The American Dream is Dead

[KissMy]

I got out of prison in 88/89. I now have a thriving remodeling business. From the bottom to the proverbial top.

If you are floundering in life, look in the mirror for the solution.

Of course here in the USA you can make a lot of money exploiting the hard work of others. But are your workers families thriving? Do your workers have retirement security? When their joints give out from all the hard construction work they do for you, you fire them. Who gives a shit after that right.

Again, this is another one of those brainless idiotic claims.

Ok, so let's ban all business. Because inherently a business by it's very nature exploits labor. So we want to end that exploitation.

Have you seen Cuba? Have you seen Venezuela? Have you seen Greece? Have you seen all the places where business owners went on a mass exodus?

Empty shelves.... empty stores.... high unemployment.... BUT HEY NO EXPLOITATION!

How dumb, does a person have to be, to think this is a win? Apparently all those Cubans were on rafts to escape the lack exploitation.

And whose job is it to take care of your retirement? Is it the employers job to take care of YOUR retirement? No. It is YOUR job to take care of YOUR retirement.

That's why you live on less than you make, and save the rest for retirement.

Last year I made less than $20,000 for the year. I still managed to put several thousand in retirement.

We have fallen so far that you believe poverty wage is the American Dream. Plus the several thousand you put away will be worthless for your retirement.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Before Reagan the USA was the World's Largest Creditor Nation!
After Reagan the USA is the World's Largest Debtor Nation!

ENJOY!

Okay...it's all Reagan's fault.

Does Obama get any blame? After all, he DOUBLED the national debt adding massively more debt than Reagan ever did.

Bush Tax Cuts & Spending Caused It! Obama was fixing the deficit. Hillary Clinton budget paid down $2 Trillion of debt. Trump budget adds $4 Trillion to debt!

Bush spent like a drunken sailor.
Obama made Bush look like a skinflint.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Before Reagan the USA was the World's Largest Creditor Nation!
After Reagan the USA is the World's Largest Debtor Nation!

ENJOY!

Okay...it's all Reagan's fault.

Does Obama get any blame? After all, he DOUBLED the national debt adding massively more debt than Reagan ever did.

Bush Tax Cuts & Spending Caused It! Obama was fixing the deficit. Clinton budget

Apparently you don't get simple math.

National debt 2008: $10 trillion (give or take a few)
National debt 2016: $20 trillion (give or take a few)

Trick question...Did the national debt double from 2008 to 2016?

Who was in office in 2008? Dumbass!
Obama budget didn't start until October 2009!
Hillary Clinton budget paid down $2 Trillion of debt.
Trump budget adds $4 Trillion to debt!
The economy is doing well. So why is Trump adding debt!!!

Obama budget didn't start until October 2009!

Bullshit.

The United States federal budget for fiscal year 2009 began as a spending request submitted by President George W. Bush to the 110th Congress. The final resolution written and submitted by the 110th Congress to be forwarded to the President was approved by the House on June 5, 2008.[5] The final spending bills for the budget were not signed into law until March 11, 2009 by President Barack Obama, nearly five and a half months after the fiscal year began.

2009 United States federal budget - Wikipedia

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I am sitting in a Subway right now. It's presumably run/owned by these people from India or another similar country based on their stiff accents. The store is full of people. Whites, Mexicans & a couple light skinned blacks. I see a truck with two jet skies in the parking lot. A newer mustang and other assorted newer vehicles.

This is just a random observation but it looks to me like the American dream is alive and well.

 

[KissMy]

I am sitting in a Subway right now. It's presumably run/owned by these people from India or another similar country based on their stiff accents. The store is full of people. Whites, Mexicans & a couple light skinned blacks. I see a truck with two jet skies in the parking lot. A newer mustang and other assorted newer vehicles.

This is just a random observation but it looks to me like the American dream is alive and well.

Most of those cars are bought with debt. You can't see all those who can't afford Subway. They can't afford a car to get there. They are out harvesting, roofing, painting, mowing & taking care of elderly. I just saw 5 roofers & all their tools crammed into a wornout minivan. They packed their lunch & drank from a spigot.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I am sitting in a Subway right now. It's presumably run/owned by these people from India or another similar country based on their stiff accents. The store is full of people. Whites, Mexicans & a couple light skinned blacks. I see a truck with two jet skies in the parking lot. A newer mustang and other assorted newer vehicles.

This is just a random observation but it looks to me like the American dream is alive and well.

Most of those cars are bought with debt. You can't see all those who can't afford Subway. They can't afford a car to get there. They are out harvesting, roofing, painting, mowing & taking care of elderly. I just saw 5 roofers & all their tools crammed into a wornout minivan. They packed their lunch & drank from a spigot.

Roofers make a decent wage so I'm not sure what you're going on about. Packing a lunch is very common in the construction industry and drinking out of a water hose is too considering the heat.
You have NO IDEA what their financial status is. They may have thousands in savings or none at all. That choice is theirs and quite frankly none of your business.
Also being able to buy a car on credit requires a good credit rating which requires proof of prior financial responsibility. Very few people pay cash outright for new cars.

I hope you're not a detective because your deduction skills suck ass

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I am sitting in a Subway right now. It's presumably run/owned by these people from India or another similar country based on their stiff accents. The store is full of people. Whites, Mexicans & a couple light skinned blacks. I see a truck with two jet skies in the parking lot. A newer mustang and other assorted newer vehicles.

This is just a random observation but it looks to me like the American dream is alive and well.

Most of those cars are bought with debt. You can't see all those who can't afford Subway. They can't afford a car to get there. They are out harvesting, roofing, painting, mowing & taking care of elderly. I just saw 5 roofers & all their tools crammed into a wornout minivan. They packed their lunch & drank from a spigot.

The funny thing is those who complain about wages never go out and start a business themselves. Another observation I made are those who complain about the wealthy never invested a dime of their own money outside of a house or perhaps an IRA.

The beverage store I frequent is owned by an Indian who came here with little and worked night and day to save up money for his store. Although there are beverage stores in the area and of course grocery and convenient stores, his personality and his workers drew people to his location instead. He works night and day along with his wife. But his wife left the business to work a hotel they recently purchased. They own the hotel on top of the rental properties they purchased along the way.

So why can't people who were born here do the same? They could, but they would have to work night and day like this family. They would have to invest instead of spending their money on things they really don't have to have. That's how people from other countries find the American dream that native born Americans can't.

 

[Andylusion]

I got out of prison in 88/89. I now have a thriving remodeling business. From the bottom to the proverbial top.

If you are floundering in life, look in the mirror for the solution.

Of course here in the USA you can make a lot of money exploiting the hard work of others. But are your workers families thriving? Do your workers have retirement security? When their joints give out from all the hard construction work they do for you, you fire them. Who gives a shit after that right.

Again, this is another one of those brainless idiotic claims.

Ok, so let's ban all business. Because inherently a business by it's very nature exploits labor. So we want to end that exploitation.

Have you seen Cuba? Have you seen Venezuela? Have you seen Greece? Have you seen all the places where business owners went on a mass exodus?

Empty shelves.... empty stores.... high unemployment.... BUT HEY NO EXPLOITATION!

How dumb, does a person have to be, to think this is a win? Apparently all those Cubans were on rafts to escape the lack exploitation.

And whose job is it to take care of your retirement? Is it the employers job to take care of YOUR retirement? No. It is YOUR job to take care of YOUR retirement.

That's why you live on less than you make, and save the rest for retirement.

Last year I made less than $20,000 for the year. I still managed to put several thousand in retirement.

We have fallen so far that you believe poverty wage is the American Dream. Plus the several thousand you put away will be worthless for your retirement.

Can I just make up stuff you didn't say, and claim it's your position? So you have fallen so far, that Soviet Gulags are the workers paradise everyone wants!

Is that your idea of 'debating'? Can you want me to just follow your lead, and just make up crap you didn't say for the rest of this thread? Grow up. Too many childish people on here.

Poverty wage is a choice. You can make $30,000 a year by the end of the month, if you want to. I know a trucking company that will pay for your training, pay for your CDL, and have you making good money in 4 weeks.

People stay at McDonald's, because they don't want to work at something that is hard. Of course harder things pay more. Easy things don't.

When I was working at McDonald's, I had a shift manager with a degree in architecture. When I found this out, I nearly screamed.... WHY ARE YOU HERE?!.

"Well I wanted a job that was closer to home.... and was flexible on hours.... and I wanted to spend more time with my kids".

Earning under $10 an hour as a shift manager.... when she has a degree in architecture.

Unless you are mentally disabled... or you have a disability... or some bonkers circumstance.... the reason people earn poverty wages, is because they choose to.

I know a guy right now, that came here from Somalia, and runs a trucking company. No American education, self-taught English, no degrees, or skills. He worked his way up and started his own company.

Now if a guy from Somalia can make his own trucking company, and earn millions..... please explain to me how born Americans with an American education, and a university degree, are "stuck" in poverty wages?

We have the best economic system in the world. People come here all over the world, and become wealthy. Please explain how it's the system keeping people in poverty wages, when people who lived in poverty come here and end up wealthy?

The Mexican immigrant who set up a global drone firm - BBC News

How does this happen? Why wasn't he stuck in poverty wages? Maybe you are just full of crap?

 

[Andylusion]

I am sitting in a Subway right now. It's presumably run/owned by these people from India or another similar country based on their stiff accents. The store is full of people. Whites, Mexicans & a couple light skinned blacks. I see a truck with two jet skies in the parking lot. A newer mustang and other assorted newer vehicles.

This is just a random observation but it looks to me like the American dream is alive and well.

Most of those cars are bought with debt. You can't see all those who can't afford Subway. They can't afford a car to get there. They are out harvesting, roofing, painting, mowing & taking care of elderly. I just saw 5 roofers & all their tools crammed into a wornout minivan. They packed their lunch & drank from a spigot.

The funny thing is those who complain about wages never go out and start a business themselves. Another observation I made are those who complain about the wealthy never invested a dime of their own money outside of a house or perhaps an IRA.

The beverage store I frequent is owned by an Indian who came here with little and worked night and day to save up money for his store. Although there are beverage stores in the area and of course grocery and convenient stores, his personality and his workers drew people to his location instead. He works night and day along with his wife. But his wife left the business to work a hotel they recently purchased. They own the hotel on top of the rental properties they purchased along the way.

So why can't people who were born here do the same? They could, but they would have to work night and day like this family. They would have to invest instead of spending their money on things they really don't have to have. That's how people from other countries find the American dream that native born Americans can't.

There was a guy that had one of those cheese steak carts, and worked on the campus at Columbus State Community College. He was amazing, and his steak and brats were the best.

But he worked his butt off. Rain, hot sun, 3 inchs of snow, windy.... didn't matter. He was serving up fresh food.

He used the money he earned from that, to lease a place, and open his own store.

Anyone can succeed. It's a matter of putting in the effort, and acting wisely.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

People stay at McDonald's, because they don't want to work at something that is hard. Of course harder things pay more. Easy things don't.

That's only part of it.

A few years ago I rented to an unmarried couple. They were good tenants although they always paid rent late. They were both in their mid 20's when they left. Both worked fast food jobs.

So why didn't these young people venture out to find better paying jobs? After all, they barely made rent, drove early model vehicles that broke down all the time, and didn't have much in the way of extras.

They both loved to smoke pot, and lower paying jobs seldom drug test; better paying jobs usually do. So they opted to make lower wages because of their priorities. That's not the fast food joints fault, that's not Americas fault, it's their own fault.

Drug usage and drug testing keep a lot of people from advancing themselves financially. My employer interviews a lot of people when looking for new workers, but most of them admittedly can't pass a drug test. It's a big problem today.

 

[Andylusion]

People stay at McDonald's, because they don't want to work at something that is hard. Of course harder things pay more. Easy things don't.

That's only part of it.

A few years ago I rented to an unmarried couple. They were good tenants although they always paid rent late. They were both in their mid 20's when they left. Both worked fast food jobs.

So why didn't these young people venture out to find better paying jobs? After all, they barely made rent, drove early model vehicles that broke down all the time, and didn't have much in the way of extras.

They both loved to smoke pot, and lower paying jobs seldom drug test; better paying jobs usually do. So they opted to make lower wages because of their priorities. That's not the fast food joints fault, that's not Americas fault, it's their own fault.

Drug usage and drug testing keep a lot of people from advancing themselves financially. My employer interviews a lot of people when looking for new workers, but most of them admittedly can't pass a drug test. It's a big problem today.

Agreed. We had a guy come in to do warehouse work. They needed someone to drive forklift. The company was willing to pay $14/hour if the guy would stay through training. Instead he stole 3 cell phones worth about $400, and disappeared.

I wager for drug money. Regardless, he'll be poor the rest of his life, living that way.

That's not a fault of society, or the economic system.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

People stay at McDonald's, because they don't want to work at something that is hard. Of course harder things pay more. Easy things don't.

That's only part of it.

A few years ago I rented to an unmarried couple. They were good tenants although they always paid rent late. They were both in their mid 20's when they left. Both worked fast food jobs.

So why didn't these young people venture out to find better paying jobs? After all, they barely made rent, drove early model vehicles that broke down all the time, and didn't have much in the way of extras.

They both loved to smoke pot, and lower paying jobs seldom drug test; better paying jobs usually do. So they opted to make lower wages because of their priorities. That's not the fast food joints fault, that's not Americas fault, it's their own fault.

Drug usage and drug testing keep a lot of people from advancing themselves financially. My employer interviews a lot of people when looking for new workers, but most of them admittedly can't pass a drug test. It's a big problem today.

Agreed. We had a guy come in to do warehouse work. They needed someone to drive forklift. The company was willing to pay $14/hour if the guy would stay through training. Instead he stole 3 cell phones worth about $400, and disappeared.

I wager for drug money. Regardless, he'll be poor the rest of his life, living that way.

That's not a fault of society, or the economic system.

The worst part is he'll never get another job offer because of that theft. Any worthwhile job checks references. Even if they lie on the application, that's easy to find with all the online investigative services available. I use them from time to time for applicants for renting my apartments. It's amazing what kind of information they can find on anybody.

 

[Andylusion]

Before Reagan the USA was the World's Largest Creditor Nation!
After Reagan the USA is the World's Largest Debtor Nation!

ENJOY!

Okay...it's all Reagan's fault.

Does Obama get any blame? After all, he DOUBLED the national debt adding massively more debt than Reagan ever did.

Bush Tax Cuts & Spending Caused It! Obama was fixing the deficit. Clinton budget

Apparently you don't get simple math.

National debt 2008: $10 trillion (give or take a few)
National debt 2016: $20 trillion (give or take a few)

Trick question...Did the national debt double from 2008 to 2016?

Who was in office in 2008? Dumbass!
Obama budget didn't start until October 2009!
Hillary Clinton budget paid down $2 Trillion of debt.
Trump budget adds $4 Trillion to debt!
The economy is doing well. So why is Trump adding debt!!!

Obama budget didn't start until October 2009!

Bullshit.

The United States federal budget for fiscal year 2009 began as a spending request submitted by President George W. Bush to the 110th Congress. The final resolution written and submitted by the 110th Congress to be forwarded to the President was approved by the House on June 5, 2008.[5] The final spending bills for the budget were not signed into law until March 11, 2009 by President Barack Obama, nearly five and a half months after the fiscal year began.

2009 United States federal budget - Wikipedia

And even then, Bush didn't go just bonkers.

I wasn't blowing money pointlessly, until perhaps the very very end.

The deficit hitting $400 Billion early in his first term, was simply because he believed we needed to deal with Afghanistan and Iraq. Which any rational, logical, thinking individual who looked at the evidence given to Bush, would have concluded the same thing.

And the deficit fell every single year, from 2003 to 2007. In 2007, the deficit was barely $170 Billion dollar.

If nothing else had happened, we would have run a surplus by 2010.

But then the economy tanked. The $400 Billion dollar deficit in 2008, was not because Bush increased spending, but rather because tax revenue fell. Bush didn't know the tax revenue was going to fall so much. No one knew it would.

The only thing you can really blame Bush for, was the bailouts and first phase stimulus spending... which I and most conservatives were completely against.

So we can blame Bush for that... but Obama also voted in favor of both, and not only supported them, but continued them, and expanded them after getting into office.

Thus, even with this, Obama is just as much, if not more to blame than Bush.

 

[Boss]

Wait..... Obama submitted a budget?

I mean, other than the one so bad even Dems voted against it?

 

[Unkotare]

The American dream is alive and well.

 

[williepete]

And whose job is it to take care of your retirement? Is it the employers job to take care of YOUR retirement? No. It is YOUR job to take care of YOUR retirement.

Life is about choices, gang.

^^^

In '99 I lost most of what I had accumulated. I was 41. I retired 13 years later at 54. The American Dream is there for anyone who wants it.

"People always call it luck when you've acted more sensibly than they have."
-Anne Tyler