The Daily Freakout: Solar Energy

[Mr. Shaman]

SOLAR ENERGY IS BACK AT THE WHITE HOUSE

Again, nice linky showing:

With little fanfare, the Bush administration has installed three solarenergy systems on the grounds of the White House.

Has Obama done anything...?? HMMMM???...

Yeah.....he's putin' a lil' science-project together.....

"GOLLY, Daddy!!! It looks bigger'n MINE!!!!!"​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

When evaluating the REAL cost of energy one must include the cost of attain that energy (including the cost of making the equipment, or to find the sources of it) as well as the cost of the POLLUTION that using that form of energy.

And it's that second part, the cost of the pollution, where our economics is (I think) missing the real cost of hydrocarbons.

I don't believe exploiting hydrocarbons IS really a cheaper energy source. (easier to find and explot, yes)

I just think that most of their TOTAL costs have as yet not been QUANTIFIED correctly.

What is the cost, for example, of the disaster in the Gulf?

What is the cost, for example, of spewing crap into the air?

We can't quantify those costs very accurately, and mostly we don't want to quantify those costs AT ALL.

There's NO FREE lunch when it comes to producing or tapping energy, folks.

At this point in time the manufacture of green energy requires the use of hydrocarbon based energy.

That's what you've heard, huh???

​

 

[skookerasbil]

This is a fascintating thread in the way it reveals the thinking of many of the people on this board. From those like Kookybill, rejecting the whole idea without the slightest knowledge of the technology or it's potential, to those that oppose it on the political grounds, in that it is normally associated with 'liberal environmentalists'.

Then we have the hard headed number crunchers, that right now reject this technology because it cannot show an immediate cost return. In spite of the fact that the cost curve on this power is downward, while that of fossil fuels are ever upward. Even without the externalized costs of fossil fuels.

Then those that are cautiously interested. Those are the people that count. They are not going to pay for something that does not have a return in a reasonable time, but they are not going to reject a new technology on the basis of someone's political perceptions or luddite leanings.

In the last five years, I have seen the costs of solar drop by a factor of five, efficiencies jump from a top of 14% to 24%. In the next five, we will see an even greater increase in efficiency, and a drop of a factor of 3.

All of us have solar in our future, whether as individual installations, or installations by our utilities. The major question is whether we will manufacturing it ourselves, or buying from others.

LOL s0n.........you post up about 1,000 posts a year on technology this.........technology that...........and its all theoretical bullshit when it gets down to brass tacks. Why? Because Americans have been opening up their wallets quite enough and they are sick as shit of it and not at all interested in the Disney world of the environmental asshats.

It only resonates with the true believers...........the hard core k00ks who are desperate to find something meaningful in their lives. A gigantic majority af Americans dont give a flying fcukk about predictions that cant ever be proven. They've been hearing enough BS from liberal politicians for the past 18 months. Here we are on the precipice of a third depression and the true belivers want to do even more to fcukk up out economy PLUS cost America another 1.5 million jobs.

Crap and Tax is dead which means all this makey uppey bs is dead. The economy is on life support at this point With the US trapped in depression, this really is starting to feel like 1932 - Telegraph and the current leadership is taking the hit big time. Politically..........its on a cold slab. So all the number discussions, temperature discussions.............all fcukking moot.

But all you asshats keep on posting up sh!t about megawatts and solar ratios and pics of Bush.................



NOBODY CARES

 

[skookerasbil]

 

[skookerasbil]

‘Cap and Trade’ Loses Its Standing as Energy Policy of Choice
By JOHN M. BRODER
Published: March 25, 2010

( From the New York Times)

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/26/science/earth/26climate.html?_r=1




You fcukking jackasses.............might as well get a thread going for the purpose of debating the effects of people sitting around contemplating their navels!!!





Knock yourselves out s0ns!!!!

 

[skookerasbil]

CRAP AND TAX slams the middle class with taxes..........and Dems know the voters know it!!!


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123655590609066021.html

 

[skookerasbil]

this place would suCk without them..................

 

[Mr. Shaman]

This is a fascintating thread in the way it reveals the thinking of many of the people on this board. From those like Kookybill, rejecting the whole idea without the slightest knowledge of the technology or it's potential, to those that oppose it on the political grounds, in that it is normally associated with 'liberal environmentalists'.

Then we have the hard headed number crunchers, that right now reject this technology because it cannot show an immediate cost return. In spite of the fact that the cost curve on this power is downward, while that of fossil fuels are ever upward. Even without the externalized costs of fossil fuels.

Then those that are cautiously interested. Those are the people that count. They are not going to pay for something that does not have a return in a reasonable time, but they are not going to reject a new technology on the basis of someone's political perceptions or luddite leanings.

In the last five years, I have seen the costs of solar drop by a factor of five, efficiencies jump from a top of 14% to 24%. In the next five, we will see an even greater increase in efficiency, and a drop of a factor of 3.

.....And, even 3 is (merely) a random-number!!!!!

I've been a fan for 30+ years. My wife (at-the-time) & I had our 3 solar hot-water panels installed, back in '79 (after taking-advantage o' Jimmy Carter's solar-install-credits; Boulder County, CO). The four-of-us (her, myself & two-kids) could take showers, back-to-back, and never run-outta hot-water!! Hell, the heat (generated) even boosted the water-pressure! It was a drain-back system; the heat-exchange/panels/closed-system only used distilled-water.

Since then, it seems.....no matter what the target-date/factor/etc. .....someone always manages to come-in ahead-of-schedule.....and, those changes/improvements seem to be coming faster, all-the-time!!

 

[Old Rocks]

Well, this is an interesting experiment. As the cost of the cells come down, we will see a lot more of this.

Oregon Solar Highway - Pavement Interactive

The Oregon Solar Highway is the United States' first solar highway project. It is located south of Portland, OR. Energy produced by this facility feeds into the grid during the daytime, while energy flows to the facility at night, in order to power the interchange lights. The same rate is used for the purchase and sale of electricity produced or consumed at the facility, through a purchase agreement with Portland General Electric.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

This is a fascintating thread in the way it reveals the thinking of many of the people on this board. From those like Kookybill, rejecting the whole idea without the slightest knowledge of the technology or it's potential, to those that oppose it on the political grounds, in that it is normally associated with 'liberal environmentalists'.

Then we have the hard headed number crunchers, that right now reject this technology because it cannot show an immediate cost return. In spite of the fact that the cost curve on this power is downward, while that of fossil fuels are ever upward. Even without the externalized costs of fossil fuels.

Then those that are cautiously interested. Those are the people that count. They are not going to pay for something that does not have a return in a reasonable time, but they are not going to reject a new technology on the basis of someone's political perceptions or luddite leanings.

In the last five years, I have seen the costs of solar drop by a factor of five, efficiencies jump from a top of 14% to 24%. In the next five, we will see an even greater increase in efficiency, and a drop of a factor of 3.

All of us have solar in our future, whether as individual installations, or installations by our utilities. The major question is whether we will manufacturing it ourselves, or buying from others.

LOL s0n.........you post up about 1,000 posts a year on technology this.........technology that...........and its all theoretical bullshit when it gets down to brass tacks.

Lemme guess......your family dumped all o' their savings into the buggy-whip industry, right around the beginning o' The Industrial Revolution, huh??

Get over it.

Things CHANGE!!!!!!!

(.....And, Luddites STILL aren't cool. )​

 

[Quantum Windbag]

When evaluating the REAL cost of energy one must include the cost of attain that energy (including the cost of making the equipment, or to find the sources of it) as well as the cost of the POLLUTION that using that form of energy.

And it's that second part, the cost of the pollution, where our economics is (I think) missing the real cost of hydrocarbons.

I don't believe exploiting hydrocarbons IS really a cheaper energy source. (easier to find and explot, yes)

I just think that most of their TOTAL costs have as yet not been QUANTIFIED correctly.

What is the cost, for example, of the disaster in the Gulf?

What is the cost, for example, of spewing crap into the air?

We can't quantify those costs very accurately, and mostly we don't want to quantify those costs AT ALL.

There's NO FREE lunch when it comes to producing or tapping energy, folks.

At this point in time the manufacture of green energy requires the use of hydrocarbon based energy.

That's what you've heard, huh???

​

How did they make all those mirrors and build that tower, magic?

 

[Old Rocks]

At one time the manufacture of automobiles required parts brought in on horse drawn wagons. Your point is?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Well, this is an interesting experiment. As the cost of the cells come down, we will see a lot more of this.

Oregon Solar Highway - Pavement Interactive

The Oregon Solar Highway is the United States' first solar highway project. It is located south of Portland, OR. Energy produced by this facility feeds into the grid during the daytime, while energy flows to the facility at night, in order to power the interchange lights. The same rate is used for the purchase and sale of electricity produced or consumed at the facility, through a purchase agreement with Portland General Electric.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk0dBZ1meio&feature=related]YouTube - Getting Better- The Beatles[/ame]

*

 

[Mr. Shaman]

At this point in time the manufacture of green energy requires the use of hydrocarbon based energy.

That's what you've heard, huh???

​

How did they make all those mirrors and build that tower, magic?

I give up (not having been there).....how?​

 

[skookerasbil]

​

Well, this is an interesting experiment. As the cost of the cells come down, we will see a lot more of this.

Oregon Solar Highway - Pavement Interactive

The Oregon Solar Highway is the United States' first solar highway project. It is located south of Portland, OR. Energy produced by this facility feeds into the grid during the daytime, while energy flows to the facility at night, in order to power the interchange lights. The same rate is used for the purchase and sale of electricity produced or consumed at the facility, through a purchase agreement with Portland General Electric.

Oregon???!!! WTF s0n..........nobody cares about Oregon. Might as well be Bumfook USA you're talking.............
More cars travel on 495 in two weeks then they do in a whole fcukking year on highways in Oregon. Of course that sh!t works in Oregon. HAPPY NOW!!!

 

[GWV5903]

Skull, both KissMy and I posted sites where you can buy the panels for $1.20 a watt. Differant sites and sources.

And what about the cost of installation?

Buying the panels is only half the battle.

Why should the cost of installing panels be anymore than installing a roof?

The point is that the material and installation costs should be justified, over time, when your utility costs disappear.

HOWEVER: If this is such a great deal, the why aren't all builders offering new homes with solar panel roofs? As it is, few even offer them as an option.

Here is an example......

A 1 KW set up retails for $15K, builder cost roughly $10K, 2.1KW is in the $22K retail and $16K to $17K in cost, the 2.1KW system is the way to go....

In the Houston area we have an entire community dedicated to solar, good looking deal, competitive lot cost, very good school district and in a highly desirable area. The cost marketed to the consumer is roughly $14K more than a Energy Star Home and you get a EFL Home (Environments For Living is a little tighter home, 15 vs 14 SEER AC Unit, CFL's vs incandescent bulbs and Vinyl vs Aluminum windows) plus the IRS gives you a $4,500 Tax Credit for purchasing the home with Solar Panels, BTW there is no incentive for the builder other than the sale of a home.....

This community is average at best for sales, the real challenge is getting it affordable in lower price points, which is very hard to do.....

 

[logical4u]

Solar energy is going to be a trillion dollar market and will create hundreds of thousands of jobs. The Chinese are poised to capture that market. We should not ignore it.

Then why are the Chinese currently building a power infrastructure of hydro, coal, and nuclear powered plants? Maybe the Chinese know when the sun goes down, people still want to use electricity (and there are not enough batteries in the country to support one city through an entire night). Spain did this; they invested BAM in solar energy, now they are going broke with not to much to show for it. Don't be a sucker. Until there are some real advancement made, coal and nuclear power in the least expensive and most efficient. If you want your energy bill to triple (or more), then support the non-leader in DC.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

At one time the manufacture of automobiles required parts brought in on horse drawn wagons. Your point is?

I was addressing someones claim that alternative energz is automatically cleaner than petroleum based energy.

 

[Big Fitz]

SOLAR ENERGY IS BACK AT THE WHITE HOUSE

Again, nice linky showing:

With little fanfare, the Bush administration has installed three solarenergy systems on the grounds of the White House.

Has Obama done anything...?? HMMMM???...

Yeah.....he's putin' a lil' science-project together.....

"GOLLY, Daddy!!! It looks bigger'n MINE!!!!!"​

Figured out Bush isn't president anymore yet Shaman?

 

[Samson]

SOLAR ENERGY IS BACK AT THE WHITE HOUSE

Again, nice linky showing:

With little fanfare, the Bush administration has installed three solarenergy systems on the grounds of the White House.

Has Obama done anything...?? HMMMM???...

Yeah.....he's putin' a lil' science-project together.....

"GOLLY, Daddy!!! It looks bigger'n MINE!!!!!"​

Pretty impressive response: If you can't answer the question about Obama, deflect it with a pic of Bush.

Keep that up for the next two years.

Please.