Nightwish said:
Yeah? So why did they hate us before Saddam came along? And why didn't they even really care about us before we started intruding in Middle Eastern affairs?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall a major conflict with Iraq prior to Saddam. In fact, the Arab "hate America" stance started in Iran when we helped Iraq fight them. Libya didn't like us because we kept blocking their nuclear program (due to "instability" in their government), and they were pretty much it until the Arab nations didn't have the Soviet Union to fight any more. The only conflict the U.S. had prior to any of the above with a Muslim populace (rather than a single leader) was in the Philipines, and, to be fair to the Philipinos, we were trying to conquor them to expand an empire.
Interesting theory. Anything besides conjecture to back it up? At any rate, what does it have to do with why some terrorists hate us?
Yes, but it's in print, so I can't post it here, and if you'd read my post as a whole instead of breaking the thing up and taking it out of context, you'd know. Osama didn't attack the U.S. to make us do something or not do something. He attacked the U.S. because blaming everyone's problems on the U.S. and then calling for attacks on us made him a hero, and heros are very powerful politically.
Sure. Problem is, they've always had an enemy to fight. We've been here for 200 years. They've not been without an enemy to fight for a few thousand. Were they just using all that time to rehearse for us? Did they have some prophecy saying that several hundred years from now, the United States will be born, and we must begin training now by fighting a never-ending war so that we'll be ready when the Great White Devil comes along?
I can only reach a couple of conclusions from this posting. One is that you lack a basic understanding of anything I have said, most of it being that hatred of the U.S. is merely a recent power base. Before that, it was the Soviet Union. Before that, the British. Before that, the Europeans in general. Arab leaders have been using percieved enemies as their power base for thousands of years. We just happen to be the latest target, not the greatest, nor the only.
Well, there was that little emancipation thing.
Study history a little more closely. More has been done for the black man in the past 50 years than in the 200 before that. Emancipation changed little, and the Emancipation Proclamation was a brilliant, but purely political, move that ensure the British and French, who condemned slavery, would not enter the war on the side of the South to protect their main source of cotton.
We're in danger because the founding fathers were businessmen? Sorry, you just lost me!
Ok, maybe that necessitated a change in paragraphs, but still, there's this idea where I make a point (conflict makes people into heros, who are powerful), then, when I think I've made the point, I, now follow me, move on to
another point namely that this phenomenon is why Muslim leaders breed conflict, thus endangering us. Neat concept, huh?
Wow, what a thrilling, fact-filled retort. How long did it take you to research that fact-filled and logical retort? I mean, I must now bow down to your superior intellect and agree with everything you say because this argument has so perfectly countered mine that I must assume that you know everything.
Dude, who the heck have you been talking to? Have you even bothered to talk to anyone who is actually from over there? Or have you gotten all your information from those moronic dimwits like Limbaugh, O'Reilly and Savage, who are constantly shouting at you from their electronic pulpits?
See, this is a typical excuse. First, you assume that Hannity, Limbaugh, O'Reilly, and Savage are all idiots. This is a downright fallacy. Hannity is rude, Limbaugh is flamboyant and arrogant, O'Reilly is pompous and a little wierd, and Savage is downright hostile and occasionally vulgar, but they're all very smart people who are far more qualified to give opinions on national issues than any of us here.
Second, you assume that I cannot possibly have an opinion or any original ideas not given to me by somebody else. Therefore, since I have opinions you so obviously think of as absolutely wrong, then I must get them from people you "know" are idiots simply because democrats usually call them such. I reached these conclusions not because of anything I heard on the radio, but after an extensive look at how the Muslim leaders tend to operate. No Muslim leader has intentionally sacrificed himself for a cause. Most of the violent ones are related to people who hold power, but don't share it. In fact, most of the ones who run terrorist countries live quite lavishly while blaming everything on the U.S. The obvious answer is that they want to exploit the people, then find somewhere else to funnel the blame when the mob gets ornery.
So far, your main defense against any logical argument I make is basically a better articulated version of "You're a stupid head," and then sticking out your tongue. Now, I've seen others that do this (like TheClayTaurus) eventually turn out to be pretty knowledgable people who can and will debate once they get over all of this childishness. Then, there are ones like Psychoblues, who just never grow up. I really hope you're in the first group, but right now, your debate skills are just barely above grade school.
