Zone1 The Bible and democracy, what does the Bible have to say about democracy if anything?

[Votto]

Democracy for the Left has become a religion of sorts. The thinking is, the masses will always choose better than the minority. They do this despite the Founding Fathers rejecting the idea of a true democracy as they set up a Republic instead. Such things as the Electoral college and the fact Senators were not directly voted on by the people at the founding of the country enrage and offend democrats today.

But was does the Bible say about democracy if anything?

 

[Woodznutz]

Ezekiel 33:

1 Again the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman:

3 If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;

4 Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.

5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.

6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Sadly, the watchmen that we have elected are blind to the "sword" that has come among us to destroy us.

 

[Votto]

God asks us all to choose life over death.

Deuteronomy 30: 11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.

15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. 16 For I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess.

17 But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, 18 I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess.

19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live 20 and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the Lord is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

 

[Votto]

1 Samuel 8

1 And it came to pass, when Samuel was old, that he made his sons judges over Israel.

2 Now the name of his firstborn was Joel; and the name of his second, Abiah: they were judges in Beersheba.

3 And his sons walked not in his ways, but turned aside after lucre, and took bribes, and perverted judgment.

4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah,

5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.

6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord.

7 And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.

9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.

10 And Samuel told all the words of the Lord unto the people that asked of him a king.

11 And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots.

12 And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots.

13 And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers.

14 And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants.

15 And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.

16 And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work.

17 He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.

18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the Lord will not hear you in that day.

19 Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us;

20 That we also may be like all the nations; and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles.

21 And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he rehearsed them in the ears of the Lord.

22 And the Lord said to Samuel, Hearken unto their voice, and make them a king. And Samuel said unto the men of Israel, Go ye every man unto his city.

 

[Votto]

As we see in 1 Samuel 8, man was never made to be king over other men as only abuses can follow.

In fact, Thomas Paine included 1 Samuel 8 in his writing "Common Sense" which was used to fuel support for the American revolution against the king of England.

A Summary and Analysis of Thomas Paine’s Common Sense

By Dr Oliver Tearle (Loughborough University) After the Declaration of Independence, probably the most important and influential document of the American Revolution was a short pamphlet written not…

interestingliterature.com

 

[Woodznutz]

God asks us all to choose life over death.

Deuteronomy 30: 11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.

15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. 16 For I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess.

17 But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, 18 I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess.

19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live 20 and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the Lord is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

How is this choice demonstrated in today's political elections?

 

[Votto]

How is this choice demonstrated in today's political elections?

People are still looking for their human king and rejecting God as their king

Interestingly, in the OT, once the people disregarded the warnings of God by demanding a human king, the first two were King Saul and King David. King Saul started off Ok, but went South fast as he later tried to murder David. King David, however, is the most famous Israel King and arguably the most celebrated and benevolent, however, even at that he had a period where he took another man's wife and had her husband murdered. That is what power does to people as it turns good people into bad.

This is how power corrupts.

After King David, you had King Rehobaom, but under his watch the kingdom split in two as each kingdom had a human king. There were a total of 38 kings in all, of which, only 8 were regarded as "good" in the Bible.

Democracy in action!!

Then both kingdoms collapsed and the next thing the Jews knew they were in the ovens of Nazi Germany.

I get chills reading this verse in 1 Samuel 8

18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the Lord will not hear you in that day.

The Good And Bad Kings Of The Bible: The Rise And Fall of Israel and Judea

In this article, we will be exploring the good and bad kings of the Bible and their effect on their kingdoms. So, grab your Bible and let's dig in... The books in the Old Testament

thinkaboutsuchthings.com

 

[Woodznutz]

People are still looking for their human king and rejecting God as their king

Interestingly, in the OT, once the people disregarded the warnings of God by demanding a human king, the first two were King Saul and King David. King Saul started off Ok, but went South fast as he later tried to murder David. King David, however, is the most famous Israel King and arguably the most celebrated and benevolent, however, even at that he had a period where he took another man's wife and had her husband murdered. That is what power does to people as it turns good people into bad.

This is how power corrupts.

After King David, you had King Rehobaom, but under his watch the kingdom split in two as each kingdom had a human king. There were a total of 38 kings in all, of which, only 8 were regarded as "good" in the Bible.

Democracy in action!!

Then both kingdoms collapsed and the next thing the Jews knew they were in the ovens of Nazi Germany.

I get chills reading this verse in 1 Samuel 8

18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the Lord will not hear you in that day.

The Good And Bad Kings Of The Bible: The Rise And Fall of Israel and Judea

In this article, we will be exploring the good and bad kings of the Bible and their effect on their kingdoms. So, grab your Bible and let's dig in... The books in the Old Testament

thinkaboutsuchthings.com

God separated Israel in the days of Rehoboam and Jeroboam. It was the beginning of the separation of Judaism from Christianity, the old covenant from the coming new covenant. Ironically, Jesus was born of the Jews but was sent to the outcasts of the other tribes, from which Christianity emerged.

 

[Cougarbear]

Democracy for the Left has become a religion of sorts. The thinking is, the masses will always choose better than the minority. They do this despite the Founding Fathers rejecting the idea of a true democracy as they set up a Republic instead. Such things as the Electoral college and the fact Senators were not directly voted on by the people at the founding of the country enrage and offend democrats today.

But was does the Bible say about democracy if anything?

It's typical for people to search for Biblical verses to make a point. But, I'll take a different approach. Through all generations in the Bible, when God was present in the lives of groups of people, He gave them laws and commandments to follow. Just as Adam and Eve were given laws and commandments, they were to choose for themselves to follow or not. They were free to choose good or evil. But, there were also consequences for their choice. Through all generation, man has been given laws and commandments to freely choose, but with punishments as consequences for their choice so they can learn lessons about following the law.

So, can people freely choose knowing the consequences both good and bad in a democracy with the majority rule? Depends on the the majority and whether they will give the minority the rights to choose as well. What are God given rights? Free moral agency to choose good and evil; The right to speak your mind, free speech; The right to your religious beliefs and expressions; The right to protect yourself, your family and your country. The question is, has there ever been a democracy that allows this? Haven't seen one. Top down governments generally exist today as communists or fascists. Democrats in the U.S. have long numbered more than Republicans or other parties. And, today, they attempt to take away free speech, freedom to express your religion, you guns and attempt to take away your property as well.

So, we see that many of God's civilizations during Biblical times became top down democracy tyrannies and collapsed. A Constitutional Republic like was set up by the Founding Fathers represents more what God would want for humans led by other humans. To have a firm foundation in God, A superior law in which all other laws are bound to and basic rights as laid out in the Bill of Rights in the Constitution when it was written. Tyranny of the majority still was strong in many states with slavery still restricting basic God given rights. But, the foundation was laid to eventually give all states and people these basic rights that were inspired of God.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Ezekiel 33:

1 Again the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman:

3 If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;

4 Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.

5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.

6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Sadly, the watchmen that we have elected are blind to the "sword" that has come among us to destroy us.

By Design, a Republic Always Elects Watchmen Who Only Watch Out for Themselves

 

[Woodznutz]

By Design, a Republic Always Elects Watchmen Who Only Watch Out for Themselves

True. They rationalize that allowing crime provides needed employment for the criminal justice system.

 

[ZestolPastilevsky]

I dunno, man. But I don't recall any, "Republic of Heaven."

 

[Votto]

I dunno, man. But I don't recall any, "Republic of Heaven."

Ecclesiastes 10:2​

A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but a fool's heart to the left.

It's the only thing you have to know

 

[Votto]

It's typical for people to search for Biblical verses to make a point. But, I'll take a different approach. Through all generations in the Bible, when God was present in the lives of groups of people, He gave them laws and commandments to follow. Just as Adam and Eve were given laws and commandments, they were to choose for themselves to follow or not. They were free to choose good or evil. But, there were also consequences for their choice. Through all generation, man has been given laws and commandments to freely choose, but with punishments as consequences for their choice so they can learn lessons about following the law.

So, can people freely choose knowing the consequences both good and bad in a democracy with the majority rule? Depends on the the majority and whether they will give the minority the rights to choose as well. What are God given rights? Free moral agency to choose good and evil; The right to speak your mind, free speech; The right to your religious beliefs and expressions; The right to protect yourself, your family and your country. The question is, has there ever been a democracy that allows this? Haven't seen one. Top down governments generally exist today as communists or fascists. Democrats in the U.S. have long numbered more than Republicans or other parties. And, today, they attempt to take away free speech, freedom to express your religion, you guns and attempt to take away your property as well.

So, we see that many of God's civilizations during Biblical times became top down democracy tyrannies and collapsed. A Constitutional Republic like was set up by the Founding Fathers represents more what God would want for humans led by other humans. To have a firm foundation in God, A superior law in which all other laws are bound to and basic rights as laid out in the Bill of Rights in the Constitution when it was written. Tyranny of the majority still was strong in many states with slavery still restricting basic God given rights. But, the foundation was laid to eventually give all states and people these basic rights that were inspired of God.

From my vantage point of scripture and human history, the human heart always sets them adrift towards self desctruction.

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Then came Christ to bring us home.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Notice, there is no where in there about democracy saving any of us. In fact, you could argue from the verse that the general consensus can only end in complete human destruction at some point if God is left out of the equation.

 

[Votto]

By Design, a Republic Always Elects Watchmen Who Only Watch Out for Themselves

The Founders knew that the sinful nature of man would eventually destroy the Republic

As Ben Franklin once said

“In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution, with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a General Government necessary for us, and there is no form of government, but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered; and believe further, that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic government.”

Men tend to gravitate toward their sinful nature and away from God.

I think this is why the Left focus' on destroying the morality of a nation. They know that it will only result in chaos, from which a despotic governemnt will arise in order to bring civility back to society.

At that point, you just build a prison wall around society and hire a warden to watch them and try and keep them in line.

 

[Cougarbear]

The Founders knew that the sinful nature of man would eventually destroy the Republic

As Ben Franklin once said

“In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution, with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a General Government necessary for us, and there is no form of government, but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered; and believe further, that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic government.”

Men tend to gravitate toward their sinful nature and away from God.

I think this is why the Left focus' on destroying the morality of a nation. They know that it will only result in chaos, from which a despotic governemnt will arise in order to bring civility back to society.

At that point, you just build a prison wall around society and hire a warden to watch them and try and keep them in line.

When democracy creeps in and gains a strong hold, that is when the majority tightens its grip and strangles the free rights from the people. Our morals as a people are weakened. Democrat tyrants are attempting to squeeze more and more. Is there enough to squeeze back? Tuesday will tell much where we are.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

True. They rationalize that allowing crime provides needed employment for the criminal justice system.

Being Soft on Crime Is State-Sponsored Terrorism

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

The Founders knew that the sinful nature of man would eventually destroy the Republic

As Ben Franklin once said

“In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution, with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a General Government necessary for us, and there is no form of government, but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered; and believe further, that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic government.”

Men tend to gravitate toward their sinful nature and away from God.

I think this is why the Left focus' on destroying the morality of a nation. They know that it will only result in chaos, from which a despotic governemnt will arise in order to bring civility back to society.

At that point, you just build a prison wall around society and hire a warden to watch them and try and keep them in line.

Zero-Sum False Dichotomy

Whatever truth you tell about the Left has nothing to do with the merits of the Right.

 

[SaxonJackson]

Democracy for the Left has become a religion of sorts. The thinking is, the masses will always choose better than the minority. They do this despite the Founding Fathers rejecting the idea of a true democracy as they set up a Republic instead. Such things as the Electoral college and the fact Senators were not directly voted on by the people at the founding of the country enrage and offend democrats today.

But was does the Bible say about democracy if anything?

Truth be told, the Bible emphasizes a Theocracy. The children of God don't get to vote for who their next King is going to be. The King is eternal and His Word is final. Although many modern churches have opted to choose "wokism" and/or liberalism over God's Word, God hasn't changed one iota and He's not going to change for the lunatic left. So "Democracy" really doesn't exist in God's Kingdom.

 

[foggedinn]

There is a famous quote by Winston Churchill about democracy being the worst form of government, except for all the others. I would amend his quote. A democracy where the leaders who are elected don't fear God is the worst form of government, no exceptions. It becomes nothing less than mob rule.