The Duke of Windser was a Nazi

[Mushroom]

Mein Kamf was written in 1925.

Yes, and?

 

[Votto]

Yes, and?

Reading it should tell you all you needed to know about Hitler.

Not that hard really.

 

[Mushroom]

Reading it should tell you all you needed to know about Hitler.

Yes, and?

I get it, you seem to believe anybody that does not outright condemn his at any time is a supporter.

 

[whitehall]

Lots of important people were infatuated with the Nazi regime prior to WW2. FDR was a relatively uninterested bystander to the rise of the Nazi regime. JFK's father was a Nazi sympathizer while serving as an ambassador in the U.K. prior to the war.

 

[Mushroom]

Lots of important people were infatuated with the Nazi regime prior to WW2. FDR was a relatively uninterested bystander to the rise of the Nazi regime. JFK's father was a Nazi sympathizer while serving as an ambassador in the U.K. prior to the war.

One thing I always caution people is to try and look back at a period of time and keep only what was known at that time, and the world situation at the time.

Into the 1930s, there were many variants of Socialism gaining traction. From the Internationalism of the USSR, to the various Nationalist variants (one could even argue that much of FDRs New Deal was a form of "National Socialism"). WWII, Kristallnacht, and most of the persecution of minorities like Jews and Romani were still years in the future. And even the earliest were no real different than most nations (including the US) were doing at the time.

And also, the NSDAP did not even control the country yet. It was still in the transition to a totalitarian state, and was a coalition government. But as the NSDAP helped unify the right wing and monarchists, the left was split between the KPD and SPD. And most tend to forget that the NSDAP was originally a monarchist party. Their earliest platforms wanted a return of the Kaiser, and a more modern Constitutional Monarchy more along the line of the UK.

So of course the Duke would have supported what seemed like a "Benign Socialist" movement that was not Internationalist, not promising to follow the USSR (which had murdered his cousins), and promised to put his cousin back on the throne.

One simply can not look at how people reacted to a government, country, or movement with 2022 eyes and knowledge in the 1930's. One has to examine say 1936 opinions and reactions entirely with 1936 eyes and knowledge. And knowing it was only after 1936 that the NSDAP started to "tighten the screws". That was the year of the Berlin Olympics, and they were trying really hard to put on a friendly public face, and show how nice they were. Not really unlike China in 2008 and 2022.

 

[Flopper]

I cannot understand why the Socialists want to distance themselves from the temporarily successful NATIONAL socialists. They are one and the same. At heart they are evil and disgusting; their core is hatred and violence.

Greg

The major reason is Socialism is a social and economic theory whereas Nazism is a political ideology. Nazism was a system of governance that believed in the superiority of the German race while trying to get rid of the Jews from the population. The reason why people confuse Nazism and socialism is because of the fact that the official name of the Nazi party of Germany contained the word Socialist.

Hitler was of the opinion that communists presented a distorted view of socialism. Where socialist believe in collective ownership of means of production, the Nazis had no problem with private ownership as long as owners were neither Jews nor communists but Nazis. By 1934, the trade unions had been abolished. Socialist and communist were being imprisoned and any remaining traces of socialist thought in the Nazi Party had been extinguished.

 

[Flopper]

Lots of important people were infatuated with the Nazi regime prior to WW2. FDR was a relatively uninterested bystander to the rise of the Nazi regime. JFK's father was a Nazi sympathizer while serving as an ambassador in the U.K. prior to the war.

Until the mid 30s the leadership in just about every nation on earth including the UK and US marveled at the accomplishments of Germany under Hitler. His admirers outside of Germany rapidly disappeared as it became clear that he planned to conquer all of Europe if not the whole world.

 

[surada]

I cannot understand why the Socialists want to distance themselves from the temporarily successful NATIONAL socialists. They are one and the same. At heart they are evil and disgusting; their core is hatred and violence.

Greg

Nope. Hitler split from the Socialists in 1926.

 

[surada]

Until the mid 30s the leadership in just about every nation on earth including the UK and US marveled at the accomplishments of Germany under Hitler. His admirers outside of Germany rapidly disappeared as it became clear that he planned to conquer all of Europe if not the whole world.

American Nazism and Madison Square Garden | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans

Before World War II, the German-American Bund was one of the most successful pro-Nazi organizations in the United States. On February 20, 1939, American Nazis gathered at Madison Square Garden for a mass rally for “true Americanism.”

www.nationalww2museum.org

 

[Flopper]

Lots of important people were infatuated with the Nazi regime prior to WW2. FDR was a relatively uninterested bystander to the rise of the Nazi regime. JFK's father was a Nazi sympathizer while serving as an ambassador in the U.K. prior to the war.

From what I have read, Joe Kennedy's went rogue acting against Roosevelt and met with top German officials attempting avoid war. At one point he tried buy off Hitler with promises neither the US or UK would keep. Roosevelt was furious but allowed him to remain ambassador to England. In the Battle for Briton, Kennedy was quoted in the London Times, that democracy was finished in England. He resigned before FDR could recalled him. I think the accusations that he was a German sympathizer came out of White House.

 

[DudleySmith]

lol It was Churchill who talked FDR into supporting Stalin in the first place, and it was Churchill who sent the first military aid to Stalin and saved Moscow. Sniveling about FDR while glorifying Churchill is just bizarre cognitive dissonance.

FDR was elected President 4 times, get over it; Republicans were mostly a hindrance and drag on the war effort throughout the whole era.

 

[surada]

American Nazism and Madison Square Garden | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans

Before World War II, the German-American Bund was one of the most successful pro-Nazi organizations in the United States. On February 20, 1939, American Nazis gathered at Madison Square Garden for a mass rally for “true Americanism.”

www.nationalww2museum.org

gtopa1

In 1926 Hitler split from the Socialists. In 1933 Hitler purged the German government of socialists, communists, Jews and Democrats. He killed them or put them in Dachau.

 

[fncceo]

in 1936 there was no hint of the disaster that would unfold.

Mein Kampf was published in 1926 .. in it, Hitler spells out, in great detail, precisely what he intends to do.

When Nazis came to power in 1933, one of their first orders of business was to create hundreds of anti-Jewish edicts, public book burnings, and political purges.

 

[surada]

Mein Kampf was published in 1926 .. in it, Hitler spells out, in great detail, precisely what he intends to do.

When Nazis came to power in 1933, one of their first orders of business was to create hundreds of anti-Jewish edicts, public book burnings, and political purges.

Seems so obvious in retrospect. Was it willful blindness? Denial? I have never understood.... Just like I don't understand the Trump cult at all.

 

[22lcidw]

America First....Christian Front.....Congressmen such as Rep. Hamilton Fish (R), Senator Gerald Nye (R), Sen Ernest Lundeen (R)

Woody Wilson and the then Progs helped to put Germany on the path they took after WW 1. Hitler was supported by the globalists at that time until he was not.

 

[DudleySmith]

Woody Wilson and the then Progs helped to put Germany on the path they took after WW 1. Hitler was supported by the globalists at that time until he was not.

The major industrialists and financial interests certainly were. Nazism was similar to Abraham Lincoln's economic policies, based on the old Whig Party's 'American system', which emphasized massive govt spending on corporate welfare and protectionism. Reagan was also a huge fan of that, despite all the BS he said in speeches.

 

[Mushroom]

Hitler was of the opinion that communists presented a distorted view of socialism. Where socialist believe in collective ownership of means of production

Even that is not correct, as you are actually describing Collectivism. And Socialism and Collectivism are not the same thing.

That is a major difference between Socialism and Marxism, and then into Communism. They are not all the same thing, and should never be mixed together.

Sounds like you have a distorted view of Socialism also, if you think it must include Collectivism.

And not just Hitler. Italy and China also rejected Collectivism, and all three were Socialist.

 

[Funzo Hoss]

Judging from the blood his asshole was tight-Gangsta Nip

 

[whitehall]

From what I have read, Joe Kennedy's went rogue acting against Roosevelt and met with top German officials attempting avoid war. At one point he tried buy off Hitler with promises neither the US or UK would keep. Roosevelt was furious but allowed him to remain ambassador to England. In the Battle for Briton, Kennedy was quoted in the London Times, that democracy was finished in England. He resigned before FDR could recalled him. I think the accusations that he was a German sympathizer came out of White House.

The media writes the history books and the media was a part of the FDR administration. Whether FDR was "furious" or not is debatable.. FDR was a slick politician and old Joe Kennedy might have been following his orders until things got out of hand.

 

[Pellinore]

Even that is not correct, as you are actually describing Collectivism. And Socialism and Collectivism are not the same thing.

That is a major difference between Socialism and Marxism, and then into Communism. They are not all the same thing, and should never be mixed together.

Sounds like you have a distorted view of Socialism also, if you think it must include Collectivism.

And not just Hitler. Italy and China also rejected Collectivism, and all three were Socialist.

It seems as if you misunderstand socialism. I've noticed in other posts that you mostly have a really good grasp of things, but I suspect that you may be using socialism when you mean authoritarianism, or anti-democracy.

We all know socialism means that the means of production are owned by the entire population equally, and that the products of that production are then granted to those who need them. Simple enough; every socialist has subscribed to that from Marx to Sanders, even if they disagreed on how to make it happen. Marx famously suggested Communism, a utopian fools'-errand pretending that the world could become one happy commune, so devoted to socialism that we would not need laws, government, or even money; in practice, it was a carrot for wannabe dictators to promise their peasants the world, but only line their own pockets. Again, we all know this.

Italy and Germany of that time, though, were not socialist, at all. They had both started their careers as socialists, but then they each left those parties and created their own, ditching the promise of equality (backbone of socialism) completely.

Mussolini first created the Fascists, then Hitler saw and liked that, so he made a similarly fascist (little-f) party tailored to appeal to Germans. He called these "National Socialists," essentially for marketing, but fascism is an extreme form of nationalism, and the *last* thing extreme nationalism has ever wanted was equality. Nationalism says that only TRUE members of their nation deserve the benefits of society, at the expense of everyone else.

Fascism (including Nazis) and Communism are both brutally authoritarian and anti-democratic, but only one of them is socialist. Think of them as the Klingons and Romulans if you like; both anti-Federation, but more than happy to strangle each other whenever they get the chance.