CDZ The case for a Universal Income

[Papageorgio]

Been to the Sequoias and the Redwoods, also the Little Big Horn. I’ve been to Yellowstone three times and I want to go back again, they have a highway going from Montana to Wyoming call Bear Tooth Pass that is a must drive. The Devils Tower is awe inspiring. Mt. Rushmore is pretty cool. So much to see and do. A ton of great places to see and fall in love with.

How much of the states have you seen?

 

[M14 Shooter]

DEBATE: Should the UK trial a temporary Universal Basic Income?
Much discussion about this at the moment. People being made redundant or told to stay at home will struggle over an extended period.

No one owes you, or anyone else, anything.
Stop tryng to force people to provide you with goods and services you have not earned.

But it does seem it is worth discussing at least at a moral level.

Only if you believe it is proper for people to use the state to impose their morality on others.

 

[Mac-7]

DEBATE: Should the UK trial a temporary Universal Basic Income?

Much discussion about this at the moment. People being made redundant or told to stay at home will struggle over an extended period.

Unemployment benefit is £50/£60 a week I think but it takes 6 weeks to get it. Sick pay is around £90. Add 25% to convert to dollars.

That doesn't go very far these days.

Its time to rebalance our society. We have never been so well off and technology has generally made our lives easier than ever.

But we still work like dogs and millions are one payslip away from debt.

Plusses - Crime would decrease, poverty as well. The economy would get a boost,malnutricion, poverty related diseases would decrease.
Wages would increase as people would not be forced into shitty low paid work.
We would all be more content.

Minuses - cost.

I don't have a workable solution to this but in 2020 I thought we would be going to work like The Jetsons used to in flying cars. Instead we worry about feeding our kids and keeping warm and sheltered.

A more viable approach would be a program where unemployment insurance is paid to those underemployed until such time as they return to fulltime employment or a previous payrate.

For example, a worker loses his $25 an hour job due to a layoff.

He can find a fulltime job at $10 an hour and he would receive insurance payments the equivalent of $15 an hour to bring him up to his previous pay rate to meet his financial obligations.

He would be required to continue to look for work at his previous payrate or risk losing unemployment insurance.

The insurance payment could also be linked to his state’s unemployment rate, where the payment would end once the state’s unemployment rate decreases to a certain level.

If the $25 job is difficult and the $10 job is really easy most people would never get off the dole

 

[MadChemist]

DEBATE: Should the UK trial a temporary Universal Basic Income?
Much discussion about this at the moment. People being made redundant or told to stay at home will struggle over an extended period.

No one owes you, or anyone else, anything.
Stop tryng to force people to provide you with goods and services you have not earned.

But it does seem it is worth discussing at least at a moral level.

Only if you believe it is proper for people to use the state to impose their morality on others.

That is the discussion.

I am not in favor of "enforcing morals" as it were since I really don't believe that is possible.

DEBATE: Should the UK trial a temporary Universal Basic Income?

Much discussion about this at the moment. People being made redundant or told to stay at home will struggle over an extended period.

Unemployment benefit is £50/£60 a week I think but it takes 6 weeks to get it. Sick pay is around £90. Add 25% to convert to dollars.

That doesn't go very far these days.

Its time to rebalance our society. We have never been so well off and technology has generally made our lives easier than ever.

But we still work like dogs and millions are one payslip away from debt.

Plusses - Crime would decrease, poverty as well. The economy would get a boost,malnutricion, poverty related diseases would decrease.
Wages would increase as people would not be forced into shitty low paid work.
We would all be more content.

Minuses - cost.

I don't have a workable solution to this but in 2020 I thought we would be going to work like The Jetsons used to in flying cars. Instead we worry about feeding our kids and keeping warm and sheltered.

If I got Universal Income, what would the incentive be for working?

Why do millionaires work now ? People will always want more. Not everybody but that's ok.

Wouldn’t universal income pay for anyone that wanted it? I see no point of working, I could retire, take liberals income and travel. Finally someone paying for my stuff, thanks for working and allowing me time to live off your dime.

I dont think it would finance a life of luxury. I see it as something that would keep you warm , dry and fed. These arent huge aspirations.

Goal: Everyone is warm dry, fed, clothed, and getting some form of preventative health care.

How to realize the goal: Many ways. Why not define the problem (or objective) and let the solution flow from there instead of doing it the other way around.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Plusses - Crime would decrease, poverty as well. The economy would get a boost,malnutricion, poverty related diseases would decrease.

All wrong of course. Socialism just impoverished and then slowly starved 150 million to death by destroying the incentive to work. Republican capitalism forces everyone to contribute to society rather than to leech off of it.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Goal: Everyone is warm dry, fed, clothed, and getting some form of preventative health care.

Capitalism does that perfectly. Socialism does the opposite by destroying the incentive to work. Remember East /West Germany. Look at modern USA. Liberal welfare programs have expanded hugely to a point liberals would not have dreamed of 50 years and yet the clamor for more welfare leeching is louder than ever. Welfare leeching leads to more welfare leeching not less.

 

[MadChemist]

Goal: Everyone is warm dry, fed, clothed, and getting some form of preventative health care.

Capitalism does that perfectly. Socialism does the opposite by destroying the incentive to work. Remember East /West Germany. Look at modern USA. Liberal welfare programs have expanded hugely to a point liberals would not have dreamed of 50 years and yet the clamor for more welfare leeching is louder than ever. Welfare leeching leads to more welfare leeching not less.

I understand your postion.

I recall Alan Keyes saying his ancestors had all the things I listed....and they were slaves.

Liberty comes with a cost.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Liberty comes with a cost.

what is the cost?

 

[MadChemist]

Liberty comes with a cost.

what is the cost?

Eternal Vigilance