Ten Questions - Buddha - Buddhism

[Newby]

Hi Marie: regarding suffering from actions caused by other people

The way one of my friends explained how he came to terms with this:

he decided that some of the suffering he went through from abuse from others
was somehow linked to past karma that was repeating from elsewhere.
It could be from this lifetime or beyond this life.
It could be future repercussions that occurred early in time instead of after their causes since karma is not necessarily linear in time. both the cause and the effect can be co-influenced or written in the script of life together.

For him to believe in justice, he had to believe that he is equally implicated
or responsible for his suffering as anyone else in the world has to deal with theirs.

(I asked him if he was okay with equating Jesus with this idea of divine justice that goes beyond our human conditions on justice as we know it, and he said he could see that)

As for karma, I think Sky made a good point that this may be what you are asking.

There is some karma or consequences that are directly our own doing.
Such as imposing on other people, so that they equally impose on you in return.

There is some karma that is not something we can prevent in advance or do something to change directly, though we can change things after the fact.

For example, if a person has such a bad drinking problem, and denial where even their family cannot help them; what if that person gets in the car and kills an innocent person that had nothing to do with their problem?

The problem is "we as society" did not do more to find out this person had a problem and to take preventative steps for safety before someone got killed. So all society suffers, in the form of an innocent person dying. People who see this grieve and feel mixed emotions who had nothing to do with either party. So it motivates change, so in the future more will be done to intervene to prevent the death from happening if at all possible.

Until we learn how to do this perfectly, other people continue to drive drunk and to kill others. So eventually this cycle of abuse and unresolved issues has to be broken to stop the pain and death and suffering of innocent people.

it happens as a consequence or symptom that some problem is not being solved, something is out of balance and not healthy or in harmony. So we all suffer for it.

I hope that helps.
I guess it is similar to the Christian idea of sin being passed down until the cycle is broken in Christ Jesus. We can forgive sins and give these to Christ insetad of carrying retribution in our hearts. When we make this commitment, and answer all injustice with mercy love and correction instead of judgment or punishment, we can break the cycle this way, htorugh Christ Jesus. until then, some sins from the past will continue to manifest until all are given over to this process of restorative justice, correction and healing.

Yes, it helps, thank you. It's interesting to see the differences between you and Sky.

And moreover --Awesome!! You know that Jesus Christ is our Lord! That isn't revealed to us by "man"! It's from Him! Praise Jesus!

I know you are entitled to what you believe. We aren't supposed to judge. Sooo... what I want to say and share with you, please take as an encouragement from me only. An encouragement to look at some verses, and then a link about comparing our God to Buddha, etc. Please know that I'm not looking down my nose at you, or yuck, nor should I! haha. Just want to share. And the Lord knows I have my own things He's dealing with me with, I'm not perfect. Besides, overall its between you and Jesus, and that is what is most important. We know He loves us so much, we are so blessed.

Here is an article from a Christian site that answers alot of questions in the Bible. It talks here a little bit about Buddism, and also contrasts it with Christianity. I'll just quote the last paragraph; there is alot to read.

What is Buddhism and what do Buddhists believe?




Just from that paragraph alone, do you see the differences or how it contrasts? Feel free to take your time, no rush in getting back and thank you again.



Oh and PS - some of the verses that to me anyhow, say stay away from something like Buddhism, as it would kinda like a "spiritual adultery".

Leviticus 20:6
“‘I will set my face against anyone who turns to mediums and spiritists to prostitute themselves by following them, and I will cut them off from their people.

.

If you get all your information about Buddhism from a Christian site you are likely to be getting misinformation or information out of context.

You're also getting Christian bias.

That's ok. I'm just saying that if you want to know more about Buddhism for it's own sake consult a Buddhist site or talk to a Buddhist.

Emily is a Christian.

Could you tell us what was inaccurate about the paragraph that she posted regarding Budhhism?

 

[Newby]

I don't feel that Buddhist and Christian teachings should be mixed. The teachings may sometimes complement each other. I think Christians should stay Christian and Buddhists stay Buddhist.

If you're Christian, be the best Christian you can be. If you're a Buddhist, be the best Buddhist you can be.

Yes, I agree in a sense. Personally, as for me, I mean... if I were to add Buddha to my faith in Jesus Christ, I'd feel like I was sinning. As far as I understand, God doesn't want us to turn to other things like mediums, spiritists, which for me, would be Buddhism. Some of the teachings are totally different like when it comes to sinning against our Holy God, and also the "Nirvana" with Buddhism.

.

If God doesn't want you to turn to Buddhism why are you talking to Buddhists? To try and convert us? Wouldn't any form of communication with Buddhists other than to convert us be a sin to you?

'Nirvana' is not a universal Buddhist concept by the way.

How do you come to that conclusion?

 

[Newby]

Hi Marie: Thank you for your detailed reply and background on where you are coming from. Because we are both thinking so differently about what these things mean, it may take time to sort our what you are saying from what I am saying. I believe your points and mine are both valid, and do not have to contradict once we resolve where that is coming from.

I will reply later in more detail.
Just for now:
1. I agree about avoiding spiritism and false manipulation of spiritual forces that is out of harmony and more guided by selfish desire. Not only are these forces negative, but they clash with the positive healing energy, and can cause catastrophic disruptions or death. Of my friends who have played with the occult, they all suffered inexplicable curse-like attacks or deaths among their friends, and that is why I referred them to get spiritual deliverance help to break out of that cycle and not go there again.

However, Buddhism is not any of that.
If anything, Buddha taught to avoid religious attachment and dependence on any such thing, especially false desires or beliefs. So Buddhism would ultimately agree with Christianity in this area, though would still leave it for people to study and decide for themselves, based on reason, why you would want to abstain from false practices (instead of just taking this on blind faith).

In general spiritism involving false or selfish manipulation would be contrary to Buddhism which is letting go of anything false, in order to seek natural balance and spiritual harmony.

You would find natural spiritual peace and wisdom by "letting go" -- not by actively manipulating or striving by manmade effort which playing with spiritsm involves. Whatever factors make spiritism unnatural or falsely motivated,
Buddhist practices and teachings would advise to refrain or avoid those things.

They are not only unnatural, but cause suffering and foment false desire.
So these cannot be in harmony with Buddhism.

2. As for Nirvana, I disagree with many misteachings of this even among Buddhists.
a. First instead of misinterpreting "nothingness" as seeking "self-annihilation"
I would compare it to being "completely selfless" where you are in harmony with all things equally as part of creation and life. You do not cling to things out of convenience based on your "self" but consider the effect of all things to the whole, not just from your viewpoint, but with open awareness of all things in perspective.
b. As for reaching a final state of "pureland" or complete spiritual peace and end to suffering. The Buddhist monk who explained it best compared it to the Kingdom of God, or spiritual peace that dwells inside. You do not have to die physically to achieve this. (Ironically I find as many Christians as Buddhists who look to final stages "after death beyond this life" whereas I focus on relations "in this lifetime" to establish the Kingdom of God as "heaven on earth.")

I believe it is true what Buddha taught about letting go of all attachments to all things, especially thoughts and beliefs, as he did before his awareness of universal truth and wisdom came to him this way, by letting go.

I believe he presented in vague symbolic terms about the future stages of where spiritual enightenment and maturity would come for all people, and that future Buddhas would come and teach later. To borrow from the Bahai, they teach that all these spiritual leaders build in a progression, addressing different cultural audiences and periods of history.

That is where I believe that angels and prophets and teachers who have come later to bring Christ's message are the rest of the path and the vision that Buddha foresaw. There would not need to be future Buddhas if Buddha's vision was complete in itself; obviously as humanity goes through stages, then as we come closer to the final stages, different prophets would come in to teach those next steps with more specific clarity.

The key concept I see in Buddha's example was the critical turning point of letting go, and continuing this mindfulness by comparing our evaluations against the principles of wisdom and compassion for all, so anything that is not of this standard, we let go of that to open ourselves up to improving and receiving perfect wisdom and compassion as the goal and the path in life. Again, not by false striving, as if the end is more important, but living and experiencing the process and journey as peace in itself.

I believe this helps us to better "love God with all our hearts MINDS and souls"
The more we are "aware" of biases or emotional attachments that affect our judgment,
we can purify our minds and see more clearly what God's truth is in all matters.

Hi Marie: regarding suffering from actions caused by other people

The way one of my friends explained how he came to terms with this:

he decided that some of the suffering he went through from abuse from others
was somehow linked to past karma that was repeating from elsewhere.
It could be from this lifetime or beyond this life.
It could be future repercussions that occurred early in time instead of after their causes since karma is not necessarily linear in time. both the cause and the effect can be co-influenced or written in the script of life together.

For him to believe in justice, he had to believe that he is equally implicated
or responsible for his suffering as anyone else in the world has to deal with theirs.

(I asked him if he was okay with equating Jesus with this idea of divine justice that goes beyond our human conditions on justice as we know it, and he said he could see that)

As for karma, I think Sky made a good point that this may be what you are asking.

There is some karma or consequences that are directly our own doing.
Such as imposing on other people, so that they equally impose on you in return.

There is some karma that is not something we can prevent in advance or do something to change directly, though we can change things after the fact.

For example, if a person has such a bad drinking problem, and denial where even their family cannot help them; what if that person gets in the car and kills an innocent person that had nothing to do with their problem?

The problem is "we as society" did not do more to find out this person had a problem and to take preventative steps for safety before someone got killed. So all society suffers, in the form of an innocent person dying. People who see this grieve and feel mixed emotions who had nothing to do with either party. So it motivates change, so in the future more will be done to intervene to prevent the death from happening if at all possible.

Until we learn how to do this perfectly, other people continue to drive drunk and to kill others. So eventually this cycle of abuse and unresolved issues has to be broken to stop the pain and death and suffering of innocent people.

it happens as a consequence or symptom that some problem is not being solved, something is out of balance and not healthy or in harmony. So we all suffer for it.

I hope that helps.
I guess it is similar to the Christian idea of sin being passed down until the cycle is broken in Christ Jesus. We can forgive sins and give these to Christ insetad of carrying retribution in our hearts. When we make this commitment, and answer all injustice with mercy love and correction instead of judgment or punishment, we can break the cycle this way, htorugh Christ Jesus. until then, some sins from the past will continue to manifest until all are given over to this process of restorative justice, correction and healing.

Yes, it helps, thank you. It's interesting to see the differences between you and Sky.

And moreover --Awesome!! You know that Jesus Christ is our Lord! That isn't revealed to us by "man"! It's from Him! Praise Jesus!

I know you are entitled to what you believe. We aren't supposed to judge. Sooo... what I want to say and share with you, please take as an encouragement from me only. An encouragement to look at some verses, and then a link about comparing our God to Buddha, etc. Please know that I'm not looking down my nose at you, or yuck, nor should I! haha. Just want to share. And the Lord knows I have my own things He's dealing with me with, I'm not perfect. Besides, overall its between you and Jesus, and that is what is most important. We know He loves us so much, we are so blessed.

Here is an article from a Christian site that answers alot of questions in the Bible. It talks here a little bit about Buddism, and also contrasts it with Christianity. I'll just quote the last paragraph; there is alot to read.

What is Buddhism and what do Buddhists believe?




Just from that paragraph alone, do you see the differences or how it contrasts? Feel free to take your time, no rush in getting back and thank you again.



Oh and PS - some of the verses that to me anyhow, say stay away from something like Buddhism, as it would kinda like a "spiritual adultery".

Leviticus 20:6
“‘I will set my face against anyone who turns to mediums and spiritists to prostitute themselves by following them, and I will cut them off from their people.

.

I will reply more later.
In short, neither Buddha is a god nor is a substitute for Christ or God.
Developing our buddha nature or becoming a buddha is like being an angel.
Anyone can be like an angel without having to die first to go to heaven, we can live in "heaven on earth" by acting as angels would, serving and helping one another.
That is like all being children of God.

Buddha was not to be worshipped like God.
People pay him great respect because he brought Wisdom that comes from God.

So I don't see any conflict with Buddha and Jesus or God.
Moses brought laws, the Founding Fathers gave us laws that we revere today,
and them for their role in that. These are not in conflict with God or Jesus.
Einstein is almost worshipped like a god, yet he is not in conflict either.

There are many Buddhas that bring knowledge or wisdom that influence and inspire great change in the world, not just in religion but in science or other fields also.

These do not compete or conflict with Jesus or God, just like the many angels and messengers in the Bible do not compete. If there is any conflicting information in the content of the messages or teachings, that can be resolved in Christ Jesus, so the truth is established and any falseness is corrected.

Again I refer to Colossians 1:16 that all authorities are created by and given to God.
Since Jesus is Lord of lords, King of kings, and authority over the realm of man,
then all other authorities and dominions answer to his standards.

Whatever you fear about Buddhism that is impure, when you let go of that, and reject those impure false things, then what is true and pure in Buddhism that is left is in line with God's truth and wisdom in the Bible. Anything the Bible would tell you to abstain from, Buddhism would teach the same thing. The difference is that Buddhism would explain it in terms of "suffering" caused by the false things; and Christianity explains it in terms of sin.

But they would both agree that the wrong things should be avoided.
They are just two different witnesses to the same conclusions.

P.S. I can tell this is going to be a deep discussion. I look forward to hearing and sharing more,
and apologize this is not very well organized and will take time to explore in full.

With my spiritual experience, I received an explosive vision of how the past and future were connected as one truth like a story being played out, and that this was symbolized in the Bible with Jesus and the salvation process, as well as in Buddhism with the enlightenment process. But I had never studied either Christianity or Buddhism at the time I received this vision that all were coming together as one in agreement on God's truth that would unify all humanity, east and west, all religions, all nations, even with our diversity intact. So this was a nonverbal vision and then I had to go back and study how the different traditions teach this path and process to get to God's one universal truth.

I did not get the real import or impact behind any of Buddha's teachings or the Bible or Christianity
until I received this vision, And then all of it made sense. It was all true, and any contradictions
in interpretation can be resolved, just like with the misunderstandings and abuses of Bible scripture
that are not the real message in Christianity either. There are misperceptions misteachings of both,
that woud have to be set aside in order to focus on the real message and teachings in these and all religions.
Only the truth in all religions will be in accord.

So that is the narrow path in the Bible, where all things agree in truth. A very fine focus indeed.
All the other misinterpretations and misunderstandings will be put away, in order to reveal the real truth.

Doesn't Christianity fall into that very same category though? And from reading the rest of your post, it sounds to me that Christianity fulfills all of the criteria that a Buddhist would be told to avoid? Isn't one of the larget tenets of Christianity to cling to Jesus, to bring things to Him, to rely on Him, etc.. that doesn't sound like it would fall in with the Buddhist practice of 'letting go' as you described it above? I'm with Marie, I don't think the two philosophies can be married, they clearly have two different belief sets that are in opposition with each other.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Yes, I agree in a sense. Personally, as for me, I mean... if I were to add Buddha to my faith in Jesus Christ, I'd feel like I was sinning. As far as I understand, God doesn't want us to turn to other things like mediums, spiritists, which for me, would be Buddhism. Some of the teachings are totally different like when it comes to sinning against our Holy God, and also the "Nirvana" with Buddhism.

.

If God doesn't want you to turn to Buddhism why are you talking to Buddhists? To try and convert us? Wouldn't any form of communication with Buddhists other than to convert us be a sin to you?

'Nirvana' is not a universal Buddhist concept by the way.

How do you come to that conclusion?

Because Marie is not really talking about Buddhism from interest, she is talking about it as something to be avoided.

 

[Newby]

If God doesn't want you to turn to Buddhism why are you talking to Buddhists? To try and convert us? Wouldn't any form of communication with Buddhists other than to convert us be a sin to you?

'Nirvana' is not a universal Buddhist concept by the way.

How do you come to that conclusion?

Because Marie is not really talking about Buddhism from interest, she is talking about it as something to be avoided.

I guess that would depend on whether the 'you' in your question was in regards to Marie specifically or to Marie in general as a Christian? If it's in general, as a christian, talking to someone outside of your christian beliefs is not a sin, nor have I ever heard anyone say that it is.

 

[Sky Dancer]

How do you come to that conclusion?

Because Marie is not really talking about Buddhism from interest, she is talking about it as something to be avoided.

I guess that would depend on whether the 'you' in your question was in regards to Marie specifically or to Marie in general as a Christian? If it's in general, as a christian, talking to someone outside of your christian beliefs is not a sin, nor have I ever heard anyone say that it is.

As near as I can tell, from Marie's post, the only way that she is allowed to learn about
Buddhism is from a Christian website with an obvious bias.

She wants to discuss Buddhism ONLY from the perspective of her Christian teachings in order to convince Buddhists that our teachings are wrong.

Thats' a completely different perspective from someone wanting to know more about Buddhism for it's own sake. Marie indicates this is counter to her Christian training.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Hi Marie: Thank you for your detailed reply and background on where you are coming from. Because we are both thinking so differently about what these things mean, it may take time to sort our what you are saying from what I am saying. I believe your points and mine are both valid, and do not have to contradict once we resolve where that is coming from.

I will reply later in more detail.
Just for now:
1. I agree about avoiding spiritism and false manipulation of spiritual forces that is out of harmony and more guided by selfish desire. Not only are these forces negative, but they clash with the positive healing energy, and can cause catastrophic disruptions or death. Of my friends who have played with the occult, they all suffered inexplicable curse-like attacks or deaths among their friends, and that is why I referred them to get spiritual deliverance help to break out of that cycle and not go there again.

However, Buddhism is not any of that.
If anything, Buddha taught to avoid religious attachment and dependence on any such thing, especially false desires or beliefs. So Buddhism would ultimately agree with Christianity in this area, though would still leave it for people to study and decide for themselves, based on reason, why you would want to abstain from false practices (instead of just taking this on blind faith).

In general spiritism involving false or selfish manipulation would be contrary to Buddhism which is letting go of anything false, in order to seek natural balance and spiritual harmony.

You would find natural spiritual peace and wisdom by "letting go" -- not by actively manipulating or striving by manmade effort which playing with spiritsm involves. Whatever factors make spiritism unnatural or falsely motivated,
Buddhist practices and teachings would advise to refrain or avoid those things.

They are not only unnatural, but cause suffering and foment false desire.
So these cannot be in harmony with Buddhism.

2. As for Nirvana, I disagree with many misteachings of this even among Buddhists.
a. First instead of misinterpreting "nothingness" as seeking "self-annihilation"
I would compare it to being "completely selfless" where you are in harmony with all things equally as part of creation and life. You do not cling to things out of convenience based on your "self" but consider the effect of all things to the whole, not just from your viewpoint, but with open awareness of all things in perspective.
b. As for reaching a final state of "pureland" or complete spiritual peace and end to suffering. The Buddhist monk who explained it best compared it to the Kingdom of God, or spiritual peace that dwells inside. You do not have to die physically to achieve this. (Ironically I find as many Christians as Buddhists who look to final stages "after death beyond this life" whereas I focus on relations "in this lifetime" to establish the Kingdom of God as "heaven on earth.")

I believe it is true what Buddha taught about letting go of all attachments to all things, especially thoughts and beliefs, as he did before his awareness of universal truth and wisdom came to him this way, by letting go.

I believe he presented in vague symbolic terms about the future stages of where spiritual enightenment and maturity would come for all people, and that future Buddhas would come and teach later. To borrow from the Bahai, they teach that all these spiritual leaders build in a progression, addressing different cultural audiences and periods of history.

That is where I believe that angels and prophets and teachers who have come later to bring Christ's message are the rest of the path and the vision that Buddha foresaw. There would not need to be future Buddhas if Buddha's vision was complete in itself; obviously as humanity goes through stages, then as we come closer to the final stages, different prophets would come in to teach those next steps with more specific clarity.

The key concept I see in Buddha's example was the critical turning point of letting go, and continuing this mindfulness by comparing our evaluations against the principles of wisdom and compassion for all, so anything that is not of this standard, we let go of that to open ourselves up to improving and receiving perfect wisdom and compassion as the goal and the path in life. Again, not by false striving, as if the end is more important, but living and experiencing the process and journey as peace in itself.

I believe this helps us to better "love God with all our hearts MINDS and souls"
The more we are "aware" of biases or emotional attachments that affect our judgment,
we can purify our minds and see more clearly what God's truth is in all matters.

Yes, it helps, thank you. It's interesting to see the differences between you and Sky.

And moreover --Awesome!! You know that Jesus Christ is our Lord! That isn't revealed to us by "man"! It's from Him! Praise Jesus!

I know you are entitled to what you believe. We aren't supposed to judge. Sooo... what I want to say and share with you, please take as an encouragement from me only. An encouragement to look at some verses, and then a link about comparing our God to Buddha, etc. Please know that I'm not looking down my nose at you, or yuck, nor should I! haha. Just want to share. And the Lord knows I have my own things He's dealing with me with, I'm not perfect. Besides, overall its between you and Jesus, and that is what is most important. We know He loves us so much, we are so blessed.

Here is an article from a Christian site that answers alot of questions in the Bible. It talks here a little bit about Buddism, and also contrasts it with Christianity. I'll just quote the last paragraph; there is alot to read.

What is Buddhism and what do Buddhists believe?




Just from that paragraph alone, do you see the differences or how it contrasts? Feel free to take your time, no rush in getting back and thank you again.



Oh and PS - some of the verses that to me anyhow, say stay away from something like Buddhism, as it would kinda like a "spiritual adultery".






.

I will reply more later.
In short, neither Buddha is a god nor is a substitute for Christ or God.
Developing our buddha nature or becoming a buddha is like being an angel.
Anyone can be like an angel without having to die first to go to heaven, we can live in "heaven on earth" by acting as angels would, serving and helping one another.
That is like all being children of God.

Buddha was not to be worshipped like God.
People pay him great respect because he brought Wisdom that comes from God.

So I don't see any conflict with Buddha and Jesus or God.
Moses brought laws, the Founding Fathers gave us laws that we revere today,
and them for their role in that. These are not in conflict with God or Jesus.
Einstein is almost worshipped like a god, yet he is not in conflict either.

There are many Buddhas that bring knowledge or wisdom that influence and inspire great change in the world, not just in religion but in science or other fields also.

These do not compete or conflict with Jesus or God, just like the many angels and messengers in the Bible do not compete. If there is any conflicting information in the content of the messages or teachings, that can be resolved in Christ Jesus, so the truth is established and any falseness is corrected.

Again I refer to Colossians 1:16 that all authorities are created by and given to God.
Since Jesus is Lord of lords, King of kings, and authority over the realm of man,
then all other authorities and dominions answer to his standards.

Whatever you fear about Buddhism that is impure, when you let go of that, and reject those impure false things, then what is true and pure in Buddhism that is left is in line with God's truth and wisdom in the Bible. Anything the Bible would tell you to abstain from, Buddhism would teach the same thing. The difference is that Buddhism would explain it in terms of "suffering" caused by the false things; and Christianity explains it in terms of sin.

But they would both agree that the wrong things should be avoided.
They are just two different witnesses to the same conclusions.

P.S. I can tell this is going to be a deep discussion. I look forward to hearing and sharing more,
and apologize this is not very well organized and will take time to explore in full.

With my spiritual experience, I received an explosive vision of how the past and future were connected as one truth like a story being played out, and that this was symbolized in the Bible with Jesus and the salvation process, as well as in Buddhism with the enlightenment process. But I had never studied either Christianity or Buddhism at the time I received this vision that all were coming together as one in agreement on God's truth that would unify all humanity, east and west, all religions, all nations, even with our diversity intact. So this was a nonverbal vision and then I had to go back and study how the different traditions teach this path and process to get to God's one universal truth.

I did not get the real import or impact behind any of Buddha's teachings or the Bible or Christianity
until I received this vision, And then all of it made sense. It was all true, and any contradictions
in interpretation can be resolved, just like with the misunderstandings and abuses of Bible scripture
that are not the real message in Christianity either. There are misperceptions misteachings of both,
that woud have to be set aside in order to focus on the real message and teachings in these and all religions.
Only the truth in all religions will be in accord.

So that is the narrow path in the Bible, where all things agree in truth. A very fine focus indeed.
All the other misinterpretations and misunderstandings will be put away, in order to reveal the real truth.

Doesn't Christianity fall into that very same category though? And from reading the rest of your post, it sounds to me that Christianity fulfills all of the criteria that a Buddhist would be told to avoid? Isn't one of the larget tenets of Christianity to cling to Jesus, to bring things to Him, to rely on Him, etc.. that doesn't sound like it would fall in with the Buddhist practice of 'letting go' as you described it above? I'm with Marie, I don't think the two philosophies can be married, they clearly have two different belief sets that are in opposition with each other.

Buddhism and Christianity should be kept separate. I don't think Buddhists and Christians should even be talking to each other. I have nothing positive to say about Christians or Christianity. I like Jesus, though, but I don't want to talk about him either since the evangelists will take that as an invitation to convert me.

Let's let Christians be the best Christians they can be and let Buddhists do the same.

I completely give up trying to convince anyone of the validity of Buddhist teachings. I resign.

 

[dilloduck]

Hi Marie: Thank you for your detailed reply and background on where you are coming from. Because we are both thinking so differently about what these things mean, it may take time to sort our what you are saying from what I am saying. I believe your points and mine are both valid, and do not have to contradict once we resolve where that is coming from.

I will reply later in more detail.
Just for now:
1. I agree about avoiding spiritism and false manipulation of spiritual forces that is out of harmony and more guided by selfish desire. Not only are these forces negative, but they clash with the positive healing energy, and can cause catastrophic disruptions or death. Of my friends who have played with the occult, they all suffered inexplicable curse-like attacks or deaths among their friends, and that is why I referred them to get spiritual deliverance help to break out of that cycle and not go there again.

However, Buddhism is not any of that.
If anything,
Surre Buddha taught to avoid religious attachment and dependence on any such thing, especially false desires or beliefs. So Buddhism would ultimately agree with Christianity in this area, though would still leave it for people to study and decide for themselves, based on reason, why you would want to abstain from false practices (instead of just taking this on blind faith).

In general spiritism involving false or selfish manipulation would be contrary to Buddhism which is letting go of anything false, in order to seek natural balance and spiritual harmony.

You would find natural spiritual peace and wisdom by "letting go" -- not by actively manipulating or striving by manmade effort which playing with spiritsm involves. Whatever factors make spiritism unnatural or falsely motivated,
Buddhist practices and teachings would advise to refrain or avoid those things.

They are not only unnatural, but cause suffering and foment false desire.
So these cannot be in harmony with Buddhism.

2. As for Nirvana, I disagree with many misteachings of this even among Buddhists.
a. First instead of misinterpreting "nothingness" as seeking "self-annihilation"
I would compare it to being "completely selfless" where you are in harmony with all things equally as part of creation and life. You do not cling to things out of convenience based on your "self" but consider the effect of all things to the whole, not just from your viewpoint, but with open awareness of all things in perspective.
b. As for reaching a final state of "pureland" or complete spiritual peace and end to suffering. The Buddhist monk who explained it best compared it to the Kingdom of God, or spiritual peace that dwells inside. You do not have to die physically to achieve this. (Ironically I find as many Christians as Buddhists who look to final stages "after death beyond this life" whereas I focus on relations "in this lifetime" to establish the Kingdom of God as "heaven on earth.")

I believe it is true what Buddha taught about letting go of all attachments to all things, especially thoughts and beliefs, as he did before his awareness of universal truth and wisdom came to him this way, by letting go.

I believe he presented in vague symbolic terms about the future stages of where spiritual enightenment and maturity would come for all people, and that future Buddhas would come and teach later. To borrow from the Bahai, they teach that all these spiritual leaders build in a progression, addressing different cultural audiences and periods of history.

That is where I believe that angels and prophets and teachers who have come later to bring Christ's message are the rest of the path and the vision that Buddha foresaw. There would not need to be future Buddhas if Buddha's vision was complete in itself; obviously as humanity goes through stages, then as we come closer to the final stages, different prophets would come in to teach those next steps with more specific clarity.

The key concept I see in Buddha's example was the critical turning point of letting go, and continuing this mindfulness by comparing our evaluations against the principles of wisdom and compassion for all, so anything that is not of this standard, we let go of that to open ourselves up to improving and receiving perfect wisdom and compassion as the goal and the path in life. Again, not by false striving, as if the end is more important, but living and experiencing the process and journey as peace in itself.

I believe this helps us to better "love God with all our hearts MINDS and souls"
The more we are "aware" of biases or emotional attachments that affect our judgment,
we can purify our minds and see more clearly what God's truth is in all matters.



I will reply more later.
In short, neither Buddha is a god nor is a substitute for Christ or God.
Developing our buddha nature or becoming a buddha is like being an angel.
Anyone can be like an angel without having to die first to go to heaven, we can live in "heaven on earth" by acting as angels would, serving and helping one another.
That is like all being children of God.

Buddha was not to be worshipped like God.
People pay him great respect because he brought Wisdom that comes from God.

So I don't see any conflict with Buddha and Jesus or God.
Moses brought laws, the Founding Fathers gave us laws that we revere today,
and them for their role in that. These are not in conflict with God or Jesus.
Einstein is almost worshipped like a god, yet he is not in conflict either.

There are many Buddhas that bring knowledge or wisdom that influence and inspire great change in the world, not just in religion but in science or other fields also.

These do not compete or conflict with Jesus or God, just like the many angels and messengers in the Bible do not compete. If there is any conflicting information in the content of the messages or teachings, that can be resolved in Christ Jesus, so the truth is established and any falseness is corrected.

Again I refer to Colossians 1:16 that all authorities are created by and given to God.
Since Jesus is Lord of lords, King of kings, and authority over the realm of man,
then all other authorities and dominions answer to his standards.

Whatever you fear about Buddhism that is impure, when you let go of that, and reject those impure false things, then what is true and pure in Buddhism that is left is in line with God's truth and wisdom in the Bible. Anything the Bible would tell you to abstain from, Buddhism would teach the same thing. The difference is that Buddhism would explain it in terms of "suffering" caused by the false things; and Christianity explains it in terms of sin.

But they would both agree that the wrong things should be avoided.
They are just two different witnesses to the same conclusions.

P.S. I can tell this is going to be a deep discussion. I look forward to hearing and sharing more,
and apologize this is not very well organized and will take time to explore in full.

With my spiritual experience, I received an explosive vision of how the past and future were connected as one truth like a story being played out, and that this was symbolized in the Bible with Jesus and the salvation process, as well as in Buddhism with the enlightenment process. But I had never studied either Christianity or Buddhism at the time I received this vision that all were coming together as one in agreement on God's truth that would unify all humanity, east and west, all religions, all nations, even with our diversity intact. So this was a nonverbal vision and then I had to go back and study how the different traditions teach this path and process to get to God's one universal truth.

I did not get the real import or impact behind any of Buddha's teachings or the Bible or Christianity
until I received this vision, And then all of it made sense. It was all true, and any contradictions
in interpretation can be resolved, just like with the misunderstandings and abuses of Bible scripture
that are not the real message in Christianity either. There are misperceptions misteachings of both,
that woud have to be set aside in order to focus on the real message and teachings in these and all religions.
Only the truth in all religions will be in accord.

So that is the narrow path in the Bible, where all things agree in truth. A very fine focus indeed.
All the other misinterpretations and misunderstandings will be put away, in order to reveal the real truth.

Doesn't Christianity fall into that very same category though? And from reading the rest of your post, it sounds to me that Christianity fulfills all of the criteria that a Buddhist would be told to avoid? Isn't one of the larget tenets of Christianity to cling to Jesus, to bring things to Him, to rely on Him, etc.. that doesn't sound like it would fall in with the Buddhist practice of 'letting go' as you described it above? I'm with Marie, I don't think the two philosophies can be married, they clearly have two different belief sets that are in opposition with each other.

Buddhism and Christianity should be kept separate. I don't think Buddhists and Christians should even be talking to each other.

Let's let Christians be the best Christians they can be and let Buddhists do the same.

I completely give up trying to convince anyone of the validity of Buddhist teachings. I resign.

yet you are angry when someone else tries to convince you of the validity of Christian teachings ? Surrendering is a great idea.

 

[Marie888]

I don't feel that Buddhist and Christian teachings should be mixed. The teachings may sometimes complement each other. I think Christians should stay Christian and Buddhists stay Buddhist.

If you're Christian, be the best Christian you can be. If you're a Buddhist, be the best Buddhist you can be.

Yes, I agree in a sense. Personally, as for me, I mean... if I were to add Buddha to my faith in Jesus Christ, I'd feel like I was sinning. As far as I understand, God doesn't want us to turn to other things like mediums, spiritists, which for me, would be Buddhism. Some of the teachings are totally different like when it comes to sinning against our Holy God, and also the "Nirvana" with Buddhism.

.

If God doesn't want you to turn to Buddhism why are you talking to Buddhists? To try and convert us? Wouldn't any form of communication with Buddhists other than to convert us be a sin to you?

'Nirvana' is not a universal Buddhist concept by the way.

As far as I know, its not a sin to talk to Buddhists or anyone, for that matter. Also, I think it's pretty clear from the website I used and the 10 questions it asked that yes, I starting this thread from a Christian perspective. I wasn't trying to hide that or anything. However, I personally cannot convert anyone though, as I'm not God. Thanks for your input and replies.

 

[emilynghiem]

Hi Marie: I prayed and thought about what you said, and I believe you are wise.
I agree it is best not to approach anything to do with Buddhism if it makes you feel uncomfortable or triggers a sense that something is wrong. That means this is not in harmony with your purpose or path. So I don't think Buddha would recommend that approach to understanding his teachings. That would contradict what even he believed.

Since you and I share a foundation in faith in Christ Jesus, why don't we start there.
Explore and get to know where we agree or differ there, first, as fellow believers in Christ. Once we understand where each other is coming from (which is an entire exploration in itself) after that, where we establish where we agree, then we could explore other ideas and avenues in that context of agreement in truth.

But I would first want to make sure we stay on the same page, even as Christians, so we don't introduce any unnecessary conflict or misunderstanding.

So far, I agree with you to avoid spiritism which is not only false/misleading/selfish but also dangerous in forms that clash with positive spiritual healing, energy and prayers.

I agree not to put any thing, any person or idol or belief above God.
We both use the Bible to teach this, but I believe Buddhism teaches it even stronger to refrain from any false beliefs or worship based on authority of others.

I believe the spirit of truth and Christ Jesus fulfills all true laws and teachings, both divine or natural since God created both realms, and that anything false can be corrected in the process.

Where we may differ is how we see the process of salvation and heaven.
I see some steps that occur on earth, as we bring the spirit of truth and peace in Christ Jesus into our relations with each other in the here and now. We build the Kingdom of God on earth, and the Bible says what we loose on earth is loosed in heaven what is bound on earth is bound in heaven. So what we do here is a reflection of what God the Father does.

Where two or three agree in Christ on anything that touches the earth it is done by the Father in Heaven; or thinking globally, acting locally where collectively it multiplies everywhere.

[I also find some Christians focus on human nature as originally sinful vs. created first in the image of God BEFORE sin was introduced later to befall man. I believe the point of Christ is to overcome the sinful conditions to restore God's original design and will for our lives and everything in the world to be used for good not evil. So this is another point where you and I may differ as Christians in our understanding.]

So if you would like to explore together, I prefer to start with where we are and where we agree as Christians in our faith and understanding, before adding anything else in addition to that. So that we always proceed and discuss in the spirit of agreement in Christ Jesus. And anything that is conflicting may be corrected in that spirit.

Does that sound fair to you?

Thank you Marie
I will list below how I align the spirit of the teachings in
Buddhism with the spirit of the teachings in Christianity
to form a foundation in agreement and harmony
From there, I would then compare and contrast any other
interpretations of any other belief or teaching to make sure they
are in harmony and not introducing conflict unless the point is to resolve that

Yours truly,
Emily

Spirit of the laws in Christianity
Where I find all Christians agree is based on:
A. God the Father
B. Jesus the Son or Word of God
C. the Holy Spirit - which we receive as the church body joined in Christ
Two Great commandments on which all laws and prophets are based
(plus New commandment Jesus brings that joins the other two as one)
1. To love God with all our heart mind and soul
3. To love our Neighbor as ourselves
2. To love one another as Jesus loves us
(ie unconditionally as God not conditionally as man)

Spirit of the teachings in Buddhism
A. Buddha - One who knows (perfect wisdom spiritual perfection)
B. Dharma - laws of cause and effect/karma, justice, doctrine/duty/teachings
C. Sangha - order or peaceful community
Two basic promises (from which all Buddhist teachings are based)
1. To develop our wisdom or seek perfect understanding of truth
2. To develop our compassion or seek perfect love which is called charity in the Bible
[3. I believe a third promise should be added about
the third level of the Sangha, such as developing peaceful communication
or building peaceful relations and community with others, which is called
building the church in the Christian faith]

When I adhere to these basic principles or spirit of the laws/teachings
there is harmony between these
* the spiritual level of God and universal/collective truth and wisdom
* the level of Christ we know by conscience, we receive knowledge
and commitment to "LAWS" of love, justice, truth and embody this ourselves
* the physical level where the Holy Spirit unifies and heals the church
body, where in Buddhism the community is called the Sangha

That is also how I practice Constitutional principles
by respecting the three levels there
* Judicial or level of judgment on truth and justice
* Legislative level of establishing laws or contracts by conscience in relation with each other and with the Greater Good that God represents
* Executive level of carrying out and living by laws of freedom, peace, justice for all people equally

That is a whole other discussion, sorry.
If we can just start with our Christian foundation we share,
and work from there, we can explore any number of other laws or practices
in relation to what we find to be true in Christ Jesus and the Bible.

I don't mind addressing conflicts, but for the purpose of correction.
Not for contrasting to compete to discredit this or that.
So I'd rather enforce where we agree and add to that.
I believe any benefit Buddhism would have for you or me as Christians is to enhance our ability to understand God and follow our path and purpose, while also being able to love our neighbors who are diverse without compromising truth and faith.

The point of Buddhism is for each person to realize their unique path and purpose toward spiritual perfection. So if your path is through Christianity, the purpose is to help you realize that more fully, to enhance your understanding and practice in life.

 

[Marie888]

If God doesn't want you to turn to Buddhism why are you talking to Buddhists? To try and convert us? Wouldn't any form of communication with Buddhists other than to convert us be a sin to you?

'Nirvana' is not a universal Buddhist concept by the way.

How do you come to that conclusion?

Because Marie is not really talking about Buddhism from interest, she is talking about it as something to be avoided.

Yes, again, I thought it would be clear from the questions designed and the site that yeah, it's meant to question Buddha from a Christian perspective. Not trying to hide anything here. To me, it's kinda like you asking questions about Christianity or what Christians think about something here. I hope not to offend you. We already know we believe differently, but yeah my profile page even says I wanna share about Jesus.

It's all cool, eh?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Marie-

If you want to share about Jesus, do so. Don't start a Buddhist thread when you have no sincere interest in Buddhism for it's own sake. You're only interested in comparing the two to put Buddhism down.

Stick to Jesus and leave Buddhism alone. Christians and Buddhists have nothing in common. Nothing, except common humanity.

On the other hand, if this is a bash Buddhism thread, I suppose we're due for one. Carry on.

I've started plenty of bash Christian threads myself.

I'm sure you'll find lots of takers for discussing Jesus.

 

[Marie888]

Hi Marie: Thank you for your detailed reply and background on where you are coming from. Because we are both thinking so differently about what these things mean, it may take time to sort our what you are saying from what I am saying. I believe your points and mine are both valid, and do not have to contradict once we resolve where that is coming from.

I will reply later in more detail.
Just for now:
1. I agree about avoiding spiritism and false manipulation of spiritual forces that is out of harmony and more guided by selfish desire. Not only are these forces negative, but they clash with the positive healing energy, and can cause catastrophic disruptions or death. Of my friends who have played with the occult, they all suffered inexplicable curse-like attacks or deaths among their friends, and that is why I referred them to get spiritual deliverance help to break out of that cycle and not go there again.

However, Buddhism is not any of that.
If anything, Buddha taught to avoid religious attachment and dependence on any such thing, especially false desires or beliefs. So Buddhism would ultimately agree with Christianity in this area, though would still leave it for people to study and decide for themselves, based on reason, why you would want to abstain from false practices (instead of just taking this on blind faith).

In general spiritism involving false or selfish manipulation would be contrary to Buddhism which is letting go of anything false, in order to seek natural balance and spiritual harmony.

You would find natural spiritual peace and wisdom by "letting go" -- not by actively manipulating or striving by manmade effort which playing with spiritsm involves. Whatever factors make spiritism unnatural or falsely motivated,
Buddhist practices and teachings would advise to refrain or avoid those things.

They are not only unnatural, but cause suffering and foment false desire.
So these cannot be in harmony with Buddhism.

2. As for Nirvana, I disagree with many misteachings of this even among Buddhists.
a. First instead of misinterpreting "nothingness" as seeking "self-annihilation"
I would compare it to being "completely selfless" where you are in harmony with all things equally as part of creation and life. You do not cling to things out of convenience based on your "self" but consider the effect of all things to the whole, not just from your viewpoint, but with open awareness of all things in perspective.
b. As for reaching a final state of "pureland" or complete spiritual peace and end to suffering. The Buddhist monk who explained it best compared it to the Kingdom of God, or spiritual peace that dwells inside. You do not have to die physically to achieve this. (Ironically I find as many Christians as Buddhists who look to final stages "after death beyond this life" whereas I focus on relations "in this lifetime" to establish the Kingdom of God as "heaven on earth.")

I believe it is true what Buddha taught about letting go of all attachments to all things, especially thoughts and beliefs, as he did before his awareness of universal truth and wisdom came to him this way, by letting go.

I believe he presented in vague symbolic terms about the future stages of where spiritual enightenment and maturity would come for all people, and that future Buddhas would come and teach later. To borrow from the Bahai, they teach that all these spiritual leaders build in a progression, addressing different cultural audiences and periods of history.

That is where I believe that angels and prophets and teachers who have come later to bring Christ's message are the rest of the path and the vision that Buddha foresaw. There would not need to be future Buddhas if Buddha's vision was complete in itself; obviously as humanity goes through stages, then as we come closer to the final stages, different prophets would come in to teach those next steps with more specific clarity.

The key concept I see in Buddha's example was the critical turning point of letting go, and continuing this mindfulness by comparing our evaluations against the principles of wisdom and compassion for all, so anything that is not of this standard, we let go of that to open ourselves up to improving and receiving perfect wisdom and compassion as the goal and the path in life. Again, not by false striving, as if the end is more important, but living and experiencing the process and journey as peace in itself.

I believe this helps us to better "love God with all our hearts MINDS and souls"
The more we are "aware" of biases or emotional attachments that affect our judgment,
we can purify our minds and see more clearly what God's truth is in all matters.

Hi Marie: regarding suffering from actions caused by other people

The way one of my friends explained how he came to terms with this:

he decided that some of the suffering he went through from abuse from others
was somehow linked to past karma that was repeating from elsewhere.
It could be from this lifetime or beyond this life.
It could be future repercussions that occurred early in time instead of after their causes since karma is not necessarily linear in time. both the cause and the effect can be co-influenced or written in the script of life together.

For him to believe in justice, he had to believe that he is equally implicated
or responsible for his suffering as anyone else in the world has to deal with theirs.

(I asked him if he was okay with equating Jesus with this idea of divine justice that goes beyond our human conditions on justice as we know it, and he said he could see that)

As for karma, I think Sky made a good point that this may be what you are asking.

There is some karma or consequences that are directly our own doing.
Such as imposing on other people, so that they equally impose on you in return.

There is some karma that is not something we can prevent in advance or do something to change directly, though we can change things after the fact.

For example, if a person has such a bad drinking problem, and denial where even their family cannot help them; what if that person gets in the car and kills an innocent person that had nothing to do with their problem?

The problem is "we as society" did not do more to find out this person had a problem and to take preventative steps for safety before someone got killed. So all society suffers, in the form of an innocent person dying. People who see this grieve and feel mixed emotions who had nothing to do with either party. So it motivates change, so in the future more will be done to intervene to prevent the death from happening if at all possible.

Until we learn how to do this perfectly, other people continue to drive drunk and to kill others. So eventually this cycle of abuse and unresolved issues has to be broken to stop the pain and death and suffering of innocent people.

it happens as a consequence or symptom that some problem is not being solved, something is out of balance and not healthy or in harmony. So we all suffer for it.

I hope that helps.
I guess it is similar to the Christian idea of sin being passed down until the cycle is broken in Christ Jesus. We can forgive sins and give these to Christ insetad of carrying retribution in our hearts. When we make this commitment, and answer all injustice with mercy love and correction instead of judgment or punishment, we can break the cycle this way, htorugh Christ Jesus. until then, some sins from the past will continue to manifest until all are given over to this process of restorative justice, correction and healing.

Yes, it helps, thank you. It's interesting to see the differences between you and Sky.

And moreover --Awesome!! You know that Jesus Christ is our Lord! That isn't revealed to us by "man"! It's from Him! Praise Jesus!

I know you are entitled to what you believe. We aren't supposed to judge. Sooo... what I want to say and share with you, please take as an encouragement from me only. An encouragement to look at some verses, and then a link about comparing our God to Buddha, etc. Please know that I'm not looking down my nose at you, or yuck, nor should I! haha. Just want to share. And the Lord knows I have my own things He's dealing with me with, I'm not perfect. Besides, overall its between you and Jesus, and that is what is most important. We know He loves us so much, we are so blessed.

Here is an article from a Christian site that answers alot of questions in the Bible. It talks here a little bit about Buddism, and also contrasts it with Christianity. I'll just quote the last paragraph; there is alot to read.

What is Buddhism and what do Buddhists believe?




Just from that paragraph alone, do you see the differences or how it contrasts? Feel free to take your time, no rush in getting back and thank you again.



Oh and PS - some of the verses that to me anyhow, say stay away from something like Buddhism, as it would kinda like a "spiritual adultery".

Leviticus 20:6
“‘I will set my face against anyone who turns to mediums and spiritists to prostitute themselves by following them, and I will cut them off from their people.

.

I will reply more later.
In short, neither Buddha is a god nor is a substitute for Christ or God.
Developing our buddha nature or becoming a buddha is like being an angel.
Anyone can be like an angel without having to die first to go to heaven, we can live in "heaven on earth" by acting as angels would, serving and helping one another.
That is like all being children of God.

Buddha was not to be worshipped like God.
People pay him great respect because he brought Wisdom that comes from God.

So I don't see any conflict with Buddha and Jesus or God.
Moses brought laws, the Founding Fathers gave us laws that we revere today,
and them for their role in that. These are not in conflict with God or Jesus.
Einstein is almost worshipped like a god, yet he is not in conflict either.

There are many Buddhas that bring knowledge or wisdom that influence and inspire great change in the world, not just in religion but in science or other fields also.

These do not compete or conflict with Jesus or God, just like the many angels and messengers in the Bible do not compete. If there is any conflicting information in the content of the messages or teachings, that can be resolved in Christ Jesus, so the truth is established and any falseness is corrected.

Again I refer to Colossians 1:16 that all authorities are created by and given to God.
Since Jesus is Lord of lords, King of kings, and authority over the realm of man,
then all other authorities and dominions answer to his standards.

Whatever you fear about Buddhism that is impure, when you let go of that, and reject those impure false things, then what is true and pure in Buddhism that is left is in line with God's truth and wisdom in the Bible. Anything the Bible would tell you to abstain from, Buddhism would teach the same thing. The difference is that Buddhism would explain it in terms of "suffering" caused by the false things; and Christianity explains it in terms of sin.

But they would both agree that the wrong things should be avoided.
They are just two different witnesses to the same conclusions.

P.S. I can tell this is going to be a deep discussion. I look forward to hearing and sharing more,
and apologize this is not very well organized and will take time to explore in full.

With my spiritual experience, I received an explosive vision of how the past and future were connected as one truth like a story being played out, and that this was symbolized in the Bible with Jesus and the salvation process, as well as in Buddhism with the enlightenment process. But I had never studied either Christianity or Buddhism at the time I received this vision that all were coming together as one in agreement on God's truth that would unify all humanity, east and west, all religions, all nations, even with our diversity intact. So this was a nonverbal vision and then I had to go back and study how the different traditions teach this path and process to get to God's one universal truth.

I did not get the real import or impact behind any of Buddha's teachings or the Bible or Christianity
until I received this vision, And then all of it made sense. It was all true, and any contradictions
in interpretation can be resolved, just like with the misunderstandings and abuses of Bible scripture
that are not the real message in Christianity either. There are misperceptions misteachings of both,
that woud have to be set aside in order to focus on the real message and teachings in these and all religions.
Only the truth in all religions will be in accord.

So that is the narrow path in the Bible, where all things agree in truth. A very fine focus indeed.
All the other misinterpretations and misunderstandings will be put away, in order to reveal the real truth.

Thank you also for your contribution of what you believe and perceive. From what I've learned, I still don't agree, even after your explanation, but that's irrelevant. You have the choice to believe what you believe, as do I. And it looks like we are both sticking to it, hehe. I don't wanna get in any sort of word battle or anything. Just wanna keep cool. I presented the case, you answered, and you have a different view. I'm sure you'll agree, that we can agree to disagree..LOL. You don't have to further explain or take time then. But again, thank you.

 

[emilynghiem]

yet you are angry when someone else tries to convince you of the validity of Christian teachings ? Surrendering is a great idea.

Dear Dilloduck: Anger is one phase of the grieving and recovery process in order to heal.
If someone still holds pain and anger or personal bias because of past trauma or abuse, it can't just be ordered away. It takes time to work through the causes and cures of the pains that caused this reaction. May I please suggest being more gentle and understanding of Sky, that she may have been through experiences that may take her more time. From my friends that are much more rejecting of people because of past religious abuses, the environment of forgiveness and openness is more conducive for people like that to heal and let go. The more conflict and reaction back and forth, it causes people to close down and shut out even more, so it has the opposite effect. She needs to work through this her own way, and can't be told when and where to take what steps from the outside. Grief and recovery work that way, where people's timing and stages are what they are. The most we can do is walk with people and keep them safe while they heal, but cannot tell them when to take what steps. I have friends who have overcome much worse rejection than Sky, and it took a long time, over years and years to let go.
People's wounds run very deep, and just because we got over something doesn't mean it is so easy for the other person who doesn't even appear to have issues in comparison.
Take care and thanks for your concern.
I know you mean well, and I appreciate that you care.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Buddhists and Christians trying to talk to each other about religion is a joke. We speak different languages.

It's pretty amazing the amount of work Christians will go to get a convert. They have whole courses on
"how to talk to a catholic', how to talk to a Muslim, how to talk to a buddhist. All with the goal of turning each into Christians.

 

[Marie888]

Marie-

If you want to share about Jesus, do so. Don't start a Buddhist thread when you have no sincere interest in Buddhism for it's own sake. You're only interested in comparing the two to put Buddhism down.

Stick to Jesus and leave Buddhism alone. Christians and Buddhists have nothing in common. Nothing, except common humanity.

On the other hand, if this is a bash Buddhism thread, I suppose we're due for one. Carry on.

I've started plenty of bash Christian threads myself.

I'm sure you'll find lots of takers for discussing Jesus.

Well yes, the questions designed (not sure if you read them?) were meant for discussing Buddism from the view that it's not true. I'm getting different answers, some believe in Nirvana, some dont, some believe you can combine Buddhism with Christianity, some don't.
But unless there's a thread or a mod tells me I've done something wrong, what's wrong with it? If you don't wanna partake or answer, I won't be offended, nor am I offended with your answers. You shared, thank you. It's cool.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Doesn't Christianity fall into that very same category though? And from reading the rest of your post, it sounds to me that Christianity fulfills all of the criteria that a Buddhist would be told to avoid? Isn't one of the larget tenets of Christianity to cling to Jesus, to bring things to Him, to rely on Him, etc.. that doesn't sound like it would fall in with the Buddhist practice of 'letting go' as you described it above? I'm with Marie, I don't think the two philosophies can be married, they clearly have two different belief sets that are in opposition with each other.

Buddhism and Christianity should be kept separate. I don't think Buddhists and Christians should even be talking to each other.

Let's let Christians be the best Christians they can be and let Buddhists do the same.

I completely give up trying to convince anyone of the validity of Buddhist teachings. I resign.

yet you are angry when someone else tries to convince you of the validity of Christian teachings ? Surrendering is a great idea.

I am angry when someone tries to convince me that Buddhism is invalid. I'm working with my anger and taking responsibility for it, however.

Keeping proselytizing Christians out of my face is a personal goal. Christians, I have closed the door to your faith. Respect that. Don't aggress and knock it down.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Marie-

If you want to share about Jesus, do so. Don't start a Buddhist thread when you have no sincere interest in Buddhism for it's own sake. You're only interested in comparing the two to put Buddhism down.

Stick to Jesus and leave Buddhism alone. Christians and Buddhists have nothing in common. Nothing, except common humanity.

On the other hand, if this is a bash Buddhism thread, I suppose we're due for one. Carry on.

I've started plenty of bash Christian threads myself.

I'm sure you'll find lots of takers for discussing Jesus.

Well yes, the questions designed (not sure if you read them?) were meant for discussing Buddism from the view that it's not true. I'm getting different answers, some believe in Nirvana, some dont, some believe you can combine Buddhism with Christianity, some don't.
But unless there's a thread or a mod tells me I've done something wrong, what's wrong with it? If you don't wanna partake or answer, I won't be offended, nor am I offended with your answers. You shared, thank you. It's cool.

It's too bad you can't have a conversation without trying to convert Buddhists to Christianity.

Leave this topic alone. Go work on Muslims or Catholics. Don't discuss Buddhism from the point of view that it's not true. Unless, you're just interested in a Buddhist bash fest.

Here's an interesting fact, Marie. I don't even have the freedom to tell you how I feel about what you're doing on this thread because your friends feel I have no right to feel offended.

I apologize in advance and in retrospect for any effort on my part for making my point of view known on this thread. Clearly what a Buddhist thinks and feels about what you're up to is not of interest to anyone else. Nonetheless, you cannot harm the dharma nor can you dissuade me to let go of Buddhism.

Take care.

 

[emilynghiem]

Christians and Buddhists have nothing in common. Nothing, except common humanity.

I've started plenty of bash Christian threads myself.

Dear Sky:
1. I disagree with you. There are many priests who have studied Buddhism and found it compatible with Christianity. Much of the wisdom taught in Buddhism is equally contained in the Bible (in Proverbs especially).

Buddhists may not have anything in common with "false Christians who abuse laws"
because that is not real Christianity. True Christian practice is consistent with Buddhism, and these share the same common morals and ethical basis, just explaining them differently in terms of sin or suffering, but both agreeing what causes negative consequences.

There are just as many Buddhists as Christians who believe in hell.
As there are Buddhists and Christians who don't believe in hell or believe
that will be overcome and prevented.

2. Buddha taught to refrain from false speech,
not to repeat things we do not know to be true.
Not to speak things to be divisive or cause suffering.

If you are creating bashing threads, and if you say things you do not know to be certain, then you are not following Buddha's wisdom on the "right speech."

I understand if you are healing of past grief, and this is how it is being expressed.
But that is your personal process, and not necessarily true of all Buddhism.

I think that is what people on here are objecting to.
You have acknowledged you are working on healing from past abuses,
and again I am sorry for the pain and suffering you endured that takes time to heal.

If you understand you are projecting some of this pain you feel onto others
then you can detach from it more and more and not cling to it as protection to feel safe.

I support you in your healing process and path,
and I am sorry for all the difficulties you have had to overcome.
I know you will be stronger for it, but that does not make it feel any better in the meantime.

Nobody has to bash anyone.
I cannot help if other people do,
but I certainly can help if "I" do.

So if you do not like when people bash, then of course
it is wiser to refrain from the same.

Best wish to you on your path Sky
I hope I can support you in that, but if I add to your pain I am sorry!
If you can please forgive me, that forgiveness is what heals all this bashing mentality.

So more forgiveness to you and less bashing and fear of bashing.
Perfect love casts out all fear.
You can call this perfect compassion or perfect charity
but it creates the same loving environment where nobody would bash anyone else!

Take care, Sky and I hope you feel more and more relief from
whatever upsets have plagued you in the past on these boards.
You truly deserve better than that, and I thank you for continuing to share on here.

Yours truly,
Emily

 

[Sky Dancer]

Emily--

If you want to mix it up with Christians, be my guest. I'm not going to. I'm done. I have nothing to say to Christians other than I hate them, and I am committed to working through my anger and hate.

Good luck.

Sky