The collapse of Germany's solar and wind industry!!

[jc456]

i did; it helps if you have a valid argument, instead of simply wasting time=money.

I see how valuable your time is via your posts.

nobody takes the right wing seriously about economics.

Left wing economics just placed 9.7 trillion dollars in debt on us in 8 years.. Your in no position to claim the high road on this..

bailing out, right wing, legacy programs. yes, we do have the high road.

your right wing fantasy of an actual Invasion of the Middle East, was a waste of taxpayer monies.

or not!

 

[jc456]

an upgraded, state-of-the-art grid, can make renewables, more cost effective.

s0n......not gonna happen. Like I said in an earlier post........for governments, its all about costs. Costs to the consumer. Germany went full swing into renewables, especially wind in the last 10 years but has gone big on coal imports in the last few years. Why? Because the German people started getting their electric bills and they freaked out. Building transmission lines are mega-expensive and always left out of the cost equation by members of the AGW religion. Too, maximum effective use of these things is 30 years before replacement.........many experts think that timeline is not realistic.

Hey but don't take my word for it...........go look at the Obama EIA projections for renewables 30 years from now = a joke. Combined still will sit at 10%-11% with most of that being hydro.

Renewables will continue to be a green fantasy but stick around just enough for the profit takers to line their pockets. Politicians like keeping their jobs.........they get the boot when the constituents have their electric bills doubling. That's the way it is..........fossil fuels will dominate the energy landscape for decades no matter what the science says. Bogus statistics on costs of renewables are plentiful. But when you take a close look, you end up realizing how laughable it really is. One thing will ALWAYS determine the future of energy": costs.

 

[jc456]

Y'all have, nothing but fallacy to work with; that is what is so funny.

Then prove it, you have been challenged, as you say it is all fallacy. That makes your task easy. So go back and make your point on all those posts we have challenged you on, thus far you have only hit the "funny" tag. Support what you contend.

we need to upgrade our grid to better implement renewables, wherever they may be found.

or not

 

[jc456]

we need to upgrade our grid to better implement renewables, wherever they may be found.

Renewables fail everywhere they are.

 

[elektra]

Nope; the root
the right finds it more lucrative to manufacture weapons of mass destruction.

That would be Roosevelt and Truman, who built the bomb and dropped it. Nice Democrats they are? And of course lets not forget Kennedy and Johnson who sold the fisrt weapons to Israel. Basically, the defence industry has always profited from Democrats in power. Rhode Island and Connecticut ate Democrat states that build our nuclear submarines. Yes, Democrats are the builders of weapons of mass destruction.

 

[elektra]

dear; renewables cannot fail, they are renewable. unlike, fossil fuels.

first and foremost, my avatar is of a record label, not a greek goddess, when you assume something based on your lack of experience, you inevitably make a mistake. Renewables are not renewable. Technically, a Wind Turbine has a life that is only 10 years at the most, lately more like 5 years. Same with Solar, commercial panels burn out quickly and need replacing. That is not renewable, you are using a finite source of materials and fuel to power the heavy industry used to build millions of solar panels and millions of wind turbines. Renewable? Wrong name for a product made from fossil fuels.

 

[flacaltenn]

LOL At present, there is little storage on the grid. So if that much electricity was produced by wind, it was used. And, were you correct about the number of days, it could not have been used.

A lot of wind power, and more being installed as we post.

I am correct. I've looked exhaustingly at the statistics produced by wind farms all over the world. Majority of generation occurs in about 10% of the days online. It's as much of a solid fact as the fact that the capacity numbers you just posted are SIMILAR BullCrap. The effective generation is about 1/3 of those numbers. 1/3 of what you bought. 1/3 of the placard on the side on the turbine.

You're a sucker for numbers and hype....

 

[Unkotare]

dear; renewables cannot fail, they are renewable. unlike, fossil fuels.

first and foremost, my avatar is of a record label, not a greek goddess, when you assume something based on your lack of experience, you inevitably make a mistake. ...

YOU should keep that in mind. It's a good point.

 

[Skull Pilot]

"The U.S. is indeed the fastest developed growth market for solar globally and in 2016 will be the highest growth market overall," said Mohit Anand, GTM's senior analyst for Global Solar Market

U.S. set to smash solar power records this year

No new coal plants at all. Wind and solar account for over 68% of all new generation in 2015.

Still haven't learned that generation capacity and actual output are not the same things huh?

Wind only produces on average less than 30% of its nominal capacity

And yet the utilities are putting up gigawatts of wind, and no coal fired at all. And gigawatts of solar. You think they don't know the ratio of rated production to actual production? They are putting up both solar and wind because the real production of both at present prices make them cheaper per kw/hr of electricity than coal or even natural gas. And they are not dependent on further infrastructure, such as pipelines and railroad. And the price of wind and the sun does not change dependent on the market.

Why the Texas wind boom may be an outlier rather than a model for the wind industry in the rest of the U.S.

Energy
The One and Only Texas Wind Boom
Wind power has transformed the heart of fossil-fuel country. Can the rest of the United States follow suit?

• by Richard Martin
  
• October 3, 2016

Rolan Petty stabbed at the dirt with a boot toe and looked up at the broiling west Texas sun. “I call it farming on faith,” he said of his unirrigated cotton farm. “You just have faith that the rain is gonna come.”

If it doesn’t come, Petty has a backup income stream: leasing fees. All around us, towering 150 feet over Petty’s combine and the scrubby-looking cotton plants in neat rows, stood a forest of wind turbines that stretched to the horizon. Petty’s land on the arid plain of west Texas lies on the edge of the vast Horse Hollow wind farm, with 430 turbines spread over 73 square miles. It was the largest wind farm in the world when it was completed, in 2006. Petty’s family leases land to Horse Hollow and another wind farm in the area, making about $7,500 a year on each of the several dozen turbines on their property. Wind power has become a big windfall for the Pettys, as it has for many landowners in Texas—allowing Rolan and his parents and three brothers to make hundreds of thousands of dollars every year whether the rains come or not. And the Petty farm is just a small player in the largest renewable-energy boom the United States has ever seen.

A turbine at the Horse Hollow wind farm.
With nearly 18,000 megawatts of capacity, Texas, if it were a country, would be the sixth-largest generator of wind power in the world, right behind Spain. Now Texas is preparing to add several thousand megawatts more—roughly equal to the wind capacity that can be found in all of California. Most of these turbines are in west Texas, one of the most desolate and windy regions in the continental United States. Fifteen years ago, when the groundwork for this boom was being set, this area had little but cotton and grain farms, oil fields, scrub and dry riverbeds, and small towns that were mostly withering.

Today it’s a land of spindly white turbines that line the highways—and the pockets of landowners. At night, when the wind blows strongest and steadiest, if you stand out in one of the fields you can hear the great blades make a ghostly shoop-shoop sound as they turn. Wind power has brought prosperity to towns that were literally drying up less than a generation ago. “In the 2011 drought a lot of people around here would have filed for bankruptcy if not for the turbines,” said Russ Petty, one of Rolan’s brothers, who was giving me a driving tour of the property. “What it’s done is helped keep this land in the family.”

Yeah they are doing it for the subsidies

Wind-Energy Sector Gets $176 Billion Worth of Crony Capitalism

Germany also had put up gigawatts of wind if you are talking rated capacity but the system is a failure and can't meet the power demands
The same thing happened in the UK

And like I keep telling you installed capacity is not the same thing as actual output

We know the average output of wind is less than 30% of its rated nominal capacity

National Wind Watch | Output From Industrial Wind Power

Industry estimates project an annual output of 30-40%, but real-world experience shows that annual outputs of 15-30% of capacity are more typical.

 

[elektra]

dear; renewables cannot fail, they are renewable. unlike, fossil fuels.

first and foremost, my avatar is of a record label, not a greek goddess, when you assume something based on your lack of experience, you inevitably make a mistake. ...

YOU should keep that in mind. It's a good point.

Yea, I will remind you of it, frequently, seeings how you seem to know nothing.

 

[elektra]

"The U.S. is indeed the fastest developed growth market for solar globally and in 2016 will be the highest growth market overall," said Mohit Anand, GTM's senior analyst for Global Solar Market

U.S. set to smash solar power records this year

No new coal plants at all. Wind and solar account for over 68% of all new generation in 2015.

Still haven't learned that generation capacity and actual output are not the same things huh?

Wind only produces on average less than 30% of its nominal capacity

And yet the utilities are putting up gigawatts of wind, and no coal fired at all. And gigawatts of solar. You think they don't know the ratio of rated production to actual production? They are putting up both solar and wind because the real production of both at present prices make them cheaper per kw/hr of electricity than coal or even natural gas. And they are not dependent on further infrastructure, such as pipelines and railroad. And the price of wind and the sun does not change dependent on the market.

Why the Texas wind boom may be an outlier rather than a model for the wind industry in the rest of the U.S.

Energy
The One and Only Texas Wind Boom
Wind power has transformed the heart of fossil-fuel country. Can the rest of the United States follow suit?

• by Richard Martin
  
• October 3, 2016

Rolan Petty stabbed at the dirt with a boot toe and looked up at the broiling west Texas sun. “I call it farming on faith,” he said of his unirrigated cotton farm. “You just have faith that the rain is gonna come.”

If it doesn’t come, Petty has a backup income stream: leasing fees. All around us, towering 150 feet over Petty’s combine and the scrubby-looking cotton plants in neat rows, stood a forest of wind turbines that stretched to the horizon. Petty’s land on the arid plain of west Texas lies on the edge of the vast Horse Hollow wind farm, with 430 turbines spread over 73 square miles. It was the largest wind farm in the world when it was completed, in 2006. Petty’s family leases land to Horse Hollow and another wind farm in the area, making about $7,500 a year on each of the several dozen turbines on their property. Wind power has become a big windfall for the Pettys, as it has for many landowners in Texas—allowing Rolan and his parents and three brothers to make hundreds of thousands of dollars every year whether the rains come or not. And the Petty farm is just a small player in the largest renewable-energy boom the United States has ever seen.

A turbine at the Horse Hollow wind farm.
With nearly 18,000 megawatts of capacity, Texas, if it were a country, would be the sixth-largest generator of wind power in the world, right behind Spain. Now Texas is preparing to add several thousand megawatts more—roughly equal to the wind capacity that can be found in all of California. Most of these turbines are in west Texas, one of the most desolate and windy regions in the continental United States. Fifteen years ago, when the groundwork for this boom was being set, this area had little but cotton and grain farms, oil fields, scrub and dry riverbeds, and small towns that were mostly withering.

Today it’s a land of spindly white turbines that line the highways—and the pockets of landowners. At night, when the wind blows strongest and steadiest, if you stand out in one of the fields you can hear the great blades make a ghostly shoop-shoop sound as they turn. Wind power has brought prosperity to towns that were literally drying up less than a generation ago. “In the 2011 drought a lot of people around here would have filed for bankruptcy if not for the turbines,” said Russ Petty, one of Rolan’s brothers, who was giving me a driving tour of the property. “What it’s done is helped keep this land in the family.”

Yeah they are doing it for the subsidies

Wind-Energy Sector Gets $176 Billion Worth of Crony Capitalism

Germany also had put up gigawatts of wind if you are talking rated capacity but the system is a failure and can't meet the power demands
The same thing happened in the UK

And like I keep telling you installed capacity is not the same thing as actual output

We know the average output of wind is less than 30% of its rated nominal capacity

National Wind Watch | Output From Industrial Wind Power

Industry estimates project an annual output of 30-40%, but real-world experience shows that annual outputs of 15-30% of capacity are more typical.

Lets not forget an additional 50% power loss due to distance from the consumers

 

[Unkotare]

dear; renewables cannot fail, they are renewable. unlike, fossil fuels.

first and foremost, my avatar is of a record label, not a greek goddess, when you assume something based on your lack of experience, you inevitably make a mistake. ...

YOU should keep that in mind. It's a good point.

Yea, I will remind you of it, frequently, seeings how you seem to know nothing.

For example?

 

[elektra]

For example?

For example, you are a troll, obviously you have no facts to add here or there, so you troll. Your next response typically will be to demand facts of me or others, and then reply, "no its not".

 

[Unkotare]

For example?

For example, you are a troll, obviously you have no facts to add here or there, so you troll. Your next response typically will be to demand facts of me or others, and then reply, "no its not".

So, you can't support your claim as usual.

 

[Billy_Bob]

"The U.S. is indeed the fastest developed growth market for solar globally and in 2016 will be the highest growth market overall," said Mohit Anand, GTM's senior analyst for Global Solar Market

U.S. set to smash solar power records this year

No new coal plants at all. Wind and solar account for over 68% of all new generation in 2015.

Still haven't learned that generation capacity and actual output are not the same things huh?

Wind only produces on average less than 30% of its nominal capacity

And yet the utilities are putting up gigawatts of wind, and no coal fired at all. And gigawatts of solar. You think they don't know the ratio of rated production to actual production? They are putting up both solar and wind because the real production of both at present prices make them cheaper per kw/hr of electricity than coal or even natural gas. And they are not dependent on further infrastructure, such as pipelines and railroad. And the price of wind and the sun does not change dependent on the market.

Why the Texas wind boom may be an outlier rather than a model for the wind industry in the rest of the U.S.

Energy
The One and Only Texas Wind Boom
Wind power has transformed the heart of fossil-fuel country. Can the rest of the United States follow suit?

• by Richard Martin
  
• October 3, 2016

Rolan Petty stabbed at the dirt with a boot toe and looked up at the broiling west Texas sun. “I call it farming on faith,” he said of his unirrigated cotton farm. “You just have faith that the rain is gonna come.”

If it doesn’t come, Petty has a backup income stream: leasing fees. All around us, towering 150 feet over Petty’s combine and the scrubby-looking cotton plants in neat rows, stood a forest of wind turbines that stretched to the horizon. Petty’s land on the arid plain of west Texas lies on the edge of the vast Horse Hollow wind farm, with 430 turbines spread over 73 square miles. It was the largest wind farm in the world when it was completed, in 2006. Petty’s family leases land to Horse Hollow and another wind farm in the area, making about $7,500 a year on each of the several dozen turbines on their property. Wind power has become a big windfall for the Pettys, as it has for many landowners in Texas—allowing Rolan and his parents and three brothers to make hundreds of thousands of dollars every year whether the rains come or not. And the Petty farm is just a small player in the largest renewable-energy boom the United States has ever seen.

A turbine at the Horse Hollow wind farm.
With nearly 18,000 megawatts of capacity, Texas, if it were a country, would be the sixth-largest generator of wind power in the world, right behind Spain. Now Texas is preparing to add several thousand megawatts more—roughly equal to the wind capacity that can be found in all of California. Most of these turbines are in west Texas, one of the most desolate and windy regions in the continental United States. Fifteen years ago, when the groundwork for this boom was being set, this area had little but cotton and grain farms, oil fields, scrub and dry riverbeds, and small towns that were mostly withering.

Today it’s a land of spindly white turbines that line the highways—and the pockets of landowners. At night, when the wind blows strongest and steadiest, if you stand out in one of the fields you can hear the great blades make a ghostly shoop-shoop sound as they turn. Wind power has brought prosperity to towns that were literally drying up less than a generation ago. “In the 2011 drought a lot of people around here would have filed for bankruptcy if not for the turbines,” said Russ Petty, one of Rolan’s brothers, who was giving me a driving tour of the property. “What it’s done is helped keep this land in the family.”

Yeah they are doing it for the subsidies

Wind-Energy Sector Gets $176 Billion Worth of Crony Capitalism

Germany also had put up gigawatts of wind if you are talking rated capacity but the system is a failure and can't meet the power demands
The same thing happened in the UK

And like I keep telling you installed capacity is not the same thing as actual output

We know the average output of wind is less than 30% of its rated nominal capacity

National Wind Watch | Output From Industrial Wind Power

Industry estimates project an annual output of 30-40%, but real-world experience shows that annual outputs of 15-30% of capacity are more typical.

Only about 17% of the time does a wind farm generate its capacity and is erratic at best. One of the windiest zones in the western US is the Laramie range in Wyoming (coincidentally the area where I work) and those systems rarely get above 17% for longer than 4 hours.

 

[danielpalos]

we need to upgrade our grid to better implement renewables, wherever they may be found.

If the grid needs to "upgraded" to implement renewables, that means renewables were forced on us when they were not ready.

the grid needs to be upgraded anyway; we might as well make it more, plug and play, friendly.

 

[danielpalos]

It hasn't failed and isn't failing. Technology is improving, all the time.

It has failed, increased tax dollars paying for it, higher electric bills, and bankrupt countries attest to this fact. Venuzuala case in point.

our war on terror doubled the price fuel; it isn't working.

America has been "energy independent" when it comes to the electrical grid for a century. Oil plays NO ROLE in "fueling the grid".. Rookie leftist error. The left doesn't know the basics of how your lights come on..

Peaking power plant--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaking_power_plant

That's only a coherent thought because I know so much about this topic, I can figure out how you googled that.

YES -- Solar is NOT an alternative. It's a PEAKER. The daytime summer demand peak on the grid is about 15 to 20% higher than the demand at 10PM at night. So with perhaps 10% solar, you could PERHAPS take down more MAINLINE plants for upgrades and maintenance and stuff like that. But you can't SHUT THEM DOWN because of solar - less days. And you can't ADD capacity to the grid with solar, because capacity has to be there 24/7/365.

Now WIND -- doesn't even qualify as a PEAKER and it's NOT an Alternative. Because it's not working much at GRID PEAK demand times.

nobody is claiming alternative energies can handle our loads; we are merely balancing our energy portfolio.

 

[danielpalos]

we need to upgrade our grid to better implement renewables, wherever they may be found.

If the grid needs to "upgraded" to implement renewables, that means renewables were forced on us when they were not ready.

a better grid means it is easier to "plug and play" energy sources.

Cost of using renewables when THEY are ready to perform is idling perfectly good power plants that have employees and investors. And the cost of WASTED energy from the power-down/power-up cycles is NEVER properly added to cost of solar and wind.

In MOST BIG systems -- the excess energy is just DUMPED and wasted rather than cycling very expensive equipment. The "plug/play" catchword is just ANOTHER exaggeration of how simple all this is promulgated by folks who have no ******* idea how the lights come on.. .

we just need a better grid with more capacitance.

 

[flacaltenn]

we need to upgrade our grid to better implement renewables, wherever they may be found.

If the grid needs to "upgraded" to implement renewables, that means renewables were forced on us when they were not ready.

the grid needs to be upgraded anyway; we might as well make it more, plug and play, friendly.

There's the ole "plug and play" gambit yet again. Tell ya what. How about you design a "plug and play" hamster wheel to power a hospital?

The grid stability depends on CONTRACTS. So that utility companies know what theyre gonna get next Tuesday at 2PM. If you cannot guarantee a wind delivery, nobody is gonna kick off the PREFERRED and reliable suppliers to let the hamsters run for a couple hours...

 

[danielpalos]

Nope; the root
the right finds it more lucrative to manufacture weapons of mass destruction.

That would be Roosevelt and Truman, who built the bomb and dropped it. Nice Democrats they are? And of course lets not forget Kennedy and Johnson who sold the fisrt weapons to Israel. Basically, the defence industry has always profited from Democrats in power. Rhode Island and Connecticut ate Democrat states that build our nuclear submarines. Yes, Democrats are the builders of weapons of mass destruction.

nice try; the democrats enacted wartime tax rates.