The 2nd amendment does not say "Except for felons" or "Except as provided by law". Why not?

[Ravi]

why did you have to beg?

because they only issue one if you have "a reason", or you know someone.

Can you link to that?

Getting A NYC Handgun Permit | New York City Guns

According to the application that is only if you are getting the permit so you can use your gun as part of your employment.

That is actually a reason that lets you bypass the 'only if we say so" part of the permit, and then you can only carry when on the job.

My question is, doesn't this seem like "infringement" to you?

I looked at the application. If you are not being required by your employer to carry a gun on the job then it appears that you do not need to submit "a reason" for your CCW.

 

[jon_berzerk]

The process for obtaining a handgun license in New York City is long (between 3 – 6 months, and waits up to 8 months are not uncommon),

that right there is too much of an infringement

 

[martybegan]

because they only issue one if you have "a reason", or you know someone.

Can you link to that?

Getting A NYC Handgun Permit | New York City Guns

According to the application that is only if you are getting the permit so you can use your gun as part of your employment.

That is actually a reason that lets you bypass the 'only if we say so" part of the permit, and then you can only carry when on the job.

My question is, doesn't this seem like "infringement" to you?

I looked at the application. If you are not being required by your employer to carry a gun on the job then it appears that you do not need to submit "a reason" for your CCW.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/permits/HandGunLicenseApplicationFormsComplete.pdf

They don't issue a CCW unless you meet the requirements of the form, its not that the form is only needed for business purposes.

If I went to NYPD and said I wanted a CCW "because it is my right" they would deny me.

 

[Ravi]

Can you link to that?

Getting A NYC Handgun Permit | New York City Guns

According to the application that is only if you are getting the permit so you can use your gun as part of your employment.

That is actually a reason that lets you bypass the 'only if we say so" part of the permit, and then you can only carry when on the job.

My question is, doesn't this seem like "infringement" to you?

I looked at the application. If you are not being required by your employer to carry a gun on the job then it appears that you do not need to submit "a reason" for your CCW.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/permits/HandGunLicenseApplicationFormsComplete.pdf

They don't issue a CCW unless you meet the requirements of the form, its not that the form is only needed for business purposes.

If I went to NYPD and said I wanted a CCW "because it is my right" they would deny me.

Yes, that is what I looked at. It clearly states in conjunction of employment. As does the page three that it refers you to.

 

[martybegan]

Getting A NYC Handgun Permit | New York City Guns

According to the application that is only if you are getting the permit so you can use your gun as part of your employment.

That is actually a reason that lets you bypass the 'only if we say so" part of the permit, and then you can only carry when on the job.

My question is, doesn't this seem like "infringement" to you?

I looked at the application. If you are not being required by your employer to carry a gun on the job then it appears that you do not need to submit "a reason" for your CCW.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/permits/HandGunLicenseApplicationFormsComplete.pdf

They don't issue a CCW unless you meet the requirements of the form, its not that the form is only needed for business purposes.

If I went to NYPD and said I wanted a CCW "because it is my right" they would deny me.

Yes, that is what I looked at. It clearly states in conjunction of employment. As does the page three that it refers you to.

And that is the only reason you will get one, scroll down to the end and look at the types of CCW they issue, in no case is there one for "because I want one".

 

[M14 Shooter]

The process for obtaining a handgun license in New York City is long (between 3 – 6 months, and waits up to 8 months are not uncommon),

that right there is too much of an infringement

It also coats $500.
Imagine the screams from the left if you needed a $500 permit for an abortion.

 

[Ravi]

According to the application that is only if you are getting the permit so you can use your gun as part of your employment.

That is actually a reason that lets you bypass the 'only if we say so" part of the permit, and then you can only carry when on the job.

My question is, doesn't this seem like "infringement" to you?

I looked at the application. If you are not being required by your employer to carry a gun on the job then it appears that you do not need to submit "a reason" for your CCW.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/permits/HandGunLicenseApplicationFormsComplete.pdf

They don't issue a CCW unless you meet the requirements of the form, its not that the form is only needed for business purposes.

If I went to NYPD and said I wanted a CCW "because it is my right" they would deny me.

Yes, that is what I looked at. It clearly states in conjunction of employment. As does the page three that it refers you to.

And that is the only reason you will get one, scroll down to the end and look at the types of CCW they issue, in no case is there one for "because I want one".

They all pertain to business licenses. There is no where in that form that I can see where an individual needs to give a reason for having a CCW unrelated to a business requirement.

 

[martybegan]

That is actually a reason that lets you bypass the 'only if we say so" part of the permit, and then you can only carry when on the job.

My question is, doesn't this seem like "infringement" to you?

I looked at the application. If you are not being required by your employer to carry a gun on the job then it appears that you do not need to submit "a reason" for your CCW.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/permits/HandGunLicenseApplicationFormsComplete.pdf

They don't issue a CCW unless you meet the requirements of the form, its not that the form is only needed for business purposes.

If I went to NYPD and said I wanted a CCW "because it is my right" they would deny me.

Yes, that is what I looked at. It clearly states in conjunction of employment. As does the page three that it refers you to.

And that is the only reason you will get one, scroll down to the end and look at the types of CCW they issue, in no case is there one for "because I want one".

They all pertain to business licenses. There is no where in that form that I can see where an individual needs to give a reason for having a CCW unrelated to a business requirement.

They don't issue a CCW UNLESS you have a business and compelling reason. Again, you are not arguing the point, but piddling on part of the concept.

My question is, do you agree that NYPD should be able to stop me from getting a CCW "just because"?

 

[ThoughtCrimes]

You're just as wrong as you were before.

True enough. I was right then, and I'm right now.

Hazlnut gave you Justice Scalia's take

TRANSLATION: little hazelnut didn't dare quote what the 2nd amendment actually says, so he changed the subject and talked about what judges said instead.

In my own Post #140, I cited a series of gun control laws passed by Congress

TRANSLATION: I didn't dare talk about what the 2nd amendment actually says either, so I changed the subject as quickly as little hazlnut did, and talked abut what Congress said instead.

So far no one has been able to point out where the 2nd amendment allows for ANY exceptions to its ban on govt restricting guns. All they can do is point to what people who DIDNT write the 2nd, say... people who likewise couldn't show where the 2nd allowed any exceptions, and so had to make them up out of thin air. And hope to fool people into believing the Framers didn't mean what they wrote and ratified.

The only people who have ANY authority to make exceptions to what the 2nd says, are juries.

But liberals hate that, since they know juries will excuse cops (sometimes) and not excuse criminals (usually) - the exact opposite of what the liberal fanatics want.

Worse, the liberal fanatics know that they (and their cohorts in the press) can't influence the jury. It's the worst of all worlds for the liberal fanatics, who depend on the law not being upheld.

So according to you, Congress had no business passing those gun control statutes and SCOTUS had no business in ruling on those cases like Heller, et al.

THAT IS CORRECT.


IF YOU CHOOSE TO BELIEVE OTHERWISE THEN

You're clueless about the Law and the Constitution!

Then are you claiming that Articles II & III of the Constitution are meaningless and without force? Are you saying that SCOTUS had no power to nullify the handgun restrictions in the District of Columbia in DC v. Heller? Are you saying Congress doesn't have the power to carry out all of its duties under the Constitution? Any reasonable person knows you are dead fucking WRONG!

One cannot have it both ways, but the narcissist, the selfish and the lawless often try!

 

[Ravi]

I looked at the application. If you are not being required by your employer to carry a gun on the job then it appears that you do not need to submit "a reason" for your CCW.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/permits/HandGunLicenseApplicationFormsComplete.pdf

They don't issue a CCW unless you meet the requirements of the form, its not that the form is only needed for business purposes.

If I went to NYPD and said I wanted a CCW "because it is my right" they would deny me.

Yes, that is what I looked at. It clearly states in conjunction of employment. As does the page three that it refers you to.

And that is the only reason you will get one, scroll down to the end and look at the types of CCW they issue, in no case is there one for "because I want one".

They all pertain to business licenses. There is no where in that form that I can see where an individual needs to give a reason for having a CCW unrelated to a business requirement.

They don't issue a CCW UNLESS you have a business and compelling reason. Again, you are not arguing the point, but piddling on part of the concept.

My question is, do you agree that NYPD should be able to stop me from getting a CCW "just because"?

You aren't making any sense. First you say you have to BEG to get for a CCW and then you say they are only issued to people that are required to have them for their job. It can't be both.

I don't think the NYPD should be able to stop you from getting a CCW "just because" but I am not seeing where they have that power.

 

[martybegan]

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/permits/HandGunLicenseApplicationFormsComplete.pdf

They don't issue a CCW unless you meet the requirements of the form, its not that the form is only needed for business purposes.

If I went to NYPD and said I wanted a CCW "because it is my right" they would deny me.

Yes, that is what I looked at. It clearly states in conjunction of employment. As does the page three that it refers you to.

And that is the only reason you will get one, scroll down to the end and look at the types of CCW they issue, in no case is there one for "because I want one".

They all pertain to business licenses. There is no where in that form that I can see where an individual needs to give a reason for having a CCW unrelated to a business requirement.

They don't issue a CCW UNLESS you have a business and compelling reason. Again, you are not arguing the point, but piddling on part of the concept.

My question is, do you agree that NYPD should be able to stop me from getting a CCW "just because"?

You aren't making any sense. First you say you have to BEG to get for a CCW and then you say they are only issued to people that are required to have them for their job. It can't be both.

I don't think the NYPD should be able to stop you from getting a CCW "just because" but I am not seeing where they have that power.

There is no category for a CCW that does not include a "for cause" reason, or a business. and even then you have to describe why you want the CCW.

New York is a "may issue" state, not a shall issue state.

 

[Ravi]

Yes, that is what I looked at. It clearly states in conjunction of employment. As does the page three that it refers you to.

And that is the only reason you will get one, scroll down to the end and look at the types of CCW they issue, in no case is there one for "because I want one".

They all pertain to business licenses. There is no where in that form that I can see where an individual needs to give a reason for having a CCW unrelated to a business requirement.

They don't issue a CCW UNLESS you have a business and compelling reason. Again, you are not arguing the point, but piddling on part of the concept.

My question is, do you agree that NYPD should be able to stop me from getting a CCW "just because"?

You aren't making any sense. First you say you have to BEG to get for a CCW and then you say they are only issued to people that are required to have them for their job. It can't be both.

I don't think the NYPD should be able to stop you from getting a CCW "just because" but I am not seeing where they have that power.

There is no category for a CCW that does not include a "for cause" reason, or a business. and even then you have to describe why you want the CCW.

New York is a "may issue" state, not a shall issue state.

Please show me how page three of that application applies to individuals. It clearly applies to people having to carry because of their job. The form would not need to be filled out otherwise.

 

[martybegan]

And that is the only reason you will get one, scroll down to the end and look at the types of CCW they issue, in no case is there one for "because I want one".

They all pertain to business licenses. There is no where in that form that I can see where an individual needs to give a reason for having a CCW unrelated to a business requirement.

They don't issue a CCW UNLESS you have a business and compelling reason. Again, you are not arguing the point, but piddling on part of the concept.

My question is, do you agree that NYPD should be able to stop me from getting a CCW "just because"?

You aren't making any sense. First you say you have to BEG to get for a CCW and then you say they are only issued to people that are required to have them for their job. It can't be both.

I don't think the NYPD should be able to stop you from getting a CCW "just because" but I am not seeing where they have that power.

There is no category for a CCW that does not include a "for cause" reason, or a business. and even then you have to describe why you want the CCW.

New York is a "may issue" state, not a shall issue state.

Please show me how page three of that application applies to individuals. It clearly applies to people having to carry because of their job. The form would not need to be filled out otherwise.

So you think a person can just walk up to the NYPD and ask for a CCW? there is no form because they DONT ALLOW IT.

 

[Ravi]

They all pertain to business licenses. There is no where in that form that I can see where an individual needs to give a reason for having a CCW unrelated to a business requirement.

They don't issue a CCW UNLESS you have a business and compelling reason. Again, you are not arguing the point, but piddling on part of the concept.

My question is, do you agree that NYPD should be able to stop me from getting a CCW "just because"?

You aren't making any sense. First you say you have to BEG to get for a CCW and then you say they are only issued to people that are required to have them for their job. It can't be both.

I don't think the NYPD should be able to stop you from getting a CCW "just because" but I am not seeing where they have that power.

There is no category for a CCW that does not include a "for cause" reason, or a business. and even then you have to describe why you want the CCW.

New York is a "may issue" state, not a shall issue state.

Please show me how page three of that application applies to individuals. It clearly applies to people having to carry because of their job. The form would not need to be filled out otherwise.

So you think a person can just walk up to the NYPD and ask for a CCW? there is no form because they DONT ALLOW IT.

Okay. You are saying that individuals in NYC cannot have a CCW unless it is a requirement of their employer, correct?

 

[martybegan]

They don't issue a CCW UNLESS you have a business and compelling reason. Again, you are not arguing the point, but piddling on part of the concept.

My question is, do you agree that NYPD should be able to stop me from getting a CCW "just because"?

You aren't making any sense. First you say you have to BEG to get for a CCW and then you say they are only issued to people that are required to have them for their job. It can't be both.

I don't think the NYPD should be able to stop you from getting a CCW "just because" but I am not seeing where they have that power.

There is no category for a CCW that does not include a "for cause" reason, or a business. and even then you have to describe why you want the CCW.

New York is a "may issue" state, not a shall issue state.

Please show me how page three of that application applies to individuals. It clearly applies to people having to carry because of their job. The form would not need to be filled out otherwise.

So you think a person can just walk up to the NYPD and ask for a CCW? there is no form because they DONT ALLOW IT.

Okay. You are saying that individuals in NYC cannot have a CCW unless it is a requirement of their employer, correct?

or they are a retired police officer, or they know someone in the Department (the celebrity exception) or they can define a set risk.

If i go to NYPD and apply for a CCW, and give the reason "because it is my constitutional right under the 2nd amendment) they will deny it in a heartbeat.

 

[Ravi]

You aren't making any sense. First you say you have to BEG to get for a CCW and then you say they are only issued to people that are required to have them for their job. It can't be both.

I don't think the NYPD should be able to stop you from getting a CCW "just because" but I am not seeing where they have that power.

There is no category for a CCW that does not include a "for cause" reason, or a business. and even then you have to describe why you want the CCW.

New York is a "may issue" state, not a shall issue state.

Please show me how page three of that application applies to individuals. It clearly applies to people having to carry because of their job. The form would not need to be filled out otherwise.

So you think a person can just walk up to the NYPD and ask for a CCW? there is no form because they DONT ALLOW IT.

Okay. You are saying that individuals in NYC cannot have a CCW unless it is a requirement of their employer, correct?

or they are a retired police officer, or they know someone in the Department (the celebrity exception) or they can define a set risk.

If i go to NYPD and apply for a CCW, and give the reason "because it is my constitutional right under the 2nd amendment) they will deny it in a heartbeat.

Then why did you pony up $500?

 

[martybegan]

There is no category for a CCW that does not include a "for cause" reason, or a business. and even then you have to describe why you want the CCW.

New York is a "may issue" state, not a shall issue state.

Please show me how page three of that application applies to individuals. It clearly applies to people having to carry because of their job. The form would not need to be filled out otherwise.

So you think a person can just walk up to the NYPD and ask for a CCW? there is no form because they DONT ALLOW IT.

Okay. You are saying that individuals in NYC cannot have a CCW unless it is a requirement of their employer, correct?

or they are a retired police officer, or they know someone in the Department (the celebrity exception) or they can define a set risk.

If i go to NYPD and apply for a CCW, and give the reason "because it is my constitutional right under the 2nd amendment) they will deny it in a heartbeat.

Then why did you pony up $500?

I have not tried to get a CCW, much like I have not had the need for my 4th amendment rights. I should be able to get one, however, if I so choose, and do it without having to jump through hoops to do it.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Please show me how page three of that application applies to individuals. It clearly applies to people having to carry because of their job. The form would not need to be filled out otherwise.

So you think a person can just walk up to the NYPD and ask for a CCW? there is no form because they DONT ALLOW IT.

Okay. You are saying that individuals in NYC cannot have a CCW unless it is a requirement of their employer, correct?

or they are a retired police officer, or they know someone in the Department (the celebrity exception) or they can define a set risk.

If i go to NYPD and apply for a CCW, and give the reason "because it is my constitutional right under the 2nd amendment) they will deny it in a heartbeat.

Then why did you pony up $500?

I have not tried to get a CCW, much like I have not had the need for my 4th amendment rights. I should be able to get one, however, if I so choose, and do it without having to jump through hoops to do it.

And pay $500 for the permit.

 

[Ravi]

Please show me how page three of that application applies to individuals. It clearly applies to people having to carry because of their job. The form would not need to be filled out otherwise.

So you think a person can just walk up to the NYPD and ask for a CCW? there is no form because they DONT ALLOW IT.

Okay. You are saying that individuals in NYC cannot have a CCW unless it is a requirement of their employer, correct?

or they are a retired police officer, or they know someone in the Department (the celebrity exception) or they can define a set risk.

If i go to NYPD and apply for a CCW, and give the reason "because it is my constitutional right under the 2nd amendment) they will deny it in a heartbeat.

Then why did you pony up $500?

I have not tried to get a CCW, much like I have not had the need for my 4th amendment rights. I should be able to get one, however, if I so choose, and do it without having to jump through hoops to do it.

Okay, I did some googling and it appears that you are correct. People like Donald Trump can get their CCW in NYC but people like you cannot without a compelling reason.

I don't agree with that, personally.

Have you tried waltzing in in a mini-skirt and said you were afraid of rapists?

 

[martybegan]

So you think a person can just walk up to the NYPD and ask for a CCW? there is no form because they DONT ALLOW IT.

Okay. You are saying that individuals in NYC cannot have a CCW unless it is a requirement of their employer, correct?

or they are a retired police officer, or they know someone in the Department (the celebrity exception) or they can define a set risk.

If i go to NYPD and apply for a CCW, and give the reason "because it is my constitutional right under the 2nd amendment) they will deny it in a heartbeat.

Then why did you pony up $500?

I have not tried to get a CCW, much like I have not had the need for my 4th amendment rights. I should be able to get one, however, if I so choose, and do it without having to jump through hoops to do it.

And pay $500 for the permit.

$500 is ridiculous for a gun permit, and that is only for in house possession.