Test Prep

[OldLady]

In Adult Ed we use the CASAS. Our sudents' improvement is measured by their scores after so many hours of instruction; it's the state's performance measure. So it's really important that students do well in it, even if they come in for a GED. It requires basic math skills without a calculator, before the test will move you to higher math skills. So I found myself teaching a lot of basic skills, like fractions and decimals. Long division is the worst to teach. And of course, you've got to know your multiplication facts first. Students hate all of it, complain about doing baby math, but they can't do it, so .....

 

[ClaireH]

I didn't study/prep for my SAT's; as a matter of fact, I had a wicked tequila hangover. My essay wasn't up to snuff for me, but my scores were fine--actually my language scores were in the 99th percentile. And per usual, my math score was much lower.

A standardized test is supposed to be about what you actually know. Prepping and studying for one seems almost to be cheating. It's not as if kids these days haven't taken a shitload of these tests. They're already familiar with the format.

Our local state college doesn't even use them anymore for admissions, and a lot of colleges don't, they say. ,

When I got around to going to college, I was in school with the academic cream of the crop for SUNY --top 3% of their class, solid A students, and I gotta tell ya folks, they had to be babied and spoonfed and they couldn't write for shit, either.

Test scores and grades aren't everything.

To back that observation OL about it being like cheating, most school systems have known for many years that nationalized test questions asked one year will be the same questions asked again...including the math section. Now that's cheating in my book as well. This practice of looking at previous years questions, running over the problems until all students know the answer, even if they didn't understand the steps, became the norm in many school systems within my state. I'm assuming that my state isn't that special to be a stand-alone state in this matter.

 

[JoeMoma]

In Adult Ed we use the CASAS. Our sudents' improvement is measured by their scores after so many hours of instruction; it's the state's performance measure. So it's really important that students do well in it, even if they come in for a GED. It requires basic math skills without a calculator, before the test will move you to higher math skills. So I found myself teaching a lot of basic skills, like fractions and decimals. Long division is the worst to teach. And of course, you've got to know your multiplication facts first. Students hate all of it, complain about doing baby math, but they can't do it, so .....

Back in the stone ages when I was in high school, there was an advanced/college prep track for math and a general math track. The general math track continued to practice those "baby math" skills and do every day life math problems. The advanced math track had the algebra, geometry, trig, and calculus. Only 2 units of general math was required for a high school diploma.

The only place that most people ever need to solve a quadratic equation is in a math class.

 

[OldLady]

In Adult Ed we use the CASAS. Our sudents' improvement is measured by their scores after so many hours of instruction; it's the state's performance measure. So it's really important that students do well in it, even if they come in for a GED. It requires basic math skills without a calculator, before the test will move you to higher math skills. So I found myself teaching a lot of basic skills, like fractions and decimals. Long division is the worst to teach. And of course, you've got to know your multiplication facts first. Students hate all of it, complain about doing baby math, but they can't do it, so .....

Back in the stone ages when I was in high school, there was an advanced/college prep track for math and a general math track. The general math track continued to practice those "baby math" skills and do every day life math problems. The advanced math track had the algebra, geometry, trig, and calculus. Only 2 units of general math was required for a high school diploma.

The only place that most people ever need to solve a quadratic equation is in a math class.

I have managed to survive 66 years without being able to do Algebra. The only time I had to worry about it was in school. General math is so much more useful. I've had a depressingly large number of students who didn't know how to find out what their car's gas mileage was. Then I found out most newer cars tell you....(even mine does--I just didn't know it).

They can't estimate in their head what an item will cost at the register if it's 25% off. I ask, so how do you know if you've got enough money? They guess.

 

[Winco]

These tests have been watered down over the years.

Are you actually saying that the SAT taken in 1980 is different(watered down in your words) that the SAT test given in 2010 or 2020?

 

[DGS49]

I don't think things change much over time.

An organization like ETS is mature and competent enough to make their tests reliable and repeatable, and surely over the many decades since the accusation first reared its ugly head, any "cultural bias" has long since been excised. The main critics of such tests are people who are resentful because they personally did worse than they thought they would. Teachers, mainly.

A test prep course has very little value, mainly explaining to the little darlings when and whether it is best to GUESS or just leave the answer blank (undone). Beyond that, taking a couple of the provided example tests is preparation enough.

The hope that a mediocre student will test out as anything better than that is a vain hope indeed. Basically everyone who pays attention to such things agrees that a "high" test score indicates the potential to do well, but no guarantee. The examples trotted out of people who had "poor" SAT's (etc) and did well in college are almost invariably people who majored in "soft" subjects where high intelligence is not required. Someone with a sub-500 Math SAT will not ever graduate with honors as an EE or comparable.

But what do I know?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It's that time of year when many students are taking or preparing for various standardized tests. Most of the AP students I have been working with this year have already taken their tests. A number of students are still preparing to take (or retake) the SAT or ACT (or GRE, LSAT, GMAT, etc.). I read so many articles in educational journals about how "unfair" in one way or another standardized tests are, but when I see students actually working on their test prep, the truth of it is all too obvious. Students who have the time and opportunity to study, prep, and take practice test invariably do better in the end. The reasons why some students may or may not have the time and opportunity to do so is another (and very important) discussion.

These tests have been watered down over the years. A big part of these schools, especially community colleges, have to teach these kids remedial math, English and reading.

That's an odd thing for you to say, especially since the colleges use those test scores for determining if the kids need remedial instruction.

That just goes to prove you have no clue as to what you are talking about.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I didn't study/prep for my SAT's; as a matter of fact, I had a wicked tequila hangover. My essay wasn't up to snuff for me, but my scores were fine--actually my language scores were in the 99th percentile. And per usual, my math score was much lower.

A standardized test is supposed to be about what you actually know. Prepping and studying for one seems almost to be cheating. It's not as if kids these days haven't taken a shitload of these tests. They're already familiar with the format.

Our local state college doesn't even use them anymore for admissions, and a lot of colleges don't, they say. ,

When I got around to going to college, I was in school with the academic cream of the crop for SUNY --top 3% of their class, solid A students, and I gotta tell ya folks, they had to be babied and spoonfed and they couldn't write for shit, either.

Test scores and grades aren't everything.

To back that observation OL about it being like cheating, most school systems have known for many years that nationalized test questions asked one year will be the same questions asked again...including the math section. Now that's cheating in my book as well. This practice of looking at previous years questions, running over the problems until all students know the answer, even if they didn't understand the steps, became the norm in many school systems within my state. I'm assuming that my state isn't that special to be a stand-alone state in this matter.

Not true.

 

[Hang on Sloopy]

These tests have been watered down over the years.

Are you actually saying that the SAT taken in 1980 is different(watered down in your words) that the SAT test given in 2010 or 2020?

I've noticed of anyone here, your knowledge of educational matters is so abysmal. You screamed when I said those corrupt school unions wrote CDC policy. Remember when I showed you and you disappeared like your dick does?

Eliminating a 5th answer to questions is where I start. That sucks like you suck .So suck off and adios

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/05/11/why-your-new-sat-score-is-not-as-strong-as-you-think-it-is/

 

[Hang on Sloopy]

It's that time of year when many students are taking or preparing for various standardized tests. Most of the AP students I have been working with this year have already taken their tests. A number of students are still preparing to take (or retake) the SAT or ACT (or GRE, LSAT, GMAT, etc.). I read so many articles in educational journals about how "unfair" in one way or another standardized tests are, but when I see students actually working on their test prep, the truth of it is all too obvious. Students who have the time and opportunity to study, prep, and take practice test invariably do better in the end. The reasons why some students may or may not have the time and opportunity to do so is another (and very important) discussion.

These tests have been watered down over the years. A big part of these schools, especially community colleges, have to teach these kids remedial math, English and reading.

That's an odd thing for you to say, especially since the colleges use those test scores for determining if the kids need remedial instruction.

That just goes to prove you have no clue as to what you are talking about.

What I mean was, and what I've been hearing for a long time is so many of these uneducated pukes can't handle Math and English 101, and these colleges are raking it in. Is that hard

No Clue. I never worked or slaved for a boss. is that clueless?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It's that time of year when many students are taking or preparing for various standardized tests. Most of the AP students I have been working with this year have already taken their tests. A number of students are still preparing to take (or retake) the SAT or ACT (or GRE, LSAT, GMAT, etc.). I read so many articles in educational journals about how "unfair" in one way or another standardized tests are, but when I see students actually working on their test prep, the truth of it is all too obvious. Students who have the time and opportunity to study, prep, and take practice test invariably do better in the end. The reasons why some students may or may not have the time and opportunity to do so is another (and very important) discussion.

These tests have been watered down over the years. A big part of these schools, especially community colleges, have to teach these kids remedial math, English and reading.

That's an odd thing for you to say, especially since the colleges use those test scores for determining if the kids need remedial instruction.

That just goes to prove you have no clue as to what you are talking about.

What I mean was, and what I've been hearing for a long time is so many of these uneducated pukes can't handle Math and English 101, and these colleges are raking it in. Is that hard

No Clue. I never worked or slaved for a boss. is that clueless?

Yeah, it is clueless because you are unqualified to comment on education until you get one!

 

[Unkotare]

These tests have been watered down over the years.

Are you actually saying that the SAT taken in 1980 is different that the SAT test given in 2010 or 2020?

It most certainly is.

 

[Grumblenuts]

I didn't study/prep for my SAT's; as a matter of fact, I had a wicked tequila hangover. My essay wasn't up to snuff for me, but my scores were fine--actually my language scores were in the 99th percentile. And per usual, my math score was much lower.

A standardized test is supposed to be about what you actually know. Prepping and studying for one seems almost to be cheating. It's not as if kids these days haven't taken a shitload of these tests. They're already familiar with the format.

Our local state college doesn't even use them anymore for admissions, and a lot of colleges don't, they say. ,

When I got around to going to college, I was in school with the academic cream of the crop for SUNY --top 3% of their class, solid A students, and I gotta tell ya folks, they had to be babied and spoonfed and they couldn't write for shit, either.

Test scores and grades aren't everything.

To back that observation OL about it being like cheating, most school systems have known for many years that nationalized test questions asked one year will be the same questions asked again...including the math section. Now that's cheating in my book as well. This practice of looking at previous years questions, running over the problems until all students know the answer, even if they didn't understand the steps, became the norm in many school systems within my state. I'm assuming that my state isn't that special to be a stand-alone state in this matter.

Not true.

The point that OldLady was driving at is certainly true. Kids should already be getting evaluated plenty so that the teacher can gauge and report their progress relative to what they're supposedly being taught, not what outsiders think they should be focused upon. If we really want the Borg we should just have one national curriculum aimed at maximally pleasuring Wall Street.

No, we should proudly come from all places and walks of life, not just be some predictable, easily sorted numbers. Standardizing just diminishes us all. Screw that. We need to hug and celebrate variety, especially among our children. It's hard enough being a kid these days. Give them and teachers a break already.

 

[DGS49]

The information may be obsolete, but I read many years ago that standardized test preparation courses were worthless. The score improvements are (were) no better than the improvements that occurred when a student took the test for a second time.

There are only a few things that one needs to know before taking a standardized test. One is , whether or not it is in your best interest to guess. Putting it another way, are you penalized for wrong answers, or is the score based on total correct answers, period?

Second, what is the basic approach of the questions? In the Bar Exam, for example, you were given a number of ridiculous answers and two very plausible answers, so you had to quickly identify the bullshit answers, then analyze the two that were left.

Noting that kids who have "resources" do better on standardized tests is YET ANOTHER example of the principle that correlation does not necessarily mean causation. Kids who have resources are descended from parents who are probably educated and successful. OF COURSE, they are going to do better generally than kids who are descended from parents who are low on the economic totem pole. Genes count.

 

[Unkotare]

The information may be obsolete, but I read many years ago that standardized test preparation courses were worthless. The score improvements are (were) no better than the improvements that occurred when a student took the test for a second time.
....

That is very incorrect.

 

[Unkotare]

......

There are only a few things that one needs to know before taking a standardized test. .....

Ill-informed blather ^^^^^^. There is nothing so dangerous as a little information.

 

[Unkotare]

...

that kids who have "resources" do better on standardized tests is .....

...is true

 

[Rogue AI]

Standardized testing has been a colossal waste. Prepare the kids to be able, confident, cooperative adults where they live. Screw the meritocracy. Most of all, screw those still getting rich off of all that ridiculous testing.

Standardized tests are quantifiable. Teaching to the test is simply bad method to an otherwise correct system. Allowing education to be subjective with no quantifiable comparison is unacceptable. That is how bad apples get passed on because nobody wants to deal with them.

 

[DGS49]

Like it or not, it is NECESSARY to determine whether the taught material has been learned. There is no other way than some sort of TEST, and given the millions of subjects (students) who must be evaluated, there is no alternative to STANDARDIZED TESTS.

Teachers complain about basically everything, but their complaints about standardized tests are that they take too much time, they are used inappropriately, some teachers "teach to the tests," and they often disagree with the conclusions of the tests - which students have learned the materials best.

The same things are used as complaints about performance reviews in the Real World. Those complaints do not compel a conclusion that standardized tests be eliminated, but merely that they be modified to be better. I have never heard even a hint that the AFT or the NEA has volunteered their collective mountains of experience and knowledge to improve, for example, the SAT or the ACT. They would rather complain and fight against any proposal that teachers be evaluated on how much their students have learned.

Yet another illustration of why teachers aren't professionals, and their unions are nothing more than labor unions with nicer clothes.

 

[Unkotare]

This clown ^^^^^^ demonstrates with each post just how ignorant he is about education, but that doesn't seem to slow him down.