Zone1 The anti-Christ will have a "church" and we can recognize it ("Seek and you will find")

[ding]

This is a public board about religion. I'm discussing religion. You don't agree with my stance. That doesn't mean I will go away just because you don't like it.

When did I say I don't agree with your stance? I couldn't care less what you believe or don't believe. It has nothing to do with why I believe you are struggling. I explained why I believe you are struggling. You never disputed it.

This is a public forum as you so astutely pointed out. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. I will not go away just because you don't like it.

 

[hobelim]

So the bible can mean whatever you want it to mean

right. But there is only one way to understand the figurative words and comply with the hidden subjects that leads to the fulfillment of the promise of abundant blessings and eternal life in the sanctuary of God here and now on earth.

"So he drove the man out and to the east of Eden he stationed the Cherubim, with a flaming and flashing sword, that turns in every direction, to guard the way to the tree of life"

 

[Blues Man]

right. But there is only one way to understand the figurative words and comply with the hidden subjects that leads to the fulfillment of the promise of abundant blessings and eternal life in the sanctuary of God here and now on earth.

"So he drove the man out and to the east of Eden he stationed the Cherubim, with a flaming and flashing sword, that turns in every direction, to guard the way to the tree of life"

Which is why the bible is bullocks.

Seriously in a time where the vast majority of people were illiterate and unsophisticated that they were to be able to understand all these obscure hidden meanings and alternate interpretations is beyond ridiculous.

The bible was purposely written in such a way so as to make the Church the sole arbiter of the religion and to give it power over the masses of believers.

One of the worst things that ever happened to any religion is the masses becoming literate and educated.

 

[nomadic5]

Which is why the bible is bullocks.

Seriously in a time where the vast majority of people were illiterate and unsophisticated that they were to be able to understand all these obscure hidden meanings and alternate interpretations is beyond ridiculous.

The bible was purposely written in such a way so as to make the Church the sole arbiter of the religion and to give it power over the masses of believers.

One of the worst things that ever happened to any religion is the masses becoming literate and educated.

RE your last sentence:

I would add this:

AND THAT (the masses becoming 'literate') WAS BAD for all of society-- bad for the whole world.

Now we have nothing but confusion and chaos. We have Catholics (so called) supporting the most godawful things because "it sounds right"--things like the gay and trans movement.. butchering even young children after convincing them that trans is what they want when it is not .. trying to exclude parents from even knowing about it!

We are going the way of the old Roman empire and we're too dumb to realize it (probably most people are anyhow). We are distracted by sports and entertainment while our world and our democracies die a slow, painful death.

So much for "education"

So much for being "enlightened" -- so much for no longer being naive enough or stupid enough or whatever... to believe in God and His Word. Well, I have found through experience that everything in the Bible is true, everything there can be applied to life on Planet E and relied upon to make life better. It was the times in my life when I was NOT in compliance w/ what is written there (along with the Original Church's teachings not always explicit there) that I was miserable AND made others' lives miserable (unintentionally).

I'm going to stick w/ what works, thank you.. (which is not to say that what works is always a pleasure trip to Nirvana. It certainly is not, but it beats the old way I had of going against it.

 

[hobelim]

Which is why the bible is bullocks.

Seriously in a time where the vast majority of people were illiterate and unsophisticated that they were to be able to understand all these obscure hidden meanings and alternate interpretations is beyond ridiculous.

If you were surrounded by many more powerful and numerous superstitious nations obsessed with the destruction of your people when there was no such thing as freedom of expression you may have used arcane figurative language too, just like any criminalized people do to this day, to conceal from the enemy the treasures and knowledge of your people and hard learned lessons of the past to survive, remain sane, even thrive against all odds, and avoid complete destruction.

The bible was purposely written in such a way so as to make the Church the sole arbiter of the religion and to give it power over the masses of believers.

Not exactly. See above. When Rome usurped authority over the interpretation of scripture after it assimilated and perverted Christianity in 325CE, without having any knowledge of Jewish thought, beliefs, or expressions, the Church became just another pagan tomb filled with vermin, maggots, worms, corruption, and dead mens bones, and unfortunate souls held captive by this ignorance, not to mention threats of real and imaginary violence and suffering for unbelief.,

One of the worst things that ever happened to any religion is the masses becoming literate and educated.

Agreed.

But why not use that education to find what was buried and hidden in those fantastical stories?

The message of stories written in the Bible however unbelievable were not beyond the grasp of the children of Hebrew nomads who knew then what are now well known literary techniques using metaphors, anthropomorphisms, allegories, homonyms, hyperbole, similes, etc., to teach.

Try to understand that the question of historical accuracy was irrelevant to them. Learning was.

If many people are too smart to fall for the BS that those stories are to be taken literally like any historical documents, are you smart enough to decipher what was written, buried and hidden in figurative language, by people who lived thousands of years ago without a modern education?

 

[Blues Man]

If you were surrounded by many more powerful and numerous superstitious nations obsessed with the destruction of your people when there was no such thing as freedom of expression you may have used arcane figurative language too, just like any criminalized people do to this day, to conceal from the enemy the treasures and knowledge of your people and hard learned lessons of the past to survive, remain sane, even thrive against all odds, and avoid complete destruction.



Not exactly. See above. When Rome usurped authority over the interpretation of scripture after it assimilated and perverted Christianity in 325CE, without having any knowledge of Jewish thought, beliefs, or expressions, the Church became just another pagan tomb filled with vermin, maggots, worms, corruption, and dead mens bones, and unfortunate souls held captive by this ignorance, not to mention threats of real and imaginary violence and suffering for unbelief.,



Agreed.

But why not use that education to find what was buried and hidden in those fantastical stories?

The message of stories written in the Bible however unbelievable were not beyond the grasp of the children of Hebrew nomads who knew then what are now well known literary techniques using metaphors, anthropomorphisms, allegories, homonyms, hyperbole, similes, etc., to teach.

Try to understand that the question of historical accuracy was irrelevant to them. Learning was.

If many people are too smart to fall for the BS that those stories are to be taken literally like any historical documents, are you smart enough to decipher what was written, buried and hidden in figurative language, by people who lived thousands of years ago without a modern education?

So when the Roman Catholic Church decided what would be in the bible they were surrounded by people who wanted their destruction?

Let's not forget you are not reading anything the RCC doesn't want you to read

 

[Blues Man]

RE your last sentence:

I would add this:

AND THAT (the masses becoming 'literate') WAS BAD for all of society-- bad for the whole world.

Now we have nothing but confusion and chaos. We have Catholics (so called) supporting the most godawful things because "it sounds right"--things like the gay and trans movement.. butchering even young children after convincing them that trans is what they want when it is not .. trying to exclude parents from even knowing about it!

We are going the way of the old Roman empire and we're too dumb to realize it (probably most people are anyhow). We are distracted by sports and entertainment while our world and our democracies die a slow, painful death.

So much for "education"

So much for being "enlightened" -- so much for no longer being naive enough or stupid enough or whatever... to believe in God and His Word. Well, I have found through experience that everything in the Bible is true, everything there can be applied to life on Planet E and relied upon to make life better. It was the times in my life when I was NOT in compliance w/ what is written there (along with the Original Church's teachings not always explicit there) that I was miserable AND made others' lives miserable (unintentionally).

I'm going to stick w/ what works, thank you.. (which is not to say that what works is always a pleasure trip to Nirvana. It certainly is not, but it beats the old way I had of going against it.

Yes an ignorant uneducated populace is better in every way than one that is literate.

Are you fucking high?

 

[Blues Man]

If you were surrounded by many more powerful and numerous superstitious nations obsessed with the destruction of your people when there was no such thing as freedom of expression you may have used arcane figurative language too, just like any criminalized people do to this day, to conceal from the enemy the treasures and knowledge of your people and hard learned lessons of the past to survive, remain sane, even thrive against all odds, and avoid complete destruction.



Not exactly. See above. When Rome usurped authority over the interpretation of scripture after it assimilated and perverted Christianity in 325CE, without having any knowledge of Jewish thought, beliefs, or expressions, the Church became just another pagan tomb filled with vermin, maggots, worms, corruption, and dead mens bones, and unfortunate souls held captive by this ignorance, not to mention threats of real and imaginary violence and suffering for unbelief.,



Agreed.

But why not use that education to find what was buried and hidden in those fantastical stories?

The message of stories written in the Bible however unbelievable were not beyond the grasp of the children of Hebrew nomads who knew then what are now well known literary techniques using metaphors, anthropomorphisms, allegories, homonyms, hyperbole, similes, etc., to teach.

Try to understand that the question of historical accuracy was irrelevant to them. Learning was.

If many people are too smart to fall for the BS that those stories are to be taken literally like any historical documents, are you smart enough to decipher what was written, buried and hidden in figurative language, by people who lived thousands of years ago without a modern education?

I never said the bible is to be taken literally.

The bible was written by humans about a god that was made up by humans.

 

[hobelim]

Let's not forget you are not reading anything the RCC doesn't want you to read

The RCC could not then and cannot now censure that which remains above their grasp.

 

[ding]

Echo chamber

 

[Blues Man]

The RCC could not then and cannot now censure that which remains above their grasp.

But they are the sole arbiter of what is in your bible aren't they?

They keep ancient writing out of reach from the masses don't they?

 

[nomadic5]

Since Protestantism, we have had ubiquitous, massive atrocities

Just look at the lack of respect for human life we've had in the centuries since it began (began with Luther in the 16th century)

1 We've had many wars... WW I and II and so many I can't list half of them..
2 Roe v Wade
3 euthanasia.. people being encouraged to off themselves because they are a burden to society ("too old", when really, old people have wisdom young people never dreamed of)
4 transgendering... Trans and gays commit suicide more often than straight people
5 elections stolen

Hey, if you're saved just by believing in Jesus (whatever that really means), why not just do whatever you want? No sin you commit will keep you from Heaven!

That is what The Father of Protestantism (Luther) taught. He said that you could commit adultery 20 times a day and still get into HEAVEN. OMG

The bible disagrees, but who goes by the Bible anymore? Be your own pope! (as Luther instructed)

People who claim to religiously adhere to Scripture.. do not, half the time (or more than half). If a scripture sounds too different from their chosen narrative.. (like OnceSavedAlwaysSaved)

"into the stove with [it]" That's what Luther said about the Book of James (or "Jimmy" as he irreverently called him). He didn't like James because that Apostle said that "without works, faith is dead."

 

[hobelim]

But they are the sole arbiter of what is in your bible aren't they?

No. There are many historical and non canonical sources not to mention encyclopedic Jewish writings about historical metaphors used that have remained unchanged from "the beginning."

Not to mention that objective reality is a constant constraint on any possible interpretation.

If Rome understood that the subject of raising the dead or giving sight to the blind was about deprogramming and freeing the hypnotized, the subjugated and beguiled from birth and fleeced used and abused for life, they would never have preserved any of the Gospels even in their current redacted form. As I said, they could not censure that which remains above their grasp.

They keep ancient writing out of reach from the masses don't they?

No. The information, the truth, is available to anyone who cares to look deeply enough to find it.

 

[nomadic5]

I'm shocked, utterly shocked!

No protestant has argued against Post # 152!

maybe it's because there is no argument. Truth is, as (I believe it was) Churchill said "irrefutable."

 

[Blues Man]

No. There are many historical and non canonical sources not to mention encyclopedic Jewish writings about historical metaphors used that have remained unchanged from "the beginning."

Not to mention that objective reality is a constant constraint on any possible interpretation.

If Rome understood that the subject of raising the dead or giving sight to the blind was about deprogramming and freeing the hypnotized, the subjugated and beguiled from birth and fleeced used and abused for life, they would never have preserved any of the Gospels even in their current redacted form. As I said, they could not censure that which remains above their grasp.



No. The information, the truth, is available to anyone who cares to look deeply enough to find it.

And yet the single most used version of the bible used by Christians is the one cobbled together by the council of Nicaea for the RCC

So if that's not the "truth" and most Christians haven't even read that bible then once more we see that religion is a farce.

 

[hobelim]

And yet the single most used version of the bible used by Christians is the one cobbled together by the council of Nicaea for the RCC

So if that's not the "truth" and most Christians haven't even read that bible then once more we see that religion is a farce.

What is not the truth is that the Gospels are eyewitness accounts of supernatural events that should be taken literally which creates a false substitute Jesus whose miracles of the lie (that scripture should be taken literally) do not correspond to any real living being ever in existence.

However that alone does not make the stories false, just the interpretations of them. Neither does it make religion false. In fact it actually vindicates the faith of all Abrahamic religions, not to mention, at the same time, it vindicates the faith of all unbelievers. For instance the eyewitness accounts of Jesus after the crucifixion were not eyewitness accounts of actual events but eyewitness accounts of what was seen and heard in dreams, dreams and visions the medium through which God communicates with people and the only place where such things could happen like a dead Jewish man ascending into the sky or popping in and out of locked rooms.

Most sober intelligent people do not need to be told that such things can only occur in dreams.

The same thing applies to the law. After the revelation of Jesus was made known that the words used in the law are figurative and the subjects hidden that did not make the Law obsolete at all, just the wrong way to understand and comply with the Laws demands became obsolete, bullocks

With that in mind, as I challenged you before to consider, If many people in this day and age are too smart to fall for the BS that those stories are to be taken literally like any historical documents, are you smart enough to decipher what was written, buried and hidden in figurative language, by people who lived thousands of years ago without any modern education?

Think of it as a treasure hunt where anything that contradicts what is well known to be true about reality or offends the sensibilities of a child is like a big red X on a treasure map marking the exact place where something of great value was buried and hidden. "The kingdom of heaven is like hidden treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it (Jesus) buried it again."

Can you dig it?

 

[Blues Man]

What is not the truth is that the Gospels are eyewitness accounts of supernatural events that should be taken literally which creates a false substitute Jesus whose miracles of the lie (that scripture should be taken literally) do not correspond to any real living being ever in existence.

However that alone does not make the stories false, just the interpretations of them. Neither does it make religion false. In fact it actually vindicates the faith of all Abrahamic religions, not to mention, at the same time, it vindicates the faith of all unbelievers. For instance the eyewitness accounts of Jesus after the crucifixion were not eyewitness accounts of actual events but eyewitness accounts of what was seen and heard in dreams, dreams and visions the medium through which God communicates with people and the only place where such things could happen like a dead Jewish man ascending into the sky or popping in and out of locked rooms.

Most sober intelligent people do not need to be told that such things can only occur in dreams.

The same thing applies to the law. After the revelation of Jesus was made known that the words used in the law are figurative and the subjects hidden that did not make the Law obsolete at all, just the wrong way to understand and comply with the Laws demands became obsolete, bullocks

With that in mind, as I challenged you before to consider, If many people in this day and age are too smart to fall for the BS that those stories are to be taken literally like any historical documents, are you smart enough to decipher what was written, buried and hidden in figurative language, by people who lived thousands of years ago without any modern education?

Think of it as a treasure hunt where anything that contradicts what is well known to be true about reality or offends the sensibilities of a child is like a big red X on a treasure map marking the exact place where something of great value was buried and hidden. "The kingdom of heaven is like hidden treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it (Jesus) buried it again."

Can you dig it?

Where did I ever say anything in the bible should be taken literally>?

 

[hobelim]

Where did I ever say anything in the bible should be taken literally>?

You never did, but your position and attempts to refute whats in the Bible is based on the beliefs of others who claim that the fantastical stories in the Bible are literal accounts of actual events.

What I did is show you that there is another story written between the lines that conforms to reality, a hidden story about Jesus and a hidden teaching from an unknown God who doesn't give a crap about what people wear or what people eat or the sexual preferences of consenting adults, obscured by figures of speech, that can only be perceived by those who apply intelligent rational reasoning which renders all of your arguments that the Bible is complete bullocks moot.

You might as well be arguing that the the story of "The Three Pigs" is complete bullshit because pigs can't talk or build houses and there is no archeological evidence that verifies anything at all.

Not very becoming an intelligent, educated, modern person of such distinguished pretensions.

 

[Blues Man]

You never did, but your position and attempts to refute whats in the Bible is based on the beliefs of others who claim that the fantastical stories in the Bible are literal accounts of actual events.

What I did is show you that there is another story written between the lines that conforms to reality, a hidden story about Jesus and a hidden teaching from an unknown God who doesn't give a crap about what people wear or what people eat or the sexual preferences of consenting adults, obscured by figures of speech, that can only be perceived by those who apply intelligent rational reasoning which renders all of your arguments that the Bible is complete bullocks moot.

You might as well be arguing that the the story of "The Three Pigs" is complete bullshit because pigs can't talk or build houses and there is no archeological evidence that verifies anything at all.

Not very becoming an intelligent, educated, modern person of such distinguished pretensions.

No it doesn't.

My position is to refute the bible because it is written by men not gods about a god that men invented

 

[hobelim]

My position is to refute the bible because it is written by men not gods about a god that men invented

OK, so you may never become a great thinker... I can live with that...

You might want to consider the possibility that your position is a predictable response resulting from the way scripture was deliberately written by extremely intelligent and dedicated Jewish people to divert unclean creatures hell bent on being lawless which has like you, proven the teaching above your grasp from the first to the last true.

Still works like a charm!