The Death of the American Catholic Church

[Mudda]

Failed behaviours? You mean like you, trying to convince people of your nonsense?

Did you just use spell behaviors like the British do? OMG. That makes so much sense, lol.

So now I've reduced you to criticizing spelling. At least you didn't dispute what I said. Good for you.

No. Making fun of you being British.

Too bad I'm not British. The times I post at would verify it. Please try again.

 

[yiostheoy]

You know who else thought like you?

...in order to charm the golden birds, out of the pockets of his dearly beloved neighbours in Christ. He puts himself at the service of the other’s most depraved fancies, plays the pimp between him and his need, excites in him morbid appetites, lies in wait for each of his weaknesses – all so that he can then demand the cash for this service of love. (Every product is a bait with which to seduce away the other’s very being, his money; every real and possible need is a weakness which will lead the fly to the glue-pot. General exploitation of communal human nature, just as every imperfection in man, is a bond with heaven – an avenue giving the priest access to his heart; every need is an opportunity to approach one’s neighbour under the guise of the utmost amiability and to say to him: Dear friend, I give you what you need, but you know the conditio sine qua non; you know the ink in which you have to sign yourself over to me; in providing for your pleasure, I fleece you.)

Karl Marx
Economic and Philosophical Manuscripts of 1844
3rd paragraph

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/needs.htm

Brillant, the "commie" bit. Mr objective.

Are you disagreeing that he believed like you do? I'm nit calling you a socialist, although you very well may be for all I know. What I am saying is that when it comes to religion, you and him see eye to eye. Do you seriously believe that zero good has come from religion?

What you're "nit" doing is making any sense. I point out some objective facts in your religion's history and you leap to "zero good has come from religion". Once religiosos have come to "believe", there is no thinking going on anymore, they just believe, and are uncomfortable with any who question. What ever works for you, it's your's, as each human being's spiritual path should be; their own.

You made an unbalanced argument which shows your lack of objectivity. Now you are trying to divide and conquer those that believe in God by implying they should keep their beliefs to themselves.

Religion in general and Christianity in specific has overwhelmingly been a force for good.


1) Religion promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness
a) Religion creates wonderful charities and organizations
b) Religious persons and institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions
c) Religion has been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing
d) Religion gave us the concept of subsidiarity
e) Religion has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility
f) Religion teaches accountability and responsibility
g) Religion teaches that we have a choice in how we behave
h) Religion teaches that actions have consequences
i) Religion inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe
j) Religion helps us feel connected to one another and to nature
k) Religion helps us feel less alone in the world
l) Religion serves to ennoble the human spirit
m) Religion serves to bind the community together
n) Religion inspires love, peace and happiness
o) Religion serves to create traditions
p) Religion brings order to our lives
q) Religion brings comfort to the terminally ill
r) Religion can act as a source of hope for the oppressed
s) Religion teaches that we can transform ourselves
2) Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon.
a) No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church
i) Modern science was born in the Catholic Church
ii) Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market
iii) The Catholic Church invented the university
iv) Western law grew out of Church canon law
v) the Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life
(1) The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources.
b) Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians
c) Religion gave us America
d) Religion gave us incredible artwork
e) Religion gave us incredible music
f) Religion gave us incredible architecture
g) Christianity has spread democracy
h) Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression.
i) Christians rebuilt Europe after WWII
j) Christians rebuilt Japan after WWII
k) Christians put a man on the moon.
l) Christians ended the cold war.

you forgot

Jewish Persecution | Timeline of Judaism | History of AntiSemitism

Christian Persecution of Jews over the Centuries: Introduction — United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

Persecution by Christians of Jews began during the times of Constantine in reprisal for Jewish persecution of Christians prior.

So this is just more stuff that is the fault of the Jews themselves.

But when you go back 2000 years the memory of the history seems to fade for most.

That's why if you forget history you are condemned to relive it, precisely as Santayana said.

 

[ding]

The don't believe. Problem solved.

But why are you so upset? Because you can't get ANYONE to agree with your bogus god proof? Which boils down to basically "because the universe exists". I guess you're not as clever as you thought.

I'm not upset. I couldn't care less what anyone else believes. Believe, don't believe. Makes no difference to me. At the end of the day we are the sum of our choices. I am happy enough for you to experience the consequences of practicing failed behaviors. It does not affect me one bit.

Failed behaviours? You mean like you, trying to convince people of your nonsense?

lol, what part of I don't care if you believe or not do you not understand?

Your obsessive postings trying to convince everyone of your beliefs say different.

Can you show me any post I have ever made where I said you were wrong to believe what you believe? No, you can't. Can you show me where I have ever argued against you believing what you believe? No, you can't.

I am afraid that you will just have to face the facts that I couldn't give a shit about what you believe.

 

[ding]

Failed behaviours? You mean like you, trying to convince people of your nonsense?

Did you just use spell behaviors like the British do? OMG. That makes so much sense, lol.

So now I've reduced you to criticizing spelling. At least you didn't dispute what I said. Good for you.

No. Making fun of you being British.

Too bad I'm not British. Please try again.

 

[Mudda]

Failed behaviours? You mean like you, trying to convince people of your nonsense?

Did you just use spell behaviors like the British do? OMG. That makes so much sense, lol.

So now I've reduced you to criticizing spelling. At least you didn't dispute what I said. Good for you.

No. Making fun of you being British.

Too bad I'm not British. Please try again.

Check the times I post at fool, and you'll see that I'm right. But I know, you enjoy being wrong. So carry on.

 

[Mudda]

But why are you so upset? Because you can't get ANYONE to agree with your bogus god proof? Which boils down to basically "because the universe exists". I guess you're not as clever as you thought.

I'm not upset. I couldn't care less what anyone else believes. Believe, don't believe. Makes no difference to me. At the end of the day we are the sum of our choices. I am happy enough for you to experience the consequences of practicing failed behaviors. It does not affect me one bit.

Failed behaviours? You mean like you, trying to convince people of your nonsense?

lol, what part of I don't care if you believe or not do you not understand?

Your obsessive postings trying to convince everyone of your beliefs say different.

Can you show me any post I have ever made where I said you were wrong to believe what you believe? No, you can't. Can you show me where I have ever argued against you believing what you believe? No, you can't.

I am afraid that you will just have to face the facts that I couldn't give a shit about what you believe.

Your obsessive postings trying to convince everyone of your beliefs say different.

 

[ding]

Failed behaviours? You mean like you, trying to convince people of your nonsense?

Did you just use spell behaviors like the British do? OMG. That makes so much sense, lol.

So now I've reduced you to criticizing spelling. At least you didn't dispute what I said. Good for you.

Sure, I disputed it. I disputed it in post #174. The British never have been very smart.

 

[ding]

Did you just use spell behaviors like the British do? OMG. That makes so much sense, lol.

So now I've reduced you to criticizing spelling. At least you didn't dispute what I said. Good for you.

No. Making fun of you being British.

Too bad I'm not British. Please try again.

Check the times I post at fool, and you'll see that I'm right. But I know, you enjoy being wrong. So carry on.

Are crying?

 

[ding]

I'm not upset. I couldn't care less what anyone else believes. Believe, don't believe. Makes no difference to me. At the end of the day we are the sum of our choices. I am happy enough for you to experience the consequences of practicing failed behaviors. It does not affect me one bit.

Failed behaviours? You mean like you, trying to convince people of your nonsense?

lol, what part of I don't care if you believe or not do you not understand?

Your obsessive postings trying to convince everyone of your beliefs say different.

Can you show me any post I have ever made where I said you were wrong to believe what you believe? No, you can't. Can you show me where I have ever argued against you believing what you believe? No, you can't.

I am afraid that you will just have to face the facts that I couldn't give a shit about what you believe.

Your obsessive postings trying to convince everyone of your beliefs say different.

Can you show me any post I have ever made where I said you were wrong to believe what you believe? No, you can't. Can you show me where I have ever argued against you believing what you believe? No, you can't.

I am afraid that you will just have to face the facts that I couldn't give a shit about what you believe.

 

[Mudda]

Failed behaviours? You mean like you, trying to convince people of your nonsense?

lol, what part of I don't care if you believe or not do you not understand?

Your obsessive postings trying to convince everyone of your beliefs say different.

Can you show me any post I have ever made where I said you were wrong to believe what you believe? No, you can't. Can you show me where I have ever argued against you believing what you believe? No, you can't.

I am afraid that you will just have to face the facts that I couldn't give a shit about what you believe.

Your obsessive postings trying to convince everyone of your beliefs say different.

Can you show me any post I have ever made where I said you were wrong to believe what you believe? No, you can't. Can you show me where I have ever argued against you believing what you believe? No, you can't.

I am afraid that you will just have to face the facts that I couldn't give a shit about what you believe.

Your obsessive postings trying to convince everyone of your beliefs say different.

 

[Fenton Lum]

At least I'm realistic and also giving you a chance that if you ever come up with real proof of your god, I'm open to changing my mind. Can't be any fairer than that.

It's you who can't come up with real proof so you attempt to mock me. I bet there's a passage in the bible about that.

Realistic? You?

He's correct, you can offer no proof, your entire perceptual reality is subjective by definition.

That would be your opinion, brother. Not mine. There is plenty of evidence for the existence of a Creator. You just reject it all. I don't.

You just can't tell us about it. The Papal Bulls of the 1400's are very insightful as to the Church's view of its own role on the planet. And apparently you fecklessly hope to continue that fine tradition.

Sure I can. You just won't listen to it.

What fine tradition would that be, brother?

Papal Bulls of the 1400's. You can? When will you be starting on that?

 

[Fenton Lum]

Failed behaviours? You mean like you, trying to convince people of your nonsense?

lol, what part of I don't care if you believe or not do you not understand?

Your obsessive postings trying to convince everyone of your beliefs say different.

Can you show me any post I have ever made where I said you were wrong to believe what you believe? No, you can't. Can you show me where I have ever argued against you believing what you believe? No, you can't.

I am afraid that you will just have to face the facts that I couldn't give a shit about what you believe.

Your obsessive postings trying to convince everyone of your beliefs say different.

Can you show me any post I have ever made where I said you were wrong to believe what you believe? No, you can't. Can you show me where I have ever argued against you believing what you believe? No, you can't.

I am afraid that you will just have to face the facts that I couldn't give a shit about what you believe.

Actually he's right, you're very invested, why that's what this entire thread you started is about. Where you said anyone was wrong for not agreeing lock-stock-and-barrel with you? That's what your name calling is about, banishing folks as "socialists", "Marxists" and such. But you know that, that's why your feckless attempt at pontification has become nothing more than playground taunts.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Realistic? You?

At least my mind is open to new discoveries if anyone ever comes up with real proof either way about a god. If you have a brain that works properly, you'll come around.

You? Open minded?

My mind is wide open. The problem is, you have nothing and you've come to realize it, me thinks, so now you're on tilt. Again. You should go and lie down.

You can have this rube, he's pretty empty, gotta run.

Bye bye, Karl.

See you later!

"you're a commie cuz you won't agree with me", how original.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn, I suppose a frothy mouthed zealot's work is never done, paste away friend, in the name of jesus of course.

Sure.

Communism is naturalized humanism. Karl Marx

When you find this follower of Marx you came here with a burning desire to confront you can share that with him/her.

Not at all. I came here with a desire to present my evidence. That's what growth filled communities do. They explore all sides of an issue to arrive at objective truth. Diversity of thought is critical to that process, brother.

And we're still waiting, guess ya got sidetracked with your missionary work here.

lol, I'm no missionary. Just awake.

You will have to wait a bit longer. I have to kill the alligators before I can drain the swamp, if you know what I mean.

Hell son, you don't know what you mean, you don't even know the history of the religion you swallow-n-follow.

 

[Fenton Lum]

How ironic. We're still waiting on you to elucidate your evidence. "You just wouldn't accept it" is pretty thin.

All of Creation and everything in it and everything that has occurred since space and time were created are my evidence.

That was basically a statement of "I have nothing". This is the problem with "believers", once they "believe" they are no longer thinking and questioning.

I see. Thank you for proving that socialism seeks uniformity and conformity. I much prefer the Christian way of free will.

Christian way of "free will"? Hell, you can't even face how this land masss was come by, no wonder, have a nice day in your own little subjective head pard.

I thought you were leaving. What's the matter? Am I getting under your skin? Do you have an overwhelming urge to satisfy an animalistic urge?

Of course I can face the reality of how this land mass was come by. Can you? You act like I am somehow more responsible for it than you. My goodness, please get down off of your high horse because if you fall you might just break your neck. If I am guilty, then you are just as guilty. When are you going to make reparations? What is holding you back from doing so?

It's the internet, folks leave and come back all the time, just an objective observation. Guilty? Who said anything about guilt? That's your religion talking again; guilt, sin, and blame is all it's about, this belief system of yours. Allows everyone to escape any respopnsibility for anything ever.

 

[Fenton Lum]

You telling me what I believe is not presenting evidence of your's. So why were the Puritans murdering women in mob activities again?

Is it because religion is evil and needs to be abolished?

There you go again, if that's your view, state it. You don't see me childishly saying you want Catholicism as the state religion.

I don't want a theocracy.

Do you know why they stopped burning witches at the stake? It is because they realized they weren't witches. If we truly believed that they were witches intent upon doing evil, the logical thing would be to get rid of them. This is the logical conclusion of your argument. You believe religion is evil. Therefore, the logical thing would be to get rid of it.

Let me give you an example... I believe that socialism is evil and we should get rid of it. See? Man, that felt good to say it out loud.

Your aristocracy won't hear of it, it's woven all through american society. It's just no good for the unsubstantial people.

Privatized gains versus socialized losses for the Wall Street bankster class
Internalized profit versus externalized risk and expanse for the "job creator" class
Socialism for the aristocracy versus laissez-faire capitalism for the masses

You're all over the place with this shit, and by the way, you might need to have a word with the current pope about this wealth redistribution paradigm we're currently dealing with.

lol, I am no fan of privatized gains versus socialized losses for the Wall Street bankster class. I would have thrown their butts in jail if I were president. Which BTW, can you remind me who you voted for in 2012 and why this wasn't an issue for you back then?

Internalized profit versus externalized risk and expanse for the "job creator" class? Same answer. I would have thrown their butts in jail if I were president. Which BTW, can you remind me who you voted for in 2012 and why this wasn't an issue for you back then?

Socialism for the aristocracy versus laissez-faire capitalism for the masses? Same answer. I would have thrown their butts in jail if I were president. Which BTW, can you remind me who you voted for in 2012 and why this wasn't an issue for you back then?

I'm all over the place with this shit? No, sweetie. That's you. I would have thrown their butts in jail if I were president. Which BTW, can you remind me who you voted for in 2012 and why this wasn't an issue for you back then?

I might need to have a word with the current pope about this wealth redistribution paradigm we're currently dealing with? Why? That is what you want, not me. You should call him. Don't forget to tell him that you believe religion is evil and should be abolished.

My aristocracy won't hear of it? It's woven all through american society? The evil that socialism represents will perish on its own. It is only a matter of time. Error can't stand. It eventually fails.

It's no good for the unsubstantial people? It is no good for anyone. It is pure evil.

Your system is what it is:

Privatized gains versus socialized losses for the Wall Street bankster class
Internalized profit versus externalized risk and expanse for the "job creator" class
Socialism for the aristocracy versus laissez-faire capitalism for the masses

 

[Fenton Lum]

How ironic. We're still waiting on you to elucidate your evidence. "You just wouldn't accept it" is pretty thin.

All of Creation and everything in it and everything that has occurred since space and time were created are my evidence.

That was basically a statement of "I have nothing". This is the problem with "believers", once they "believe" they are no longer thinking and questioning.

I see. Thank you for proving that socialism seeks uniformity and conformity. I much prefer the Christian way of free will.

Christian way of "free will"? Hell, you can't even face how this land masss was come by, no wonder, have a nice day in your own little subjective head pard.

Are you leaving for good this time?

I come and go often, thanks for the concern.

 

[guno]

Catholic Timeline on Antisemitism

 

[Fenton Lum]

All of Creation and everything in it and everything that has occurred since space and time were created are my evidence.

...that your particular invisible friend who wants us to obey a book made everything? Um... no.

The don't believe. Problem solved.

But why are you so upset? Because you can't get ANYONE to agree with your bogus god proof? Which boils down to basically "because the universe exists". I guess you're not as clever as you thought.

I'm not upset. I couldn't care less what anyone else believes. Believe, don't believe. Makes no difference to me. At the end of the day we are the sum of our choices. I am happy enough for you to experience the consequences of practicing failed behaviors. It does not affect me one bit.

Failed behaviours? You mean like you, trying to convince people of your nonsense?

Knock it off will ya, he's doing god's work here.

 

[Fenton Lum]

You telling me what I believe is not presenting evidence of your's. So why were the Puritans murdering women in mob activities again?

Is it because religion is evil and needs to be abolished?

There you go again, if that's your view, state it. You don't see me childishly saying you want Catholicism as the state religion.

I don't want a theocracy.

Do you know why they stopped burning witches at the stake? It is because they realized they weren't witches. If we truly believed that they were witches intent upon doing evil, the logical thing would be to get rid of them. This is the logical conclusion of your argument. You believe religion is evil. Therefore, the logical thing would be to get rid of it.

Let me give you an example... I believe that socialism is evil and we should get rid of it. See? Man, that felt good to say it out loud.

Your aristocracy won't hear of it, it's woven all through american society. It's just no good for the unsubstantial people.

Privatized gains versus socialized losses for the Wall Street bankster class
Internalized profit versus externalized risk and expanse for the "job creator" class
Socialism for the aristocracy versus laissez-faire capitalism for the masses

You're all over the place with this shit, and by the way, you might need to have a word with the current pope about this wealth redistribution paradigm we're currently dealing with.

My aristocracy? Remind me again which party had a supermajority in February 2008, lol?

The redistribution of societal wealth has been going on for a bit over half a century now, and it has been utterly bipartisan. Clearly you're as confused on this as you are on your own spirituality.