The dreaded gay-wedding-cake saga ends: bakers must pay 135 K

[Dragonlady]

Of course I'm right, it became a matter of public record.

Filing the complaint didn't make their names and addresses public. Someone would have had to know the court docket number and pulled the complaint to get this information. That's where the bakers obtained their names and addresses.

What made their names and addresses public was the bakers posting the information on Facebook and in various TV and newspaper interviews. This caused the couple to be harassed, stalked and threatened, and to nearly lose their foster children. Not only did the bakers refuse them service, which was illegal, but they publicized the complaint filed, which led to the couple, who were within their rights to complain, to be harassed and threatened. How very Christian of them.

Had they kept this information to themselves, they wouldn't be paying this fine. But then they couldnt' have been able to claim that they are "victims".

When you set out to do others harm, you often end up shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Of course I'm right, it became a matter of public record.

Filing the complaint didn't make their names and addresses public. Someone would have had to know the court docket number and pulled the complaint to get this information. That's where the bakers obtained their names and addresses.

What made their names and addresses public was the bakers posting the information on Facebook and in various TV and newspaper interviews. This caused the couple to be harassed, stalked and threatened, and to nearly lose their foster children. Not only did the bakers refuse them service, which was illegal, but they publicized the complaint filed, which led to the couple, who were within their rights to complain, to be harassed and threatened. How very Christian of them.

Had they kept this information to themselves, they wouldn't be paying this fine. But then they couldnt' have been able to claim that they are "victims".

When you set out to do others harm, you often end up shooting yourself in the foot.

Who gives a ****? The lesbos filed the complaint, they deserved what they got.

 

[Faun]

Did you read something other than what I did?

Bakers who refused to make lesbian wedding cake told to pay 135K by Monday -- or else Fox News

Two Christian bakers who refused to bake a cake for a lesbian wedding have been ordered to pay $135,000 in damages by July 13 or else the state of Oregon could place a lien on their home.
This is standard procedure. If you don't pay the fines, they put a lien on your property. Just like if you owed the IRS money, they would put a lien on your home.

Then they should pay the damned money. Not seeing a problem here, they raised twice that from bigots on line.

I would refuse. They should do what their religious convictions lead them to do.
Or perhaps they will pay the fine, and yet continue to practice their faith.

Regardless, that isn't the point. The point is they are in fact being threatened in losing their home. As much as you leftist claim to never try and punish people of faith, here is a clear example that you are.

Ok, prove they are at risk of losing their home. Oregon has strong protection for homeowners through homestead exemption against judgement Liens. The exemptions are limited to:

• Unpaid Taxes.
• Unpaid mortgage, trust deed or other loan arrangement used to purchase or refinance your property or improvements to your property.
• A mechanic’s lien or other obligation to pay because of improvements made to your property.
• Any lien to which you agree by accepting the property subject to codes, covenants and restrictions, deed restrictions or equitable servitudes.

HomesteadUs.com - FAQ - Questions About Your Homestead Declaration Form​

 

[IsaacNewton]

Apparently, a $135K fine isn't enough for the Special Snowflake Totalitarians.

Now the state is threatening to take away their home if they don't pay up. This is a preview of future state asset forfeitures for anyone who doesn't share the required Groupthink.


Fox News is reporting that the fascist state of Oregon is ramping up its persecution campaign against Christian bakers who declined to bake a wedding cake for a same sex lesbian couple. Aaron and Melissa Klein, the owners of Sweet Cakes by Melissa, have been told that if they don’t pay the $135,000 awarded to the lesbian couple who sued them, a lien will be placed against their home next week.

Speaking to Todd Starnes of Fox News, Klein said that the case in on appeal and the couple is worried that if they win the appeal, they will never get their money back. ” “This is intimidation and bullying – that’s exactly what it is,” Klein said.

The fascist state of Orgeon has also placed a gag order on the Kleins that makes it illegal for them to talk openly about their desire to participate and profit from same sex weddings through their small business....

H8 Wins Oregon Threatens Home of Christian Bakers - Breitbart

Hmm, have you sent your $1000 donation to help them pay off their debts?

Yeah, no need to.

 

[Pop23]

Part of the theory is, that by not being able to maintain the home, and borrowing money to do so, the home loses value. The entity that holds the lien then assumes the role of the person responsible for the upkeep of its value.

Not being able to sell the home by having a lien and not being able to skip town with the profit does not mean the house is not being maintained.

My mortgage company has held the loan on this house for 16 years. They have a lien on the house and I cannot sell it without them releasing the lien. They are not responsible for maintaining the house.

Since the damage award is $135,000 and they have collected about $500,000 in donations, then they shouldn't have a problem maintaining the home.

>>>>

True, in this individual case.

Your mortgage is an obligation that you and your mortgage company mutually agreed to with certain pledges each made to each other.

The lien is quit a different animal alltogether

Not really.

The property cannot be sold with a lien on it. Whether that lien is derived from a mortgage or from a judicial finding for damages, they restrict the sale of the home.

The Klien's are planning to appeal the finding, as part of the finding they can ask for an injunction preventing the lien. Then it will be up to the State court.


>>>>

A mortgage lien and a governmental lien are worlds different!

One is voluntary and the other is forced upon the property.

The method of entering a lien does not change the basic operation of a lien.


>>>>

You do understand that if you are unable to negotiate an equity loan on a home due to a lien, you lose full value of the ownership of the home.

A lien can do that even if you have full equity, a mortgage likely will not if you have equity.

 

[Dragonlady]

The cake bakers weren't "attacked in public". Their names and addresses weren't publicized. A complaint was filed with a government tribunal that they violated public accommodations laws. The bakers CHOSE to make it public and play victim. That was their choice. The wanted to whine that THEIR rights were being violated.

It's one thing to make a choice to display your bigotry for all the world to see, but to post it on Facebook, where bullying is a way of life, is not wise.

Jesus said that when you are wronged, to turn the other cheek. When asked how many times you must forgive someone who wrongs you replied "70 X 7". If the lesbians wronged the bakers by reporting them, then by Jesus' own words, they were supposed to turn the other cheek. Instead they chose to attack those who wronged them. I would say that Jesus punished them for their sins by having this judgment imposed on them.

 

[boedicca]

Apparently, a $135K fine isn't enough for the Special Snowflake Totalitarians.

Now the state is threatening to take away their home if they don't pay up. This is a preview of future state asset forfeitures for anyone who doesn't share the required Groupthink.


Fox News is reporting that the fascist state of Oregon is ramping up its persecution campaign against Christian bakers who declined to bake a wedding cake for a same sex lesbian couple. Aaron and Melissa Klein, the owners of Sweet Cakes by Melissa, have been told that if they don’t pay the $135,000 awarded to the lesbian couple who sued them, a lien will be placed against their home next week.

Speaking to Todd Starnes of Fox News, Klein said that the case in on appeal and the couple is worried that if they win the appeal, they will never get their money back. ” “This is intimidation and bullying – that’s exactly what it is,” Klein said.

The fascist state of Orgeon has also placed a gag order on the Kleins that makes it illegal for them to talk openly about their desire to participate and profit from same sex weddings through their small business....

H8 Wins Oregon Threatens Home of Christian Bakers - Breitbart

Look at how the rightie lies ... he claims the state is threatening to take their home; but then links to a Fox News article which doesn't state that.

You clearly don't understand the process of how the government can seize property.

But keep drinking your rainbow unicorn piss as it seems to provide you a great deal of comfort.

 

[boedicca]

Did you read something other than what I did?

Bakers who refused to make lesbian wedding cake told to pay 135K by Monday -- or else Fox News

Two Christian bakers who refused to bake a cake for a lesbian wedding have been ordered to pay $135,000 in damages by July 13 or else the state of Oregon could place a lien on their home.
This is standard procedure. If you don't pay the fines, they put a lien on your property. Just like if you owed the IRS money, they would put a lien on your home.

Then they should pay the damned money. Not seeing a problem here, they raised twice that from bigots on line.

I would refuse. They should do what their religious convictions lead them to do.
Or perhaps they will pay the fine, and yet continue to practice their faith.

Regardless, that isn't the point. The point is they are in fact being threatened in losing their home. As much as you leftist claim to never try and punish people of faith, here is a clear example that you are.

Does their faith require them to publish the name and addresses of the two lesbians on Facebook, and through the press, subjecting them and their families' to stalking and death threats?

Do they have 1st Amendment Rights?

 

[Vandalshandle]

I would refuse. They should do what their religious convictions lead them to do. Or perhaps they will pay the fine, and yet continue to practice their faith.

Regardless, that isn't the point. The point is they are in fact being threatened in losing their home. As much as you leftist claim to never try and punish people of faith, here is a clear example that you are.

Hey, there are a whole bunch of people in prison who found Jesus. We still punish them for their crimes.

The Klein's committed a crime. They broke the PA laws of Oregon, and then further complicated matters by publishing the names and addresses of the peopel who complained about them.

THAT'S what they were fined for.

Ok? Did I deny any of the above?

Yes, if you murder someone, and then repent and become a Christian, you still have to pay for the crime. I never suggested otherwise.

And as Christian we are instructed to follow the law as much as we can, provided it doesn't violate our faith. If I see a Christian shoplift from a store, I'm going to turn him in to the police. That is in keeping with my faith.

Nor would I blame pagans for turning him into police.

However, when you throw people in Jail for their faith... that's a different matter. Now I still don't blame you, but I will support and defend a Christian attacked for their faith, to my own death.

You say "well it's the law".... doesn't matter. If the law violates my faith, then you are attacking me for my faith.

I assume you are familiar with Daniel Chapter 6? If not, here's the cliff notes. Daniel was a devout follower of G-d, and prayed to G-d every day. So his enemies convinced the King to make a law that no one could pray to anyone, but the King. Daniel, followed his faith, and continued to pray to G-d. So they charged him with a crime, and sentenced him to death.

"Oh but he was just breaking the law. They were not attacking his faith". No, it was violation of his faith.

Same here. The law is a violation of our faith... thus we are breaking it. You can rationalize the motives all you want, but the fact is you are persecuting us for our faith.

And quite frankly, I fully support what they did in releasing the names and addresses of the people who are persecuting Christians. I think those being accused have a right to face their accuser. And by the way.... it's not just them that is being attacked. All Christians in America are attacked. That's why we have donated to them. I myself have donated to the Memorize Pizza and Sweet Cakes, both. Proudly, by the way.

I agree with the other Christians here. You can have your privacy, when you keep things private. The moment you bring all your crap out in public... then it's public. They choose to make this a public flogging, and so they deserve to have their information out in public. I want to know who is attacking my faith.

And by the way, I absolutely promise here and now, that if what happened to Sweet Cakes, happens to me, I will post the name and address of EVERYONE that does that to me. Not mad.... just making that clear. Absolutely. You attack me in public, I'll make everything I can about you public too.

You reap what you sow.

Apparently, a $135K fine isn't enough for the Special Snowflake Totalitarians.

Now the state is threatening to take away their home if they don't pay up. This is a preview of future state asset forfeitures for anyone who doesn't share the required Groupthink.


Fox News is reporting that the fascist state of Oregon is ramping up its persecution campaign against Christian bakers who declined to bake a wedding cake for a same sex lesbian couple. Aaron and Melissa Klein, the owners of Sweet Cakes by Melissa, have been told that if they don’t pay the $135,000 awarded to the lesbian couple who sued them, a lien will be placed against their home next week.

Speaking to Todd Starnes of Fox News, Klein said that the case in on appeal and the couple is worried that if they win the appeal, they will never get their money back. ” “This is intimidation and bullying – that’s exactly what it is,” Klein said.

The fascist state of Orgeon has also placed a gag order on the Kleins that makes it illegal for them to talk openly about their desire to participate and profit from same sex weddings through their small business....

H8 Wins Oregon Threatens Home of Christian Bakers - Breitbart

Hmm, have you sent your $1000 donation to help them pay off their debts?

Yeah, no need to.

Well, I am sure that they will appreciate the fact that they now have $500,000 PLUS money from Andy. After all, since their faith requires them to release the names of people who have won court cases against them, they will undoubtedly do it over and over for the rest of their lives. That will definitely add up. In fact, I think that Andy should send them more, for next time they break the law.

 

[Statistikhengst]

You're a bigot.

We both are

The difference is you won't admit it

You're still missing the point.....I don't go around calling others a bigot....while being a bigot. That makes you....wait for it....a hypocritical bigot

You just called someone a bigot.

So thinking it, instead of saying it...is just fine huh?

You're still missing the point. I am pointing out your hypocrisy. You loons wore out the racist angle and now are wearing out the bigot card. I laugh at it

It doesn't matter how many times someone points out the bigotry that you deny, or minimize, the fact is you are a bigot, and you just want people to stop pointing that out

Amen.

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

 

[Statistikhengst]

Did you read something other than what I did?

Bakers who refused to make lesbian wedding cake told to pay 135K by Monday -- or else Fox News

Two Christian bakers who refused to bake a cake for a lesbian wedding have been ordered to pay $135,000 in damages by July 13 or else the state of Oregon could place a lien on their home.
This is standard procedure. If you don't pay the fines, they put a lien on your property. Just like if you owed the IRS money, they would put a lien on your home.

Then they should pay the damned money. Not seeing a problem here, they raised twice that from bigots on line.

I would refuse. They should do what their religious convictions lead them to do.
Or perhaps they will pay the fine, and yet continue to practice their faith.

Regardless, that isn't the point. The point is they are in fact being threatened in losing their home. As much as you leftist claim to never try and punish people of faith, here is a clear example that you are.

Does their faith require them to publish the name and addresses of the two lesbians on Facebook, and through the press, subjecting them and their families' to stalking and death threats?

I believe that's called "christian love".

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

 

[Statistikhengst]

Then they should pay the damned money. Not seeing a problem here, they raised twice that from bigots on line.

I would refuse. They should do what their religious convictions lead them to do.
Or perhaps they will pay the fine, and yet continue to practice their faith.

Regardless, that isn't the point. The point is they are in fact being threatened in losing their home. As much as you leftist claim to never try and punish people of faith, here is a clear example that you are.

Does their faith require them to publish the name and addresses of the two lesbians on Facebook, and through the press, subjecting them and their families' to stalking and death threats?

The moment the lesbos decided to make a stink about it they gave up any right to privacy

Sorry, Sas, but I really should have put you on ignore long ago. Your pride in your bigotry is hateful and I have no need to be sucked into your world of negativity. Adios.....

Like I care if a queer ignores me?

You really are stupid enough to believe that everyone who disagrees with you is gay. Too funny.


Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

 

[ChrisL]

Of course I'm right, it became a matter of public record.

Filing the complaint didn't make their names and addresses public. Someone would have had to know the court docket number and pulled the complaint to get this information. That's where the bakers obtained their names and addresses.

What made their names and addresses public was the bakers posting the information on Facebook and in various TV and newspaper interviews. This caused the couple to be harassed, stalked and threatened, and to nearly lose their foster children. Not only did the bakers refuse them service, which was illegal, but they publicized the complaint filed, which led to the couple, who were within their rights to complain, to be harassed and threatened. How very Christian of them.

Had they kept this information to themselves, they wouldn't be paying this fine. But then they couldnt' have been able to claim that they are "victims".

When you set out to do others harm, you often end up shooting yourself in the foot.

Who gives a ****? The lesbos filed the complaint, they deserved what they got.

Wow! Now this is very hateful. Tsk, tsk. Why do you hate gay people so much? Is there any logical reason for this kind of hatred, or does your God tell you to hate?

 

[Vandalshandle]

God has always hated gays. it all started out with that thing about Joseph, and his robe of many colors.....

 

[WorldWatcher]

You do understand that if you are unable to negotiate an equity loan on a home due to a lien, you lose full value of the ownership of the home.

A lien can do that even if you have full equity, a mortgage likely will not if you have equity.

Horseshit Pop.

Where do you get these ideas from?

Let's say I have a house that is worth $200,000, there is $100,000 equity in the home (meaning there remains $100,000 mortgage on the house resulting in a mortgage lien). Now let's say there is a lien on the home for $20,000. I can still arrange to sell the house, but I'm required to clear both liens as part of the closing process. The lien's must be cleared as part of closing to allow title to transfer to the new owner.

So the buyer arranges their financing. The house sells for $200,000. The mortgage lien is paid off. The 2nd lien is paid off. Any remainder is paid to me as the owner.

So you have 200,000 - 100,000 - 20,000 = $80,000 is remaining equity.



>>>>

 

[Pop23]

You do understand that if you are unable to negotiate an equity loan on a home due to a lien, you lose full value of the ownership of the home.

A lien can do that even if you have full equity, a mortgage likely will not if you have equity.

Horseshit Pop.

Where do you get these ideas from?

Let's say I have a house that is worth $200,000, there is $100,000 equity in the home (meaning there remains $100,000 mortgage on the house resulting in a mortgage lien). Now let's say there is a lien on the home for $20,000. I can still arrange to sell the house, but I'm required to clear both liens as part of the closing process. The lien's must be cleared as part of closing to allow title to transfer to the new owner.

So the buyer arranges their financing. The house sells for $200,000. The mortgage lien is paid off. The 2nd lien is paid off. Any remainder is paid to me as the owner.

So you have 200,000 - 100,000 - 20,000 = $80,000 is remaining equity.



>>>>

And this has what exactly with a home equity loan? Do you normally borrow money on your own home to buy your own home?

 

[WorldWatcher]

You do understand that if you are unable to negotiate an equity loan on a home due to a lien, you lose full value of the ownership of the home.

A lien can do that even if you have full equity, a mortgage likely will not if you have equity.

Horseshit Pop.

Where do you get these ideas from?

Let's say I have a house that is worth $200,000, there is $100,000 equity in the home (meaning there remains $100,000 mortgage on the house resulting in a mortgage lien). Now let's say there is a lien on the home for $20,000. I can still arrange to sell the house, but I'm required to clear both liens as part of the closing process. The lien's must be cleared as part of closing to allow title to transfer to the new owner.

So the buyer arranges their financing. The house sells for $200,000. The mortgage lien is paid off. The 2nd lien is paid off. Any remainder is paid to me as the owner.

So you have 200,000 - 100,000 - 20,000 = $80,000 is remaining equity.



>>>>

And this has what exactly with a home equity loan?

You said "unable to negotiate an equity loan on a home due to a lien, you lose full value of the ownership of the home."

Loans against a home create a lien (financial debt that must be discharged before the home can be sold).

Do you normally borrow money on your own home to buy your own home?

Actually yes. Most people don't have the money to pay cash for a home.

So they normally borrow money on the home to buy the home. We call that a mortgage.

>>>>

 

[JoeB131]

The moment the lesbos decided to make a stink about it they gave up any right to privacy

Wow. So you'd be okay if people started republishing the shit you say here on Social Media, then?

 

[Andylusion]

The cake bakers weren't "attacked in public". Their names and addresses weren't publicized. A complaint was filed with a government tribunal that they violated public accommodations laws. The bakers CHOSE to make it public and play victim. That was their choice. The wanted to whine that THEIR rights were being violated.

It's one thing to make a choice to display your bigotry for all the world to see, but to post it on Facebook, where bullying is a way of life, is not wise.

Jesus said that when you are wronged, to turn the other cheek. When asked how many times you must forgive someone who wrongs you replied "70 X 7". If the lesbians wronged the bakers by reporting them, then by Jesus' own words, they were supposed to turn the other cheek. Instead they chose to attack those who wronged them. I would say that Jesus punished them for their sins by having this judgment imposed on them.

When you use government to sue someone, in my book, that's a public action. If they wished to meet with the cake makers privately, and try and work it out.... that would be a private action.

As far as I'm concerned, suing people should be public, and if that ever happens to me, I'm going to buy an add in the new paper, I'll pay for it to be on a billboard. I will post it on every single social media cite, and forum I'm on.

Why? Because it should be public. Period. Where did we ever get this idea that you can ruin people, and hide in anonymity?
This idea that you can secretly take people to court for an offense, but not have to show yourself publicly in doing it? No, that's wrong. I think all court cases should be public.

It's also funny when a pagan quotes verses to Christians.... like we're supposed to do what you say, even though YOU don't.

How about the homos turn the other cheek? If they are not, then you have no business telling us we should.

As for bigotry.... I have not hid anything from anyone. Everyone that asks, knows my position, and I have no problem standing by it. When you call me a bigot, I consider that to be a badge of honor. My answer to you is "thanks".

And lastly, yeah I support them saying their rights are violated, because they are. I don't know why this is so hard for the left wing to grasp, but America was populated by people fleeing religious persecution... the exact persecution you are now returning back to.

If Religious freedom, the right to live and die by the faith values you believe...... is no longer what America stands for?

Then America is dead, and I no longer support America. Logically I will fight, and support the opposition to the infringement of our faith, until the very last day that I live. So you'll have to kill me to shut me up.

 

[Andylusion]

I would refuse. They should do what their religious convictions lead them to do. Or perhaps they will pay the fine, and yet continue to practice their faith.

Regardless, that isn't the point. The point is they are in fact being threatened in losing their home. As much as you leftist claim to never try and punish people of faith, here is a clear example that you are.

Hey, there are a whole bunch of people in prison who found Jesus. We still punish them for their crimes.

The Klein's committed a crime. They broke the PA laws of Oregon, and then further complicated matters by publishing the names and addresses of the peopel who complained about them.

THAT'S what they were fined for.

Ok? Did I deny any of the above?

Yes, if you murder someone, and then repent and become a Christian, you still have to pay for the crime. I never suggested otherwise.

And as Christian we are instructed to follow the law as much as we can, provided it doesn't violate our faith. If I see a Christian shoplift from a store, I'm going to turn him in to the police. That is in keeping with my faith.

Nor would I blame pagans for turning him into police.

However, when you throw people in Jail for their faith... that's a different matter. Now I still don't blame you, but I will support and defend a Christian attacked for their faith, to my own death.

You say "well it's the law".... doesn't matter. If the law violates my faith, then you are attacking me for my faith.

I assume you are familiar with Daniel Chapter 6? If not, here's the cliff notes. Daniel was a devout follower of G-d, and prayed to G-d every day. So his enemies convinced the King to make a law that no one could pray to anyone, but the King. Daniel, followed his faith, and continued to pray to G-d. So they charged him with a crime, and sentenced him to death.

"Oh but he was just breaking the law. They were not attacking his faith". No, it was violation of his faith.

Same here. The law is a violation of our faith... thus we are breaking it. You can rationalize the motives all you want, but the fact is you are persecuting us for our faith.

And quite frankly, I fully support what they did in releasing the names and addresses of the people who are persecuting Christians. I think those being accused have a right to face their accuser. And by the way.... it's not just them that is being attacked. All Christians in America are attacked. That's why we have donated to them. I myself have donated to the Memorize Pizza and Sweet Cakes, both. Proudly, by the way.

I agree with the other Christians here. You can have your privacy, when you keep things private. The moment you bring all your crap out in public... then it's public. They choose to make this a public flogging, and so they deserve to have their information out in public. I want to know who is attacking my faith.

And by the way, I absolutely promise here and now, that if what happened to Sweet Cakes, happens to me, I will post the name and address of EVERYONE that does that to me. Not mad.... just making that clear. Absolutely. You attack me in public, I'll make everything I can about you public too.

You reap what you sow.

Apparently, a $135K fine isn't enough for the Special Snowflake Totalitarians.

Now the state is threatening to take away their home if they don't pay up. This is a preview of future state asset forfeitures for anyone who doesn't share the required Groupthink.


Fox News is reporting that the fascist state of Oregon is ramping up its persecution campaign against Christian bakers who declined to bake a wedding cake for a same sex lesbian couple. Aaron and Melissa Klein, the owners of Sweet Cakes by Melissa, have been told that if they don’t pay the $135,000 awarded to the lesbian couple who sued them, a lien will be placed against their home next week.

Speaking to Todd Starnes of Fox News, Klein said that the case in on appeal and the couple is worried that if they win the appeal, they will never get their money back. ” “This is intimidation and bullying – that’s exactly what it is,” Klein said.

The fascist state of Orgeon has also placed a gag order on the Kleins that makes it illegal for them to talk openly about their desire to participate and profit from same sex weddings through their small business....

H8 Wins Oregon Threatens Home of Christian Bakers - Breitbart

Hmm, have you sent your $1000 donation to help them pay off their debts?

Yeah, no need to.

Well, I am sure that they will appreciate the fact that they now have $500,000 PLUS money from Andy. After all, since their faith requires them to release the names of people who have won court cases against them, they will undoubtedly do it over and over for the rest of their lives. That will definitely add up. In fact, I think that Andy should send them more, for next time they break the law.

And I will. Gladly. I will always support any of my brothers and sisters being attacked for their faith.