Now she's imagining an allegorical meaning for the name 'Adam'.

It's happened that fast!

Someone (possibly Lady Astor) sarcastically suggested that Churchill's large cigar was a phallic symbol, or another form of thumb sucking. Churchill agree but then said, "It is also a cigar."

 

[Trickster]

Formal education is also revelation now, but only after the knowledge has been proven.

Do you always speak in contradictions or is it just vwhen you have to lie to yourself as you are defending religion?

I know y'all hate public school, possibly because the pedagogy is not based on revelation. Little Zoe is not told to close her eyes and pray herself into literacy. It is not how knowledge works.

The point of the scripture was, don't see how close to the edge you can get. The graveyards are filled with such people. Believe the revelator when he says it's deadly.

Horrible lessons.

It is those who dared approaching that edge who improved humanity. From Gallileo to Columbus to Founding Fathers to Steve Jobs to JK Rowling. Eve was the first "edge explorer". Had the Bible beem a celebration of kniwledge, she'd be a hero.

 

[Donald H]

Bah. "Allegory" my ass. That is just rationalization and application of postmodern literally/structural analysis on what is supposed to be "absolute truth". This is not "progress" in any
way, it just further confirms and fuels the evasive minds of the religious.

This is all Jordan Peterson's fault. He's been a great source of evil by repopularizing religion through (pseudo)-intellectualization.

Religion was dying. Religious people have regained confidence and it is disturbing.

It's the step down from literal beliefs that couldn't survive any longer. It's gained partial acceptance by the scepticals and it can be so comforting to those who have wanted real answers for years.

And it can and will grow from partial acceptance, to being widely accepted answers to replace the myths.

Now who is going to show up and peddle the 'Jonah in a whale' malarkey here on this thread??

 

[Donald H]

Someone (possibly Lady Astor) sarcastically suggested that Churchill's large cigar was a phallic symbol, or another form of thumb sucking. Churchill agree but then said, "It is also a cigar."

We're exceedingly lucky to be a part of a discussion in which faithful literal believers like you, can now laugh at the foolish stories in the bible that were so troublesome that they kept literalists awake at night.

Yesterday's question: Is there anything in the bible that is true, that I or any atheist has attempted to say isn't true?

 

[Woodznutz]

Do you always speak in contradictions or is it just vwhen you have to lie to yourself as you are defending religion?

I know y'all hate public school, possibly because the pedagogy is not based on revelation. Little Zoe is not told to close her eyes and pray herself into literacy. It is not how knowledge works.



Horrible lessons.

It is those who dared approaching that edge who improved humanity. From Gallileo to Columbus to Founding Fathers to Steve Jobs to JK Rowling. Eve was the first "edge explorer". Had the Bible beem a celebration of kniwledge, she'd be a hero.

Do you always speak in contradictions or is it just vwhen you have to lie to yourself as you are defending religion?

I know y'all hate public school, possibly because the pedagogy is not based on revelation. Little Zoe is not told to close her eyes and pray herself into literacy. It is not how knowledge works.



Horrible lessons.

It is those who dared approaching that edge who improved humanity. From Gallileo to Columbus to Founding Fathers to Steve Jobs to JK Rowling. Eve was the first "edge explorer". Had the Bible beem a celebration of kniwledge, she'd be a hero.

Today we have the best of both worlds, however God's revelation to man still outshines what we have "learned by experimentation".

God says, "feed the poor".
Instead, we send men to the moon.

God says, "care for the earth."
Instead, we destroy it.

God say, "Don't sin."
Instead, we base our society on it.

Sin: Falling short of what we are capable of.

 

[Woodznutz]

I know y'all hate public school, possibly because the pedagogy is not based on revelation. Little Zoe is not told to close her eyes and pray herself into literacy. It is not how knowledge works.

Schools could sneak God's principles into the classrooms without the SCOTUS even being aware of it. Why they don't is an enduring mystery.

FYI, private schools, including parochial schools, and military HS academies have higher graduation rates than public schools.

 

[Woodznutz]

We're exceedingly lucky to be a part of a discussion in which faithful literal believers like you, can now laugh at the foolish stories in the bible that were so troublesome that they kept literalists awake at night.

Yesterday's question: Is there anything in the bible that is true, that I or any atheist has attempted to say isn't true?

You are free to hold any opinion that you choose.

 

[Donald H]

God say, "Don't sin."
Instead, we base our society on it.

Instead we have to find agreement amongst us on determining what constitutes a 'sin'?

Literal believers in the bibles don't consider keeping slaves as being sinful.

Can we think of several other sins that the god accepts as morally acceptable.

If they're just allegorical bibles, perhaps the god really doesn't promote evil?

If it's a literally true bible then the god is lying about the A and E creation myth.

That makes your choice an easy no-brainer.