The God of Abraham, as Described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran

[AVG-JOE]

Joe, if you think they are the same, read the Koran and the Bible and then tell me how they are even remotely similar.
The messages are polar opposites. If they were the same God their singular personality should be apparent in both.

True.

What does that MEAN?

Is God impotent? Does He not care? Or is the God of Abraham just that - Abraham's God?

 

[Statistikhengst]

You know, AVG-JOE, I am beginning to get the feeling that koshergrl just doesn't like you....

 

[AVG-JOE]

But you want to do it without reading, and without referencing, the holy texts.

Got it.

Point to text in any of the three stories in question that points to a God other than the God of Abraham as the main character.

​

 

[Statistikhengst]

Joe, if you think they are the same, read the Koran and the Bible and then tell me how they are even remotely similar. The messages are polar opposites. If they were the same God their singular personality should be apparent in both.

I'm not interested in the divergent stories in this thread. I want to establish one way or the other exactly who the God of The Torah is, who the God of The New Testament is, and who the God of The Koran is.


I believe that, no matter what label or name is being used, 'God', as referenced in the three ancient stories under discussion, is indeed the God of Abraham, as first described in The Torah.

In other words - The New Testament and The Koran are both spin offs, attempting to provide access to the God of the Jews.


Step one in any religious debate is to define the various gods being discussed. So far we have the God of Abraham as described first in The Torah, and nadda.

Yepp.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

My question is simple... "Do Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same God?"

Of course. Given the evidence being that there is but one creator, it follows that those who recognize the Creator, respect him for the gifts which he has endowed upon us and are eternally grateful for those, wholly unearned gifts... that our worship of the Creator, despite divergent perspectives, would be of the only Creator option.

If you think I'm wrong, and the three religions...

Ahh

So you do recognize the religions are of distinct perspectives. Good for you.

I'm happy to have helped you work your way through this.

This is easy, ass-u-me-ing the obvious conclusion doesn't makes one too uncomfortable.

I've very much enjoyed your thread.

 

[GISMYS]

The God of Abraham, as Described in The Torah, The New Testament ""IS NOT"" the god found in the The Koran and JESUS found in the koran is just a muslim prophet NOT THE SON OF GOD!

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Joe, if you think they are the same, read the Koran and the Bible and then tell me how they are even remotely similar. The messages are polar opposites. If they were the same God their singular personality should be apparent in both.

The distinction is not in God. The distinction is in the perspective.

Islam's purpose is political. It was established by a sociopath who didn't appreciate that his visions weren't being taken seriously. For a decade he preached his version of God and managed to scratch up a few dozen followers.

The following decade he murdered tens of thousands of Jews and Christians, watching his following rise to in excess of 100,000. From there, Islam spread across to Europe in thousands of raids, burning Churches and Temples infecting virtually every culture known to man, plundering the ancient cultures, robing them of trade and the means to govern themselves, sending the world into what has since been known as "The Dark Ages."

It follows that the perspective of that 'religion' would be distinct... .

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

The God of Abraham, as Described in The Torah, The New Testament ""IS NOT"" the god found in the The Koran and JESUS found in the koran is just a muslim prophet NOT THE SON OF GOD!

It is precisely the same God. What is distinct is the Perspective of the Author.

But it follows that evil's perspective would be distinct from that of God.

 

[GISMYS]

THINK!!!! THE FALSE muslim god HAS NO SON,TO THEM JESUS was just a prophet NOT THE SON OF GOD!!!

 

[AVG-JOE]

My question is simple... "Do Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same God?"

Of course. Given the evidence being that there is but one creator, it follows that those who recognize the Creator, respect him for the gifts which he has endowed upon us and are eternally grateful for those, wholly unearned gifts... that our worship of the Creator, despite divergent perspectives, would be of the only Creator option.

If you think I'm wrong, and the three religions...

Ahh

So you do recognize the religions are of distinct perspectives. Good for you.

I'm happy to have helped you work your way through this.

This is easy, ass-u-me-ing the obvious conclusion doesn't makes one too uncomfortable.

I've very much enjoyed your thread.

A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet, no?

"The Creator" is a cop-out. It's just another title for God. Which God?


Abraham was very specific about his God. Wrote a book and everything!

And his God was pretty specific about naming Abraham too.

Genesis 17:5
No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations.

That's why, 6,000 years later, we still call that particular Deity 'The God of Abraham'.



Step one: Define 'God'. Specifically.

`​

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

THINK!!!! THE FALSE muslim god HAS NO SON,TO THEM JESUS was just a prophet NOT THE SON OF GOD!!!

"... to them ..."

You're speaking of Mohammad's perspective. He could not be who he was desperate to be, if Jesus was the Son of God. In his sick mind, that was HIS JOB.

You must come to grips with the fact that Islam is less a religion and more a Religious Ideology. Islam is a Political Machine, of the Chicago variety. It is the epitome of evil, a religion designed to be operated by sociopaths. Barely distinct from Socialism, it authorizes its adherents to use all means necessary to further its influence.

Like Socialism, Islam is all Peace, Love and Dope on the front end, speaking in glowing terms of 'democracy' and 'fairness' during its ascent toward power, but once it possesses power, it turns to stringent controls over those under its boot and again, like socialism, Islam 'governs' through subjective means, 'interpreting' the Koran in whatever way serves the subjective interests the respective Islamic 'official'.

If you've ever read at the Koran, you'll have noticed the rambling nature of the text. That is intentional and for the purposes noted above.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Specifically, The Quran, The New Testament and The Torah all point different fingers to the same God.

Namely, The God of Abraham as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Quran.

One dysfunctional subset of humanity.

WYGD? ​

 

[AVG-JOE]

Joe, if you think they are the same, read the Koran and the Bible and then tell me how they are even remotely similar. The messages are polar opposites. If they were the same God their singular personality should be apparent in both.

The distinction is not in God. The distinction is in the perspective.

Islam's purpose is political. It was established by a sociopath who didn't appreciate that his visions weren't being taken seriously. For a decade he preached his version of God and managed to scratch up a few dozen followers.

The following decade he murdered tens of thousands of Jews and Christians, watching his following rise to in excess of 100,000. From there, Islam spread across to Europe in thousands of raids, burning Churches and Temples infecting virtually every culture known to man, plundering the ancient cultures, robing them of trade and the means to govern themselves, sending the world into what has since been known as "The Dark Ages."

It follows that the perspective of that 'religion' would be distinct... .

Which, while interesting, says nothing about which God is God in any given scenario.

Step 1: Define 'God'

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

My question is simple... "Do Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same God?"

Of course. Given the evidence being that there is but one creator, it follows that those who recognize the Creator, respect him for the gifts which he has endowed upon us and are eternally grateful for those, wholly unearned gifts... that our worship of the Creator, despite divergent perspectives, would be of the only Creator option.




Ahh

So you do recognize the religions are of distinct perspectives. Good for you.

I'm happy to have helped you work your way through this.

This is easy, ass-u-me-ing the obvious conclusion doesn't makes one too uncomfortable.

I've very much enjoyed your thread.

A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet, no?

"The Creator" is a cop-out.

Given the fact of the Creation, "The Creator" is a fact.

Abraham was very specific about his God. Wrote a book and everything!

Yes he was. And given that the Creator itself inspired such specificity, we can rest assured that such was the will of God.

Step one: Define 'God'. Specifically.

The intelligent force which/who in the beginning, created the heaven and the earth, which we know today as 'the Universe'. At that time, the universe was without form, a void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of 'the waters'. And God said, Let there be light, and there was light.
And God saw the light, that it was good... and with that, the Universe, AKA: the Creation began to take shape, and throughout the eons, has formed through the processes established by the Creator, into what we see about us today.

Specific enough?

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Joe, if you think they are the same, read the Koran and the Bible and then tell me how they are even remotely similar. The messages are polar opposites. If they were the same God their singular personality should be apparent in both.

The distinction is not in God. The distinction is in the perspective.

Islam's purpose is political. It was established by a sociopath who didn't appreciate that his visions weren't being taken seriously. For a decade he preached his version of God and managed to scratch up a few dozen followers.

The following decade he murdered tens of thousands of Jews and Christians, watching his following rise to in excess of 100,000. From there, Islam spread across to Europe in thousands of raids, burning Churches and Temples infecting virtually every culture known to man, plundering the ancient cultures, robing them of trade and the means to govern themselves, sending the world into what has since been known as "The Dark Ages."

It follows that the perspective of that 'religion' would be distinct... .

Which, while interesting, says nothing about which God is God in any given scenario

That's because the subject was not God, but the individual who used God, advancing a Fraudulent 'interpretation' of God as a deceitful means to influence the ignorant.

Much as you are using fraudulent interpretations as a deceitful means to influence the ignorant.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Step one: Define 'God'. Specifically.

The intelligent force which/who in the beginning, created the heaven and the earth, which we know today as 'the Universe'. At that time, the universe was without form, a void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of 'the waters'. And God said, Let there be light, and there was light.
And God saw the light, that it was good... and with that, the Universe, AKA: the Creation began to take shape, and throughout the eons, has formed through the processes established by the Creator, into what we see about us today.

Specific enough?

No.

And yes.

You've only cited various titles and descriptions, except where you call Him 'God' and reference text from an ancient story, and the references used both point straight to Genesis in The Torah, where the starring God is The God of Abraham.



Step 1. Define 'God'.

The God of the Jews is the God of Abraham as described in The Torah.

If He's not, then who is? ​

The God of the Christians is the God of Abraham as described in The Torah and The New Testament.

If He's not, then who is? ​

The God of the Muslims is the God of Abraham as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Quran.

If He's not, then who is? ​

 

[AVG-JOE]

The distinction is not in God. The distinction is in the perspective.

Islam's purpose is political. It was established by a sociopath who didn't appreciate that his visions weren't being taken seriously. For a decade he preached his version of God and managed to scratch up a few dozen followers.

The following decade he murdered tens of thousands of Jews and Christians, watching his following rise to in excess of 100,000. From there, Islam spread across to Europe in thousands of raids, burning Churches and Temples infecting virtually every culture known to man, plundering the ancient cultures, robing them of trade and the means to govern themselves, sending the world into what has since been known as "The Dark Ages."

It follows that the perspective of that 'religion' would be distinct... .

Which, while interesting, says nothing about which God is God in any given scenario

That's because the subject was not God, but the individual who used God, advancing a Fraudulent 'interpretation' of God as a deceitful means to influence the ignorant.

Much as you are using fraudulent interpretations as a deceitful means to influence the ignorant.

Fraudulent?



That's a tall accusation, Brother.

I ass-u-me you can link to post(s) of mine that document AVG-FRAUD?

​

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Step one: Define 'God'. Specifically.

The intelligent force which/who in the beginning, created the heaven and the earth, which we know today as 'the Universe'. At that time, the universe was without form, a void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of 'the waters'. And God said, Let there be light, and there was light.
And God saw the light, that it was good... and with that, the Universe, AKA: the Creation began to take shape, and throughout the eons, has formed through the processes established by the Creator, into what we see about us today.

Specific enough?

No.

And yes.

You've only cited various titles and descriptions, except where you call Him 'God' and reference text from an ancient story, and the references used both point straight to Genesis in The Torah, where the starring God is The God of Abraham.



Step 1. Define 'God'.

The God of the Jews is the God of Abraham as described in The Torah.

If He's not, then who is? ​

The God of the Christians is the God of Abraham as described in The Torah and The New Testament.

If He's not, then who is? ​

The God of the Muslims is the God of Abraham as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Quran.

If He's not, then who is? ​

See how it works folks?

It's called shifting the goal post. And its how every debate with the lowly Anti-theists ends.

It feels that it came up with a good idea. But that idea cratered when the first person recognized that its argument required that every name given to God, requires that there must be a God for every name. There is no principle in nature which requires such.

I am one person.

Yet I am distinct from the perspective of my Father. And his perspective is distinct from that of my Mother, Aunts and Uncles, Siblings and friends. Those are distinct from that of my Children. Within that group, my daughter sees me differently from my sons and my son's perspectives are unique to each of them. And ALL of those are totally distinct from that of my wife.

The OP feels that because they all see me differently, despite them all knowing me personally, many for most of my life or all of their lives, that I must be DOZENS of different people.

And with that, the argument is over.

Sadly the OP will most likely be unable to muster up the objectivity to recognize it.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Which, while interesting, says nothing about which God is God in any given scenario

That's because the subject was not God, but the individual who used God, advancing a Fraudulent 'interpretation' of God as a deceitful means to influence the ignorant.

Much as you are using fraudulent interpretations as a deceitful means to influence the ignorant.

Fraudulent?



That's a tall accusation, Brother.

It's not an accusation, Brother. It's a fact. Learn the difference. It should help to move the conversation along.

I ass-u-me you can link to post(s) of mine that document AVG-FRAUD?

​

Why would I bother? Your thread's been moved to the trash.

As I said, the debate is over and you lost. Brother.

 

[Coyote]

The God of Abraham, as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran...

Is there any good reason not to lump ALL of the followers of this God in to one dysfunctional subset of humanity?

Well...I think we can agree that they all follow a diety with some serious anger-management issues, not to mention a preference for virgins.