The Gettysburg Address: What The Fuck?

DGS49

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2012
15,863
13,401
2,415
Pittsburgh
The Gettysburg Address is sometimes spoken of as the greatest 272 political words ever uttered in the United States. I actually had to memorize it in the sixth grade, and we repeated it, aloud, with some regularity throughout that school year.

But when you actually look at the text, its meaning is not entirely clear, it is grossly partisan, and it significantly misrepresents not only the battle(s) of Gettysburg, but the Civil War itself. This becomes obvious when you read it and try to paraphrase what you are reading.

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Here's what he's saying: 87 years ago the Founding Fathers created a nation that was dedicated to the proposition that "all men are created equal."

This is balderdash. The founders created a nation in which slavery was perfectly legal and Constitutional. Clearly, to the founders, all men were NOT created equal; some were mere chattels. Surely there were some among the Founders who were uncomfortable with slavery, but they lost the debate. Uncle George actually traveled with his slaves when he was acting as Commanding General.

The civil war was not a fight over the aforementioned principle. In fact, the States in rebellion sought to RETAIN the concept adopted by the Founders when faced with the threat by the Union to CHANGE the basic principles that prevailed in the beginning (87 years ago), which threat was purportedly made real by the Emancipation Proclamation - a totally unconstitutional and preposterous edict that had no force of law or Constitution - it was a legal and Constitutional nullity.

Those soldiers - on both sides - would have been shocked to learn that they fought and died on the principle of "all men being created equal." A tiny fraction of the Confederates owned slaves, and a similar fraction of the Union soldiers thought themselves fighting to advance the "equality" of slaves.

And what does any of this have to do with Government "of the people, by the people, and for the people"? The Confederates couldn't have cared less how the Union government operated, and from all indications, the Confederacy would have operated pretty much the same way. The war was over both slavery and the power of states to secede, for which there is no prohibition in the Constitution. Indeed, all of the States joined the Union voluntarily; why couldn't they leave voluntarily?

Many people believe that Jefferson Davis was never tried for treason because the Feds feared that the Federal courts might ultimately conclude that the States in rebellion had the Constitutional right to secede.

The Gettysburg Address sounds great, but it makes no sense.
 
I don't see whats partisan here, unless you really just hate America. When you plant an apple tree, do you expect apples in the first year? no of course not but it's still an apple tree. You know what kind of tree you get by the fruit,
even if it's a few years later.

We got rid of slavery for a reason. that reason partly being that having slavery doesnt live up to those ideals of the constitution. The country has always been a work in progress and it has been for some time a place where freedom and opportunity is the reason so many people want to come here.
No one hates America as much as American born leftists, except for maybe religious zealots of various factions around the world and the leadership of a few countries like Iran, China, North Korea etc..
 
"Gettysburg Address", is the best speech ever written.

Contrast it to trump's best


'We won this election, and we won it by a landslide'​


'We will stop the steal'​


'We will never give up. We will never concede. It doesn't happen'​


'If you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore'​


'We are going to the Capitol'​

 
"Gettysburg Address", is the best speech ever written.

Contrast it to trump's best


'We won this election, and we won it by a landslide'​


'We will stop the steal'​


'We will never give up. We will never concede. It doesn't happen'​


'If you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore'​


'We are going to the Capitol'​


You forgot MAGA!
 
The Gettysburg Address is sometimes spoken of as the greatest 272 political words ever uttered in the United States. I actually had to memorize it in the sixth grade, and we repeated it, aloud, with some regularity throughout that school year.

But when you actually look at the text, its meaning is not entirely clear, it is grossly partisan, and it significantly misrepresents not only the battle(s) of Gettysburg, but the Civil War itself. This becomes obvious when you read it and try to paraphrase what you are reading.

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Here's what he's saying: 87 years ago the Founding Fathers created a nation that was dedicated to the proposition that "all men are created equal."

This is balderdash. The founders created a nation in which slavery was perfectly legal and Constitutional. Clearly, to the founders, all men were NOT created equal; some were mere chattels. Surely there were some among the Founders who were uncomfortable with slavery, but they lost the debate. Uncle George actually traveled with his slaves when he was acting as Commanding General.

The civil war was not a fight over the aforementioned principle. In fact, the States in rebellion sought to RETAIN the concept adopted by the Founders when faced with the threat by the Union to CHANGE the basic principles that prevailed in the beginning (87 years ago), which threat was purportedly made real by the Emancipation Proclamation - a totally unconstitutional and preposterous edict that had no force of law or Constitution - it was a legal and Constitutional nullity.

Those soldiers - on both sides - would have been shocked to learn that they fought and died on the principle of "all men being created equal." A tiny fraction of the Confederates owned slaves, and a similar fraction of the Union soldiers thought themselves fighting to advance the "equality" of slaves.

And what does any of this have to do with Government "of the people, by the people, and for the people"? The Confederates couldn't have cared less how the Union government operated, and from all indications, the Confederacy would have operated pretty much the same way. The war was over both slavery and the power of states to secede, for which there is no prohibition in the Constitution. Indeed, all of the States joined the Union voluntarily; why couldn't they leave voluntarily?

Many people believe that Jefferson Davis was never tried for treason because the Feds feared that the Federal courts might ultimately conclude that the States in rebellion had the Constitutional right to secede.

The Gettysburg Address sounds great, but it makes no sense.

It's propaganda. It's designed to make people think their nation is something it isn't. The US is full of such propaganda.
 
It makes plenty of sense you just don't like what he said. The southern land-owning traitors who started a stupid war didn't like what he said either.

Where'd you get that revisionist version from, Colliers Encyclopedia for Idiots? Constitutional scholars agree that any state has the RIGHT to secede, I mean, our whole country is BASED upon establishing OUR right to secede from England!

When the South chose to secede, had they been left go, they would have undoubtedly resolved their forced labor slavery issues within another couple of decades, instead, the North chose to go to war because they feared losing all that land and resources, and so hundreds of thousands of people died a senseless war.
 
The Gettysburg Address is sometimes spoken of as the greatest 272 political words ever uttered in the United States. I actually had to memorize it in the sixth grade, and we repeated it, aloud, with some regularity throughout that school year.

But when you actually look at the text, its meaning is not entirely clear, it is grossly partisan, and it significantly misrepresents not only the battle(s) of Gettysburg, but the Civil War itself. This becomes obvious when you read it and try to paraphrase what you are reading.

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Here's what he's saying: 87 years ago the Founding Fathers created a nation that was dedicated to the proposition that "all men are created equal."

This is balderdash. The founders created a nation in which slavery was perfectly legal and Constitutional. Clearly, to the founders, all men were NOT created equal; some were mere chattels. Surely there were some among the Founders who were uncomfortable with slavery, but they lost the debate. Uncle George actually traveled with his slaves when he was acting as Commanding General.

The civil war was not a fight over the aforementioned principle. In fact, the States in rebellion sought to RETAIN the concept adopted by the Founders when faced with the threat by the Union to CHANGE the basic principles that prevailed in the beginning (87 years ago), which threat was purportedly made real by the Emancipation Proclamation - a totally unconstitutional and preposterous edict that had no force of law or Constitution - it was a legal and Constitutional nullity.

Those soldiers - on both sides - would have been shocked to learn that they fought and died on the principle of "all men being created equal." A tiny fraction of the Confederates owned slaves, and a similar fraction of the Union soldiers thought themselves fighting to advance the "equality" of slaves.

And what does any of this have to do with Government "of the people, by the people, and for the people"? The Confederates couldn't have cared less how the Union government operated, and from all indications, the Confederacy would have operated pretty much the same way. The war was over both slavery and the power of states to secede, for which there is no prohibition in the Constitution. Indeed, all of the States joined the Union voluntarily; why couldn't they leave voluntarily?

Many people believe that Jefferson Davis was never tried for treason because the Feds feared that the Federal courts might ultimately conclude that the States in rebellion had the Constitutional right to secede.

The Gettysburg Address sounds great, but it makes no sense.
"Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure."

That's the key line. He wanted to prove that the vision of the founders could last for at least longer than 72 years. For whatever that's worth.

And it was definitely fought over slavery. It was specifically mentioned in the secession declarations of several of the states.
 
Where'd you get that revisionist version from, Colliers Encyclopedia for Idiots? Constitutional scholars agree that any state has the RIGHT to secede, I mean, our whole country is BASED upon establishing OUR right to secede from England!

When the South chose to secede, had they been left go, they would have undoubtedly resolved their forced labor slavery issues within another couple of decades, instead, the North chose to go to war because they feared losing all that land and resources, and so hundreds of thousands of people died a senseless war.
When the South chose to betray the union they had no intention of being peaceful neighbors. Had to be slapped down and kicked back to their place.
 
A government of the people, by the people and for the people shall not perish from this earth

Some of the wisest words ever spoken
 
Last edited:
When the South chose to betray the union
The South was not anyone's to keep or lose. There you go again thinking these states somehow served YOU.

they had no intention of being peaceful neighbors. Had to be slapped down and kicked back to their place.
You have no way of knowing that, you killed 1,500,000 kids doing so and left the country forever divided. Good job.
 
The South was not anyone's to keep or lose. There you go again thinking these states somehow served YOU.


You have no way of knowing that, you killed 1,500,000 kids doing so and left the country forever divided. Good job.
I was born almost exactly 100 years after the civil war ended. Why are you irrationally talking like I was running the thing? What the hell? My family was decimated by the civil war because they believed they would receive their very own land and slaves for fighting. After it was over they were back sharecropping someone else's land and no thanks. They called it the rich man's war and knew they had been hoodwinked.
 
I was born almost exactly 100 years after the civil war ended. Why are you irrationally talking like I was running the thing? What the hell? My family was decimated by the civil war because they believed they would receive their very own land and slaves for fighting. After it was over they were back sharecropping someone else's land and no thanks. They called it the rich man's war and knew they had been hoodwinked.

What has any of that to do with your original complaint that the South owed it to the North not to secede? (nothing)

Who was the North to tell other states what to do with their own sovereign land? (no one)
 
"Gettysburg Address", is the best speech ever written.

Contrast it to trump's best


'We won this election, and we won it by a landslide'​


'We will stop the steal'​


'We will never give up. We will never concede. It doesn't happen'​


'If you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore'​


'We are going to the Capitol'​




Come on man, compared to Biden, Trumps words read like a passage from Shakespeare

 
The Gettysburg Address is sometimes spoken of as the greatest 272 political words ever uttered in the United States. I actually had to memorize it in the sixth grade, and we repeated it, aloud, with some regularity throughout that school year.

But when you actually look at the text, its meaning is not entirely clear, it is grossly partisan, and it significantly misrepresents not only the battle(s) of Gettysburg, but the Civil War itself. This becomes obvious when you read it and try to paraphrase what you are reading.

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Here's what he's saying: 87 years ago the Founding Fathers created a nation that was dedicated to the proposition that "all men are created equal."

This is balderdash. The founders created a nation in which slavery was perfectly legal and Constitutional. Clearly, to the founders, all men were NOT created equal; some were mere chattels. Surely there were some among the Founders who were uncomfortable with slavery, but they lost the debate. Uncle George actually traveled with his slaves when he was acting as Commanding General.

The civil war was not a fight over the aforementioned principle. In fact, the States in rebellion sought to RETAIN the concept adopted by the Founders when faced with the threat by the Union to CHANGE the basic principles that prevailed in the beginning (87 years ago), which threat was purportedly made real by the Emancipation Proclamation - a totally unconstitutional and preposterous edict that had no force of law or Constitution - it was a legal and Constitutional nullity.

Those soldiers - on both sides - would have been shocked to learn that they fought and died on the principle of "all men being created equal." A tiny fraction of the Confederates owned slaves, and a similar fraction of the Union soldiers thought themselves fighting to advance the "equality" of slaves.

And what does any of this have to do with Government "of the people, by the people, and for the people"? The Confederates couldn't have cared less how the Union government operated, and from all indications, the Confederacy would have operated pretty much the same way. The war was over both slavery and the power of states to secede, for which there is no prohibition in the Constitution. Indeed, all of the States joined the Union voluntarily; why couldn't they leave voluntarily?

Many people believe that Jefferson Davis was never tried for treason because the Feds feared that the Federal courts might ultimately conclude that the States in rebellion had the Constitutional right to secede.

The Gettysburg Address sounds great, but it makes no sense.
On July 4, 1776, when the Continental Congress adopted the historic text drafted by Thomas Jefferson, they did not intend it to mean individual equality. Rather, what they declared was that American colonists, as a people, had the same rights to self-government as other nations. Because they possessed this fundamental right, Rakove said, they could establish new governments within each of the states and collectively assume their “separate and equal station” with other nations. It was only in the decades after the American Revolutionary War that the phrase acquired its compelling reputation as a statement of individual equality.

It is true that slavery existed at this time yet the old can't be throw off as easily as the new is accepted.
 
Come on man, compared to Biden, Trumps words read like a passage from Shakespeare


Are you still sipping Lysol? Do you really think that George Washington controlled the airports at valley Forge? Do you still have your head up Trump`s fat ass?
 
The Civil War was NOT fought to determine whether a country in which "all men are created equal" could endure. There was nothing stopping either the Union or the states in rebellion from continuing as they had before.

The speech is nonsense. The war was fought to prevent the South from seceding...to deny that secession had any force or validity. Slavery was the underlying issue, and it was on its figurative deathbed one way or another. The Thirteenth Amendment was passed to figuratively poke the Confederates in the eye. "We won, and now fuck you all."
 
The Gettysburg Address is sometimes spoken of as the greatest 272 political words ever uttered in the United States. I actually had to memorize it in the sixth grade, and we repeated it, aloud, with some regularity throughout that school year.

But when you actually look at the text, its meaning is not entirely clear, it is grossly partisan, and it significantly misrepresents not only the battle(s) of Gettysburg, but the Civil War itself. This becomes obvious when you read it and try to paraphrase what you are reading.

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Here's what he's saying: 87 years ago the Founding Fathers created a nation that was dedicated to the proposition that "all men are created equal."

This is balderdash. The founders created a nation in which slavery was perfectly legal and Constitutional. Clearly, to the founders, all men were NOT created equal; some were mere chattels. Surely there were some among the Founders who were uncomfortable with slavery, but they lost the debate. Uncle George actually traveled with his slaves when he was acting as Commanding General.

The civil war was not a fight over the aforementioned principle. In fact, the States in rebellion sought to RETAIN the concept adopted by the Founders when faced with the threat by the Union to CHANGE the basic principles that prevailed in the beginning (87 years ago), which threat was purportedly made real by the Emancipation Proclamation - a totally unconstitutional and preposterous edict that had no force of law or Constitution - it was a legal and Constitutional nullity.

Those soldiers - on both sides - would have been shocked to learn that they fought and died on the principle of "all men being created equal." A tiny fraction of the Confederates owned slaves, and a similar fraction of the Union soldiers thought themselves fighting to advance the "equality" of slaves.

And what does any of this have to do with Government "of the people, by the people, and for the people"? The Confederates couldn't have cared less how the Union government operated, and from all indications, the Confederacy would have operated pretty much the same way. The war was over both slavery and the power of states to secede, for which there is no prohibition in the Constitution. Indeed, all of the States joined the Union voluntarily; why couldn't they leave voluntarily?

Many people believe that Jefferson Davis was never tried for treason because the Feds feared that the Federal courts might ultimately conclude that the States in rebellion had the Constitutional right to secede.

The Gettysburg Address sounds great, but it makes no sense.
“…that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.”

“These dead” of course refers to both those who fought to preserve the Union and those who fought to destroy it.

And although there were those who sought to destroy America, who engaged in lawless, treasonous rebellion against America, their deaths would likewise be in vain if the Union were not preserved.

The Address is a speech of reconciliation, a desire by Lincoln to heal the Nation as soon and as quickly as possible.
 
The Civil War was NOT fought to determine whether a country in which "all men are created equal" could endure. There was nothing stopping either the Union or the states in rebellion from continuing as they had before.

The speech is nonsense. The war was fought to prevent the South from seceding...to deny that secession had any force or validity. Slavery was the underlying issue, and it was on its figurative deathbed one way or another. The Thirteenth Amendment was passed to figuratively poke the Confederates in the eye. "We won, and now fuck you all."
They had no plans to let slavery die. Deathbed? No.
 
The Confederates bore no ill will against the Union. They simply did not want to be a part of it.

Slavery was doomed. The Industrial revolution would have made it unsustainable.
 

Forum List

Back
Top