The Death of Private Sector Unions: Boeing Wins Contract Fight with Machinists Union

[JoeB131]

Wow, Tampon, you posted an article that has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

Bravo. It must take that much effort to so often miss the point.

The reason the city has no REVENUES is because all the auto jobs vanished. Partially due to foreign competition, partially due to outsourcing of parts, partially due to automation... but mostly due to the fact that the people running the big three were greedy assholes with no vision.

The failure of Detroit's economy is a symptom, not a cause.

 

[zeke]

Labor Unions in the private sector are dwindling away, and their influence is waning. As we all no doubt witnessed in Wisconsin on June of 2012, the failure to recall Scott Walker sounded the death knell of private sector unions in America. It appears jobs are more important than the profit. Now, Boeing may have dealt the final blow, winning a scathing contract fight with it's machinists union in Washington over the construction of the Boeing 777X aircraft.



Boeing machinists OK contract tied to 777X | Local & Regional | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News

What is your point? I thought you hated unions? So why the lament that unions are dying?
Well no shit. And their (unions) death is a prime reason wages have not risen for the working man.

Again, what is your point?

btw, machinist's are highly skilled, hard to replace. We already have a shortage of people trained as machinists. If you fly in one of Boeing's planes, be glad they have UNION machinists helping build them.

Oy, try reading before posting.

I was lauding Boeing for putting the unionists in their places. Boeing has as much right to set up shop wherever it pleases as those workers do to work. I despise unions because the rob people of their right to choose.

No. You need to learn to write better. And ain't it special that the dude who has never had a fucking job is all for lower wages for working men and women. Ain't that special.

You are going to get one of those fine minimum wage jobs.....some day. Aren't you?

 

[JoeB131]

I find it amusing that a guy who has admitted the height of his professional working life was being a bagger in a grocery store is going to lecture the rest of us on labor policy.

Just too fucking funny.

 

[occupied]

Unions like democrats and therefore must die, It's all anyone has to know about conservative treason against the American workforce because it's all the thought they are willing to put into it.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Unions like democrats and therefore must die, It's all anyone has to know about conservative treason against the American workforce because it's all the thought they are willing to put into it.

You lost me at 'treason'.

 

[zeke]

I find it amusing that a guy who has admitted the height of his professional working life was being a bagger in a grocery store is going to lecture the rest of us on labor policy.

Just too fucking funny.

I don't find it very funny Joe. But I know what you mean.

Fucking dude's never had a job that he could make a living at, but is all for those men and women who have families and obligations, making LESS money than they could or should.

All so this asshole (tampon carmac) can run his mouth about how terrible unions are. When he probably doesn't know anyone that ever had a union job.

The guys an asshole. The fool (tampon carmac) doesn't even know just how profitable Boeing is and has been over the past few years. And this fool thinks that the union members building these planes didn't contribute to the profitability.Then the union members had the balls to accept the package offered to save the jobs they have.
Knowing that some members wouldn't like what was passed. And they did it anyway.

All the while Boeing executives are making millions and no one is threatening to take away their jobs.

Hey carmac, you so concerned about Boeing, maybe you should lobby for their executives to take a cut in pay. Those executives are part of the "Good Ole Boy Union" you know.

 

[martybegan]

This one of the most nonsensical issues conservatives get all fired up about, you would think every conservative is a CEO and will get more money just as soon as they can find a way to chisel it out of some working sap's paycheck.

Not if millions of unionized working saps demanding their pensions drain a major city of it's revenue day in and day out while crippling it's economy. All we need look to is Detroit for an example of what happens when these "working saps" want bigger and bigger checks and bigger pensions.

Public sector unions are private sector unions are two different things. To me private sector unions are viable, while the public sector union model is soon to be doomed.

The simple issue is that a private sector union knows it can only go so far before it puts the company out of business or makes it so unprofitable that it slowly dies off. Public sector unions can use thier voting power to make sure friendly people are elected to government, allowing them to shove off costs decades down the road, leaving the problem to someone else. They operate under the false assumption that taxes can always be raised (on someone else), that 12% returns on investment are givens, and that someone will always be around to pay the bill.

 

[occupied]

Unions like democrats and therefore must die, It's all anyone has to know about conservative treason against the American workforce because it's all the thought they are willing to put into it.

You lost me at 'treason'.

What the hell do you call it when an entire political party publicly abandons the American worker and facilitates their slow ruin at the hands of the 1%? That's right, you call it capitalism. It's trickle up, just the way you like it.

 

[TemplarKormac]

This one of the most nonsensical issues conservatives get all fired up about, you would think every conservative is a CEO and will get more money just as soon as they can find a way to chisel it out of some working sap's paycheck.

Not if millions of unionized working saps demanding their pensions drain a major city of it's revenue day in and day out while crippling it's economy. All we need look to is Detroit for an example of what happens when these "working saps" want bigger and bigger checks and bigger pensions.

Public sector unions are private sector unions are two different things. To me private sector unions are viable, while the public sector union model is soon to be doomed.

The simple issue is that a private sector union knows it can only go so far before it puts the company out of business or makes it so unprofitable that it slowly dies off. Public sector unions can use thier voting power to make sure friendly people are elected to government, allowing them to shove off costs decades down the road, leaving the problem to someone else. They operate under the false assumption that taxes can always be raised (on someone else), that 12% returns on investment are givens, and that someone will always be around to pay the bill.

I see unions as all one in the same. They are a cancer, either to a government or an economy. I don't begrudge someone to earn an honest day's wages, but to take a local or state economy or government hostage to earn more that necessary is a bit distasteful to me.

 

[JoeB131]

I find it amusing that a guy who has admitted the height of his professional working life was being a bagger in a grocery store is going to lecture the rest of us on labor policy.

Just too fucking funny.

I don't find it very funny Joe. But I know what you mean.

Fucking dude's never had a job that he could make a living at, but is all for those men and women who have families and obligations, making LESS money than they could or should.

All so this asshole (tampon carmac) can run his mouth about how terrible unions are. When he probably doesn't know anyone that ever had a union job.

The guys an asshole. The fool (tampon carmac) doesn't even know just how profitable Boeing is and has been over the past few years. And this fool thinks that the union members building these planes didn't contribute to the profitability.Then the union members had the balls to accept the package offered to save the jobs they have.
Knowing that some members wouldn't like what was passed. And they did it anyway.

All the while Boeing executives are making millions and no one is threatening to take away their jobs.

Hey carmac, you so concerned about Boeing, maybe you should lobby for their executives to take a cut in pay. Those executives are part of the "Good Ole Boy Union" you know.

I think it's a little worse than that, because the only reason why Boeing is profitalbe is because they are making BILLIONS off of contracts with the Federal Government. But Mr. "Small Government" has no problem with that.

 

[Seawytch]

I find it amusing that a guy who has admitted the height of his professional working life was being a bagger in a grocery store is going to lecture the rest of us on labor policy.

Just too fucking funny.

I don't find it very funny Joe. But I know what you mean.

Fucking dude's never had a job that he could make a living at, but is all for those men and women who have families and obligations, making LESS money than they could or should.

All so this asshole (tampon carmac) can run his mouth about how terrible unions are. When he probably doesn't know anyone that ever had a union job.

The guys an asshole. The fool (tampon carmac) doesn't even know just how profitable Boeing is and has been over the past few years. And this fool thinks that the union members building these planes didn't contribute to the profitability.Then the union members had the balls to accept the package offered to save the jobs they have.
Knowing that some members wouldn't like what was passed. And they did it anyway.

All the while Boeing executives are making millions and no one is threatening to take away their jobs.

Hey carmac, you so concerned about Boeing, maybe you should lobby for their executives to take a cut in pay. Those executives are part of the "Good Ole Boy Union" you know.

Yup...while they're working to cut workers pay and benefits...

Boeing CEO gets 20% pay raise

Boeing Co. CEO James McNerney received a 20 percent pay raise 2012, to $27.5 million, according to the company's proxy statement.​

 

[Shaarona]

Not if millions of unionized working saps demanding their pensions drain a major city of it's revenue day in and day out while crippling it's economy. All we need look to is Detroit for an example of what happens when these "working saps" want bigger and bigger checks and bigger pensions.

Public sector unions are private sector unions are two different things. To me private sector unions are viable, while the public sector union model is soon to be doomed.

The simple issue is that a private sector union knows it can only go so far before it puts the company out of business or makes it so unprofitable that it slowly dies off. Public sector unions can use thier voting power to make sure friendly people are elected to government, allowing them to shove off costs decades down the road, leaving the problem to someone else. They operate under the false assumption that taxes can always be raised (on someone else), that 12% returns on investment are givens, and that someone will always be around to pay the bill.

I see unions as all one in the same. They are a cancer, either to a government or an economy. I don't begrudge someone to earn an honest day's wages, but to take a local or state economy or government hostage to earn more that necessary is a bit distasteful to me.

Union membership has been declining steadily since the 1950s.

 

[JoeB131]

[

I see unions as all one in the same. They are a cancer, either to a government or an economy. I don't begrudge someone to earn an honest day's wages, but to take a local or state economy or government hostage to earn more that necessary is a bit distasteful to me.

Do you think these companies would pay a honest day's wages unless they had to?

Get real, guy.

The thing is, the companies have the ability to hold economies hostage merely by threatening to move a factory to Cleetus' right to work state or a third world country, and they shake down municipalities for tax breaks and the like...

And you have no problem with that.

Again- Conservatism is a form of Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I find it amusing that a guy who has admitted the height of his professional working life was being a bagger in a grocery store is going to lecture the rest of us on labor policy.

Just too fucking funny.

I don't find it very funny Joe. But I know what you mean.

Fucking dude's never had a job that he could make a living at, but is all for those men and women who have families and obligations, making LESS money than they could or should.

All so this asshole (tampon carmac) can run his mouth about how terrible unions are. When he probably doesn't know anyone that ever had a union job.

The guys an asshole. The fool (tampon carmac) doesn't even know just how profitable Boeing is and has been over the past few years. And this fool thinks that the union members building these planes didn't contribute to the profitability.Then the union members had the balls to accept the package offered to save the jobs they have.
Knowing that some members wouldn't like what was passed. And they did it anyway.

All the while Boeing executives are making millions and no one is threatening to take away their jobs.

Hey carmac, you so concerned about Boeing, maybe you should lobby for their executives to take a cut in pay. Those executives are part of the "Good Ole Boy Union" you know.

Yup...while they're working to cut workers pay and benefits...

Boeing CEO gets 20% pay raise

Boeing Co. CEO James McNerney received a 20 percent pay raise 2012, to $27.5 million, according to the company's proxy statement.​

So? Should everyone get a 20% pay raise? Or would they rather keep their jobs instead? They can't have both.

 

[occupied]

Not if millions of unionized working saps demanding their pensions drain a major city of it's revenue day in and day out while crippling it's economy. All we need look to is Detroit for an example of what happens when these "working saps" want bigger and bigger checks and bigger pensions.

Public sector unions are private sector unions are two different things. To me private sector unions are viable, while the public sector union model is soon to be doomed.

The simple issue is that a private sector union knows it can only go so far before it puts the company out of business or makes it so unprofitable that it slowly dies off. Public sector unions can use thier voting power to make sure friendly people are elected to government, allowing them to shove off costs decades down the road, leaving the problem to someone else. They operate under the false assumption that taxes can always be raised (on someone else), that 12% returns on investment are givens, and that someone will always be around to pay the bill.

I see unions as all one in the same. They are a cancer, either to a government or an economy. I don't begrudge someone to earn an honest day's wages, but to take a local or state economy or government hostage to earn more that necessary is a bit distasteful to me.

What a crock of shit, the winners in this particular battle are the queens of sucking millions of unnecessary profit from the local/state/federal government. They barely pay taxes at all, ever.

 

[Seawytch]

I don't find it very funny Joe. But I know what you mean.

Fucking dude's never had a job that he could make a living at, but is all for those men and women who have families and obligations, making LESS money than they could or should.

All so this asshole (tampon carmac) can run his mouth about how terrible unions are. When he probably doesn't know anyone that ever had a union job.

The guys an asshole. The fool (tampon carmac) doesn't even know just how profitable Boeing is and has been over the past few years. And this fool thinks that the union members building these planes didn't contribute to the profitability.Then the union members had the balls to accept the package offered to save the jobs they have.
Knowing that some members wouldn't like what was passed. And they did it anyway.

All the while Boeing executives are making millions and no one is threatening to take away their jobs.

Hey carmac, you so concerned about Boeing, maybe you should lobby for their executives to take a cut in pay. Those executives are part of the "Good Ole Boy Union" you know.

Yup...while they're working to cut workers pay and benefits...

Boeing CEO gets 20% pay raise

Boeing Co. CEO James McNerney received a 20 percent pay raise 2012, to $27.5 million, according to the company's proxy statement.​

So? Should everyone get a 20% pay raise? Or would they rather keep their jobs instead? They can't have both.

No, how about instead of giving the CEO 27 million dollars in one year, you spread that around to your workers whose wages have stagnated since Ronald Reagan decided to piss on us with "trickle down".

 

[chikenwing]

Again, when I'm flying at 20,000 feet in a metal tube at 400 MPH, I really want the guys who put it together to be well trained and satisfied with their jobs. I want them well paid.

I don't want it made in a "Right to Work" state by the guy who got turned down for the job of Possum Catcher.

And you think,union people are better,then non union?

And Boing wouldn't make sure of the quality,without a union?

I think Union people are more likely to be satisfied with thier jobs, and usually have more experience than some scab they hired, yeah.

Total Bull shit,been a union member,have worked beside union members,you post means nothing. I'll take a scab any day over a self entitled union member.

 

[Seawytch]

Public sector unions are private sector unions are two different things. To me private sector unions are viable, while the public sector union model is soon to be doomed.

The simple issue is that a private sector union knows it can only go so far before it puts the company out of business or makes it so unprofitable that it slowly dies off. Public sector unions can use thier voting power to make sure friendly people are elected to government, allowing them to shove off costs decades down the road, leaving the problem to someone else. They operate under the false assumption that taxes can always be raised (on someone else), that 12% returns on investment are givens, and that someone will always be around to pay the bill.

I see unions as all one in the same. They are a cancer, either to a government or an economy. I don't begrudge someone to earn an honest day's wages, but to take a local or state economy or government hostage to earn more that necessary is a bit distasteful to me.

Union membership has been declining steadily since the 1950s.

More like the mid 60s...and our wages have declined right alongside.

 

[JoeB131]

I don't find it very funny Joe. But I know what you mean.

Fucking dude's never had a job that he could make a living at, but is all for those men and women who have families and obligations, making LESS money than they could or should.

All so this asshole (tampon carmac) can run his mouth about how terrible unions are. When he probably doesn't know anyone that ever had a union job.

The guys an asshole. The fool (tampon carmac) doesn't even know just how profitable Boeing is and has been over the past few years. And this fool thinks that the union members building these planes didn't contribute to the profitability.Then the union members had the balls to accept the package offered to save the jobs they have.
Knowing that some members wouldn't like what was passed. And they did it anyway.

All the while Boeing executives are making millions and no one is threatening to take away their jobs.

Hey carmac, you so concerned about Boeing, maybe you should lobby for their executives to take a cut in pay. Those executives are part of the "Good Ole Boy Union" you know.

Yup...while they're working to cut workers pay and benefits...

Boeing CEO gets 20% pay raise

Boeing Co. CEO James McNerney received a 20 percent pay raise 2012, to $27.5 million, according to the company's proxy statement.​

So? Should everyone get a 20% pay raise? Or would they rather keep their jobs instead? They can't have both.

If the working guys can't get a pay raise, the CEO shouldn't get one, either.

In fact, there should be a rule that if you lay people off or cut payroll, you have to lose a certain amount in the executive suit.

It's called, "leading by example."

 

[Mac1958]

.

Hopefully one day we'll get past the simplistic, binary, all-or-nothing debate on unions and look for ways for them to provide strong wages, benefits and quality without hamstringing American businesses in an increasingly intense, globally competitive environment. Maybe a slightly more complicated approach to addressing this complicated issue.

It won't happen as long as the partisan ideologues are screaming, of course, but hopefully one day.

.