Tea Party plot in Wisconsin?

[Charles_Main]

I didn't speculate on what you think, but what you write, as you did here. If you think differently, then you should learn how to put that down in type so others will clearly understand your intent.

Wait so every time I see something like this from one side or another. I have to clarify what I say by saying Both sides do it, and I will call out the other side when they do it too?

Do you do that?

You claim you did not speculate about what I thought.

What you did was say something to the effect that all of "us guys" ignore it when it is the right doing it.

Was I not suppose to take that as you saying I was one of those guys?

 

[code1211]

Translation: Old Trajan's got nothing, folks.

can you link to articles detailing those issues please, most especially articles containing the conclusions vis a vis those accusations?


This is the man who broke the story that the MSM wasn't covering. Follow the links contained within.....It's a good primer to a fascinating story that is well documented by more than just investigative reporter Palast.

How George W. Bush Stole The Presidential Election of 2000

Your recent Florida story has NOTHING of the sort for comparison.

what recent Fla. story?

and Mr. Bull?

Click the little arrows and backtrack the exchange. If you still don't get it, I'll explain it to you.

It is pretty likely that the voters of florida would have voted in large enough numbers to elect Gore in 2000 but were unable to decipher the butterfly ballot which was approved and distributed for use by Democrats.

It is unsettling to know that about 3000 people who are too stupid to figure out how to cast a vote could have selected a person to serve as the most powerful man in the world.

Even Pat Buchannon, for whom these voters cast their votes, felt it was more than a little unususal that he recieved that many votes from the most Liberal county on the planet. The irony is that the Democrat Party and/or democrat party members approved the ballot, approved and posted the instructions and in majority numbers manned the voting stations. The Democrat voters either did not read or did not understand the instructions, did not ask for help and voted for the wrong guy through miscomprehension and stupidity.

Given all of this, though, Buchannon, as a conservative Third Party candidate did siphon votes away from Bush.

This is not any kind of plot by "Neo Cons", it's Democrats once again shooting themselves in the foot.

Not unusual.

Also not unusual is Democrats doing this series of stupid things and then looking to blame someone else. This is why the Dems are not the "Party of Know".

 

[bigrebnc1775]

That's crap...No one can keep a registered voter from voting.

OMG you idiots denied this ever happen with acorn now you claim it happen with the trea party?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGbKHyGuHU]YouTube - "Security" patrols stationed at polling places in Philly[/ame]

 

[Douger]

Wussconsin ? That would be iced tea.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

If these allegations are true, it gets one wondering if similar actions are not being planned in other states:


State Republicans, Tea Party groups planning 'voter suppression' during fall elections, liberal group says


One Wisconsin Now, a liberal advocacy group in Madison, said Monday it uncovered a conspiracy by conservative parties in the state to suppress minority and college student turnout during the Nov. 2 general election.

The group says they have recordings of a leader of the Tea Party movement laying out plans to reduce the number of traditionally Democratic voters who can cast ballots on Nov. 2. Tea Party groups, the Republican Party of Wisconsin and Americans for Prosperity-Wisconsin are allegedly working together on a "voter caging" effort.

The non-partisan Brennan Center for Justice outlines the process of voter caging:

Voter caging is the practice of sending mail to addresses on the voter rolls, compiling a list of the mail that is returned undelivered, and using that list to purge or challenge voters registrations on the grounds that the voters on the list do not legally reside at their registered addresses. Supporters of voter caging defend the practice as a means of preventing votes cast by ineligible voters. Voter caging, however, is notoriously unreliable. If it is treated (unjustifiably) as the sole basis for determining that a voter is ineligible or does not live at the address at which he or she registered, it can lead to the unwarranted purge or challenge of eligible voters. …Moreover, the practice has often been targeted at minority voters, making the effects even more pernicious. [Brennan Center, “A Guide to Voter Caging,” 6/29/07]
One Wisconsin Now said Monday it obtained an audio recording it has verified as authentic from a June 16, 2010 meeting between the leaders of the state’s Tea Party movement, led by Tim Dake, head of the GrandSons of Liberty. Dake serves as a regular spokesperson for Wisconsin’s Tea Party organizations and is widely viewed as the movement’s Wisconsin leader. The full audio, available at One Wisconsin Now’s voter protection website, Save Wisconsin's Vote 2010, details the plans.

Racine Post: State Republicans, Tea Party groups planning 'voter suppression' during fall elections, liberal group says

One Wisconsin Now, a liberal advocacy group in Madison

PEOPLE WITH COMMON SENSE KNOW THE TACTICS OF LIES FROM THE LIBERALS. Thanks for playing you failed.

 

[SuMar]

Yes, I watch Fox News....and they bullhorned the allegations, emphasizing it with commentary by all the pundits on and affiliated with Fox, plus couching the story with every other negative ACORN story.

And you've just made my case, because they FALSELY reported that there was an attempt to register dead people....A LIE, as ACORN pointed out at the time that the temp employees who tried to log their canvas with the fake names were reported to the authorities....the fake names NEVER made it to the registration process by ACORN.

No, Clearly there was an attempt by some of their workers, and that is what they reported.

Not quite....FOX Noise was reporting that it was the official ACORN organization that was caught trying to register dead people with the state voter records....that was NOT the case, and ACORN had successfully exposed how Fox skews it's reporting to paint some in a negative light.

Now you can say what you want about FOX over covering it. Do you ever talk about how every Liberal network buried the story?

Well, first off you're wrong about Fox, as I pointed out above. Now you're repeating yet another lie that was accompanying the original one. What "liberal network" are you talking about, because FOX carried it's bogus story, and it was on the AP and other news services?

County rejects large number of invalid voter registrations


ACORN In The News Again For Workers Registering Dead Voters And Others​

 

[rdean]

That's crap...No one can keep a registered voter from voting.

A couple of New Black Panthers with a nightstick just might though.

You're talking about two guys at one location in a predominantly black area. Of course it's wrong. But southern whites have done worse in at least half the country.

After all, many conservatives refer to their party as the Conservative Confederate Party. I didn't just make up that name. 90% white and mostly Christian.

 

[Paulie]

That's crap...No one can keep a registered voter from voting.

And you would be wrong. Your name & address determine your ability to vote. If either is wrong, you don't get a vote. The best way to overcome this is having a PO Box as your address, so regardless of where you are in the state, you can vote. I have seen voter booths require ID, and/or an utility bill showing your address.

I've never been ID'd to vote.

I walk in, tell them my name, they find me in the rolls for my ward, and I go vote.

One time there was an error and I wasn't in the rolls because of an address change snafu, and I filled out a provisional.

It would be damn near impossible to walk out of a precinct being completely denied the right to case a vote.

 

[Trajan]

can you link to articles detailing those issues please, most especially articles containing the conclusions vis a vis those accusations?


This is the man who broke the story that the MSM wasn't covering. Follow the links contained within.....It's a good primer to a fascinating story that is well documented by more than just investigative reporter Palast.

How George W. Bush Stole The Presidential Election of 2000



what recent Fla. story?

and Mr. Bull?

Click the little arrows and backtrack the exchange. If you still don't get it, I'll explain it to you.

It is pretty likely that the voters of florida would have voted in large enough numbers to elect Gore in 2000 but were unable to decipher the butterfly ballot which was approved and distributed for use by Democrats.

It is unsettling to know that about 3000 people who are too stupid to figure out how to cast a vote could have selected a person to serve as the most powerful man in the world.

Even Pat Buchannon, for whom these voters cast their votes, felt it was more than a little unususal that he recieved that many votes from the most Liberal county on the planet. The irony is that the Democrat Party and/or democrat party members approved the ballot, approved and posted the instructions and in majority numbers manned the voting stations. The Democrat voters either did not read or did not understand the instructions, did not ask for help and voted for the wrong guy through miscomprehension and stupidity.

Given all of this, though, Buchannon, as a conservative Third Party candidate did siphon votes away from Bush.

This is not any kind of plot by "Neo Cons", it's Democrats once again shooting themselves in the foot.

Not unusual.

Also not unusual is Democrats doing this series of stupid things and then looking to blame someone else. This is why the Dems are not the "Party of Know".

thank you, I wanted to see it from the "taichi"liberal who posted the allegations, thats why I asked for articles via msm, not an author and reporter who is hawking a book and is very clearly partisan. Allegations are/were made by the bushel by both parties...BUT when it gets down to cat skinning time, its often found that there was no criminality involved, a lot of it is grasping at straws, much hyperbole and absent the back story as you kindly provided.


We were told of roadblocks and such set up in fla to keep blacks from voting, yet not a single person came forward and provided evidence of such that panned out....that and the Super Dome Katrina rape and murder room for instance, go down as media constructs beyond the pale.......yet some will if unchallenged, post this couched as fact.


he posted it and then gives me a greg palast link to go to, I liken that to using a blog or opinion site as a footnote for an academic paper .....in short he cast aspersions and didn't back them up.


Oh and I would not be so sure as to the fla. vote, the panhandle voters who are a majority rep. counties and military etc. heard that the state was called for gore as all of the major news networks and cnn and fox called the state not realizing that they are in central time zone so the polls were still open,( I could post a conspiracy theory on that too, but I don't have any PROOF, so I don't) , I am sure that cost bush many votes as well.

 

[code1211]

No, Clearly there was an attempt by some of their workers, and that is what they reported.

Not quite....FOX Noise was reporting that it was the official ACORN organization that was caught trying to register dead people with the state voter records....that was NOT the case, and ACORN had successfully exposed how Fox skews it's reporting to paint some in a negative light.

Now you can say what you want about FOX over covering it. Do you ever talk about how every Liberal network buried the story?

Well, first off you're wrong about Fox, as I pointed out above. Now you're repeating yet another lie that was accompanying the original one. What "liberal network" are you talking about, because FOX carried it's bogus story, and it was on the AP and other news services?

County rejects large number of invalid voter registrations


ACORN In The News Again For Workers Registering Dead Voters And Others​

Just because ACORN workers being paid by ACORN to do things that ACORN has instructed them to do in pursuit of meeting quotas that ACORN has set doesn't mean that ACORN has anything to do with what these workers did.

Does it?

 

[taichiliberal]

thats a link to a greg palast polemic, can I see something from the msm. wash post, wsj even the ny times etc...'articles'.


where in did you refer to mr.Bull?

what recent fla. story?

Ahhh, once again the neocon blinders are put on.....you can't deal with the FACTS and the links contained in the article, so you just dismiss out of hand the source.

Newflash for you....Palast's was the person who broke the story that was later picked up by the very news sources you mention.

The only person who's bullshitting here is you, my tragic friend.

are you on medication? seriously?

Translation: once confronted with his own ignorance on a subject he babbles on about, Trajan tragically tries to dodge the issue with a childish personal attack. How sad for him.

 

[taichiliberal]

If these allegations are true, it gets one wondering if similar actions are not being planned in other states:


State Republicans, Tea Party groups planning 'voter suppression' during fall elections, liberal group says


One Wisconsin Now, a liberal advocacy group in Madison, said Monday it uncovered a conspiracy by conservative parties in the state to suppress minority and college student turnout during the Nov. 2 general election.

The group says they have recordings of a leader of the Tea Party movement laying out plans to reduce the number of traditionally Democratic voters who can cast ballots on Nov. 2. Tea Party groups, the Republican Party of Wisconsin and Americans for Prosperity-Wisconsin are allegedly working together on a "voter caging" effort.

The non-partisan Brennan Center for Justice outlines the process of voter caging:

Voter caging is the practice of sending mail to addresses on the voter rolls, compiling a list of the mail that is returned undelivered, and using that list to purge or challenge voters registrations on the grounds that the voters on the list do not legally reside at their registered addresses. Supporters of voter caging defend the practice as a means of preventing votes cast by ineligible voters. Voter caging, however, is notoriously unreliable. If it is treated (unjustifiably) as the sole basis for determining that a voter is ineligible or does not live at the address at which he or she registered, it can lead to the unwarranted purge or challenge of eligible voters. …Moreover, the practice has often been targeted at minority voters, making the effects even more pernicious. [Brennan Center, “A Guide to Voter Caging,” 6/29/07]
One Wisconsin Now said Monday it obtained an audio recording it has verified as authentic from a June 16, 2010 meeting between the leaders of the state’s Tea Party movement, led by Tim Dake, head of the GrandSons of Liberty. Dake serves as a regular spokesperson for Wisconsin’s Tea Party organizations and is widely viewed as the movement’s Wisconsin leader. The full audio, available at One Wisconsin Now’s voter protection website, Save Wisconsin's Vote 2010, details the plans.

Racine Post: State Republicans, Tea Party groups planning 'voter suppression' during fall elections, liberal group says

Republicans planning voter suppression? What a surprise!

The fewer people that vote, the better it is for the Republicans.

Google "voter suppression Florida 2000 election."

Gop'ers and their neocon supporters/off shoots just turn a blind eye to that information. Denial about the 2000 election and subsequent Shrub years is a mainstay for them.

 

[DiveCon]

If these allegations are true, it gets one wondering if similar actions are not being planned in other states:


State Republicans, Tea Party groups planning 'voter suppression' during fall elections, liberal group says


One Wisconsin Now, a liberal advocacy group in Madison, said Monday it uncovered a conspiracy by conservative parties in the state to suppress minority and college student turnout during the Nov. 2 general election.

The group says they have recordings of a leader of the Tea Party movement laying out plans to reduce the number of traditionally Democratic voters who can cast ballots on Nov. 2. Tea Party groups, the Republican Party of Wisconsin and Americans for Prosperity-Wisconsin are allegedly working together on a "voter caging" effort.

The non-partisan Brennan Center for Justice outlines the process of voter caging:

Voter caging is the practice of sending mail to addresses on the voter rolls, compiling a list of the mail that is returned undelivered, and using that list to purge or challenge voters registrations on the grounds that the voters on the list do not legally reside at their registered addresses. Supporters of voter caging defend the practice as a means of preventing votes cast by ineligible voters. Voter caging, however, is notoriously unreliable. If it is treated (unjustifiably) as the sole basis for determining that a voter is ineligible or does not live at the address at which he or she registered, it can lead to the unwarranted purge or challenge of eligible voters. …Moreover, the practice has often been targeted at minority voters, making the effects even more pernicious. [Brennan Center, “A Guide to Voter Caging,” 6/29/07]
One Wisconsin Now said Monday it obtained an audio recording it has verified as authentic from a June 16, 2010 meeting between the leaders of the state’s Tea Party movement, led by Tim Dake, head of the GrandSons of Liberty. Dake serves as a regular spokesperson for Wisconsin’s Tea Party organizations and is widely viewed as the movement’s Wisconsin leader. The full audio, available at One Wisconsin Now’s voter protection website, Save Wisconsin's Vote 2010, details the plans.

Racine Post: State Republicans, Tea Party groups planning 'voter suppression' during fall elections, liberal group says

Republicans planning voter suppression? What a surprise!

The fewer people that vote, the better it is for the Republicans.

Google "voter suppression Florida 2000 election."

Gop'ers and their neocon supporters/off shoots just turn a blind eye to that information. Denial about the 2000 election and subsequent Shrub years is a mainstay for them.

find a single case where it was ACTUALLY proven and not just claims made without a shred of actual proof

 

[taichiliberal]

No, Clearly there was an attempt by some of their workers, and that is what they reported.

Not quite....FOX Noise was reporting that it was the official ACORN organization that was caught trying to register dead people with the state voter records....that was NOT the case, and ACORN had successfully exposed how Fox skews it's reporting to paint some in a negative light.

Now you can say what you want about FOX over covering it. Do you ever talk about how every Liberal network buried the story?

Well, first off you're wrong about Fox, as I pointed out above. Now you're repeating yet another lie that was accompanying the original one. What "liberal network" are you talking about, because FOX carried it's bogus story, and it was on the AP and other news services?

Wrong again. Nobody knew the full truth when they reported it. They reported that it could have been Acorn doing it, or people working for them acting alone.

You are the one being dishonest bud.

Either your ignorant of, willfully ignorant of, or just playing lying about what had transpired. This guy did an excellent job of recording the chronology of the events as they were released to the press. Fox News (in conjunction with the GOP) was either guilty of REALLY shoddy bad reporting or "selective" reporting in regards to all the facts.....neither bodes well for them.

The BRAD BLOG : SPECIAL COVERAGE: The GOP's ACORN 'Voter Fraud' Hoax

Bottom line: Gop candidates and politicians accused ACORN of false registrations, this was bullhorned by Fox News and it's punditry, and echoed by CNN, ABC, etc. What they were all guilty of is shoddy and/or biased reporting. To date, all allegations against ACORN of voter registration fraud were disproven. Fox News, however, was at the forefront with repeating the accusations DESPITE concurrent proof that the allegations were false. Here's just one example:

Fox News continues its ACORN-mania | Media Matters for America

 

[Charles_Main]

Well, first off you're wrong about Fox, as I pointed out above. Now you're repeating yet another lie that was accompanying the original one. What "liberal network" are you talking about, because FOX carried it's bogus story, and it was on the AP and other news services?

Wrong again. Nobody knew the full truth when they reported it. They reported that it could have been Acorn doing it, or people working for them acting alone.

You are the one being dishonest bud.

Either your ignorant of, willfully ignorant of, or just playing lying about what had transpired. This guy did an excellent job of recording the chronology of the events as they were released to the press. Fox News (in conjunction with the GOP) was either guilty of REALLY shoddy bad reporting or "selective" reporting in regards to all the facts.....neither bodes well for them.

The BRAD BLOG : SPECIAL COVERAGE: The GOP's ACORN 'Voter Fraud' Hoax

Bottom line: Gop candidates and politicians accused ACORN of false registrations, this was bullhorned by Fox News and it's punditry, and echoed by CNN, ABC, etc. What they were all guilty of is shoddy and/or biased reporting. To date, all allegations against ACORN of voter registration fraud were disproven. Fox News, however, was at the forefront with repeating the accusations DESPITE concurrent proof that the allegations were false. Here's just one example:

Fox News continues its ACORN-mania | Media Matters for America

Say what you want. The Coverage I watched was always qualified with words like. Alleged, and Maybe, and if.

But to each his own.

 

[DiveCon]

Well, first off you're wrong about Fox, as I pointed out above. Now you're repeating yet another lie that was accompanying the original one. What "liberal network" are you talking about, because FOX carried it's bogus story, and it was on the AP and other news services?

Wrong again. Nobody knew the full truth when they reported it. They reported that it could have been Acorn doing it, or people working for them acting alone.

You are the one being dishonest bud.

Either your ignorant of, willfully ignorant of, or just playing lying about what had transpired. This guy did an excellent job of recording the chronology of the events as they were released to the press. Fox News (in conjunction with the GOP) was either guilty of REALLY shoddy bad reporting or "selective" reporting in regards to all the facts.....neither bodes well for them.

The BRAD BLOG : SPECIAL COVERAGE: The GOP's ACORN 'Voter Fraud' Hoax

Bottom line: Gop candidates and politicians accused ACORN of false registrations, this was bullhorned by Fox News and it's punditry, and echoed by CNN, ABC, etc. What they were all guilty of is shoddy and/or biased reporting. To date, all allegations against ACORN of voter registration fraud were disproven. Fox News, however, was at the forefront with repeating the accusations DESPITE concurrent proof that the allegations were false. Here's just one example:

Fox News continues its ACORN-mania | Media Matters for America

a BLOG and mediamatters??????


you are one fucking STUPID sucker

 

[taichiliberal]

What? Fox has not even been around that long. CNN was the Big boy on the block for Decades. Fox is one network, the only one that slants right.

CNN is "liberal"? By whose and what determination? And FYI, Fox News was launched in 1996, while ABC radio started it's conservative talk radio trend in 1990, while the NY Post was bought by Murdoch in 1976, Clear Channel has been around since 1972, which carries the neocon punditry.



Why do you assume you know what I think? You did not just call me out, you added that I never call Right wing sites when they do the same thing. Which is assuming you know what I do and think. The truth is I call it when I see it on both sides.

I didn't speculate on what you think, but what you write, as you did here. If you think differently, then you should learn how to put that down in type so others will clearly understand your intent.
My comment was not meant to totally dismiss the story. It simply was pointing out that you should take with a gain of salt, what an admitted liberal group, says about an admitted conservative group.

You know kinda like how you guys all dismiss anything FOX or the WSJ says about liberals?

Obviously, you miss the question mark in my subject title, as well as the post were I STATE that IF the allegations pan out to be true, it will be interesting if the MSM will cover it properly.

You are right I did miss that. Good to hear.

All I want is fair coverage on both sides. What we have now is 1 Network (fox) feeding us their biased news, and The several others feeding us their version.

Sucks don't it.


Which is why the Fairness Doctrine should be brought back....but just the mere mention of it brings a banshee wail from the Conservative media, punditry and supporters....which is perplexing being that they are ones constantly complaining of a liberal bias in the MSM. So why fight against a law that would curtail to some extent that bias? Strange, is it not?

I can't remember on what show I heard this, or who said it. But they were talking about FOX and the other networks, and the guy claimed that the other networks were "sort of forced to move to the left to combat fox"

Actually, there has been "left" leaning radio stations around for decades......WBAI in NY is one of them. Pacifica Broadcasting has been a progressive mainstay....so much so that Newt Gingrich once tried to use it in a McCarthyist measurement during Congressional reviews on the FCC. Air America was an attempt, but they didn't have their game plan locked down tight enough to exist more than 5 years. You have "progressive" talk show hosts that have been around for years, heard on local stations. Other than that, I don't know of any major stations, TV or radio that has "moved to the left" solely because of Fox.

this brings to light 2 things. First off the other networks were skewed left long before FOX went on the air. One could agrue that the Constant long standing Liberal slant of the rest of the media actually gave rise to FOX and talk Radio. IMO one would be right if they did.

The lie that the media has long been skewed to the left has been used to justify the painfully biased and dishonest "reporting" by Fox News, and the commentary rants by the plethora of neocon pundits associated with Fox, ABC Talk Radio and Clear Channel. Noam Chomsky has for years disproven the myth of "liberal bias" in the media.
Second, If they really wanted to get the truth out, they would not have to "move to the left" to combat FOX. All they would need to do is report the god damn truth.

A naive notion, given that ownership dictates what is being covered and how it's being covered. You should check out Chomsky's "Manufactured Consent", a chilling detailing of just how non-objective our national news coverage is. Currently, the major news media outlets HAVE NO FOREIGN OFFICE BUREAU! And case in point, New York threw out it's laws regarding monopoly of media by allowing Murdoch to own a newspaper and TV/radio stations...and Murdoch's rabid conservatism is well known.

But given Reagan's removal of the Fairness Doctrine and Clintons' Telecommunication Act, what we now have are essentially armed camps. McClatchy seems to be one of the few national holds outs regarding good old fashioned objective reporting. There are others, but they are local and relatively small.

 

[taichiliberal]

I didn't speculate on what you think, but what you write, as you did here. If you think differently, then you should learn how to put that down in type so others will clearly understand your intent.

Wait so every time I see something like this from one side or another. I have to clarify what I say by saying Both sides do it, and I will call out the other side when they do it too?


No.....when you consistently criticize ONE aspect of a discussion that is in sync with the recognized mindset and statements of certan political/social groups, the reader has no choice but to accept your position as presented. To suddenly claim otherwise without prior evidence to that effect is confusing at best, and suspiciously disingenuous at least.

Do you do that?

Nope.

You claim you did not speculate about what I thought.

I STATED that I responded to what YOU wrote....can't be any clearer than that, as the chronology of the posts will prove me out on this.

What you did was say something to the effect that all of "us guys" ignore it when it is the right doing it.

Wrong again....why don't you quote EXACTLY what I said and place it in the proper context and chronology of the discussion?

Was I not suppose to take that as you saying I was one of those guys?

See above responses.

 

[taichiliberal]

That's crap...No one can keep a registered voter from voting.

OMG you idiots denied this ever happen with acorn now you claim it happen with the trea party?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGbKHyGuHU]YouTube - "Security" patrols stationed at polling places in Philly[/ame]

OMG, the morons in PHILLY were NOT associated with the NAACP, the Democratic Party or anyone else you can name. And after a review, the Dept. of Justice did fine ONE of these jokers guilty of carrying a weapon outside a voting facility, thus violating the Voting Rights Act

Fox whopper: DOJ said Voting Rights Act wasn't violated in New Black Panthers case | Media Matters for America


So once again, we see the insipid stubborness of FOX News supporters as they repeat long disproved lies and distortions.

And as I stated, IF the allegations in Wisconsin prove to be true, will the Main Stream Media give it decent coverage?

 

[Trajan]

Ahhh, once again the neocon blinders are put on.....you can't deal with the FACTS and the links contained in the article, so you just dismiss out of hand the source.

Newflash for you....Palast's was the person who broke the story that was later picked up by the very news sources you mention.

The only person who's bullshitting here is you, my tragic friend.

are you on medication? seriously?

Translation: once confronted with his own ignorance on a subject he babbles on about, Trajan tragically tries to dodge the issue with a childish personal attack. How sad for him.

translation: I got caught with my pants down talking smack, time to do what I do best, obfuscate via another Toruettes driven outburst.