The 4.6 Trillion dollar driver of the Stock Market Bubble is Toast for 2020

[Tom Paine 1949]

They also tend to incinerate corporate profits

so then liberals must love that???

The point is that in Washington among Establishment politicians, there are legions of corrupted Democrats as well as Republicans. Trump too always supported stock buybacks (and Fed manipulated zero interest rates) to goose asset values. Stock buybacks were traditionally a central corporate Republican issue, opposed by progressive Democrats but supported by the Clintons and Schumers.

Now Trump has moved to limit stock buybacks only temporarily and only to companies receiving direct government loans — which is the same half-assed position as the Clintons and Schumers.

But let’s be real. You are just making partisan jive talk here, and are not at all concerned with the systemic failures and corruption of “crony capitalism.” Am I wrong about this?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

stock buybacks are only one corrupting and distorting aspect of our system's poor functioning,

This is somewhat true but it is largely because of liberal tax greed trying to steal tax revenue in 1000 different ways. If a corp used its money to buy back shares the sellers must pay capital gains tax, but if they distribute them as dividends those dividends are taxed at a high rate. Thus you see liberal govt encourages the buybacks you hate and makes it harder for investors to get feedback from share price movements.

Thomas Paine:
"We still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping at the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised to furnish new pretenses for revenue and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without a tribute."

-- Thomas Paine

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

the systemic failures and corruption of “crony capitalism.” Am I wrong about this?

wrong, idiotic, and liberal. Where is failure and corruption in buybacks, i.e., a corporation distributing its profits??????????????????

Are you getting the idea now that being liberal means being wrong?

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Edward Balamante writes:
“Do you want to be the lib Nazi bureaucrat who tells them what decision is best when balancing customers interests against owners interests?? If owners are not rewarded why would they risk investing in a business?”

Stock market investments should be investments in productive and profit-seeking corporations, and not gambling in a financial casino or “ponzy scheme“ rigged in favor of casino operators and destined to collapse (and be bailed out by taxpayers). By weakening corporate governance and almost guaranteeing corruption in corporate suites they hurt the competitiveness of American industry. The previous laws in place (until 1983) banning buybacks as inherently manipulative worked better than today’s. The role of Congress (not individual bureaucrats) is to pass laws which guarantee the fairness of our market system, not to obey the dictates of greedy and short-sighted financial manipulators. Corporations are legal institutions chartered by the state with certain rights and obligations, and markets are regulated according to rules that Congress can — and in this case should change.

There are other ways to address this problem of course, like strictly regulating or even outlawing stock option executive compensation, fixing executive salaries, etc., but ending stock buybacks is a historically proven minimalist measure which deals with several systemic problems.

Of course talk of investors being actual “owners” of a business is meaningless and purely theoretical for most shareholders of big corporations. The whole point is to make sure corporations are not ripped off by insiders so that normal shareholders and long-term stakeholders are protected, and markets are more stable and dependent on real profit generation.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Stock market investments should be investments in productive and profit-seeking corporations, and not gambling in a financial casino or “ponzy scheme“ rigged in favor of casino operators and destined to collapse (and be bailed out by taxpayers).

I agree but your subject is buybacks. For 6th time: can you tell us why you oppose them and what you want businesses to do with their profits???????

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

P.S. Your Paine quote about the “greedy hand of government” was aimed specifically at Royal British tax collectors in a particular polemic in England aimed at corrupt placeholders appointed by the court. It had nothing to do with industrial corporations (which did not exist at that time) or financial manipulation of markets. You should know that Paine was an abolitionist — when human slavery was a main creator and store of capital and capitalist profit — and a dedicated internationalist and anti-imperialist. He was also among the first to raise the idea of a welfare state guaranteeing funds and a basic universal distribution grant to citizens, based on a land tax.

P.S. I already answered your comment #25 questions earlier in response to another. Please see above. In general, I don’t want “bureaucrats in government” to tell corporations how to invest their capital, but government has the right to tax, regulate, and guide. Of course big corporations should never be run primarily to enrich CEOs with no real interest or connection to the company and its stakeholders, which is too often the case and part of the reason for the de-industrialization of our country.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

but ending stock buybacks is a historically proven minimalist measure which deals with several systemic problems.

can you tell us even one of these systemic problems???

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The whole point is to make sure corporations are not ripped off by insiders so that normal shareholders and long-term stakeholders are protected,

well then you must love stock buybacks since largest single group of stock holders are American pensioners. Are you opposed American pensioner's shares going up in value so they can enjoy a better retirement? Do you desire a worse retirement for them??

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

P.S. Your Paine quote about the “greedy hand of government” was aimed specifically at Royal British tax collectors

Yes the American revolution was mostly about Royal British Tax collectors and building a new country where free people didn't have liberal govt grasping in every corner at the profits of industry!!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

P.S. Your Paine quote about the “greedy hand of government” was aimed specifically at Royal British tax collectors in a particular polemic in England aimed at corrupt placeholders appointed by the courts.

???? Paine said greedy govt gasping at creative industry to steal its profits, nothing about taxing corrupt court appointees.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. You should know that Paine was an abolitionist

our subject is buybacks! Why are you running from it?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Edward Balamante writes:
“Do you want to be the lib Nazi bureaucrat who tells them what decision is best when balancing customers interests against owners interests?? If owners are not rewarded why would they risk investing in a business?”

Stock market investments should be investments in productive and profit-seeking corporations, and not gambling in a financial casino or “ponzy scheme“ rigged in favor of casino operators and destined to collapse (and be bailed out by taxpayers). By weakening corporate governance and almost guaranteeing corruption in corporate suites they hurt the competitiveness of American industry. The previous laws in place (until 1983) banning buybacks as inherently manipulative worked better than today’s. The role of Congress (not individual bureaucrats) is to pass laws which guarantee the fairness of our market system, not to obey the dictates of greedy and short-sighted financial manipulators. Corporations are legal institutions chartered by the state with certain rights and obligations, and markets are regulated according to rules that Congress can — and in this case should change.

There are other ways to address this problem of course, like strictly regulating or even outlawing stock option executive compensation, fixing executive salaries, etc., but ending stock buybacks is a historically proven minimalist measure which deals with several systemic problems.

Of course talk of investors being actual “owners” of a business is meaningless and purely theoretical for most shareholders of big corporations. The whole point is to make sure corporations are not ripped off by insiders so that normal shareholders and long-term stakeholders are protected, and markets are more stable and dependent on real profit generation.

Stock market investments should be investments in productive and profit-seeking corporations, and not gambling in a financial casino

And of course, you know best.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

P.S. Your Paine quote about the “greedy hand of government” was aimed specifically at Royal British tax collectors in a particular polemic in England aimed at corrupt placeholders appointed by the courts. It had nothing to do with industrial corporations (which did not exist at that time) or financial manipulation of markets.

actually it had 100% to do with libcommiesocialistmonarchial central govts interfering with industry and thereby causing centuries centuries of dire poverty. This is why Paine was against government.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

In general, I don’t want “bureaucrats in government” to tell corporations how to invest their capital, but government has the right to tax, regulate, and guide. Of course big corporations should never be run primarily to enrich CEOs with no real interest or connection to the company and its stakeholders, which is too often the case and part of the reason for the de-industrialization of our country.

your thread is about buybacks!!!!!! Did you give up on it??? Trying to wriggle away on to another subject??

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

I’m finished wasting time with you, Mr. Baiamonte. Paine was not against government. He was for an enlightened republic that served the people.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Of course big corporations should never be run primarily to enrich CEOs

more total liberal insanity. If one corporation is run for CEO and it competitor is run for customers which will survive?? Do you even know that capitalism is competitive with 10,000 a month going bankrupt??

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I’m finished wasting time with you, Mr. Baiamonte. Paine was not against government. He was for an enlightened republic that served the people.

Paine was in fact against govt and saw it as source of century after century of human poverty and misery!!

Here is the guote you totally misunderstood!!

"He could not suppose that the hordes of miserable poor with which old countries abound could be any other than those who had not yet had time to provide for themselves. Little would he think they were the consequence of what in such countries they call government."

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I’m finished wasting time with you, Mr. Baiamonte..

translation: I am finished with conservatives and libertarians because I always get crushed when I dare debate them!

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Zzzz.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Paine was not against government. He was for an enlightened republic that served the people.

yes, served the people by respecting their freedom and keeping their greedy hands out of their pockets!. Do you want to see the quote again?