The Absurd Reality of the WOT

[Adam's Apple]

Barbarity and Civility: Eyeing the Terror War with Clarity
Editorial from The New Hampshire Union-Leader
July 11, 2005

IMMEDIATELY after Thursday's bombings in London, some on the far left blamed Prime Minister Tony Blair, saying it was his fault for sending troops to Iraq. This is the same poisoned thinking that blamed America for the 9/11 attacks and equated the treatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay with the acts of terrorists and totalitarian regimes.

Humiliating prisoners and placing them in stress positions might be considered cruelty by some. But it is not in the same universe with decapitation, electric shock and mass murder.

Then there is the matter of victim selection. From the start, the Islamist terrorists operated under a broadened definition of "enemy" that covered civilians as well as military personnel. And so they brought down the Twin Towers, exploded passenger trains in Spain, blew up Shiite mosques in Iraq and bombed London commuters.

Not incidentally, this mirrors the treatment meted out by the Taliban and Saddam Hussein. Even so slight an offense as open disagreement is met with jail, torture or death.

By contrast, when American military personnel kill civilians, it is by accident, and it is followed by swift apologies and restitution.

As we debate whether glovelessly handling a Koran is a violation of the Geneva Conventions, terrorists plot the destruction of all Western civilization, or at least as many "infidel" non-believers as they can possibly wipe out.

The CIA reportedly kidnaps Osama Mustafa Hassan Nasr, a radical cleric, in Milan, and ships him to Saudi Arabia, and there is widespread outrage. Meanwhile, al-Qaida kidnaps and executes Egyptian envoy Ihab al-Sherif, and there is only a murmur of mild indignation.

That the fundamental differences between the actions of Western governments and the actions of the Islamist terrorists have to be continually pointed out is one of life's absurd realities. That many of the people who need to have it pointed out are Westerners themselves is doubly absurd.

http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=57546

 

[Max Power]

Humiliating prisoners and placing them in stress positions might be considered cruelty by some.

This guy was so humiliated that he started bleeding!

And this guy was so humiliated that he DIED!

Why do people enjoy being torture apologists. "Humiliating prisoners and placing them in stress positions" doesn't kill people. The author is only hoping that nobody knows anything what actually happened in those prisons.

 

[OCA]

This guy was so humiliated that he started bleeding!

And this guy was so humiliated that he DIED!

Why do people enjoy being torture apologists. "Humiliating prisoners and placing them in stress positions" doesn't kill people. The author is only hoping that nobody knows anything what actually happened in those prisons.

Oh well tough shit. All's fair in love and war. I say humiliate them all, and if that don't work torture them until the dogs die.

Why do people enjoy being terrorist and Amrican enemy apologists and sympathizers?

 

[OCA]

Oh and thanks for the pics, those always give me a laugh and a pick me up!

 

[archangel]

This guy was so humiliated that he started bleeding!

And this guy was so humiliated that he DIED!

Why do people enjoy being torture apologists. "Humiliating prisoners and placing them in stress positions" doesn't kill people. The author is only hoping that nobody knows anything what actually happened in those prisons.

Hey why not post pics of those beheaded by these types also....go to www.michaelsavage.com paste and post the pics of victims of terrorists...ie: beheadings...put this into proper perspective!

 

[Yurt]

IMMEDIATELY after Thursday's bombings in London, some on the far left blamed Prime Minister Tony Blair, saying it was his fault for sending troops to Iraq.

You know, this reminds me. When I was in the sixth grade I got beat up at the end of the year. I was new to the area (San Diego downtown district). I came from Eureka, CA. Yeah, the two are not the same. This one kid did not like me, so we eventually fought, and he won.

Did I go home and cry to mommy that the teacher/principle was at fault? No. I said I got beat up (heeheh, got ice cream).

7th grade rolls around and I grow 4 inches or something. By the time I saw this kid, who beat me up again, we were outranked. Junior high changes alot. So I "beat him up." Not as bad as he did me the year before, but enough to make him almost cry.

Did he blame the teachers/principle?

No. He accepted that he caused the event and the event went directly back to him.

I know this is schoolyard logic, however, I can not believe these lefties who go around and act like the simple schoolyard logic is meaningless. Don't get me wrong, bullies are not good for society, but hear me out. The mass media newspapers want to go around and tell us that we (I in the case of my above story) had it coming simpy because I could not understant his hatred for me. According to them, I should have been more understanding of why he did not like me and why he wanted to beat me up.

Then, when I grew big enough to pound him, they would say that I am not acting as a compassionate person. You know what, on the school ground if I did not beat him up I would have been beat up again. Yes. Think back to your school yard days (at least those from the inner city).

Same thing here. Islam, for centuries, advances militarily into the christian lands. We defend by attacking back. Now, in the lefties eye, we were really wanting simply to expand our empire. Another topic, of which again they are wrong.

After the crusades and the end of muslims military expansion, things settle down.

Lately we have had the BULLY rise again. The new kid on the block (the US) is face to face with an age old bully who has been around for centuries (1,2,3,,4,5 and then sixth grade years in my analogy).

We have now grown by "inches," are are defeating the bully's attempt to convert us to Islam.

 

[archangel]

You know, this reminds me. When I was in the sixth grade I got beat up at the end of the year. I was new to the area (San Diego downtown district). I came from Eureka, CA. Yeah, the two are not the same. This one kid did not like me, so we eventually fought, and he won.

Did I go home and cry to mommy that the teacher/principle was at fault? No. I said I got beat up (heeheh, got ice cream).

7th grade rolls around and I grow 4 inches or something. By the time I saw this kid, who beat me up again, we were outranked. Junior high changes alot. So I "beat him up." Not as bad as he did me the year before, but enough to make him almost cry.

Did he blame the teachers/principle?

No. He accepted that he caused the event and the event went directly back to him.

I know this is schoolyard logic, however, I can not believe these lefties who go around and act like the simple schoolyard logic is meaningless. Don't get me wrong, bullies are not good for society, but hear me out. The mass media newspapers want to go around and tell us that we (I in the case of my above story) had it coming simpy because I could not understant his hatred for me. According to them, I should have been more understanding of why he did not like me and why he wanted to beat me up.

Then, when I grew big enough to pound him, they would say that I am not acting as a compassionate person. You know what, on the school ground if I did not beat him up I would have been beat up again. Yes. Think back to your school yard days (at least those from the inner city).

Same thing here. Islam, for centuries, advances militarily into the christian lands. We defend by attacking back. Now, in the lefties eye, we were really wanting simply to expand our empire. Another topic, of which again they are wrong.

After the crusades and the end of muslims military expansion, things settle down.

Lately we have had the BULLY rise again. The new kid on the block (the US) is face to face with an age old bully who has been around for centuries (1,2,3,,4,5 and then sixth grade years in my analogy).

We have now grown by "inches," are are defeating the bully's attempt to convert us to Islam.

Very fitting and profound...in todays world as well as the old!...kudos!

 

[dilloduck]

You know, this reminds me. When I was in the sixth grade I got beat up at the end of the year. I was new to the area (San Diego downtown district). I came from Eureka, CA. Yeah, the two are not the same. This one kid did not like me, so we eventually fought, and he won.

Did I go home and cry to mommy that the teacher/principle was at fault? No. I said I got beat up (heeheh, got ice cream).

7th grade rolls around and I grow 4 inches or something. By the time I saw this kid, who beat me up again, we were outranked. Junior high changes alot. So I "beat him up." Not as bad as he did me the year before, but enough to make him almost cry.

Did he blame the teachers/principle?

No. He accepted that he caused the event and the event went directly back to him.

I know this is schoolyard logic, however, I can not believe these lefties who go around and act like the simple schoolyard logic is meaningless. Don't get me wrong, bullies are not good for society, but hear me out. The mass media newspapers want to go around and tell us that we (I in the case of my above story) had it coming simpy because I could not understant his hatred for me. According to them, I should have been more understanding of why he did not like me and why he wanted to beat me up.

Then, when I grew big enough to pound him, they would say that I am not acting as a compassionate person. You know what, on the school ground if I did not beat him up I would have been beat up again. Yes. Think back to your school yard days (at least those from the inner city).

Same thing here. Islam, for centuries, advances militarily into the christian lands. We defend by attacking back. Now, in the lefties eye, we were really wanting simply to expand our empire. Another topic, of which again they are wrong.

After the crusades and the end of muslims military expansion, things settle down.

Lately we have had the BULLY rise again. The new kid on the block (the US) is face to face with an age old bully who has been around for centuries (1,2,3,,4,5 and then sixth grade years in my analogy).

We have now grown by "inches," are are defeating the bully's attempt to convert us to Islam.

Hmmm Ok so the new bully rises up and wants the west to get the hell out of thier land. Some feel as if we should. Why? Do they think it would be appropriate for the US to tell Muslims to get out our land ? I don't think so. Do these protestors feel as if America is thier land or do they feel as if the "government" has taken away land from Americans so they get some vicarious thrill out of Muslims attacking the government of America ? If the Muslims succeed will the "US deserves it" crowd cheer and have a party" or is there some event that will be the signal for them to say "ok thats enough---stop messing with us now" ?

On the other hand, if Muslims are so screwed up, why are we protecting so many of them? Why do we try to distinguish between good ones or bad ones?
Why do we find it neccessary to find out which terrorist group killed folks this time? Does it matter? If the US leaves Iraq won't there be a civil war where everyone killed will be a muslim? Isn't that a good thing? If the US stays should we send more troops, declare martial law and kill everyone who doesn't go by it? If Muslims are so bad, why do we think they can form a peaceful democracy? Bad Muslims--do we really know who they are or how to stop them? I'm beginning to wonder.

 

[Gunny]

Hmmm Ok so the new bully rises up and wants the west to get the hell out of thier land. Some feel as if we should. Why? Do they think it would be appropriate for the US to tell Muslims to get out our land ? I don't think so. Do these protestors feel as if America is thier land or do they feel as if the "government" has taken away land from Americans so they get some vicarious thrill out of Muslims attacking the government of America ? If the Muslims succeed will the "US deserves it" crowd cheer and have a party" or is there some event that will be the signal for them to say "ok thats enough---stop messing with us now" ?

Problem with this statement is we were INVITED into the Middle East by Saudi Arabia and the governement of Kuwait. It was at THAT time OBL declared war on the US for daring to defile his precious, barren soil.
On the other hand, if Muslims are so screwed up, why are we protecting so many of them? Why do we try to distinguish between good ones or bad ones?
Why do we find it neccessary to find out which terrorist group killed folks this time? Does it matter? If the US leaves Iraq won't there be a civil war where everyone killed will be a muslim? Isn't that a good thing? If the US stays should we send more troops, declare martial law and kill everyone who doesn't go by it? If Muslims are so bad, why do we think they can form a peaceful democracy? Bad Muslims--do we really know who they are or how to stop them? I'm beginning to wonder.

Good point. ALL radical, US hating Muslims bent on destroying our society are our enemies and should be treated as such. Instead, we let them teach Wahabbism in mosques within our own damned borders.

They use our own First Amendment rights to screw us in the rear.

 

[dilloduck]

Good point. ALL radical, US hating Muslims bent on destroying our society are our enemies and should be treated as such. Instead, we let them teach Wahabbism in mosques within our own damned borders.

They use our own First Amendment rights to screw us in the rear.

Seems to me that we are relying solely on the newly trained Iraqi military to provide the US with an exit opportunity from Iraq but I don't see a lot of media coverage of them ( not that I really expect it ). If they can't muster into a fighting force with high moral, national pride and the support of a majority of the Iraqi people, we will be watching a slaughter as soon as our troops leave. Arabs from everywhere will put em on thier hit list.

 

[Gunny]

Seems to me that we are relying solely on the newly trained Iraqi military to provide the US with an exit opportunity from Iraq but I don't see a lot of media coverage of them ( not that I really expect it ). If they can't muster into a fighting force with high moral, national pride and the support of a majority of the Iraqi people, we will be watching a slaughter as soon as our troops leave. Arabs from everywhere will put em on thier hit list.

The left is forcing it. They want dates and times. They've been squealing since Day One. They do not have the staying power to finish the job, and their piss-poor morale is infectious.

If ANYTHING about this war can be compared to Vietnam, it's the way the left derailed a victory by dividing this nation. A perfect case in point is Tet 68. The VC was virtually destroyed, as well as several NVA divisions, not to mention all the materiel and weapons lost to them. It was a resounding military victory for the US.

Yet the sheeple in this nation believed we lost because "walter said so." It turned sharply downhill at that point.

Are we going to have another Tet 68 in Iraq? Remains to be seen. If we can remain in Iraq until we have built a confident force and the people want democracy, we will be successful.

If we have another Tet 68, we will likely do as you say and hand it over to the Iraqis whether or not they are ready.

 

[dilloduck]

The left is forcing it. They want dates and times. They've been squealing since Day One. They do not have the staying power to finish the job, and their piss-poor morale is infectious.

If ANYTHING about this war can be compared to Vietnam, it's the way the left derailed a victory by dividing this nation. A perfect case in point is Tet 68. The VC was virtually destroyed, as well as several NVA divisions, not to mention all the materiel and weapons lost to them. It was a resounding military victory for the US.

Yet the sheeple in this nation believed we lost because "walter said so." It turned sharply downhill at that point.

Are we going to have another Tet 68 in Iraq? Remains to be seen. If we can remain in Iraq until we have built a confident force and the people want democracy, we will be successful.

If we have another Tet 68, we will likely do as you say and hand it over to the Iraqis whether or not they are ready.

I would never make the "nam" comparison because it's meaning has become so convoluted. I just am starting to hear noises like we are thinking about troop reduction and NOT hearing any impressive commentary regarding the Iraqi security forces. Won't the removal of US presence in Iraq under any conditions or at any time be seen as victory by extremists ?

 

[Gunny]

I would never make the "nam" comparison because it's meaning has become so convoluted. I just am starting to hear noises like we are thinking about troop reduction and NOT hearing any impressive commentary regarding the Iraqi security forces. Won't the removal of US presence in Iraq under any conditions or at any time be seen as victory by extremists ?

No, I made the comparison. You're off the hook. I do not believe however that I convoluted any meaning.

The removal of US troops prior to the Government of Iraq being self-sufficient will be a victory for the extremists, no doubt.

IMO, we should have more troops on the ground, and doing what they're trained to do, not play traffic cop or reactionary force. I'm sure I could make the apologista Nations and leftists squeal like pigs, but I bet I could secure the borders and drive anyone within them to ground who doesn't want to play nice.

But then, I think that's why they keep sr enlisted Marines on leashes.

 

[Theregular]

So let me get this straight, the american army comes to Iraq because there are wepons of mass destruction there, which turns out they where all lies, and all the lies that Bush and Blair told the whole world with a straight face is not the issue, when the american army kills thousands of civilians, that's fine, and when these people fight back, they are terrorists, what kind of logic is that!

You guys know nothing of whats really going on in Iraq or the arabic world, nothing at all. Did you even ask if these guys in the pictures had anything to do with any bombings, no you just blame them for 9/11 although everyone knows that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11

2 million civilinas died in Iraq because of the sanctions over 10 years, thats not terrorism to you? or is it that your humans and they are not!!

Did you ever stop and ask yourself, why is it there are lots of muslims who hatre the US? ofcorse you didnt, you just believe they are terrorists who like to kill people! well thats not true, its a reaction for all the crimes that was done against them. I condem the London bombings, but you must understand why all of this is going on, its not a hollywood movie, which seems you guys think it is, the good guys and the terrorists!

The american army, from the minute they came to Iraq commited crimes against humanity, in a way i am sure lots of you dont even know, you dont see 5% of whats really going on in Iraq through your media.

Then there is the matter of victim selection. From the start, the Islamist terrorists operated under a broadened definition of "enemy" that covered civilians as well as military personnel

And when the b-52's bomb cities and villages killing thousands, is there any victim selection? I dont think so, when the cruise missilies hit the amariya shlter killing hundreds of civilians in it in Baghdad (which i am sure 99% of you dont know about) isnt that mass murder?!

That the fundamental differences between the actions of Western governments and the actions of the Islamist terrorists have to be continually pointed out is one of life's absurd realities. That many of the people who need to have it pointed out are Westerners themselves is doubly absurd.

Again, your not looking at the picture as whole, why dont remember the 2 million who where killed by the sanctions?? for wepons that never existed!!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

So let me get this straight, the american army comes to Iraq because there are wepons of mass destruction there, which turns out they where all lies, and all the lies that Bush and Blair told the whole world with a straight face is not the issue, when the american army kills thousands of civilians, that's fine, and when these people fight back, they are terrorists, what kind of logic is that!

Firstly, there many valid reasons for the invasion. Secondly it's not "the people" fighting back; it's terrorists who don't want to lose control of the region.

You guys know nothing of whats really going on in Iraq or the arabic world, nothing at all. Did you even ask if these guys in the pictures had anything to do with any bombings, no you just blame them for 9/11 although everyone knows that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11

But the 9/11 commission report itself says saddam had connections to terror networks, and our war on terror extends even to those who aid and abet terrorists .

2 million civilinas died in Iraq because of the sanctions over 10 years, thats not terrorism to you? or is it that your humans and they are not!!

Those death weren't due to the sanctions, fool. They were due to Saddam using the money for palaces instead of food for people.

Did you ever stop and ask yourself, why is it there are lots of muslims who hatre the US? ofcorse you didnt, you just believe they are terrorists who like to kill people!

they were taught to hate us by tyrants who keep control of THEIR OWN SOCIETIES through force and misinformation, and are threatened by any proliferation of freedom. They don't want their populations to see and desire freedom. Freedom is a threat to tyranny, see?

well thats not true, its a reaction for all the crimes that was done against them. I condem the London bombings, but you must understand why all of this is going on, its not a hollywood movie, which seems you guys think it is, the good guys and the terrorists!

You need to learn history. The crusades were a reaction against muslim conquest. And you seem to think it's the bad guys versus the terrorists. And your worldview is based on fiction, like a movie.

The american army, from the minute they came to Iraq commited crimes against humanity, in a way i am sure lots of you dont even know, you dont see 5% of whats really going on in Iraq through your media.

And when the b-52's bomb cities and villages killing thousands, is there any victim selection? I dont think so, when the cruise missilies hit the amariya shlter killing hundreds of civilians in it in Baghdad (which i am sure 99% of you dont know about) isnt that mass murder?!

Again, your not looking at the picture as whole, why dont remember the 2 million who where killed by the sanctions?? for wepons that never existed!!

Your mind was a terrible thing to have been wasted. I pray for you in your state of abject ignorance.

 

[Theregular]

Firstly, there many valid reasons for the invasion. Secondly it's not "the people" fighting back; it's terrorists who don't want to lose control of the region.

haha, again the hollywood talk, terrorists you say, could you please tell me why are they terrorists?? is it because they are fighting an ouccpying force?? a force that us by the UN laws an accupying force and the people of Iraq have every right to fight back the occupiers, please go and read the UN rules.
2nd of all its clear to me that all of your assumptions and decisions are based on the lies your media has been teaching over years, a US general admited him self that there are around 1000 arabs fighting along side the iraqi's and that the main force of the resistance movement is based on iraqi people, with his own words he said that there are around 400,000 people who help and shelter those "terrorists"

And is it freedom that you say the american army is bringing with his tanks, well all that we see is destruction, ill be posting some pics soon about the crimes the US forced are comitting in Iraq, just as they did in vietnam, mass murders for civilians!

Those death weren't due to the sanctions, fool. They were due to Saddam using the money for palaces instead of food for people.

You really cracked me up with this, Saddam had palices long before the sanctions and the people did not starve, the fact is that 2 million people died because of the sanctions, if the sanctions didn't exist these people wouldnt have died.

 

[Adam's Apple]

for wepons that never existed!!

Tell that to the Kurds, many of whom were massacred by Saddam's chemical weapons following the first Gulf War. Or the Israelis who felt so threatened by Saddam's nuclear capabilities that they risked their own lives to destroy the nuclear plants he was building.

I would advise you to read Kathianne's post "Iraq and Al Quada" for some real up-to-date information that has come to light from captured intelligence documents and intelligence gathered from interrogating captured terrorists. That old liberal myth is coming apart.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

haha, again the hollywood talk, terrorists you say, could you please tell me why are they terrorists?? is it because they are fighting an ouccpying force?? a force that us by the UN laws an accupying force and the people of Iraq have every right to fight back the occupiers, please go and read the UN rules.
2nd of all its clear to me that all of your assumptions and decisions are based on the lies your media has been teaching over years, a US general admited him self that there are around 1000 arabs fighting along side the iraqi's and that the main force of the resistance movement is based on iraqi people, with his own words he said that there are around 400,000 people who help and shelter those "terrorists"

And is it freedom that you say the american army is bringing with his tanks, well all that we see is destruction, ill be posting some pics soon about the crimes the US forced are comitting in Iraq, just as they did in vietnam, mass murders for civilians!


You really cracked me up with this, Saddam had palices long before the sanctions and the people did not starve, the fact is that 2 million people died because of the sanctions, if the sanctions didn't exist these people wouldnt have died.

That's right. There are no terrorists. It's all just Hollywood talk. Do you see why your candidates are losing. Your willingness to ignore external threats for internal politics reveals your fundamental selfishness and evil. Good mornin'!

 

[freeandfun1]

I like how he says the UN says the people of Iraq can fight back, yet he ignores the fact that Hussein was in violation of the UN cease-fire agreement that stated if he became non-compliant, the hostilities would resume. Selective memory I guess.

 

[freeandfun1]

You really cracked me up with this, Saddam had palices long before the sanctions and the people did not starve, the fact is that 2 million people died because of the sanctions, if the sanctions didn't exist these people wouldnt have died.

You're ignorance is astounding.