Debate Now The Case for Reparations Goes Beyond Slavery....Pt.2

[Coyote]

On thinking about reparations, I’ve changed my mind on one thing. Reparations, to be both fair and represent the meaning of reparation, should be a one time thing. A public acknowledgement of wrongs, and a payment to qualifying individuals, where they can how to use that payment.

I am not so sure additional block grants that specifically racially based, as opposed grants to help impoverished communities in general.

 

[Coyote]

I think the guys at the Brookings are talking about a combination of things. I think block grants to black community development corporations for a specified number of years to build infrastructure and businesses in black communities that hire from those communities , free college or technical schools and a generational tax credit or 30 year tax abatement for black families can be done.

We're already entertaining the concept of "free" college and college debt pardons.. So you're not probably gonna get it if EVERYONE doesn't -- if at all..

Like the concept of block grants to black communities. But it requires buy-ins from industries and corporations to actually happen to any great degree.. If the money is administered LOCALLY, the larger half is gonna disappear from graft and corruption.. Where they would WORK is in basic infrastructure.. Education, public transit, financing better justice interfaces to the public in black communities..

Problem with block grants is that they are almost EXCLUSIVELY applicable to dense packed urban solutions.. Folks in rural and the 'burbs' would never get their fair share..

The most workable of those points would be tax abatement.. But just like the rest of all tax problems, you CANNOT do that equally and the RICH blacks would benefit more. Venus and Serena Williams are on Wheaties boxes, they do not NEED "tax abatement".. And in reality, folks on the edge of economic ruin DO NOT PAY any Fed taxes other than payroll FICA...

You are looking for excuses. Rich blacks have faced racism too. However income eligibility can be a part of all this to ease the minds of butthurt whites who have benefitted from government programs that blacks paid into and did not reap the benefits of.

Problem with block grants is that they are almost EXCLUSIVELY applicable to dense packed urban solutions.. Folks in rural and the 'burbs' would never get their fair share..

I think that is a valid point. There are many small town/rural black communities. How would they get a fair share?

Far too many people look for reasons why it can't be done. Not saying you are doing that Coyote but rules for eligibility can be attached to this. Like for example the grant could go to a CDC. Blacks could be taught in those small towns how to form a CDC and then they could become eligible for grants.

Remind me, what is a CDC?

 

[IM2]

I think the guys at the Brookings are talking about a combination of things. I think block grants to black community development corporations for a specified number of years to build infrastructure and businesses in black communities that hire from those communities , free college or technical schools and a generational tax credit or 30 year tax abatement for black families can be done.

We're already entertaining the concept of "free" college and college debt pardons.. So you're not probably gonna get it if EVERYONE doesn't -- if at all..

Like the concept of block grants to black communities. But it requires buy-ins from industries and corporations to actually happen to any great degree.. If the money is administered LOCALLY, the larger half is gonna disappear from graft and corruption.. Where they would WORK is in basic infrastructure.. Education, public transit, financing better justice interfaces to the public in black communities..

Problem with block grants is that they are almost EXCLUSIVELY applicable to dense packed urban solutions.. Folks in rural and the 'burbs' would never get their fair share..

The most workable of those points would be tax abatement.. But just like the rest of all tax problems, you CANNOT do that equally and the RICH blacks would benefit more. Venus and Serena Williams are on Wheaties boxes, they do not NEED "tax abatement".. And in reality, folks on the edge of economic ruin DO NOT PAY any Fed taxes other than payroll FICA...

You are looking for excuses. Rich blacks have faced racism too. However income eligibility can be a part of all this to ease the minds of butthurt whites who have benefitted from government programs that blacks paid into and did not reap the benefits of.

Problem with block grants is that they are almost EXCLUSIVELY applicable to dense packed urban solutions.. Folks in rural and the 'burbs' would never get their fair share..

I think that is a valid point. There are many small town/rural black communities. How would they get a fair share?

Far too many people look for reasons why it can't be done. Not saying you are doing that Coyote but rules for eligibility can be attached to this. Like for example the grant could go to a CDC. Blacks could be taught in those small towns how to form a CDC and then they could become eligible for grants.

Remind me, what is a CDC?

Community Development Corporation.

 

[Coyote]

I think the guys at the Brookings are talking about a combination of things. I think block grants to black community development corporations for a specified number of years to build infrastructure and businesses in black communities that hire from those communities , free college or technical schools and a generational tax credit or 30 year tax abatement for black families can be done.

We're already entertaining the concept of "free" college and college debt pardons.. So you're not probably gonna get it if EVERYONE doesn't -- if at all..

Like the concept of block grants to black communities. But it requires buy-ins from industries and corporations to actually happen to any great degree.. If the money is administered LOCALLY, the larger half is gonna disappear from graft and corruption.. Where they would WORK is in basic infrastructure.. Education, public transit, financing better justice interfaces to the public in black communities..

Problem with block grants is that they are almost EXCLUSIVELY applicable to dense packed urban solutions.. Folks in rural and the 'burbs' would never get their fair share..

The most workable of those points would be tax abatement.. But just like the rest of all tax problems, you CANNOT do that equally and the RICH blacks would benefit more. Venus and Serena Williams are on Wheaties boxes, they do not NEED "tax abatement".. And in reality, folks on the edge of economic ruin DO NOT PAY any Fed taxes other than payroll FICA...

You are looking for excuses. Rich blacks have faced racism too. However income eligibility can be a part of all this to ease the minds of butthurt whites who have benefitted from government programs that blacks paid into and did not reap the benefits of.

Just as an FYI, there are white ethnic groups who have faced discrimination, and did not benefit from programs they paid into, I am thinking of Appalachia. Calling them butthurt is marginalizing a valid sense of grievance.

 

[IM2]

On thinking about reparations, I’ve changed my mind on one thing. Reparations, to be both fair and represent the meaning of reparation, should be a one time thing. A public acknowledgement of wrongs, and a payment to qualifying individuals, where they can how to use that payment.

I am not so sure additional block grants that specifically racially based, as opposed grants to help impoverished communities in general.

It has to be targeted to blacks or nothing changes. This was the mistake made by Johnsons great society program and it's the same mistake trump has made with opportunity zones.

 

[Coyote]

I think the guys at the Brookings are talking about a combination of things. I think block grants to black community development corporations for a specified number of years to build infrastructure and businesses in black communities that hire from those communities , free college or technical schools and a generational tax credit or 30 year tax abatement for black families can be done.

We're already entertaining the concept of "free" college and college debt pardons.. So you're not probably gonna get it if EVERYONE doesn't -- if at all..

Like the concept of block grants to black communities. But it requires buy-ins from industries and corporations to actually happen to any great degree.. If the money is administered LOCALLY, the larger half is gonna disappear from graft and corruption.. Where they would WORK is in basic infrastructure.. Education, public transit, financing better justice interfaces to the public in black communities..

Problem with block grants is that they are almost EXCLUSIVELY applicable to dense packed urban solutions.. Folks in rural and the 'burbs' would never get their fair share..

The most workable of those points would be tax abatement.. But just like the rest of all tax problems, you CANNOT do that equally and the RICH blacks would benefit more. Venus and Serena Williams are on Wheaties boxes, they do not NEED "tax abatement".. And in reality, folks on the edge of economic ruin DO NOT PAY any Fed taxes other than payroll FICA...

You are looking for excuses. Rich blacks have faced racism too. However income eligibility can be a part of all this to ease the minds of butthurt whites who have benefitted from government programs that blacks paid into and did not reap the benefits of.

Problem with block grants is that they are almost EXCLUSIVELY applicable to dense packed urban solutions.. Folks in rural and the 'burbs' would never get their fair share..

I think that is a valid point. There are many small town/rural black communities. How would they get a fair share?

Far too many people look for reasons why it can't be done. Not saying you are doing that Coyote but rules for eligibility can be attached to this. Like for example the grant could go to a CDC. Blacks could be taught in those small towns how to form a CDC and then they could become eligible for grants.

Remind me, what is a CDC?

Community Development Corporation.

I strongly support community development, independent of reparations.

Improving infrastructure, safety, schools and the rate of home ownership.

 

[Coyote]

On thinking about reparations, I’ve changed my mind on one thing. Reparations, to be both fair and represent the meaning of reparation, should be a one time thing. A public acknowledgement of wrongs, and a payment to qualifying individuals, where they can how to use that payment.

I am not so sure additional block grants that specifically racially based, as opposed grants to help impoverished communities in general.

It has to be targeted to blacks or nothing changes. This was the mistake made by Johnsons great society program and it's the same mistake trump has made with opportunity zones.

A one time individual payment, not limited by one’s income, would satisfy that. Those already wealthy could choose to use it to invest into communities.

 

[IM2]

I think the guys at the Brookings are talking about a combination of things. I think block grants to black community development corporations for a specified number of years to build infrastructure and businesses in black communities that hire from those communities , free college or technical schools and a generational tax credit or 30 year tax abatement for black families can be done.

We're already entertaining the concept of "free" college and college debt pardons.. So you're not probably gonna get it if EVERYONE doesn't -- if at all..

Like the concept of block grants to black communities. But it requires buy-ins from industries and corporations to actually happen to any great degree.. If the money is administered LOCALLY, the larger half is gonna disappear from graft and corruption.. Where they would WORK is in basic infrastructure.. Education, public transit, financing better justice interfaces to the public in black communities..

Problem with block grants is that they are almost EXCLUSIVELY applicable to dense packed urban solutions.. Folks in rural and the 'burbs' would never get their fair share..

The most workable of those points would be tax abatement.. But just like the rest of all tax problems, you CANNOT do that equally and the RICH blacks would benefit more. Venus and Serena Williams are on Wheaties boxes, they do not NEED "tax abatement".. And in reality, folks on the edge of economic ruin DO NOT PAY any Fed taxes other than payroll FICA...

You are looking for excuses. Rich blacks have faced racism too. However income eligibility can be a part of all this to ease the minds of butthurt whites who have benefitted from government programs that blacks paid into and did not reap the benefits of.

Just as an FYI, there are white ethnic groups who have faced discrimination, and did not benefit from programs they paid into, I am thinking of Appalachia. Calling them butthurt is marginalizing a valid sense of grievance.

My mother grew up in Harlan Kentucky. Whites had it far better there than did blacks. But the decline of coal has hurt that area badly. I was mainly talking about flacaltenn because he alway has excuses.

 

[Coyote]

I don’t know all that much Johnson’s Great Society except very generally. It was put forth, however, during an era where there was still a lot of racist policies (both on and under the table) that prevented black communities from benefiting fairly. That is no longer the case though.

 

[Coyote]

I think the guys at the Brookings are talking about a combination of things. I think block grants to black community development corporations for a specified number of years to build infrastructure and businesses in black communities that hire from those communities , free college or technical schools and a generational tax credit or 30 year tax abatement for black families can be done.

We're already entertaining the concept of "free" college and college debt pardons.. So you're not probably gonna get it if EVERYONE doesn't -- if at all..

Like the concept of block grants to black communities. But it requires buy-ins from industries and corporations to actually happen to any great degree.. If the money is administered LOCALLY, the larger half is gonna disappear from graft and corruption.. Where they would WORK is in basic infrastructure.. Education, public transit, financing better justice interfaces to the public in black communities..

Problem with block grants is that they are almost EXCLUSIVELY applicable to dense packed urban solutions.. Folks in rural and the 'burbs' would never get their fair share..

The most workable of those points would be tax abatement.. But just like the rest of all tax problems, you CANNOT do that equally and the RICH blacks would benefit more. Venus and Serena Williams are on Wheaties boxes, they do not NEED "tax abatement".. And in reality, folks on the edge of economic ruin DO NOT PAY any Fed taxes other than payroll FICA...

You are looking for excuses. Rich blacks have faced racism too. However income eligibility can be a part of all this to ease the minds of butthurt whites who have benefitted from government programs that blacks paid into and did not reap the benefits of.

Just as an FYI, there are white ethnic groups who have faced discrimination, and did not benefit from programs they paid into, I am thinking of Appalachia. Calling them butthurt is marginalizing a valid sense of grievance.

My mother grew up in Harlan Kentucky. Whites had it far better there than did blacks. But the decline of coal has hurt that area badly. I was mainly talking about flacaltenn because he alway has excuses.

Ahh, that is very poor area. But excuses can also valid challenges for how things may or may not work.

My mind is not entirely made up on this because there are a number of severely disadvantaged groups in this country who would not be owed reparations yet are stuck in dangerous, run down communities with crap schools and limited options, along with black people. IMO, at this point, this should be something seperate from reparation.

 

[IM2]

I think the guys at the Brookings are talking about a combination of things. I think block grants to black community development corporations for a specified number of years to build infrastructure and businesses in black communities that hire from those communities , free college or technical schools and a generational tax credit or 30 year tax abatement for black families can be done.

We're already entertaining the concept of "free" college and college debt pardons.. So you're not probably gonna get it if EVERYONE doesn't -- if at all..

Like the concept of block grants to black communities. But it requires buy-ins from industries and corporations to actually happen to any great degree.. If the money is administered LOCALLY, the larger half is gonna disappear from graft and corruption.. Where they would WORK is in basic infrastructure.. Education, public transit, financing better justice interfaces to the public in black communities..

Problem with block grants is that they are almost EXCLUSIVELY applicable to dense packed urban solutions.. Folks in rural and the 'burbs' would never get their fair share..

The most workable of those points would be tax abatement.. But just like the rest of all tax problems, you CANNOT do that equally and the RICH blacks would benefit more. Venus and Serena Williams are on Wheaties boxes, they do not NEED "tax abatement".. And in reality, folks on the edge of economic ruin DO NOT PAY any Fed taxes other than payroll FICA...

You are looking for excuses. Rich blacks have faced racism too. However income eligibility can be a part of all this to ease the minds of butthurt whites who have benefitted from government programs that blacks paid into and did not reap the benefits of.

Problem with block grants is that they are almost EXCLUSIVELY applicable to dense packed urban solutions.. Folks in rural and the 'burbs' would never get their fair share..

I think that is a valid point. There are many small town/rural black communities. How would they get a fair share?

Far too many people look for reasons why it can't be done. Not saying you are doing that Coyote but rules for eligibility can be attached to this. Like for example the grant could go to a CDC. Blacks could be taught in those small towns how to form a CDC and then they could become eligible for grants.

Remind me, what is a CDC?

Community Development Corporation.

I strongly support community development, independent of reparations.

Improving infrastructure, safety, schools and the rate of home ownership.

I think the issue of reparations has been conflated. In a relatively recent case Native Americans were awarded land and cash as result of the Dawes Act.. Nobody here was alive when the Dawes act was passed including those Native Americans. And one of the cruelest things I have seen in this regard were reparations paid by check each month to white descendants of confederate soldiers. These payments started 90 years after the civil war ended and lasted until at least 2017. I am not accusing you of anything Coyote, just providing information about reparation that our government has paid and how they were distributed.

 

[IM2]

I don’t know all that much Johnson’s Great Society except very generally. It was put forth, however, during an era where there was still a lot of racist policies (both on and under the table) that prevented black communities from benefiting fairly. That is no longer the case though.

Actually it still is the case Coyote. It's just not so overt.

 

[IM2]

On thinking about reparations, I’ve changed my mind on one thing. Reparations, to be both fair and represent the meaning of reparation, should be a one time thing. A public acknowledgement of wrongs, and a payment to qualifying individuals, where they can how to use that payment.

I am not so sure additional block grants that specifically racially based, as opposed grants to help impoverished communities in general.

It has to be targeted to blacks or nothing changes. This was the mistake made by Johnsons great society program and it's the same mistake trump has made with opportunity zones.

A one time individual payment, not limited by one’s income, would satisfy that. Those already wealthy could choose to use it to invest into communities.

We are talking about a minimum 14 trillion dollar payment. That would be about 300,000 per person. This money would make a difference. But since whites own most of the businesses, the smart thing is to provide 100,000 to each person then use the other 200,000 per person for community and economic development. Now I understand that there are poor who were screwed in other groups, but aside from Native Americans other groups have not endured what blacks have.

And again this is the problem in discussing this issue. There were white coal miners in Appalachia were members of the klan. My mother had to get off the sidewalk in Harlan when whites walked on it. A white girl made my aunt stand there while she spit in her mouth. My mother beat that girl severely. The only thing that saved them was my grandmother was the only teacher at the black school. There just aren't any equivalences to be made here. Certainly more should be done for the poor of all races but the poor of all races did not and really have not, had things imposed upon them that blacks have had.

 

[IM2]

This is an Invite Only thread. If your member name does not appear in the alert call list -- DO NOT POST HERE -- do not even use the rating buttons on posts in this thread.

 

[OldLady]

My mind is not entirely made up on this because there are a number of severely disadvantaged groups in this country who would not be owed reparations yet are stuck in dangerous, run down communities with crap schools and limited options, along with black people. IMO, at this point, this should be something seperate from reparation.

When it comes to reparations to provide economic equality to black Americans, though, it seems clear that a rising tide does not lift all boats, at least not to an equal level. As I see it, reparations are partly an acknowledgement of wrongs, and partly an attempt to put blacks on an equal footing, economically. Unemployment for blacks was the lowest it had ever been prior to the Covid shutdowns, but it was still double that of white Americans. Although blacks have achieved a lot of gains in education, white Americans still on average have 10 times the wealth of black Americans. While grants and programs to alleviate poverty for all are a great idea, they will not take care of that stubborn problem of economic inequality. Only investment specifically in black communities can do that. Or so the economists say.

Here's a couple of articles that kick around different ideas for what reparations might look like and how they might work. Just for general information.

Why we need reparations for Black Americans | Brookings

Rashawn Ray and Andre Perry outline the history of reparations in the United States, missed opportunities to redress the racial wealth gap, and specific details for a viable reparations package for Black Americans.

www.brookings.edu

What Reparations for Slavery Might Look Like in 2019 (Published 2019)

The idea of economic amends for past injustices and persistent disparities is getting renewed attention. Here are some formulas for achieving the aim.

www.nytimes.com

 

[OldLady]

But what whites must understand is than individual checks must be part of this.

Okay. Question: How do those individual checks work? Say I am a black mom with three children. I am able to identify a slave ancestor and apply for reparations. Do my three children also receive checks?

 

[flacaltenn]

This is an Invite Only thread. If your member name does not appear in the alert call list -- DO NOT POST HERE -- do not even use the rating buttons on posts in this thread.

Debate Now - Trial for "Invite Only" threads in Structured Debate Forum

We are opening the Invite Only threads in this forum. You may continue to post threads under the OLD structured debate rules OR identify the thread as Invite Only as given in the auxiliary rules below.. READ THEM CAREFULLY. There have been a couple edits since the Announcement of the feature...

www.usmessageboard.com

There are way too many misguided and ignorant notions about reparations. Reparations would be demanded from the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT for policies enacted by the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT. The policies created by the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT were not done to exclude single individuals, nor did single individuals decide to implement the policies by themselves.

The rules-This is a policy discussion. We will discuss studies/laws/policies and the implications of such on black communities. Nothing else.

Kat
katsteve2012
NewsVine_Mariyam
MarcATL
Asclepias
flacaltenn
Crepitus
Dont Taz Me Bro
Erinwltr
OldLady
Paul Essen
Meister
Coyote

OK I'll do this again.
History of reparations in the United States
Reparations—a system of redress for egregious injustices—are not foreign to the United States. Native Americans have received land and billions of dollars for various benefits and programs for being forcibly exiled from their native lands. For Japanese Americans, $1.5 billion was paid to those who were interned during World War II. Additionally, the United States, via the Marshall Plan, helped to ensure that Jews received reparations for the Holocaust, including making various investments over time. In 1952, West Germany agreed to pay 3.45 billion Deutsche Marks to Holocaust survivors.

Black Americans are the only group that has not received reparations for state-sanctioned racial discrimination, while slavery afforded some white families the ability to accrue tremendous wealth. And, we must note that American slavery was particularly brutal. About 15 percent of the enslaved shipped from Western Africa died during transport. The enslaved were regularly beaten and lynched for frivolous infractions. Slavery also disrupted families as one in three marriages were split up and one in five children were separated from their parents. The case for reparations can be made on economic, social, and moral grounds. The United States had multiple opportunities to atone for slavery—each a missed chance to make the American Dream a reality—but has yet to undertake significant action.

Missed policy opportunities to atone for slavery with reparations
40 Acres and a Mule

The first major opportunity that the United States had and where it should have atoned for slavery was right after the Civil War. Union leaders including General William Sherman concluded that each Black family should receive 40 acres. Sherman signed Field Order 15 and allocated 400,000 acres of confiscated Confederate land to Black families. Additionally, some families were to receive mules left over from the war, hence 40 acres and a mule.

Yet, after President Abraham Lincoln’s assassination, President Andrew Johnson reversed Field Order 15 and returned land back to former slave owners. Instead of giving Blacks the means to support themselves, the federal government empowered former enslavers. For example, in Washington D.C., slave owners were actually paid reparations for lost property—the formally enslaved. This practice was also common in nearby states. Many Black Americans with limited work options returned as sharecroppers to till the same land for the very slave owners to whom they were once enslaved. Slave owners not only made money off the chattel enslavement of Black Americans, but they then made money multiple times over off the land that the formerly enslaved had no choice but to work.

The New Deal

There’s never a bad time to do what’s morally right, but the United States has had prime opportunities to atone for slavery. In the 1930s, the United States was reeling from the 1929 stock market crash and was firmly engulfed in the Great Depression. The Franklin Roosevelt administration implemented a series of policies as part of his New Deal legislation, estimated to cost roughly $50 billion then, to catapult the country out of depression. Current estimates price the New Deal at about $50 trillion.

Two particular policies of the New Deal fell short in redressing American’s racial wrongs—the G.I. Bill and Social Security. Though white and Black Americans fought in WWII, Black veterans could not redeem their post-war benefits like their white peers. While the G.I. Bill was mandated federally, it was implemented locally. The presence of racial housing covenants and redlining among local municipalities prohibited Blacks from utilizing federal benefits. White soldiers were afforded the opportunity to build wealth by sending themselves and their children to college and by obtaining housing and small business grants.

Regarding Social Security, two key professions that would have improved equity in America were excluded from the legislation—domestic and farm workers. These omissions effectively excluded 60 percent of Blacks across the U.S. and 75 percent in southern states who worked in these occupations. Roosevelt bargained these exclusionary provisions in the legislation on the backs of Black veterans and workers in order to propel mostly white America out of the Great Depression.

There are other policies and practices that contributed to racial wealth gap. Government-sanctioned discrimination related to the 1862 Homestead Act, redlining, restrictive covenants, and convict leasing blocked Blacks from the ability to gain wealth at similar rates as whites. Separate from slavery, damages should be awarded to Black people who were harmed by these policies and practices.

Why we need reparations for Black Americans | Brookings

Rashawn Ray and Andre Perry outline the history of reparations in the United States, missed opportunities to redress the racial wealth gap, and specific details for a viable reparations package for Black Americans.

www.brookings.edu

Pretty depressing picture of the past -- but accurate in facts.. Some of the assertions however, aren't that clear..

Trying to reparate while the dishonor and offenses ARE STILL ACCUMULATING just isn't practical.. At the time of New Deal -- it would be over 40 years before the FUNDAMENTAL govt issues with Civil Rights would begin to be resolved. So damages were ACCRUING faster than a one time payment during the New Deal would have fixed..

Similar logical failings on the GI bill housing issues. The war itself was an awakening of racial disparity and justice. But it took another decade or so for that to sink in because of all the post war trauma that had to be resolved. Main point on GI bill is that it should NEVER have been considered as reparations, because those payments were DUE AND PAYABLE at time of discharge for service and valor. Would NEVER be reparations beyond the service for which it was awarded.. Reparations would be in EXCESS of those benefits..

Housing covenants still linger today, but are now unenforceable. And in most of these cases, its ALL COMPLETELY GOVERNMENT failures to "do the right thing" not a collective debt from the general public who then and now -- have little REAL effect on political reform because of the priorities of politicians and parties...

These are excuses flacaltenn. The government made the laws and you cannot excuse this with your attempt to try separating the government from the general public.

You didn't read or did not understand any of the points I made about the TIMING of reparations with respect to the comments in the OP about the "new deal" or WW2 GI benefits...

You reply just repeats the OBVIOUS that I wrote to you.. That GOVERNMENT remained racist in America for 100 years AFTER the Civil War... You cannot "pay the bill for damages" while a HUNDRED YEARS of damages are STILL ACCRUING !!!!

And I told you that this government neglect of immorality is NOT the people's responsibility because the GOVERNMENT stopped being responsive to the people decades ago...

 

[IM2]

My mind is not entirely made up on this because there are a number of severely disadvantaged groups in this country who would not be owed reparations yet are stuck in dangerous, run down communities with crap schools and limited options, along with black people. IMO, at this point, this should be something seperate from reparation.

When it comes to reparations to provide economic equality to black Americans, though, it seems clear that a rising tide does not lift all boats, at least not to an equal level. As I see it, reparations are partly an acknowledgement of wrongs, and partly an attempt to put blacks on an equal footing, economically. Unemployment for blacks was the lowest it had ever been prior to the Covid shutdowns, but it was still double that of white Americans. Although blacks have achieved a lot of gains in education, white Americans still on average have 10 times the wealth of black Americans. While grants and programs to alleviate poverty for all are a great idea, they will not take care of that stubborn problem of economic inequality. Only investment specifically in black communities can do that. Or so the economists say.

Here's a couple of articles that kick around different ideas for what reparations might look like and how they might work. Just for general information.

Why we need reparations for Black Americans | Brookings

Rashawn Ray and Andre Perry outline the history of reparations in the United States, missed opportunities to redress the racial wealth gap, and specific details for a viable reparations package for Black Americans.

www.brookings.edu

What Reparations for Slavery Might Look Like in 2019 (Published 2019)

The idea of economic amends for past injustices and persistent disparities is getting renewed attention. Here are some formulas for achieving the aim.

www.nytimes.com

My op is:

Why we need reparations for Black Americans | Brookings

Rashawn Ray and Andre Perry outline the history of reparations in the United States, missed opportunities to redress the racial wealth gap, and specific details for a viable reparations package for Black Americans.

www.brookings.edu

Cash payments are part and I have to wonder why all the confusion and inability to understand? You aren't going to get to economic equality by just targeting money to projects. Blacks are going to need to have the ability to buy homes and other assets which can only happen with a direct cash payment.

 

[IM2]

But what whites must understand is than individual checks must be part of this.

Okay. Question: How do those individual checks work? Say I am a black mom with three children. I am able to identify a slave ancestor and apply for reparations. Do my three children also receive checks?

Since reparations would not be just for slavery, there would probably need to be a family max payment

 

[IM2]

This is an Invite Only thread. If your member name does not appear in the alert call list -- DO NOT POST HERE -- do not even use the rating buttons on posts in this thread.

Debate Now - Trial for "Invite Only" threads in Structured Debate Forum

We are opening the Invite Only threads in this forum. You may continue to post threads under the OLD structured debate rules OR identify the thread as Invite Only as given in the auxiliary rules below.. READ THEM CAREFULLY. There have been a couple edits since the Announcement of the feature...

www.usmessageboard.com

There are way too many misguided and ignorant notions about reparations. Reparations would be demanded from the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT for policies enacted by the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT. The policies created by the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT were not done to exclude single individuals, nor did single individuals decide to implement the policies by themselves.

The rules-This is a policy discussion. We will discuss studies/laws/policies and the implications of such on black communities. Nothing else.

Kat
katsteve2012
NewsVine_Mariyam
MarcATL
Asclepias
flacaltenn
Crepitus
Dont Taz Me Bro
Erinwltr
OldLady
Paul Essen
Meister
Coyote

OK I'll do this again.
History of reparations in the United States
Reparations—a system of redress for egregious injustices—are not foreign to the United States. Native Americans have received land and billions of dollars for various benefits and programs for being forcibly exiled from their native lands. For Japanese Americans, $1.5 billion was paid to those who were interned during World War II. Additionally, the United States, via the Marshall Plan, helped to ensure that Jews received reparations for the Holocaust, including making various investments over time. In 1952, West Germany agreed to pay 3.45 billion Deutsche Marks to Holocaust survivors.

Black Americans are the only group that has not received reparations for state-sanctioned racial discrimination, while slavery afforded some white families the ability to accrue tremendous wealth. And, we must note that American slavery was particularly brutal. About 15 percent of the enslaved shipped from Western Africa died during transport. The enslaved were regularly beaten and lynched for frivolous infractions. Slavery also disrupted families as one in three marriages were split up and one in five children were separated from their parents. The case for reparations can be made on economic, social, and moral grounds. The United States had multiple opportunities to atone for slavery—each a missed chance to make the American Dream a reality—but has yet to undertake significant action.

Missed policy opportunities to atone for slavery with reparations
40 Acres and a Mule

The first major opportunity that the United States had and where it should have atoned for slavery was right after the Civil War. Union leaders including General William Sherman concluded that each Black family should receive 40 acres. Sherman signed Field Order 15 and allocated 400,000 acres of confiscated Confederate land to Black families. Additionally, some families were to receive mules left over from the war, hence 40 acres and a mule.

Yet, after President Abraham Lincoln’s assassination, President Andrew Johnson reversed Field Order 15 and returned land back to former slave owners. Instead of giving Blacks the means to support themselves, the federal government empowered former enslavers. For example, in Washington D.C., slave owners were actually paid reparations for lost property—the formally enslaved. This practice was also common in nearby states. Many Black Americans with limited work options returned as sharecroppers to till the same land for the very slave owners to whom they were once enslaved. Slave owners not only made money off the chattel enslavement of Black Americans, but they then made money multiple times over off the land that the formerly enslaved had no choice but to work.

The New Deal

There’s never a bad time to do what’s morally right, but the United States has had prime opportunities to atone for slavery. In the 1930s, the United States was reeling from the 1929 stock market crash and was firmly engulfed in the Great Depression. The Franklin Roosevelt administration implemented a series of policies as part of his New Deal legislation, estimated to cost roughly $50 billion then, to catapult the country out of depression. Current estimates price the New Deal at about $50 trillion.

Two particular policies of the New Deal fell short in redressing American’s racial wrongs—the G.I. Bill and Social Security. Though white and Black Americans fought in WWII, Black veterans could not redeem their post-war benefits like their white peers. While the G.I. Bill was mandated federally, it was implemented locally. The presence of racial housing covenants and redlining among local municipalities prohibited Blacks from utilizing federal benefits. White soldiers were afforded the opportunity to build wealth by sending themselves and their children to college and by obtaining housing and small business grants.

Regarding Social Security, two key professions that would have improved equity in America were excluded from the legislation—domestic and farm workers. These omissions effectively excluded 60 percent of Blacks across the U.S. and 75 percent in southern states who worked in these occupations. Roosevelt bargained these exclusionary provisions in the legislation on the backs of Black veterans and workers in order to propel mostly white America out of the Great Depression.

There are other policies and practices that contributed to racial wealth gap. Government-sanctioned discrimination related to the 1862 Homestead Act, redlining, restrictive covenants, and convict leasing blocked Blacks from the ability to gain wealth at similar rates as whites. Separate from slavery, damages should be awarded to Black people who were harmed by these policies and practices.

Why we need reparations for Black Americans | Brookings

Rashawn Ray and Andre Perry outline the history of reparations in the United States, missed opportunities to redress the racial wealth gap, and specific details for a viable reparations package for Black Americans.

www.brookings.edu

Pretty depressing picture of the past -- but accurate in facts.. Some of the assertions however, aren't that clear..

Trying to reparate while the dishonor and offenses ARE STILL ACCUMULATING just isn't practical.. At the time of New Deal -- it would be over 40 years before the FUNDAMENTAL govt issues with Civil Rights would begin to be resolved. So damages were ACCRUING faster than a one time payment during the New Deal would have fixed..

Similar logical failings on the GI bill housing issues. The war itself was an awakening of racial disparity and justice. But it took another decade or so for that to sink in because of all the post war trauma that had to be resolved. Main point on GI bill is that it should NEVER have been considered as reparations, because those payments were DUE AND PAYABLE at time of discharge for service and valor. Would NEVER be reparations beyond the service for which it was awarded.. Reparations would be in EXCESS of those benefits..

Housing covenants still linger today, but are now unenforceable. And in most of these cases, its ALL COMPLETELY GOVERNMENT failures to "do the right thing" not a collective debt from the general public who then and now -- have little REAL effect on political reform because of the priorities of politicians and parties...

These are excuses flacaltenn. The government made the laws and you cannot excuse this with your attempt to try separating the government from the general public.

You didn't read or did not understand any of the points I made about the TIMING of reparations with respect to the comments in the OP about the "new deal" or WW2 GI benefits...

You reply just repeats the OBVIOUS that I wrote to you.. That GOVERNMENT remained racist in America for 100 years AFTER the Civil War... You cannot "pay the bill for damages" while a HUNDRED YEARS of damages are STILL ACCRUING !!!!

And I told you that this government neglect of immorality is NOT the people's responsibility because the GOVERNMENT stopped being responsive to the people decades ago...

Learn to understand that I don't miss anything you say. So when the day comes that government is not run by people let me know. Damages can be paid at any time and as the OP showed, the government missed several chances to get the job done.