The Anthropocene

[ding]

1) Have you decided what definition of "nature" you're using?
2) Of course Man is affecting his environment.
3) I know of NO evolutionary changes to any species in response to human activities. There was a moth in Great Britain that was believed to have turned from white to black in response to coal soot, but that turned out not to be true. Several species have experieneced behavioral changes in response to human incursions into their habitats: pigeons, coyotes, rats, polar bears, etc; but no mutations. The pace of human effects is far, far too rapid to allow evolutionary adaptaation. Even the megafauna of North American 13,000 years ago couldn't keep up with ugly little hominids walking over the Bering Land Bridge.
4) Mass extinctions are not the least bit Darwinian. No mutations have taken place. Nor more suitable species has arisen. Humans have not benefitted from the disappearance of any of the thousands of species we've driven out of existence.
5) Whether or not man may be considered an event is purely up to one's viewpoint. From the viewpoint of an archeologist a million years in the future looking at the stratigraphic record, man would be as much an event as the KT impact, the End Perman Extinction or any of the rest. Environment is a extremely important component to evolution. That is why we have no polar bears in tropical rainforests or howler monkeys at the South Pole.

You don't actually know diddly squat about evolution. You really ought to bone up before you embarrass yourself further.

Is that better?

Yes, that is much better. Yes I did provide my definition of nature and it has never changed. And you agreed with my definition of nature. Did you already forget that? It was just the other day. Do you have memory issues?

Great. So we agree that man is affecting his environment. Now if you will only recognize that extinctions due to man affecting the environment is literally evolution as those species died out because they were unable to adapt to their environment, then we will be on the same page with that as well.

I'm not sure how you can say you know of NO evolutionary changes to any species in response to human activities if you believe that species going extinct are due man's influence on the environment. Because those species failure to adapt to those changes is what led to their extinction and that is literally evolution.

Mass extinctions are most definitely Darwinian in that species that fail to adapt to their changing environment die. How is that not Darwinian?

Apparently I know more about evolution than you do because I understand that species going extinct is an integral part of evolution because they fail to adapt to their environment. Apparently you believe it is only evolution if they survive their changing environment but that just isn't the case.

 

[Crick]

Yes, that is much better. Yes I did provide my definition of nature and it has never changed. And you agreed with my definition of nature. Did you already forget that? It was just the other day. Do you have memory issues?

Then explain how anything "matters" to the physical world, fool

 

[ding]

Then explain how anything "matters" to the physical world, fool

Why would it? Mankind could kill off all life and it wouldn't matter to nature. Which is how I know you are making a moral argument because you care. Nature doesn't give two shits, you do.

 

[Crick]

Why would it? Mankind could kill off all life and it wouldn't matter to nature.

Then why did you say that it did?

Which is how I know you are making a moral argument because you care. Nature doesn't give two shits, you do.

If you go back and reread this thread, you will find that YOU were the one that said things"mattered to nature", not me. Feel free to continue the moral arguments you've been making here. I don't have an objection to them. I simply wasn't making one.

 

[ding]

Then why did you say that it did?

If you go back and reread this thread, you will find that YOU were the one that said things"mattered to nature", not me. Feel free to continue the moral arguments you've been making here. I don't have an objection to them. I simply wasn't making one.

Maybe you should be using the quote feature.

 

[SeaMajor7]

Misanthropocene would be a better name.​

 

[ding]

Misanthropocene would be a better name.​

I guess some people are for Darwin except when they are against Darwin.

 

[Crick]

Maybe you should be using the quote feature.

Maybe you should keep better track of your arguments.

Speaking of arguments, I have to now admit that while mass extinctions are certainly not an example of Darwin's natural selection, they are an evolutionary event. I was wrong on that point.

 

[ding]

Maybe you should keep better track of your arguments.

Speaking of arguments, I have to now admit that while mass extinctions are certainly not an example of Darwin's natural selection, they are an evolutionary event. I was wrong on that point.

Quote it or it didn't happen.

Everything is evolving. Everything. It's a continuous process. It never sleeps.

 

[Crick]

Quote it or it didn't happen.

Everything is evolving. Everything. It's a continuous process. It never sleeps.

A mass extinction event that killed ALL life on the planet could hardly be said to be evolutionary.

 

[ding]

A mass extinction event that killed ALL life on the planet could hardly be said to be evolutionary.

First all, when did that happen?

Secondly, of course it is. Natural selection determined no species had the necessary functional advantage to survive. So they all died out.

 

[sparky]

Not sure if Dave's shtick fits here, but he did present w/some interesting stats....

Watch David Attenborough: A Life on Our Planet | Netflix Official Site

A broadcaster recounts his life, and the evolutionary history of life on Earth, to grieve the loss of wild places and offer a vision for the future.

www.netflix.com

~S~

 

[Crick]

First all, when did that happen?

For christ's sake. It HASN'T happened. Are you unable to communicate figuratively?

Secondly, of course it is. Natural selection determined no species had the necessary functional advantage to survive. So they all died out.

And when did that happen? ; - )

 

[ding]

For christ's sake. It HASN'T happened. Are you unable to communicate figuratively?


And when did that happen? ; - )

Exactly, all life becoming extinct has never happened. So you should have never brought it up as your example of an extinction that is not evolutionary.

But even if it had you would have still been wrong because evolving or dying because of functional advantage that was either realized or not realized is Darwinian.

 

[Crick]

Exactly, all life becoming extinct has never happened. So you should have never brought it up as your example of an extinction that is not evolutionary.

I don't plan on lowering my discourse to your level. If you don't get it, that's your problem.

But even if it had you would have still been wrong because evolving or dying because of functional advantage that was either realized or not realized is Darwinian.

Evolution is not ONLY the elimination of species.

 

[ding]

I don't plan on lowering my discourse to your level. If you don't get it, that's your problem.

Evolution is not ONLY the elimination of species.

I never said evolution is only the elimination of a species. Are you stupid or something? You were the one who was only looking at one side of the equation (those that adapted). I've always considered both sides (those that adapted and those that didn't). You are letting your emotion get the better of you.

 

[Crick]

I never said evolution is only the elimination of a species. Are you stupid or something?

Exactly, all life becoming extinct has never happened. So you should have never brought it up as your example of an extinction that is not evolutionary.

But even if it had you would have still been wrong because evolving or dying because of functional advantage that was either realized or not realized is Darwinian.

 

[abu afak]

The Holocene extinction, or Anthropocene extinction,[3][4] is the ongoing extinction event caused by humans during the Holocene epoch. These extinctions span numerous families of plants[5][6][7] and animals, including mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, fish, and invertebrates, and affecting not just terrestrial species but also large sectors of marine life.[8] With widespread degradation of biodiversity hotspots, such as coral reefs and rainforests, as well as other areas, the vast majority of these extinctions are thought to be undocumented, as the species are undiscovered at the time of their extinction, which goes unrecorded.

The current rate of extinction of species is estimated at 100 to 1,000 times higher than natural background extinction rates[9][10][11][12][13] and is increasing.[14] During the past 100–200 years, biodiversity loss and species extinction have accelerated,[10] to the point that most conservation biologists now believe that human activity has either produced a period of mass extinction,[15][16] or is on the cusp of doing so.[17][18] As such, after the "Big Five" mass extinctions, the Holocene extinction event has also been referred to as the sixth mass extinction or sixth extinction;[19][20][21] given the recent recognition of the Capitanian mass extinction, the term seventh mass extinction has also been proposed for the Holocene extinction event.[22][23]
[.......]

Holocene extinction - Wikipedia​

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[ding]

The Holocene extinction, or Anthropocene extinction,[3][4] is the ongoing extinction event caused by humans during the Holocene epoch. These extinctions span numerous families of plants[5][6][7] and animals, including mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, fish, and invertebrates, and affecting not just terrestrial species but also large sectors of marine life.[8] With widespread degradation of biodiversity hotspots, such as coral reefs and rainforests, as well as other areas, the vast majority of these extinctions are thought to be undocumented, as the species are undiscovered at the time of their extinction, which goes unrecorded.

The current rate of extinction of species is estimated at 100 to 1,000 times higher than natural background extinction rates[9][10][11][12][13] and is increasing.[14] During the past 100–200 years, biodiversity loss and species extinction have accelerated,[10] to the point that most conservation biologists now believe that human activity has either produced a period of mass extinction,[15][16] or is on the cusp of doing so.[17][18] As such, after the "Big Five" mass extinctions, the Holocene extinction event has also been referred to as the sixth mass extinction or sixth extinction;[19][20][21] given the recent recognition of the Capitanian mass extinction, the term seventh mass extinction has also been proposed for the Holocene extinction event.[22][23]
[.......]

Holocene extinction - Wikipedia​

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SF Table 7.2. Table of mass extinction events by date and their possible causes

Date	Event Name	Level of Extinction	Possible Cause
0.01 mya	Quaternary	55% of large mammal genera	End of ice age, hunting by early humans
66 mya	Cretaceous-Paleogene	17% of families, including dinosaurs; 50% of genera; end of Age of Reptiles	Asteroid impact, volcanic eruption
205 mya	Triassic-Jurassic	23% of families; 48% of genera	Breakup of Pangaea, extensive volcanic eruptions
252 mya	Permian-Triassic	70% of all land species; 80-96% of marine species; end of Paleozoic era	Formation of Pangea leading to depletion of shallow seas, volcanic eruptions, glaciation
345 mya	Late Devonian	19% of families, 50% of genera	Glaciation, meteor impact
450 mya	Ordovician-Silurian	25% of families, 57% of genera	Glaciation, causing changes in sea level

https://manoa.hawaii.edu/exploringo...rast-connect-mass-extinctions-earth-s-history

Looks like glaciation was the culprit in 3 out of 6.

 

[ReinyDays]

SF Table 7.2. Table of mass extinction events by date and their possible causes

Date	Event Name	Level of Extinction	Possible Cause
0.01 mya	Quaternary	55% of large mammal genera	End of ice age, hunting by early humans
66 mya	Cretaceous-Paleogene	17% of families, including dinosaurs; 50% of genera; end of Age of Reptiles	Asteroid impact, volcanic eruption
205 mya	Triassic-Jurassic	23% of families; 48% of genera	Breakup of Pangaea, extensive volcanic eruptions
252 mya	Permian-Triassic	70% of all land species; 80-96% of marine species; end of Paleozoic era	Formation of Pangea leading to depletion of shallow seas, volcanic eruptions, glaciation
345 mya	Late Devonian	19% of families, 50% of genera	Glaciation, meteor impact
450 mya	Ordovician-Silurian	25% of families, 57% of genera	Glaciation, causing changes in sea level

https://manoa.hawaii.edu/exploringo...rast-connect-mass-extinctions-earth-s-history

Looks like glaciation was the culprit in 3 out of 6.

Except the Quaternary Extinction Event started closer to 50,000 years ago ... late Pleistocene ... when humans arrived in Australia most of the megafauna died out ... exactly like what happened in the Americas when humans arrived there 10,000 years ago ...

This is only the last half billion years ... and this was generally a warm period for Earth ... now include ALL mass extinction events, especially the ones when the Earth was colder than today ... like the Oxygen Crisis, when everything died except cyanobacteria ...