The glaring evidence that Obamacare is a catastrophic FAILURE continues to mount

[Listening]

I have no intention ever of playing nice to the enemies of my country.

In light of the comment quoted ...

Did you know that masturbation as a form of self abuse is a sign of PTSD or Childhood Sexual Abuse?
Where it may be none of my business that you have no intention of playing nicely with yourself ... Please seek immediate help.

.

ROTFLMAO......

That was funny

WAAT....really. Good one.

 

[P@triot]

One thing is obvious. Those nursed on Republican propaganda know exactly what they're getting but it tastes so good and nourishes their demanding control freak egos so they can't stop.

They know that it's all bullshit but it feels so good to hear that, despite your hatred for most of the rest of the world, the Fox boobs and boobies love you and tell you that you're sooo smart.

Nobody admits to their Fox or Limbaugh addiction. But the chorus singing in goose stepping harmony is indisputable evidence of their atrophied brains being on the feeding tube.

The giant flushing sound that you hear is their movement swirling the bowl.

You just proved Rotweiler's point. You can't defend the policy itself. Even if you argue it's okay for the young and healthy to subsidize the old, sick and poor you still have the minisucle benefit provided to those people overshadowed by a mountain of negatives that have come with it. You can keep barking Fox news and Limbaugh until you're blue in the face. The fact is I don't have the time personally to watch or listen to either of them. One doesn't need to listen to either of them or right wing pundit or right wing news source to see the obvious problems with Obamacare. Until you can show that you can make a credible argument that despite what is in front of our faces, Obamacare is largely a success, instead of vomiting 'you're a Fox news parrot' endlessly, no one is going to take you seriously.

 

[P@triot]

So you're contention is that Obamacare has cut people's health care expenses in half? Are the millions of Americans complaining about their premiums and deductibles going up just lieing?

It's a long way from a full solution. But covering those that we choose not to pay enough to access cost and cure effective health care should give us a big boost on the results side of the ledger.

Maybe if and when the GOP becomes relevant enough again to win some elections, they will lead the cost saving solutions.

Do you think that's possible?

No I really don't. Because in this country's political climate and the 'goodies' hole that politicians have dug themselves over the years, no politician can afford to take anything away from anyone.

Now you can say some solution isn't true. And we're actually seeing that now. This Obamacare solution is making the healthcare costs of millions of Americans go up significantly. And it isn't actually reducing the cost of health care either. That some people have to pay less for it because they're being subsidized is not the same thing as reducing the cost of health care.

 

[P@triot]

People are programmed to forget that when Republicans had power last, they almost sunk the country. We'll be paying their bills for many, many, many generations

Despite that, they like to pretend that the proper comparison is not between Democrat and Republican results, but between Democrat results and imaginary perfection. And they get away with that by doing nothing so there are no real alternatives to compare to.

And the minions lap it up like mothers milk.

How does it feel to be the USMB member with the lowest reputation?

Great. Every neg rep is an accomplishment. A truth revealed and confronted.

I have no intention ever of playing nice to the enemies of my country.

The sad truth is though, [MENTION=43872]PMZ[/MENTION] considers the Constitution, freedom, and Americans "enemies".

He considers European socialism, control, and propaganda "allies".

 

[P@triot]

Great. Every neg rep is an accomplishment. A truth revealed and confronted.

I have no intention ever of playing nice to the enemies of my country.

YOU are the enemy of this contry and what it stands for PMZ. This country was NOT created so that some could obligate others to their needs. That is exactly what Obamacare does. It makes the young, healthy and middle class responsible for the health care costs of the sick and poor.

"This country was NOT created so that some could obligate others to their needs."

BTW, I agree with this.

That's why for everyone who's able to, paying for their own health care, is so important. Perhaps some day business will go back to liberal growth and have an adequate job for everyone. Then we can all be completely on our own rather than needing help. But until then we can require personal responsibility for health care from those who can.

And this goes right back to the first question I asked when you joined this thread - why do you refuse to create the very jobs you demand from others?!?

(Answer: because you're a greedy, lazy, asshole and a parasite - you never create, only consume and demand)

 

[P@triot]

YOU are the enemy of this contry and what it stands for PMZ. This country was NOT created so that some could obligate others to their needs. That is exactly what Obamacare does. It makes the young, healthy and middle class responsible for the health care costs of the sick and poor.

"This country was NOT created so that some could obligate others to their needs."

BTW, I agree with this.

That's why for everyone who's able to, paying for their own health care, is so important. Perhaps some day business will go back to liberal growth and have an adequate job for everyone. Then we can all be completely on our own rather than needing help. But until then we can require personal responsibility for health care from those who can.

Except Obamacare doesn't do that. It make OTHER people responsible for someone who chooses not to take responsibility for themselves. You're refering to the individual mandate as making people take responsibility. The typical rebuttal to this is either, that's what people were doing before the mandate. We were still paying for those that couldn't. That begs the question why is this way of other people paying better than the old way of other people pay for people? The other rebuttal is, do we just let people die on the streets. The answer to that is, YES!. You make taking repsonsibility for yourself a necessity, not by making it law, but requiring it for survival. Coupled with that you make policy that actually reduces the cost of what health care services cost, instead of the stupid Obamacare solution, 'let's just get everyone covered by insurance and that will fix everything'. Clearly that isn't the case. It has had one positive impact: It has reduced the cost of insurance for those that couldn't afford it. Unfortunately that was to the detriment of almost everyone else and every other component of the system. And the right hates to say I told you so, but we told you so. Of course the costs for the sick and poor would go down. We knew that because the mechanism was there. We also knew what the reaction of the insurance industry was going to be as a result of those mechanisms. Costs for the middle class and healthy go up. Low and behold that's EXACTLY what happened. The only reason it happened anyway was because Obama had to lie. He couldn't just say 'My goal is to subsidize the health care costs elderly, sick and poor. To do that I'm going to have to put in some mechanisms that will raise the cost insurance and health care for everyone else.' Obviously Obamacare would have never passed if Obama was honest about it up front.

 

[P@triot]

It's a long way from a full solution. But covering those that we choose not to pay enough to access cost and cure effective health care should give us a big boost on the results side of the ledger.

Maybe if and when the GOP becomes relevant enough again to win some elections, they will lead the cost saving solutions.

Do you think that's possible?

How's your private insurance plan working for you? Why aren't you choosing the "public option?"

I shop on Medicare.gov and take the best deal. I would think everyone would.

I also don't believe for a second that private insurance would voluntarily offer what Medicare requires them to.

I don't think that I've run into any dissatisfaction with Medicare except for young people who've fallen for Republican propaganda that it won't be there for them.

I did however have to fend off a private company who signed me up without my permission. It's a good thing that Medicare has rules against such shenanigans as people who aren't able to keep track of things could really get screwed by such crooks.

[ame=http://youtu.be/5XyK5dYNI_s]FLASHBACK 2010: President Obama Agrees with Rep Paul Ryan on Medicare Reform. - YouTube[/ame]

Barack Obama: "Medicare - massive problem down the road - that's what our children need to worry about" (0:49 into the video).

Indisputable proof that @PMZ is the biggest ***** and dumbest ****'n moron on USMB!!!!!

 

[P@triot]

You are again ignorant about that which you support. Medicare Advantage plans were created specifically to provide a private alternative to Original Medicare. Sure there are rules, just like any other business.

Glad to see you prefer the private sector for yourself. I wish you'd just let others have the same choice.

People under 65 (except military) have no choice but the private sector for insurance.

The government pays private insurance companies about a 15% premium for offering Medicare Advantage plans, over what I currently pay into Medicare, because they take over administration costs.

Private companies share that 15% with policy holders in terms of some minor increased benefits.

More ignorance from you.

First, a history of Medicare Advantage.

An Economic History of Medicare Part C

Second, the policy holders receive all of their Medicare-covered healthcare from providers that are paid by the plan, not just some minor increased benefits:

What Medicare health plans cover | Medicare.gov

Third, here is a detailed explanation of revenue received by Medicare Advantage Plans (way way over and above 15% of the $104.90 you pay for Part B).

http://www.medpac.gov/documents/MedPAC_Payment_Basics_07_MA.pdf

http://www.cms.gov/Medicare/Health-Plans/MedicareAdvtgSpecRateStats/downloads/Advance2014.pdf

It averages about $830 plus incentives and adjustments.

How much will Medicare pay Medicare Advantage Plans in 2013?

Get ready [MENTION=24388]asterism[/MENTION] - any time somebody smacks [MENTION=43872]PMZ[/MENTION] upside is stupid ****'n head with facts (like you just did), he freaks out and yells "Fox! Fox! Fox!" like someone suffering from Tourette's...

 

[P@triot]

I said that I believe that health care is a right. If business chooses to provide for that, that's great.

First of all, you don't get to believe what is a right. Rights are spelled out in the U.S. Constitution. If you and you're left-wing loons want healthcare to be a right, then properly and legally amend the U.S. Constitution.

In fact that was the direction that the country was going until business decided to create unemployment to reduce labor costs. They dropped the ball.

Actually, the Dumbocrats decided to create unemployment when they taxed, regulated, and unionized companies out of business or overseas. If a business can't make money, they can't stay in business. It's a basic, fundamental reality that the average Dumbocrat is too dumb to comprehend.

The only one left standing is government. I hope that you're happy with that when it comes.

Exactly. Dumbocrats collapsed the free market (and in the process, America) so that "the only one left standing is government". It's a sad reality.

Tell me this though. Who benefits from a country with sub-optimal health. Companies? Families? Communities? Schools? The wealthy? The poor? Who?

No one. Which begs the question: why did Dumbicrats insist on destroying the greatest healthcare system in the world so that they could create a country with sub-optimal health? (Hint: we already covered the answer above)

 

[PMZ]

No I really don't. Because in this country's political climate and the 'goodies' hole that politicians have dug themselves over the years, no politician can afford to take anything away from anyone.

Now you can say some solution isn't true. And we're actually seeing that now. This Obamacare solution is making the healthcare costs of millions of Americans go up significantly. And it isn't actually reducing the cost of health care either. That some people have to pay less for it because they're being subsidized is not the same thing as reducing the cost of health care.

The cost of health care has changed as it does every year.

The insurance to cover those costs has changed for many reasons.

I don't see how it's possible, when things stabilize, for there not to be a reduction in two significant costs.

Medical bankruptcies because ACA requires coverage for the main causes of them.

And emergency room care for non emergencies.

The only cost increase possibility is from subsidies which I agree with as I believe that health is as close to a right as one can get.

Others are welcome to other opinions but I feel if we are going to pay full time workers inadequate wages we have to make it up somehow.

If you look at the economic mechanisms in place, you should be asking yourself why wouldn't prices go up? Not whether they'll go down. There are two fundamental aspects of the law that drive the cost of premiums up? The new coverage mandates telling insurance companies what they must cover. With added value comes added cost. Simple as that. The second part is the mandate on how insurance companies must perform their community ratings. No longer can they formulate this based on risk. The law requires them to take all of the people with the same plan in a given area and average out the cost of the premium for that plan. Obviously when averaged against the cost of sick people the premium costs of healthy people are going to go up. Next the pre-existing condition and no cancellation mandate. Insurance companies can't deny on that basis nor can they drop you if you get sick. While that might seem the right and compassionate thing to do, the reality is inescapable that it means now insurance companies have to actually pay for sick people. An expense for them that will go up meaning premium rates have to go up to cover it.

So you all of these drivers in the law that make costs go up. With none that make them come down. Obama needs young, healthy people to sign up before he has a mutiny on his hands and gets exposed for lie number two. Not only did he tell is if you liked your plan you could keep your plan, we were told the whoel point was to make health care cost less. When you have all of these drivers that cause prices to go up what exactly is going to counteract that enough to make them come down? Forget about premium prices coming down. He needs enough young healthy people to sign up just to back to break even from the damage all of those other mandates have caused.

Keep in mind that ACA effects only two aspects of health care.

It moves poor people from expensive, ineffective emergency room care to mainstream PCPs.

It reduces medical bankruptcies by requiring that insurance cover the conditions that typically cause them.

So health care insurance may go up from that coverage but it's offset by the cost of the bankruptcies. Different accounts, perhaps accrued to different people, but savings nonetheless.

Insurance is designed to cover those costs plus some administration fees.

So where do health insurance premium increases come from?

No more health care is being practiced. The only change is that it's being done more cost effectively by mainstream PCPs. And there are fewer medical bankruptcies causing uncollectable medical bills.

You are assuming that insurance companies charge whatever they want to, not what they anticipate paying out, plus administration.

 

[PMZ]

More ignorance from you.

First, a history of Medicare Advantage.

An Economic History of Medicare Part C

Second, the policy holders receive all of their Medicare-covered healthcare from providers that are paid by the plan, not just some minor increased benefits:

What Medicare health plans cover | Medicare.gov

Third, here is a detailed explanation of revenue received by Medicare Advantage Plans (way way over and above 15% of the $104.90 you pay for Part B).

http://www.medpac.gov/documents/MedPAC_Payment_Basics_07_MA.pdf

http://www.cms.gov/Medicare/Health-Plans/MedicareAdvtgSpecRateStats/downloads/Advance2014.pdf

It averages about $830 plus incentives and adjustments.

How much will Medicare pay Medicare Advantage Plans in 2013?

It depends completely on the county and the experience with regular Medicare covered recipients in that County. Just like all private insurance does.

Florida and California counties are the most advantageous for Advantage plans. Many counties offer no advantage.

It's a complicated formula but one that all parties, the insured, Medicare, and private insurers benefit from. Otherwise it wouldn't exist.

Correct.

It's a private alternative to the federal program and the average payment is around $830 per month per beneficiary.

I'd link to my federal exams on Medicare for you but that's not allowed.

Why would Medicare allow Advantage programs if they were not saving money by allowing that alternative?

 

[PMZ]

Original Medicare with the $1216 deductible, 20% co-insurance, and no out of pocket maximum.

I don't know what original Medicare is.

I do know that many more people choose Medicare over Medicare Advantage. Some use private Medicare Supplemental Insurance and Medicare.

Well at least you admit that you're ignorant and uneducated on this topic so that's a start.

Perhaps you should argue from a position of informed knowledge instead of just making things up.

You conclude this because you make up a term and others don't know what you mean?

Very bizarre.

 

[PMZ]

I have no intention ever of playing nice to the enemies of my country.

In light of the comment quoted ...

Did you know that masturbation as a form of self abuse is a sign of PTSD or Childhood Sexual Abuse?
Where it may be none of my business that you have no intention of playing nicely with yourself ... Please seek immediate help.

.

Wierd post of the day completely disconnected from any topic posted here.

 

[PMZ]

YOU are the enemy of this contry and what it stands for PMZ. This country was NOT created so that some could obligate others to their needs. That is exactly what Obamacare does. It makes the young, healthy and middle class responsible for the health care costs of the sick and poor.

"This country was NOT created so that some could obligate others to their needs."

BTW, I agree with this.

That's why for everyone who's able to, paying for their own health care, is so important. Perhaps some day business will go back to liberal growth and have an adequate job for everyone. Then we can all be completely on our own rather than needing help. But until then we can require personal responsibility for health care from those who can.

And this goes right back to the first question I asked when you joined this thread - why do you refuse to create the very jobs you demand from others?!?

(Answer: because you're a greedy, lazy, asshole and a parasite - you never create, only consume and demand)

Why don't you?

Because you're a greedy, lazy, asshole and a parasite - you never create, only consume and demand?

 

[Listening]

I have no intention ever of playing nice to the enemies of my country.

In light of the comment quoted ...

Did you know that masturbation as a form of self abuse is a sign of PTSD or Childhood Sexual Abuse?
Where it may be none of my business that you have no intention of playing nicely with yourself ... Please seek immediate help.

.

Wierd post of the day completely disconnected from any topic posted here.

You should have no problem understanding it then.

I am sure there is clinic you can contact for help.

Just don't use sandpaper.

 

[Listening]

"This country was NOT created so that some could obligate others to their needs."

BTW, I agree with this.

That's why for everyone who's able to, paying for their own health care, is so important. Perhaps some day business will go back to liberal growth and have an adequate job for everyone. Then we can all be completely on our own rather than needing help. But until then we can require personal responsibility for health care from those who can.

And this goes right back to the first question I asked when you joined this thread - why do you refuse to create the very jobs you demand from others?!?

(Answer: because you're a greedy, lazy, asshole and a parasite - you never create, only consume and demand)

Why don't you?

Because you're a greedy, lazy, asshole and a parasite - you never create, only consume and demand?

2nd grader bullshit.

You are one sad asswipe.

 

[PMZ]

In light of the comment quoted ...

Did you know that masturbation as a form of self abuse is a sign of PTSD or Childhood Sexual Abuse?
Where it may be none of my business that you have no intention of playing nicely with yourself ... Please seek immediate help.

.

Wierd post of the day completely disconnected from any topic posted here.

You should have no problem understanding it then.

I am sure there is clinic you can contact for help.

Just don't use sandpaper.

The next time that you have nothing to say, try saying nothing.

 

[PMZ]

And this goes right back to the first question I asked when you joined this thread - why do you refuse to create the very jobs you demand from others?!?

(Answer: because you're a greedy, lazy, asshole and a parasite - you never create, only consume and demand)

Why don't you?

Because you're a greedy, lazy, asshole and a parasite - you never create, only consume and demand?

2nd grader bullshit.

You are one sad asswipe.

As compared to this example of advanced cognition that epitomizes the intellectual basis of conservatism.

 

[P@triot]

"This country was NOT created so that some could obligate others to their needs."

BTW, I agree with this.

That's why for everyone who's able to, paying for their own health care, is so important. Perhaps some day business will go back to liberal growth and have an adequate job for everyone. Then we can all be completely on our own rather than needing help. But until then we can require personal responsibility for health care from those who can.

And this goes right back to the first question I asked when you joined this thread - why do you refuse to create the very jobs you demand from others?!?

(Answer: because you're a greedy, lazy, asshole and a parasite - you never create, only consume and demand)

Why don't you?

Because you're a greedy, lazy, asshole and a parasite - you never create, only consume and demand?

I'm not the one demanding "adequate jobs for everyone". Only an asshole (you) demands of others what you yourself are not willing to do.

If you want something done, you do it. You're the one who wants "adequate jobs for everyone", so you provide those "adequate jobs".

But like all Dumbocrats, you're too lazy to do what you want done. You want to demand others do it for you.

 

[P@triot]

How's your private insurance plan working for you? Why aren't you choosing the "public option?"

I shop on Medicare.gov and take the best deal. I would think everyone would.

I also don't believe for a second that private insurance would voluntarily offer what Medicare requires them to.

I don't think that I've run into any dissatisfaction with Medicare except for young people who've fallen for Republican propaganda that it won't be there for them.

I did however have to fend off a private company who signed me up without my permission. It's a good thing that Medicare has rules against such shenanigans as people who aren't able to keep track of things could really get screwed by such crooks.

[ame=http://youtu.be/5XyK5dYNI_s]FLASHBACK 2010: President Obama Agrees with Rep Paul Ryan on Medicare Reform. - YouTube[/ame]

Barack Obama: "Medicare - massive problem down the road - that's what our children need to worry about" (0:49 into the video).

Indisputable proof that @PMZ is the biggest ***** and dumbest ****'n moron on USMB!!!!!

Hey @PMZ - I noticed you didn't address this post....