The 'evil empire' is next door

[007]

Originally posted by Said1
I was gonna mention that, but I was distracted by Pale Riders rage

Sorry... I've been a little on edge with this whole mickey moore thing. I can actually say I "hate" the rotten bastard, and all the other posting about him had me in a minor rage.

 

[Said1]

Originally posted by Pale Rider
Sorry... I've been a little on edge with this whole mickey moore thing. I can actually say I "hate" the rotten bastard, and all the other posting about him had me in a minor rage.

Sure, we all love our countries. There are a lot of debates I stay out of simply because I live here, and really wouldn't know. I don't like to read generalizations, insults or bashing of my country any more than you do. You just have to remember who is doing the bashing, and in this case, it wasn't me

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by Hobbit
Typical. I once had to get an academic appeal because somebody who would've fit in with the "Black Panthers" graded my paper on how the Civil War was fought over unity, federal power, and economic strength, with slavery as more of a side issue. I got an F. After the appeal, I got it graded by a Ph.D. in Civil War history. I got an A. I've also gotten poor marks on papers written about media spin and pervasiveness, the increasingly out of control feminist and minority rights movements, and the injustice and implausibility of general Democratic economic policy. It's all bull.

I hear ya. I went through history degee, having already completed studies in pol. sci. and sociology. In US cannot teach with those on secondary level. So, history we go. First to bat, Democracy in America. I was the only one who read it before class started, first time in jr. in high school. 3 times since the class. I knew and could cite quotes. Teacher and I diametrically opposed, but I could defend my position. He gave me an A in all 5 classes I had with him.

 

[Isaac Brock]

I think people here are blowing the perceived anti-americanism out of proportion here in Canada. Many Canadians dislike or disagree the current administration, social policy or foreign policy. I count myself as one of them. This shouldn't come as a surprise since Canadian policies are, simply, different.

However, an American in Canada will hardly be lynched and most likely will be treated with upmost hospitality. To equate Canadian disapproval with US administration to the blind hatred seen in some countries in the middle east or otherwise, simply isn't true.

And for those detractors who believe Canada is a parasite to the US, one needs to look no further than who is the US's largest trading partner and who shares the longest undefended border. We need the US as much as the US needs Canada.

 

[Annie]

An American in Canada probably agrees with you Issac. I haven't heard a soul claim that Canadians hate Americans in general. Just irrational hatred of GW.

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by Kathianne
An American in Canada probably agrees with you Issac. I haven't heard a soul claim that Canadians hate Americans in general. Just irrational hatred of GW.

I certainly would hope so as I know the reverse (ie Canadian in the US) is true.

As for irrational hatred of GW? Well perhaps. Though bear in mind Canada, is a socially minded nation of pacifists and peacekeepers (for better or for worse) with a high penchant for democracy. I think you can understand that the means GW goes to promote his values is contrary to some fairly core Canadian ideals.

Whether he's right or not in his approach, there is very little support it in Canada. In addition, since the current administration came into office, US policies have negatively affected Canadian interests (BSE, softwood lumber, missle defence, immigration policy, environmental legislation). Plus, not since the days of LBJ and Trudeau have our nations been in such a political cooling. As such, you must understand that it is hard to sympathize with his administration, as a Canadian.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by Isaac Brock
I certainly would hope so as I know the reverse (ie Canadian in the US) is true.

As for irrational hatred of GW? Well perhaps. Though bear in mind Canada, is a socially minded nation of pacifists and peacekeepers (for better or for worse) with a high penchant for democracy. I think you can understand that the means GW goes to promote his values is contrary to some fairly core Canadian ideals.

Whether he's right or not in his approach, there is very little support it in Canada. In addition, since the current administration came into office, US policies have negatively affected Canadian interests (BSE, softwood lumber, missle defence, immigration policy, environmental legislation). Plus, not since the days of LBJ and Trudeau have our nations been in such a political cooling. As such, you must understand that it is hard to sympathize with his administration, as a Canadian.

I hear all you are saying and I think it sad. We may not be as environmentally sound as Canada, but you are lacking on immediate threats to both of us. France is one problem, Canada I am concerned about.

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by Kathianne
I hear all you are saying and I think it sad. We may not be as environmentally sound as Canada, but you are lacking on immediate threats to both of us. France is one problem, Canada I am concerned about.

Perhaps, but there is also a general disagreement between our countries on how to best go about dealing with these threats.

Agreeing on increased and co-operative security/intelligence collaboration as well as airport screening is one thing. Easily agreed to.

Agreeing on a doctrine of pre-emption and agressive foreign policy is another.

 

[Annie]

[posted by Issac

Agreeing on increased and co-operative security/intelligence collaboration as well as airport screening is one thing. Easily agreed to.

So what has Canada done about the open immigration/alien thing? How many from ME still coming in without vetting?

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by Kathianne
[posted by Issac

So what has Canada done about the open immigration/alien thing? How many from ME still coming in without vetting?

As per the new National Security Policy instituted in April of 2004 and the Anti-Terrorism Act of 2001 to a total of 7.7 billion:

- The integrated threat assessment centre in co-operation with the United States
- 300$M into marine security and institution of joint custom agents with US (ie US customs officers in Canadian ports)
- Overhaul of Canadian passport with increased security features
- Creation of CATSA an airline security division with the RCMP with non-uniformed air marshalls on flights
- CSIS nows does full security checks with host nations and US on all new immigrants to Canada
- 34 agencies with frozen terrorist assets including Hezbollah
- Increased funding of customs agencies with more spot checks

More can be found at:
http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/can-am/menu-en.asp?act=v&mid=1&cat=1&did=1684
and
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdnsecurity/securitypolicy.html

Of note, there has yet to have been a terrorist entering the US from Canada that has not been caught of Canadian officials before entering the US including Ahmed Rassm who plotted the bombing of LAX.

 

[Annie]

Issac, sounds like we're more together than apart. Now mind you, tomorrow I might go looking for more, but for now, we're buddies.

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Issac, sounds like we're more together than apart. Now mind you, tomorrow I might go looking for more, but for now, we're buddies.

Indeed we are! A lesson served well to both of our countries.

 

[Merlin1047]

Originally posted by Said1
Anti-Americanism is taught in the schools here. I can't speak for all schools, but there is a big anti-USA sentiment at the university I attend, which is not discouraged by professors or TAs. I also find the media here to be very anti-American, I can't speak for the whole country on that either.

That's a hoot.

The same thing is going on at many universities here in the US.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by Merlin1047
That's a hoot.

The same thing is going on at many universities here in the US.

No Shi*! To a degree that is unbelievable!

 

[Merlin1047]

Originally posted by Isaac Brock

As for irrational hatred of GW? Well perhaps. Though bear in mind Canada, is a socially minded nation of pacifists and peacekeepers (for better or for worse) with a high penchant for democracy. I think you can understand that the means GW goes to promote his values is contrary to some fairly core Canadian ideals.

Whether he's right or not in his approach, there is very little support it in Canada. In addition, since the current administration came into office, US policies have negatively affected Canadian interests (BSE, softwood lumber, missle defence, immigration policy, environmental legislation). Plus, not since the days of LBJ and Trudeau have our nations been in such a political cooling. As such, you must understand that it is hard to sympathize with his administration, as a Canadian.

I have to take issue with you on these statements.

First, seems to me that the "socially minded nation of pacifists and peacekeepers" needs to take a refresher lesson in history. It won't take long. You need look no further than Neville Chamberlain to see the fruits of such policies.

Second, had Canada been attacked by muslim idiots, Americans would most likely be helping you find and eliminate those responsible instead of engaging in whiney nit-picking about the methods used. Further, we would respect your right to do what is necessary to defend your country.

Finally, may I point out that it was, in fact, the USA who was attacked. That gives us the right to do whatever is necessary to assure it won't happen again. If that bothers the delicate sensibilities of some Canadians - tough shit.

 

[Merlin1047]

Originally posted by Kathianne
No Shi*! To a degree that is unbelievable!

LOL - did you intend that pun?

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by Merlin1047
LOL - did you intend that pun?

No, but at least it wasn't Freudian! :

 

[MrMarbles]

Originally posted by Merlin1047
I have to take issue with you on these statements.

First, seems to me that the "socially minded nation of pacifists and peacekeepers" needs to take a refresher lesson in history. It won't take long. You need look no further than Neville Chamberlain to see the fruits of such policies.

Second, had Canada been attacked by muslim idiots, Americans would most likely be helping you find and eliminate those responsible instead of engaging in whiney nit-picking about the methods used. Further, we would respect your right to do what is necessary to defend your country.

Finally, may I point out that it was, in fact, the USA who was attacked. That gives us the right to do whatever is necessary to assure it won't happen again. If that bothers the delicate sensibilities of some Canadians - tough shit.

Hind sight is 20:20. Appeasment didn't work. How was he to know? England, and definitley France were in no way ready for war. The people would not allow it. Standing up to Hitler, would have been a good thing. Invading a country that had nothing to do with attacking you, not such a good thing. That is were Canada, in general, disagrees with th US.

The biggest factor to the contributing rise in anti-americanism, (in my opinion, and on me personally,) is the fact we are told to do something we don't want to, and is not beneifical to us. Then when we refuse we're scolded like a child. In this case, the parent has alot to learn.

 

[insein]

Originally posted by MrMarbles
Hind sight is 20:20. Appeasment didn't work. How was he to know? England, and definitley France were in no way ready for war. The people would not allow it. Standing up to Hitler, would have been a good thing. Invading a country that had nothing to do with attacking you, not such a good thing. That is were Canada, in general, disagrees with th US.

The biggest factor to the contributing rise in anti-americanism, (in my opinion, and on me personally,) is the fact we are told to do something we don't want to, and is not beneifical to us. Then when we refuse we're scolded like a child. In this case, the parent has alot to learn.

The problem is in your line of thinking. You feel that Iraq and Afghanistan had nothing to do with North America when it clearly had ties to many terrorist organizations including Al Queda. The same orgs that have cells in the US and Canada. The same Cells that use Canada's lax immigration laws to sneak into the US and cause damage.

The child thinks they know best when the parent makes a decision that contradicts them. Quite often the Parent is right.

 

[Merlin1047]

Originally posted by MrMarbles
Hind sight is 20:20. Appeasment didn't work. How was he to know? England, and definitley France were in no way ready for war. The people would not allow it. Standing up to Hitler, would have been a good thing. Invading a country that had nothing to do with attacking you, not such a good thing. That is were Canada, in general, disagrees with th US.

The biggest factor to the contributing rise in anti-americanism, (in my opinion, and on me personally,) is the fact we are told to do something we don't want to, and is not beneifical to us. Then when we refuse we're scolded like a child. In this case, the parent has alot to learn.

Apparently hindsight is less than 20-20 in your case specifically and in the case of many Canadians as well as liberal idiots here in the US. If hindsight was as good as you claim, then why is it that SO MANY OF YOU LIBERALS ARE TOTALLY UNABLE TO LEARN ANYTHING FROM IT?????????

Regarding your claim that "we are told to do something we don't want to", I can't recall our government attempting to "tell" your's to do anything.

As far as your claim that we were "Invading a country that had nothing to do with attacking you" you are guilty once again of burying your head in the sand. Saddam attacked Kuwait. We kicked him out. I didn't hear you whining about that. He repeatedly violated the cease-fire agreement for TWELVE YEARS. That was more than sufficient justification to kick his ass. And while he may not have been directly responsible for the Sep 11 attacks, he certainly was a major sponsor of terrorism. If taking out Saddam serves no purpose other than as an object lesson for other muslim dictators, then it was worth it.

Here's a thought on terrorism for all you libs, Canadian or otherwise - if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. If you can't get up the guts to help fight the problem, at least do us the courtesy of getting the hell out of the way.