Texas turns to Natural Gas after Wind Energy fails.

[Old Rocks]

My, what a lying little fuck you are, Elektra.

Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 3,120 Watts 3,120/2,827 Included up to 424 kWh 12 1 SMA Sunny Boy 3000TL-US-22 1890400
$5,353
Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 5,200 Watts 5,200/4,712 Included up to 707 kWh 20 1 SMA Sunny Boy 5000TL-US-22 1890405
$8,443
Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 6,500 Watts - Pallet Special
6,500/5,890 Included up to 884 kWh 25 1 SMA Sunny Boy 6000TL-US-22 1890406
$9,685
Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 6,760 Watts 6,760/6,126 Included up to 919 kWh 26 1 SMA Sunny Boy 7000TL-US-22 1890409
$10,738
Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 10,140 Watts
10,140/9,188 Included up to 1,378 kWh 39 1 SMA Sunny Boy 9000TL-US-12 1891416
$13,509
Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 13,520 Watts
13,520/12,251 Included up to 1,838 kWh 52 2 SMA Sunny Boy 7000TL-US-22 1890429
$19,488
Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 16,900 Watts
16,900/15,314 Included up to 2,297 kWh 65 1 SMA SB7000TL-US-12
1 SMA SB9000TL-US-12 1890434
$23,260
Solar Sky Astronergy Grid-tie Solar System 20,280 watts 20,280/18,377 Included up to 2,757 kWh 78 2 SMA Sunny Boy 9000TL-US-12 1890439
$26,911
1. STC is Standard Test conditions or factory ratings. PTC is PV-USA Test Ratings which are closer to real world conditions. Your unique conditions will affect your system output.Read more...
2. What is a kilowatt hour (kWh) and how to find it on your power bill.
3. Please be aware that these prices may change daily. Call for current pricing: 1 (800) 472-1142.

[email protected] .

 

[eagle1462010]

http://www.alabamapower.com/residential/pricing-rates/pdf/sp-pae.pdf

6. All metering equipment necessary to meter two-way electric energy flow in excess of metering necessary for a similar consumer who does not operate electric generating equipment in parallel with the Company's electric system shall be provided, installed, and maintained by the Company at the expense of the Customer. This expense is included in the base charge portion of the rate.

13. (a). For Customers with an electric generating facility that has a nameplate capacity of 25 kW or less (regardless of whether such Customer is a residential, commercial, or industrial Customer), prior to the start of any interconnection work, the Company may recommend that the Customer obtain liability insurance protecting the Customer from liability resulting from any injuries or damages caused by the Customer’s installation or operation of such electric generating facilities and equipment or by the Customer’s failure to maintain such electric generating facilities and equipment in satisfactory and safe operating condition.

There are rules for installing to the grid.........permits..........new metering..........and insurance via the utility company.

As usual, when I get into something I'm researching I dig............couple of points for comment on......

1. Standard smart meters are NOT 2 WAY.........Old meters run backwards the new smart meters do not...........they only measure POWER............and I've been reading that some of these meters actually have been charging customers for sending power back to the grid....................Not only that many states are using the smart meters to RAISE RATES FOR PEAK OPERATING TIMES OF DAY............

Especially in Western States........In these states you can reduce your overall bill by not running as much electricity during peak hours..............

2. You can and probably will be charged for the new meter that is installed to measure your kwh's going back to the grid.

3. A smart meter detects any changes and they will know if you tie into the grid with power immediately.

4. They can shut down your power via computer, and will do so if you don't go through the proper channels.

5. Average costs associated to the permitting and new meters are a little over $2,000 to the cost of the system grid tie...............

 

[eagle1462010]

More notes....................

My bill is 8.4 cents per kwh for first 1000 kwh's
My bill is 8.6 cents per kwh for over 1000 kwh's of usage.

The ONLY THING that really matters in SOLAR POWER OUTPUT is the KWH's it can produce when calculating Load for your home.....................

And as I stated the capacity for said usage for a 10k system is inadequate for all of your power needs for the cost.

A 24k Solar system will produce under IDEAL conditions around 2200 kwh's per month. It requires 60 Solar Panels that are roughly 65 inches by 40 inches to produce this approx 2200 kwh's based on 5 sun hours a day.

My average usage per month are 3,000 kwh's per month on average for the year.

That system cost from site provided is approximately $35,000 without installation..........and would have further wire and conduit cost to tie in the system to the grid.............With local permits and having to pay for the metering it goes up by roughly $3500 making the install cost approximately $38,500 to install and tie.

Any system installed over 25,000 Watts in Alabama require you to have a 1 MILLION DOLLAR INSURANCE POLICY on your system.

Now, this would produce roughly 2/3rd's of the average power used at my home..............Meaning I'll still have a 1/3rd power bill even after installing a nearly $40,000 system.

Now, the surface area......................60 panels......................will take roughly 60 foot by 24 foot of space to handle the panels. aka roughly 1440 square foot area.

As I stated I priced some systems a year or so to try and figure out the cost of a system, and after I get the cob webs out of my head I start to figure out the real cost versus value of the system...............

It has a VERY HIGH INITIAL COST to get the kind of power you need to stop paying the utility companies....................It has RISK and LIABILITY from these utility companies if you TIE TO GRID.............aka you can get sued by these guys if they claim you damaged the system with your power...........................

So if you can off grid some of your applications you are better off in the long run.................

Solar Power has risks and rewards..................BUT PLEASE STOP SAYING HOW CHEAP IT IS.................

I've considered putting some in, and I am thinking about it now.................as I got some high electric bills this winter and I'm kinda pissed about it.....................
But I have to look at the COST versus VALUE..............the good and the bad............

I welcome input or challenges to my data...................I'm very experienced in Electrical and calcs.............I do it for a living........................But the Solar is a new twist..................

So tell me how to do this cheaper, and tell me about the kwh's from your own experiences...............No bs on it.

 

[eagle1462010]

fyi............http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f5695.pdf

This is the federal form needed to get the tax credit if you were to decide to put in a solar panel system grid.................

Up until 2016 you get 30% tax credits for the full install of the system. aka at the end of the year when you file taxes you use this form to get the credits and payments for installing the system.

At $38,500 for a 60 panel 24k system in my example............

$11,550 Tax Credit at the end of the year, which brings the cost down to $26,950.

Alabama gives a $1,000 tax credit..........bringing the cost down to $25,950 for the install if you do it yourself.....................

How do you get the install approved is the next question................Does it have to be installed by a company for the credit?

 

[longknife]

Natural gas is the solution to energy in the USA.

I will repeat - for 5 years, I drove a taxi here in Vegas powered by natural gas. It performed as well as a gasoline powered vehicle and the engine lasted twice as long - an average 450,000 miles before replacement - and the old was rebuilt.

Far less emissions too.

I've also noticed far more city buses converted to natural gas and it's a joy driving behind them without the black, noxious cloud of fumes coming from diesel engines.

 

[eagle1462010]

Natural gas is the solution to energy in the USA.

I will repeat - for 5 years, I drove a taxi here in Vegas powered by natural gas. It performed as well as a gasoline powered vehicle and the engine lasted twice as long - an average 450,000 miles before replacement - and the old was rebuilt.

Far less emissions too.

I've also noticed far more city buses converted to natural gas and it's a joy driving behind them without the black, noxious cloud of fumes coming from diesel engines.

We are the Saudi Arabia of Natural Gas here in the United States. So Natural Gas is the only viable alternative to Coal and or Gasoline from Oil. With Fracking we will produce as much oil as Saudi Arabia in as little as 5 years.

In regards to Coal burning plants the power companies have retrofitted all the EPA required devises at a great expense only to be basically wiped out by the New EPA regulations. These regulations have dropped production from 55% to 45% in all electricity in the nation in a few years. We have the best emitting coal burners in the world already, and a 200 year supply of the coal. Which is a waste of a energy supply.

The cost of building the new plants will FORCE utility bills up by at least 50% to customers by replacing them. This will effect the poor more than anyone else, especially the elderly living on a fixed income.

 

[eagle1462010]

My power bill has gone up steadily as the utility builds new plants and passes the buck on to the people. One being the Kemper Plant in Mississippi, which is the first of it's kind. It is a gasification plant for COAL. The cost overruns for this plant already exceed 3 BILLION dollars as they try to make the experimental process work.

Even though it is with Mississippi Power, they are part of Gulf Power and they are passing the new costs on across the region.

Since my bills have gone up, I've considered alternatives which is why I'm almost ready to slap solar panels up, but the UP FRONT COST is VERY HIGH irregardless of what the other poster is saying. If I start with the lower cost version being discussed it will only power 1/3rd of my bill. That cost will actually make my over all power bill go up rather than down for at least 10 years when you calculate the costs versus benefits over time.

Either way the green machine is determined to KILL COAL..............so we can expect higher and higher rates............basically FORCING US ON TO THEIR BAND WAGON due to higher costs.

Which is part of their plan anyway. Make Solar more affordable by driving up the costs of the other power sources.

 

[elektra]

My, what a lying little fuck you are, Elektra.

Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 3,120 Watts 3,120/2,827 Included up to 424 kWh 12 1 SMA Sunny Boy 3000TL-US-22 1890400
$5,353
Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 5,200 Watts 5,200/4,712 Included up to 707 kWh 20 1 SMA Sunny Boy 5000TL-US-22 1890405
$8,443
Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 6,500 Watts - Pallet Special
6,500/5,890 Included up to 884 kWh 25 1 SMA Sunny Boy 6000TL-US-22 1890406
$9,685
Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 6,760 Watts 6,760/6,126 Included up to 919 kWh 26 1 SMA Sunny Boy 7000TL-US-22 1890409
$10,738
Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 10,140 Watts
10,140/9,188 Included up to 1,378 kWh 39 1 SMA Sunny Boy 9000TL-US-12 1891416
$13,509
Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 13,520 Watts
13,520/12,251 Included up to 1,838 kWh 52 2 SMA Sunny Boy 7000TL-US-22 1890429
$19,488
Solar Sky Astronergy Gridtie System 16,900 Watts
16,900/15,314 Included up to 2,297 kWh 65 1 SMA SB7000TL-US-12
1 SMA SB9000TL-US-12 1890434
$23,260
Solar Sky Astronergy Grid-tie Solar System 20,280 watts 20,280/18,377 Included up to 2,757 kWh 78 2 SMA Sunny Boy 9000TL-US-12 1890439
$26,911
1. STC is Standard Test conditions or factory ratings. PTC is PV-USA Test Ratings which are closer to real world conditions. Your unique conditions will affect your system output.Read more...
2. What is a kilowatt hour (kWh) and how to find it on your power bill.
3. Please be aware that these prices may change daily. Call for current pricing: 1 (800) 472-1142.

[email protected] .

Show us the picks from your system, on your home Old Crock, with a copy of the Bill, otherwise your Google search means nothing.

 

[bripat9643]

More notes....................

My bill is 8.4 cents per kwh for first 1000 kwh's
My bill is 8.6 cents per kwh for over 1000 kwh's of usage.

The ONLY THING that really matters in SOLAR POWER OUTPUT is the KWH's it can produce when calculating Load for your home.....................

And as I stated the capacity for said usage for a 10k system is inadequate for all of your power needs for the cost.

A 24k Solar system will produce under IDEAL conditions around 2200 kwh's per month. It requires 60 Solar Panels that are roughly 65 inches by 40 inches to produce this approx 2200 kwh's based on 5 sun hours a day.

My average usage per month are 3,000 kwh's per month on average for the year.

That system cost from site provided is approximately $35,000 without installation..........and would have further wire and conduit cost to tie in the system to the grid.............With local permits and having to pay for the metering it goes up by roughly $3500 making the install cost approximately $38,500 to install and tie.

Any system installed over 25,000 Watts in Alabama require you to have a 1 MILLION DOLLAR INSURANCE POLICY on your system.

Now, this would produce roughly 2/3rd's of the average power used at my home..............Meaning I'll still have a 1/3rd power bill even after installing a nearly $40,000 system.

Now, the surface area......................60 panels......................will take roughly 60 foot by 24 foot of space to handle the panels. aka roughly 1440 square foot area.

As I stated I priced some systems a year or so to try and figure out the cost of a system, and after I get the cob webs out of my head I start to figure out the real cost versus value of the system...............

It has a VERY HIGH INITIAL COST to get the kind of power you need to stop paying the utility companies....................It has RISK and LIABILITY from these utility companies if you TIE TO GRID.............aka you can get sued by these guys if they claim you damaged the system with your power...........................

So if you can off grid some of your applications you are better off in the long run.................

Solar Power has risks and rewards..................BUT PLEASE STOP SAYING HOW CHEAP IT IS.................

I've considered putting some in, and I am thinking about it now.................as I got some high electric bills this winter and I'm kinda pissed about it.....................
But I have to look at the COST versus VALUE..............the good and the bad............

I welcome input or challenges to my data...................I'm very experienced in Electrical and calcs.............I do it for a living........................But the Solar is a new twist..................

So tell me how to do this cheaper, and tell me about the kwh's from your own experiences...............No bs on it.

A better investment would be to spend some money reducing the energy consumption of your house. Buy Led bulbs for all the fixtures in your house. Install triple pain windows and add additional insulation. Make sure your house is weather tight. Solar panels are good for heating hot water, but not for much else.

 

[eagle1462010]

More notes....................

My bill is 8.4 cents per kwh for first 1000 kwh's
My bill is 8.6 cents per kwh for over 1000 kwh's of usage.

The ONLY THING that really matters in SOLAR POWER OUTPUT is the KWH's it can produce when calculating Load for your home.....................

And as I stated the capacity for said usage for a 10k system is inadequate for all of your power needs for the cost.

A 24k Solar system will produce under IDEAL conditions around 2200 kwh's per month. It requires 60 Solar Panels that are roughly 65 inches by 40 inches to produce this approx 2200 kwh's based on 5 sun hours a day.

My average usage per month are 3,000 kwh's per month on average for the year.

That system cost from site provided is approximately $35,000 without installation..........and would have further wire and conduit cost to tie in the system to the grid.............With local permits and having to pay for the metering it goes up by roughly $3500 making the install cost approximately $38,500 to install and tie.

Any system installed over 25,000 Watts in Alabama require you to have a 1 MILLION DOLLAR INSURANCE POLICY on your system.

Now, this would produce roughly 2/3rd's of the average power used at my home..............Meaning I'll still have a 1/3rd power bill even after installing a nearly $40,000 system.

Now, the surface area......................60 panels......................will take roughly 60 foot by 24 foot of space to handle the panels. aka roughly 1440 square foot area.

As I stated I priced some systems a year or so to try and figure out the cost of a system, and after I get the cob webs out of my head I start to figure out the real cost versus value of the system...............

It has a VERY HIGH INITIAL COST to get the kind of power you need to stop paying the utility companies....................It has RISK and LIABILITY from these utility companies if you TIE TO GRID.............aka you can get sued by these guys if they claim you damaged the system with your power...........................

So if you can off grid some of your applications you are better off in the long run.................

Solar Power has risks and rewards..................BUT PLEASE STOP SAYING HOW CHEAP IT IS.................

I've considered putting some in, and I am thinking about it now.................as I got some high electric bills this winter and I'm kinda pissed about it.....................
But I have to look at the COST versus VALUE..............the good and the bad............

I welcome input or challenges to my data...................I'm very experienced in Electrical and calcs.............I do it for a living........................But the Solar is a new twist..................

So tell me how to do this cheaper, and tell me about the kwh's from your own experiences...............No bs on it.

A better investment would be to spend some money reducing the energy consumption of your house. Buy Led bulbs for all the fixtures in your house. Install triple pain windows and add additional insulation. Make sure your house is weather tight. Solar panels are good for heating hot water, but not for much else.

I'm actually ordering some LED's and CFL's right now to see how I like them...........Did a cost comparison on the savings for their use and came up with like $75 to $100 a year in savings for the year if they work as designed..........aka spending more than the savings up front already.

I'm also going to seal up any air leaks soon and add insulation to see if it lowers the bill. Even considering a Hot Water Blanket to stop those losses as well...........

I'm still looking to grid tie............even though the bang for the buck is low.

Watching these video's.........on calculations and configuration of grid systems. He's pretty good.

 

[eagle1462010]

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/syste...icroinverter-grid-tie-solar-panel-system.html

After watching the videos, I became interested in the mircroinverters...........aka one inverter per panel...........As otherwise you must series the wiring for 13 panels in the other package............If you get a single cell to go bad in any of the 13 panels the whole series circuit opens and you lose 13 panels while you repair them. Given that they have about 60 cells each, you have 780 cells in series...........The microinverters prevent you from losing all of that power when 1 of 780 cells goes out.

This package is expensive..........It doesn't include the railing system, or flashing...........doesn't include the extra charges via the power company, and the wire and conduit and disconnects to the grid............So it would take a couple of decades to recoup the expense of it on the cost now.

Noting that the EPA is causing our bills to rise......15% last year......and another 7% possible due to the dang Kemper Power Plant that they can't get to work..............gasification of coal.

 

[eagle1462010]

Video on micro inverters............versus string inverters............

You can add to the grid at any time and any numbers.........So you can just start with a small number of panels and then add to it.............1 at a time............If you are stringing series loads you have to add possibly 10 or more at a time.............to get the voltage input needed for the converter.............In an earlier post I noted minimum inputs at 300 volts DC...........

This video shows how you can start small and slowly work the total system package up..

 

[eagle1462010]

Ok.......seems interest in this thread is dying, but I will continue to post information I am finding............

Here's the Alabama costs per Kilowatt produced as an EXTRA FEE for tying to the grid.

http://www.alabamapower.com/business/pricing-rates/pdf/rgb.pdf

1. The Capacity Reservation Charge of $5.00/kW (secondary service) or $4.46/kW (primary service) shall be added to the applicable rate schedule. The Capacity Reservation Charge shall be applied to the nameplate capacity of the Customer’s installed on-site, non-emergency electric generating capacity. The Customer may request the Company to calculate its actual capacity requirement to which the Capacity Reservation Charge shall be applied if the Customer believes the nameplate capacity of its installed on-site, non-emergency electric generating capacity exceeds its actual capacity needs. The monthly bill minimum shall be adjusted to include the Capacity Reservation Charge plus the Minimum Bill provisions of the applicable rate schedule. All other terms and conditions of the applicable rates shall continue to apply.

2. In lieu of the Capacity Reservation Charge in 1. above, qualifying customers may take service under Rate RTA with the following modification.

a. During the months of June through September, the energy charge shall be 70¢/kWh during the weekday hours of 3:00 pm – 5:00 pm, excluding holidays as outlined in Rate RTA. All other terms and conditions of Rate RTA shall continue to apply.

Alabama Power.........and my brother works for these guys.

So, I put in a 10KW system.......that doesn't provide enough power for my home.......to pay $50 a month just for tying to the grid..................

Let there be light How solar could radically disrupt electric utilities business models opinion AL.com

mong those regulations is "net metering," which is required in 43 states, but not Alabama. Net metering allows your power meter to run backwards when you generate more electricity than you use, and at the end of the month, you pay the power company for the difference, or if you have generated more, they pay you.

Again, we don't have that here in Alabama. Instead, solar users sell their excess power to utilities at wholesale prices but buy it back with a retail mark-up.

However, there has been one major regulatory change in anticipation of a solar surge. Last year, the Alabama Public Service Commission approved a fee for new solar hookups at a rate of $5 per kilowatt per month. What that means for the typical home solar user is a fee of $15 or $20 per month.

Alabama power officials have told me that they aren't afraid of solar, and when the day comes that their customers demand it, the company will be there to sell it to them. When they asked for the regulatory change, known as a capacity reservation charge, they followed the legal process for soliciting that adjustment.

A fee like that might be reasonable, but when it passed in 2013 there was no public input and no discussion, and that's the thing that Alabamians should be unnerved about.

 

[eagle1462010]

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/solar/pdfs/48969.pdf

Information on solar power systems, rebates, and listings for individual States etc............

In Alabama, there is no legislative standard for NET METERING...........Which means you must APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE UTILITY.............and get permission to tie from that same utility............

Then you must pay for a Net Meter and installation..............

Then you must pay a monthly charge for rated capacity..........at $5 per KW produced......

Then you send back to the grid at a 4 cent pay back, to be charged at regular rates at night.

My purpose is to save money on my bill...................these rules in Alabama have got me.....................................



the savings would be cut in half as they bill me more................

Nice Fing set up isn't it...............Time to speak to my Senator.........again.............

 

[eagle1462010]

For Alabama Power.............



Bitches.........I'll put a damned system and tell you to get your shit off my property and put in a 10 KW generator for back up...............

Bitches.

 

[Old Rocks]

Well Eagle, in those states that cave to the utilities and try to prevent grid parallel, I think that as the prices of home batteries come down, see Tesla, you will see many people doing just that. Unfortunetly, the utility execs have their heads up their asses, and instead of welcoming a new source of generation, and trying to make it work for all concerned, they are doing their best to prevent it. And will destroy their business as a result.

 

[longknife]

Okay, here's a question for all - can anything be done about the monopolies public utilities currently have? Is there a way to allow other companies to step in and offer the same services?

I truly wonder if it's possible. An example is trash collecting. Here in the Vegas Valley, there is only one company that picks up trash from everywhere! But, the service that company provides varies from which government it serves.

Explanation:

I lived in the city/county are and the trucks that came by were old and manned by a driver and assistant to manually collect from a variety of trash containers.

I now live in North Las Vegas where the same company has new vehicles and each house as two standard trash containers - one specifically for recyclables. It has a single driver and all is done by machine.

Why just one company? Why not two? Or more?

Just curious.

 

[eagle1462010]

Okay, here's a question for all - can anything be done about the monopolies public utilities currently have? Is there a way to allow other companies to step in and offer the same services?

I truly wonder if it's possible. An example is trash collecting. Here in the Vegas Valley, there is only one company that picks up trash from everywhere! But, the service that company provides varies from which government it serves.

Explanation:

I lived in the city/county are and the trucks that came by were old and manned by a driver and assistant to manually collect from a variety of trash containers.

I now live in North Las Vegas where the same company has new vehicles and each house as two standard trash containers - one specifically for recyclables. It has a single driver and all is done by machine.

Why just one company? Why not two? Or more?

Just curious.

The Utility companies are monopolized but since they have a monopoly they are supposed to be Regulated by the Federal, State and Local Gov'ts........which is why they must apply for rate increases...........and to incorporate the laws I've just described..............These boards pretty much give the utility companies what they want................and let them get away with it.......................

Only by pushing it through your own Government trying to force changes through the legislature to end these problems can you put an end to it..................but when the Gov't is in bed with them......you have an even greater challenge..............

I live in a rural area........In the country............I have a choice of 3 different garbage services...........a pay for service.............In the city areas...............they have a monopoly as they are city workers................and the only way is to again approach the city council...........and demand improvements........most of these have open public meetings where you can ask them questions and bring it up while they are being filmed by local news and put them on the spot..............

Don't know if that helped you out, but it's what we have.

 

[eagle1462010]

Battery Desulfators - Fact or Fiction - Import Tuner Magazine

Battery Desulfators - Fact or Fiction

The Claim: Battery Desulfators Can Bring Dead Batteries To Life.

When it comes to our cars’ electrical systems, most of us know just what we need to get by. This is especially true of battery maintenance: Keep your terminals clean, jumpstart it if you park with your lights on, let the alternator take care of the rest, and you’ll be good to go for a long while. Until the battery eventually refuses to hold a charge and you have to fork over hard-earned loot for a replacement, right? Not necessarily, say the makers of battery desulfators.

 

[eagle1462010]

Perhaps it's time to buy one of those..............and buy dead batteries..................BATTERY BANK MAYBE,,,,,,,,,,'

Question.............Forklift batteries.............has anyone tried them yet........even though most have a 5 hour rating only instead of 20 hour.........

I'm seeing them much cheaper than the high dollar ones.................with massive ampere hour capacities...........for a fraction of the cost of building a new bank.......

Anybody tried these............Looking at old chargers for them as well............some of these old rack chargers look like some of the ones I repaired in the Navy............floating ideas...............I used to run the Safety shop on the USS Wasp back in the day.............which included running the Battery Shop and forklift batteries for our forklifts............

Need a forklift to move them though our chainfall. As they weigh a few thousand pounds.......LOL

Anyway............anyone tried that yet...............