The French healthcare system

[gcomeau]

The report says an ageing population and the high cost of advanced treatments will help push health spending past 9% of gross domestic product - one of the highest levels in the world.

For the love of all that is holy... have you recently suffered some kind of head trauma?

9%?!?! OH NO! Imagine if the US spent an entire 9% of it's GDP on health care!

Oh wait, the US has already broken 16%. As in the VERY highest level in the world. By a MASSIVE margin. Nobody else is even in the same league on how much money their health care system siphons off every year. Dropping that to 9% in the States would be a SAVINGS of about a Trillion (yes, with a 'T') freaking dollars a year. Please, scare me more with your horrifying tales of saving mind boggling sums of money.

Listen captain clueless, you are standing in a house that is burning down around your ears and bitching that the place people are suggesting you relocate to doesn't have air conditioning.

And FYI, that report you keep quoting is a little old... I can tell because of that 9% number.

 

[Oddball]

How 'bout suggesting some decent dive sites that aren't along the Barrier Reef, or some great paraglider/hang gliding sites and leave us to our politics, eh what??

I used to post on an Australian politics board. A couple of Americans used to post there as well. The resident Australians time and time again told them to **** off. I got sick and tired of the out and out rudeness all the time so I just bailed out. At least here the "**** off out of our politics" isn't happening all the time. Folks here are very tolerant in fact so when I get the odd one I don't let it phase me.

But I can understand the annoyance factor. I try not to abuse my welcome by steering clear of a lot of domestic political issues but I admit I fall in the mudholes occasionally (sometimes I think I get a shove in the back though). On issue like health care I don't see it as some others do, as a political issue, more an issue of public policy and since that interests me I feel pretty free to comment on it as such an issue. That some have made it a politically-charged subject isn't my doing and I try to not come at it from that position.

Diving sites. The tropical areas in Australia are basically north of the Tropic of Capricorn (okay, that was a duh!). So far northern Queensland, Northern Territory and Western Australia (the northern parts anyway) are okay for diving but you need to be very careful of stingers, box jellyfish, saltwater crocs (aka estuarine crocodiles) and other sorts of tropical biters and stingers. In the temperate areas which are further south there are some very good sites. Near where I am there is a former RAN destroyer sunk which is a haven for divers. Also in my state's gulf waters you can dive in cages where White Pointers hang out near Port Lincoln and in the south-east of my state there are sink holes which you can dive but you have to be trained and licensed to do so because of the danger.

I don't know much about para/hang gliding, there are some sites in New South Wales and Victoria's higher areas I think.

Thanks...and welcome.

 

[Contumacious]

The cost of healthcare rose IMMEDIATELY after medicaid / medicare went into effect. The federal government was willing to pay a lot more for a visit than the average patient could afford. You do the math. .

How about I read the chart instead? And by that I mean the chart of health care costs in the US going back to 1960 that I JUST POSTED.

Your chart supposedly depicts "National Health Spending" NOT "individual health spending,"' .

There is a book entitled : What Has Government Done To Our Healthcare" which shows the figures but it can not be access on line.

Show me the great big spike right around 1965 please. You know, when you say healthcare costs "rose IMMEDIATELY".

Are you blind, or do you just have severe short term memory issues? What effect did the massive infusion of federal funds had on the cost of health care?!?!?!?!!?

 

[gcomeau]

Your chart supposedly depicts "National Health Spending" NOT "individual health spending,"' .

Ok, that settles it. Definitely some kind of head trauma.

Let me explain something to you. National health spending is basically when you add up all the individual health spending in the nation into one big number. If you're arguing all the individuals in the nation started spending hugely more on health care even though the total amount spent on health care just kept moving along the same trend line it always was I'd love to hear what magic trick it is you think made that happen.

Are you blind, or do you just have severe short term memory issues? What effect did the massive infusion of federal funds had on the cost of health care?!?!?!?!!?

Almost none. See, I can read a chart. Now you try.

 

[Contumacious]

9%?!?! OH NO! Imagine if the US spent an entire 9% of it's GDP on health care! .

For the love of all that is holy... have you recently suffered some kind of head trauma? Listen captain clueless, the federal government has no constitutional authority to be in the health insurance business. Secondly , I am not a fascist or a socialist - you are ,whether you know what those terms mean or not.

 

[gcomeau]

For the love of all that is holy... have you recently suffered some kind of head trauma? Listen captain clueless, the federal government has no constitutional authority to be in the health insurance business. Secondly , I am not a fascist or a socialist - you are ,whether you know what those terms mean or not.

What the hell was that?

Your response to being whacked upside the head with comparative spending numbers between the US and France, a metric YOU were harping on, is to rant about constitutional authority of the US government to provide health insurance at all and to cry about you not being a socialist or fascist as if anyone was accusing you of being either one?

Seriously, go see a neurologist or something. Get a CAT scan. There's something very wrong in there.

 

[Contumacious]

Are you blind, or do you just have severe short term memory issues? What effect did the massive infusion of federal funds had on the cost of health care?!?!?!?!!?

Almost none. See, I can read a chart. Now you try.

What the hell was that?

ARe you ******* telling me that the massive medicare infusion of 1966 did not cause medical costs TO THOSE PATIENTS WITHOUT INSURANCE to go up dramatically?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?

Seriously, go see a neurologist or something. Get a CAT scan. There's something very wrong in there.

 

[Political Junky]

France: Smaller than Texas, does NOT have 15 MM Illegal Aliens, and then there's this:

"In response to rising malpractice premiums, France has moved to a Scandinavian compensation system (I'll explain why it's called "Scandinavian" whenever Ezra covers the Swedish health care system).

Under the French implementation of the Scandinavian system, wronged patients bring claims before their regions' government-appointed review board which is responsible for determining if compensation is in order and, if so, how much. For a patient to get paid, the board does not have to find the doctor at fault, or that medical negligence caused whatever pain and suffering the patient is experiencing. Money for patient relief comes from a national compensation fund, which presumably gets its cash either from a dedicated tax insurance premium placed on doctors and hospitals, or from general fund revenues. The closest analogy to this sort of system in the United States would be workers' compensation funds that many states run. The goal of such systems is not to find fault or establish causation as much as it is to provide a bit of compensation to workers who are injured on the job."

Medical Malpractice Policy: France

France has a population of over 61,500,000, Texas has a population of about 24,800,000. Not a fair comparison.

 

[gcomeau]

ARe you ******* telling me that the massive medicare infusion of 1966 did not cause medical costs TO THOSE PATIENTS WITHOUT INSURANCE to go up dramatically?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?

Can you or can you not read a simple chart? I'm not telling you that, reality is telling you that. I'm just passing along the message.

Cripes you're dense.

 

[Ame®icano]

Praising French healthcare is nothing but the grass-is-greener syndrome. Supporters of national health care, acknowledging the flaws in ObamaCare yet despising the current US system that has the best medicines, the best medical equipment and the shortest waiting lists, have turned their eyes lovingly to places like France.

Yes, French healthcare has its good side. But there is bad side too.

When you go to the doctor, you hardly have to pay anything out of pocket. Thats a good thing, right? Bad thing would be that French health care system has annual deficit of some $14 billion a year and someone is paying for it, taxpayers. On the top of 22% that is taken from gross income for French version of Social Security, France imposes an additional tax levy to cover the constant deficits that national health insurance runs. Additional tax levy is calculated annually. French public health care covers about 80% of people.

Someone mentioned that France has lower infanf mortality rate then US, and if you look at WHO data that is true. Official WHO statistics show the U.S. lagging behind France in infant mortality rates: 6.7 per 1,000 live births vs. 3.8 for France. Nobody clarified that in the US, any infant born that shows any sign of life for any length of time is considered a live birth. In France and in most of the European Union, any baby born before 26 weeks' gestation is not considered alive and therefore doesn't "count" in reported infant mortality rates.

I think that French advantage is not in health care system, but in different approach to medical care. They concentrate much more on preventive care. French doctors are more demanding, and French people in general are more judgmental to others, which is probably a reason why majority of French are skinny, fit, and bitchy.

In France, employers have to contribute far too much into the system. Over the years, this, combined with the harsh employment protection laws, has discourged employers from hiring, particularly on a permanent basis, and resulting in high unemployment (among the highest in Europe for the past thirty years).

At the end, France practically does not have illegal aliens. Those that are discovered are being deported without pitty. Illegals simply can't get a job.

 

[Contumacious]

When Medicare was first proposed back in 1966, it cost $3 billion per year, and the projection was for inflation-adjusted annual costs to rise to $12 billion by 1990. The actual cost in 1990 was $107 billion, and the 2009 estimate is a staggering $408 billion! So much for government estimates on health care.

 

[Oddball]

Praising French healthcare is nothing but the grass-is-greener syndrome. Supporters of national health care, acknowledging the flaws in ObamaCare yet despising the current US system that has the best medicines, the best medical equipment and the shortest waiting lists, have turned their eyes lovingly to places like France....

This is the reason that they deserve no better response than to be told to STFU and move to France.

 

[editec]

The cost of healthcare rose IMMEDIATELY after medicaid / medicare went into effect. The federal government was willing to pay a lot more for a visit than the average patient could afford. You do the math. .

How about I read the chart instead? And by that I mean the chart of health care costs in the US going back to 1960 that I JUST POSTED.

Show me the great big spike right around 1965 please. You know, when you say healthcare costs "rose IMMEDIATELY".

Are you blind, or do you just have severe short term memory issues? How did you think you were going to pull this off immediately after I had just finished posting that exact data?

All the empirical data in the world cannot penetrate the closed minds of those who are faith based, chum.

Denial is their superpower.

 

[Political Junky]

The cost of healthcare rose IMMEDIATELY after medicaid / medicare went into effect. The federal government was willing to pay a lot more for a visit than the average patient could afford. You do the math. .

How about I read the chart instead? And by that I mean the chart of health care costs in the US going back to 1960 that I JUST POSTED.

Show me the great big spike right around 1965 please. You know, when you say healthcare costs "rose IMMEDIATELY".

Are you blind, or do you just have severe short term memory issues? How did you think you were going to pull this off immediately after I had just finished posting that exact data?

All the empirical data in the world cannot penetrate the closed minds of those who are faith based, chum.

Denial is their superpower.

 

[Political Junky]

French healthcare is 'badly run'

France must make big changes to its health system in order to cut waste and increase efficiency, a government-commissioned report is warning.

The report says citizens must pay more and doctors must alter their behaviour.

Failure to do so could add 66 billion euros a year to France's public budget deficit by 2020, it adds

Ummm.... and?

Yes, the French have some cost issues to deal with. So do most other nations. But the US has the worst. And not by a little bit either, by a LOT. Trading the US cost problems for the French cost problems would be a giant improvement. Get it? Is this sinking in? Perhaps a couple visual aids?

See how the US is way off by itself on both of those? That's not because it's 'winning' or something. This getting through at all?

You are missing the point Vernon.

I do not favor the present system that we have in the US - I favor a free market system - meaning : NO government regulations and abolishing medicaid and medicare.


.

Good luck finding a member of congress who will back ending Medicare and Medicaid.

 

[Chris]

This our only chance to get a decent healthcare system.

I hope we can make it work.

 

[Contumacious]

Ummm.... and?

Yes, the French have some cost issues to deal with. So do most other nations. But the US has the worst. And not by a little bit either, by a LOT. Trading the US cost problems for the French cost problems would be a giant improvement. Get it? Is this sinking in? Perhaps a couple visual aids?

See how the US is way off by itself on both of those? That's not because it's 'winning' or something. This getting through at all?

You are missing the point Vernon.

I do not favor the present system that we have in the US - I favor a free market system - meaning : NO government regulations and abolishing medicaid and medicare.


.

Good luck finding a member of congress who will back ending Medicare and Medicaid.

The Hon Ron Paul, MD (R- Tx)



.

 

[Contumacious]

This our only chance to get a decent healthcare system.

I hope we can make it work.

Like Chief Running Bull used to say:

Whothefuckarewe?

 

[Chris]

This our only chance to get a decent healthcare system.

I hope we can make it work.

Like Chief Running Bull used to say:

Whothefuckarewe?

The people who oppose you.

 

[Contumacious]

This our only chance to get a decent healthcare system.

I hope we can make it work.

Like Chief Running Bull used to say:

Whothefuckarewe?

The people who oppose you.

The parasites?


.