The day the Taliban was ready to negotiate surrender terms and we said no.

[Jimmy_Chitwood]

Taliban fighters brandished Kalashnikovs and shook their fists in the air after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, defying American warnings that if they did not hand over Osama Bin Laden, their country would be bombed to smithereens.
The bravado faded once American bombs began to fall. Within a few weeks, many of the Taliban had fled the Afghan capital, terrified by the low whine of approaching B-52 aircraft. Soon, they were a spent force, on the run across the arid mountain-scape of Afghanistan.

As one of the journalists who covered them in the early days of the war, I saw their uncertainty and loss of control firsthand.

It was in the waning days of November 2001 that Taliban leaders began to reach out to Hamid Karzai, who would soon become the interim president of Afghanistan: They wanted to make a deal.

“The Taliban were completely defeated, they had no demands, except amnesty,” recalled Barnett Rubin, who worked with the United Nations’ political team in Afghanistan at the time.

Messengers shuttled back and forth between Mr. Karzai and the headquarters of the Taliban leader, Mullah Muhammad Omar, in Kandahar. Mr. Karzai envisioned a Taliban surrender that would keep the militants from playing any significant role in the country’s future.

But Washington, confident that the Taliban would be wiped out forever, was in no mood for a deal.

“The United States is not inclined to negotiate surrenders,” Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld said in a news conference at the time, adding that the Americans had no interest in leaving Mullah Omar to live out his days anywhere in Afghanistan. The United States wanted him captured or dead."

Did the War in Afghanistan Have to Happen? (Published 2021)

In 2001, when the Taliban were weak and ready to surrender, the U.S. passed on a deal. Nearly 20 years later, the Taliban hold all the cards.

www.nytimes.com

Of course twenty years later it was the US that effectively surrendered to the Taliban under a deal reached by the Trump Administration and implemented by the Biden Administration.

The purpose of this thread is not to place blame on either Trump or Biden but on the neo-cons in the Bush Administration, Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, and Bush himself for not seizing the opportunity to end the war quickly.

Would the Taliban have just faded away if we negotiated a surrender?

Maybe or Maybe not, but it was an opportunity missed. Rather the Taliban regrouped to fight another day, not without an insignificant amount of help from Pakistan.

Just another failure of the George W. Bush Administration we will live with for years to come.

So you would have negotiated surrender terms with the Japs and the Krauts.

Sad really.

 

[Uncensored2008]

The unsurpassed folly of "W" and his Bush league has been unfailingly continued under successive administrators of the duopoly's bidding.

So why didn't your god Obammy fix it? He said he would. Did your god lie? Too busy collecting Iranian cash for his Martha's Vineyard estate to worry about Afghanistan?

 

[Jimmy_Chitwood]

Every step the US made with Afghanistan has been wrong. Bush wanted revenge because he didn't get his gas pipeline across Afghanistan to Dabhol.

How hard did you cheer on 9/11?

 

[Uncensored2008]

It calls them freedom fighters.

surada is Hezbollah.

 

[Hang on Sloopy]

Backhanded perhaps.

Great. I have Ninja status now here. It means your reaction score can't possibly be better mathematically

Excalibur is the God of reaction scores...................Bastid

It is like being on the Homecoming Court

 

[Uncensored2008]

How hard did you cheer on 9/11?

Until she peed herself.

 

[JLW]

So you would have negotiated surrender terms with the Japs and the Krauts.

Sad really.

Your post makes no sense.

Did we ever receive unconditional surrender from the Taliban?

Wasn't the mission in Afghanistan to destroy al-Quaida and kill Bin Laden?

Why shouldn't we have accepted the Taliban's surrender?

Would we not be possibly be better off today had we?

Could it be worse?

 

[Correll]

Taliban fighters brandished Kalashnikovs and shook their fists in the air after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, defying American warnings that if they did not hand over Osama Bin Laden, their country would be bombed to smithereens.
The bravado faded once American bombs began to fall. Within a few weeks, many of the Taliban had fled the Afghan capital, terrified by the low whine of approaching B-52 aircraft. Soon, they were a spent force, on the run across the arid mountain-scape of Afghanistan.

As one of the journalists who covered them in the early days of the war, I saw their uncertainty and loss of control firsthand.

It was in the waning days of November 2001 that Taliban leaders began to reach out to Hamid Karzai, who would soon become the interim president of Afghanistan: They wanted to make a deal.

“The Taliban were completely defeated, they had no demands, except amnesty,” recalled Barnett Rubin, who worked with the United Nations’ political team in Afghanistan at the time.

Messengers shuttled back and forth between Mr. Karzai and the headquarters of the Taliban leader, Mullah Muhammad Omar, in Kandahar. Mr. Karzai envisioned a Taliban surrender that would keep the militants from playing any significant role in the country’s future.

But Washington, confident that the Taliban would be wiped out forever, was in no mood for a deal.

“The United States is not inclined to negotiate surrenders,” Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld said in a news conference at the time, adding that the Americans had no interest in leaving Mullah Omar to live out his days anywhere in Afghanistan. The United States wanted him captured or dead."

Did the War in Afghanistan Have to Happen? (Published 2021)

In 2001, when the Taliban were weak and ready to surrender, the U.S. passed on a deal. Nearly 20 years later, the Taliban hold all the cards.

www.nytimes.com

Of course twenty years later it was the US that effectively surrendered to the Taliban under a deal reached by the Trump Administration and implemented by the Biden Administration.

The purpose of this thread is not to place blame on either Trump or Biden but on the neo-cons in the Bush Administration, Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, and Bush himself for not seizing the opportunity to end the war quickly.

Would the Taliban have just faded away if we negotiated a surrender?

Maybe or Maybe not, but it was an opportunity missed. Rather the Taliban regrouped to fight another day, not without an insignificant amount of help from Pakistan.

Just another failure of the George W. Bush Administration we will live with for years to come.

Any attempt at nation building in Afghanistan was doomed to fail. We should have picked a local strong man, declared him King, put him on a throne in Kabul and given him enough artillery to defend the capital and left the rest of the country rot in its stone age barbarism.


If they had accepted the surrender of the Taliban at that point, the nation would still have fallen apart and you would be attacking Bush for ACCEPTING the surrender instead of wiping them out to the last man.

 

[Flash]

I wonder what the hell President Potatohead is promising the Taliban to keep them from killing Americans?

Is it barrels of cash like he gave the Iranians?

 

[JLW]

Any attempt at nation building in Afghanistan was doomed to fail. We should have picked a local strong man, declared him King, put him on a throne in Kabul and given him enough artillery to defend the capital and left the rest of the country rot in its stone age barbarism.


If they had accepted the surrender of the Taliban at that point, the nation would still have fallen apart and you would be attacking Bush for ACCEPTING the surrender instead of wiping them out to the last man.

The point is we didn't wipe them out. The Taliban regrouped. If we had negotiated settlement terms then would we be in a different place today?

Really this thread is delving into "what if" scenarios.

I really did not know until today that surrender negotiations were under way in 2001.

If Amnesty had been given to the Taliban would that have ended it all?

Maybe/Maybe not.

 

[Jimmy_Chitwood]

Your post makes no sense.

Did we ever receive unconditional surrender from the Taliban?

Wasn't the mission in Afghanistan to destroy al-Quaida and kill Bin Laden?

Why shouldn't we have accepted the Taliban's surrender?

Would we not be possibly be better off today had we?

Could it be worse?

Sorry you went to public school ma'am and are confused.

No we never received unconditional surrender from the Taliban.

 

[Meathead]

The point is we didn't wipe them out. The Taliban regrouped. If we had negotiated settlement terms then would we be in a different place today?

Biden's election was a victory for China, the Taliban, Iran, North Korea and the skank squad.

 

[Correll]

The point is we didn't wipe them out. The Taliban regrouped. If we had negotiated settlement terms then would we be in a different place today?

Really this thread is delving into "what if" scenarios.

I really did not know until today that surrender negotiations were under way in 2001.

If Amnesty had been given to the Taliban would that have ended it all?

Maybe/Maybe not.

Yeah, I got that point. My response addressed it.

My counter point is that any and all attempt to nation build in a shit hole like Afghanistan was doomed to fail. THAT is the decision point that ensured failure.


If we had accepted their surrender, those Taliban forces would have stood down. Sure. Perhaps for even weeks or months.

But sooner or later, shit would fall apart, the violence would start up, and more and more of then would have rejoined the fight, and sooner or later we were going to leave.


And at that point, people like you would be attacking Bush, saying that if only he had NOT accepted that surrender, and kept fighting, that that "would have ended it all".


The lesson here is that you can't build a nation, out of stone age barbarians. That is the lesson we have to remember moving forward and apply to the next time we have to have a war with a nation of stone age barbarians.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Taliban fighters brandished Kalashnikovs and shook their fists in the air after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, defying American warnings that if they did not hand over Osama Bin Laden, their country would be bombed to smithereens.
The bravado faded once American bombs began to fall. Within a few weeks, many of the Taliban had fled the Afghan capital, terrified by the low whine of approaching B-52 aircraft. Soon, they were a spent force, on the run across the arid mountain-scape of Afghanistan.

As one of the journalists who covered them in the early days of the war, I saw their uncertainty and loss of control firsthand.

It was in the waning days of November 2001 that Taliban leaders began to reach out to Hamid Karzai, who would soon become the interim president of Afghanistan: They wanted to make a deal.

“The Taliban were completely defeated, they had no demands, except amnesty,” recalled Barnett Rubin, who worked with the United Nations’ political team in Afghanistan at the time.

Messengers shuttled back and forth between Mr. Karzai and the headquarters of the Taliban leader, Mullah Muhammad Omar, in Kandahar. Mr. Karzai envisioned a Taliban surrender that would keep the militants from playing any significant role in the country’s future.

But Washington, confident that the Taliban would be wiped out forever, was in no mood for a deal.

“The United States is not inclined to negotiate surrenders,” Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld said in a news conference at the time, adding that the Americans had no interest in leaving Mullah Omar to live out his days anywhere in Afghanistan. The United States wanted him captured or dead."

Did the War in Afghanistan Have to Happen? (Published 2021)

In 2001, when the Taliban were weak and ready to surrender, the U.S. passed on a deal. Nearly 20 years later, the Taliban hold all the cards.

www.nytimes.com

Of course twenty years later it was the US that effectively surrendered to the Taliban under a deal reached by the Trump Administration and implemented by the Biden Administration.

The purpose of this thread is not to place blame on either Trump or Biden but on the neo-cons in the Bush Administration, Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, and Bush himself for not seizing the opportunity to end the war quickly.

Would the Taliban have just faded away if we negotiated a surrender?

Maybe or Maybe not, but it was an opportunity missed. Rather the Taliban regrouped to fight another day, not without an insignificant amount of help from Pakistan.

Just another failure of the George W. Bush Administration we will live with for years to come.

Because Biden was an outsider with no previous role in the American government before he was cheating into the Presidency right?

 

[JLW]

Biden's elect

Sorry you went to public school ma'am and are confused.

No we never received unconditional surrender from the Taliban.

That was my point that you obviously missed.

 

[JLW]

Yeah, I got that point. My response addressed it.

My counter point is that any and all attempt to nation build in a shit hole like Afghanistan was doomed to fail. THAT is the decision point that ensured failure.


If we had accepted their surrender, those Taliban forces would have stood down. Sure. Perhaps for even weeks or months.

But sooner or later, shit would fall apart, the violence would start up, and more and more of then would have rejoined the fight, and sooner or later we were going to leave.


And at that point, people like you would be attacking Bush, saying that if only he had NOT accepted that surrender, and kept fighting, that that "would have ended it all".


The lesson here is that you can't build a nation, out of stone age barbarians. That is the lesson we have to remember moving forward and apply to the next time we have to have a war with a nation of stone age barbarians.

I agree with you that nation building is a very bad idea. I do not agree that I would have attacked Bush if he negotiated surrender terms with the Taliban. If fighting erupted again would Bush have been blamed for the failure of the deal? Unfortunately that may true depending on whose watch it occurred. I am not sure that reaching surrender terms with the Taliban then would have resulted in a worse outcome than today. Looking back now, and the 2,500 American lives lost and close to 2 trillion dollars spent, it probably would have been worth a shot. Of course, you know what they say about hindsight.

 

[Correll]

I agree with you that nation building is a very bad idea. I do not agree that I would have attacked Bush if he negotiated surrender terms with the Taliban. If fighting erupted again would Bush have been blamed for the failure of the deal? Unfortunately that may true depending on whose watch it occurred. I am not sure that reaching surrender terms with the Taliban then would have resulted in a worse outcome than today. Looking back now, and the 2,500 American lives lost and close to 2 trillion dollars spent, it probably would have been worth a shot. Of course, you know what they say about hindsight.

Perhaps you personally would not have. Someone would be.


Learning any lessons is quite difficult when the field is dominated by bad faith actors.

 

[surada]

Liar.

The US evacuated 10,400 people from Kabul on Sunday

After CNN reported Monday that US forces had stopped allowing applicants for the Special Immigrant Visa (SIV) to enter Kabul airport, a public affairs officer for the US Embassy in Kabul, John Johnson, said "we are currently prioritizing" American citizens and legal permanent residents for entry.

"Due to a deteriorating security environment we are asking all others not to come to the airport at this time — the gates remain closed," he said.
A source told CNN’s Nick Paton Walsh on Monday that the current policy is to only let US and NATO citizens into the airport base, but that they hoped soon to move to permitting SIVs and also the US Embassy’s local Afghan staff.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Joint Chiefs Chairman Austin to Americans trapped in Afghanistan: wear a mask!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I agree with you that nation building is a very bad idea. I do not agree that I would have attacked Bush if he negotiated surrender terms with the Taliban. If fighting erupted again would Bush have been blamed for the failure of the deal? Unfortunately that may true depending on whose watch it occurred. I am not sure that reaching surrender terms with the Taliban then would have resulted in a worse outcome than today. Looking back now, and the 2,500 American lives lost and close to 2 trillion dollars spent, it probably would have been worth a shot. Of course, you know what they say about hindsight.

Why are we still in Germany, Japan and South Korea?