Tax Cuts Steal Democracy

[The Derp]

We already had fine medical care..

If you're rich, sure. If you're not, you're screwed. You say we have "fine medical care", yet we trail nearly every single First World, Single Payer nation in nearly every single health metric there is, including cost.

 

[The Derp]

Taxes reduce profits.

Right, but they don't eliminate profits. What you all have failed to articulate is how increased profits translate to increased demand, unless you apply trickle-down theory. So is that what you're doing?

Keep taxes high, and you just increase motivation to hide profits and shield them from taxation. It's as if pro-taxers never account for human behavior.

The average effective corporate tax rate in this country is about 12.4%. So it's already low. By contrast, the average effective individual tax rate is about 17.4%. So if corporations are people, shouldn't they pay taxes like people?

 

[Wyatt earp]

If no one has any money to spend, now, why do you feel Obama did an awesome job?

I never said he did or didn't. What I've said is that Conservatives undermined economic recovery for political purposes. The states that embraced Obama did better than those who didn't. And we can see that play out in Kansas right now.

BTW - Q1 GDP growth for 2017 was just 0.7%. So demand isn't there, despite Trump being in office and the Conservatives controlling DC.

Flint was caused by bottled water?
If you get a chance, please list all your current medications.
I fear you have a drug interaction that is cutting your IQ in half. And you had none to spare to begin with.

Conservatives sought to push people to the private sector by deliberately undermining public works. They're now trying to give Nestle water in Michigan that would otherwise go to citizens.

It's fun playing with statics on the net..


Ok Kansas was the extreme.


But a million times who would want to move there?

With Flint we have a huge 100 year old water supply problem in this country..


But no one wants to address it.


.

 

[hadit]

Taxes reduce profits.

Right, but they don't eliminate profits. What you all have failed to articulate is how increased profits translate to increased demand, unless you apply trickle-down theory. So is that what you're doing?

Keep taxes high, and you just increase motivation to hide profits and shield them from taxation. It's as if pro-taxers never account for human behavior.

The average effective corporate tax rate in this country is about 12.4%. So it's already low. By contrast, the average effective individual tax rate is about 17.4%. So if corporations are people, shouldn't they pay taxes like people?

Yup. We should cut individual taxes to 12%. That would be cool.

 

[Wyatt earp]

We already had fine medical care..

If you're rich, sure. If you're not, you're screwed. You say we have "fine medical care", yet we trail nearly every single First World, Single Payer nation in nearly every single health metric there is, including cost.

Bwahah and ha



Bullshit the metrics is funny math


Go to the hospital in Great Britain on a weekend, better bring along a casket.



.

 

[The Derp]

Ok Kansas was the extreme..

You can look at Louisiana, Arizona and Wisconsin and see the same thing. BTW - McConnell said what Brownback did in Kansas is what he "wants to do for the whole country". So it's not an extreme example. It's the standard of Conservative economics. First, Brownback promised the tax cuts would pay for themselves. Then he promised they would spur growth. Then he promised they'd be "a shot of adrenaline". Then he said they need time to work. Now, he is in denial even as his own party mutinied against him and he vetoed their abolishing of the tax cut that has done nothing for Kansas other than erase its surplus, its highway fund, close schools early, downgrade credit twice, and have massive deficits that are closed by raiding the welfare block grant. Which would make Kansas a welfare state.

So Kansas is not extreme. Kansas is the Conservative standard. You all sunk all your faith and hopes into that state and the results were the opposite of what was promised. Since the Brownback tax cuts, Kansas has lagged the nation's GDP growth, employment growth, business creation, and uninsured rates. And you want to do that nationally? If it didn't work in Kansas, why would it work anywhere?

 

[The Derp]

Yup. We should cut individual taxes to 12%. That would be cool.

But you said taxes are too high. So you're contradicting yourself all over the place.

You may as well just put me on ignore now since we know that's where you're headed.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Your end game derp is you want socialism


You don't even know what it was

 

[The Derp]

Bullshit the metrics is funny mathGo to the hospital in Great Britain on a weekend, better bring along a casket..

Wait times in the Uk are less than they are here.

In 2013, the healthcare foundation The Commonwealth Fund examined waiting times across 11 countries, including the US. It reported that in the US a quarter of adults surveyed (26%) said they waited six or more days for primary care appointments “when sick or needing care”. The figure for the UK was just 16%.
​

So you were saying????

 

[The Derp]

Your end game derp is you want socialism You don't even know what it was

I want democratic socialism. Which maintains a free market, though it is heavily regulated because business is amoral and cares not for the citizenry. They have democratic socialism in nearly all Western nations, yet miraculously, rich people still exist there! I know, I'm shocked too!

I am also Libertarian in the true sense of the word when it comes to natural resources, in that I think they should all be owned by the public and not sold for private profit. That unappropriated natural resources (water, oil, natural gas, coal, solar, wind) belong to everyone in some egalitarian manner. Whether that's public share of profits or something else, I don't care.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Ok Kansas was the extreme..

You can look at Louisiana, Arizona and Wisconsin and see the same thing. BTW - McConnell said what Brownback did in Kansas is what he "wants to do for the whole country". So it's not an extreme example. It's the standard of Conservative economics. First, Brownback promised the tax cuts would pay for themselves. Then he promised they would spur growth. Then he promised they'd be "a shot of adrenaline". Then he said they need time to work. Now, he is in denial even as his own party mutinied against him and he vetoed their abolishing of the tax cut that has done nothing for Kansas other than erase its surplus, its highway fund, close schools early, downgrade credit twice, and have massive deficits that are closed by raiding the welfare block grant. Which would make Kansas a welfare state.

So Kansas is not extreme. Kansas is the Conservative standard. You all sunk all your faith and hopes into that state and the results were the opposite of what was promised. Since the Brownback tax cuts, Kansas has lagged the nation's GDP growth, employment growth, business creation, and uninsured rates. And you want to do that nationally? If it didn't work in Kansas, why would it work anywhere?

I was born in Illinois and moved to South Carolina ..




Kansas was the Extreme.. the governor went nuts.. yet they still vote for repulicans

And for another time New York State is trying to do another version of it..


If they bring in the jobs it would be a awesome state to live in around finger lakes..

.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Bullshit the metrics is funny mathGo to the hospital in Great Britain on a weekend, better bring along a casket..

Wait times in the Uk are less than they are here.

In 2013, the healthcare foundation The Commonwealth Fund examined waiting times across 11 countries, including the US. It reported that in the US a quarter of adults surveyed (26%) said they waited six or more days for primary care appointments “when sick or needing care”. The figure for the UK was just 16%.
​

So you were saying????

More loaded questions?


Your polls sucks as we seen Hillary lose..


I am sure if you polled NK citizens they would say " we have a 3 second waiting time for a triple by pass surgery, thanks to lil Kim!"

.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Your end game derp is you want socialism You don't even know what it was

I want democratic socialism. Which maintains a free market, though it is heavily regulated because business is amoral and cares not for the citizenry. They have democratic socialism in nearly all Western nations, yet miraculously, rich people still exist there! I know, I'm shocked too!

I am also Libertarian in the true sense of the word when it comes to natural resources, in that I think they should all be owned by the public and not sold for private profit. That unappropriated natural resources (water, oil, natural gas, coal, solar, wind) belong to everyone in some egalitarian manner. Whether that's public share of profits or something else, I don't care.

business is amoral and cares not for the citizenry.


That statement proves to me you don't have any skills or works



I am not a Union worker, I do what ever I want and get great money for doing nothing.. except making sure my machines are running..

Hell todays my birthday and my boss told me to take a four day weekend..

Paid...


.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I remember back even in my 20s my boss/owner of the company would say to me take some time off ... enjoy yourself ...

Way back in 1985..



They are human beings after all.



Not the enemy in America..

 

[danielpalos]

Tax Cuts do a lot of things; increase deficits, explode debts, hurt wage growth...but in concert with unlimited campaign contributions, they actually steal our democracy. The average politician spends about 80% of their time raising money. And from whom are they generally raising the most money? From wealthy donors. And what benefits wealthy donors? Tax cuts. Here are some handy charts showing the extent of the theft of wealth and democracy by the 1% and their Conservative and Neo-Liberal enablers. Since the Reagan tax cuts, working people’s share of the benefits from increased productivity took a sudden turn down:

This resulted in intense concentration of wealth at the top:

And forced working people to spend down savings to get by:

Which forced working people to go into debt: (total household debt as percentage of GDP)

None of which has helped economic growth much: (12-quarter rolling average nominal GDP growth.):

So the conclusion? Trump and the Conservatives' "tax reform" is just more of the same we've heard from them since 1980, and is just a thinly veiled attempt to redistribute wealth from the middle and bottom to the top.

Tax Cuts do a lot of things; increase deficits, explode debts, hurt wage growth

How do tax cuts hurt wage growth?

Financing more debt means less disposable income.

 

[danielpalos]

Tax Cuts do a lot of things; increase deficits, explode debts, hurt wage growth...but in concert with unlimited campaign contributions, they actually steal our democracy. The average politician spends about 80% of their time raising money. And from whom are they generally raising the most money? From wealthy donors. And what benefits wealthy donors? Tax cuts. Here are some handy charts showing the extent of the theft of wealth and democracy by the 1% and their Conservative and Neo-Liberal enablers. Since the Reagan tax cuts, working people’s share of the benefits from increased productivity took a sudden turn down:

This resulted in intense concentration of wealth at the top:

And forced working people to spend down savings to get by:

Which forced working people to go into debt: (total household debt as percentage of GDP)

None of which has helped economic growth much: (12-quarter rolling average nominal GDP growth.):

So the conclusion? Trump and the Conservatives' "tax reform" is just more of the same we've heard from them since 1980, and is just a thinly veiled attempt to redistribute wealth from the middle and bottom to the top.

I noticed you failed to talk about the exponential increase of the federal spending budgets, state spending budgets, and city spending budgets, which are the prime reason why the government always has to increase its tax of citizens. If you cut the budgets of all these bloated agencies, by 1/2 not only would you be able to put more money in each persons hands, but also balance the budgets of each entity. The end of poverty would be the government saying "POVERTY HAS ENDED", and at the point of the gun, make it so, even though, everyone would be equally poor and equally miserable.

Cloward–Piven strategy
The Cloward–Piven strategy is a political strategy outlined in 1966 by American sociologists and political activists Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven that called for overloading the U.S. public welfare system in order to precipitate a crisis that would lead to a replacement of the welfare system with a national system of "a guaranteed annual income and thus an end to poverty".
Cloward–Piven strategy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hooverville didn't work any better.

 

[danielpalos]

I noticed you failed to talk about the exponential increase of the federal spending budgets, state spending budgets, and city spending budgets, which are the prime reason why the government always has to increase its tax of citizens.

.

And that's not necessarily a bad thing if what is in those budgets benefits taxpayers; things like schools, infrastructure, health care, scientific research, etc. benefit society because they're budget items that are used by taxpayers here and provide the infrastructure for businesses to grow and reach their consumers. When you have close to 1/5 of all spending on health care, that's a major problem. That's not because of government, that's because of profits. When you spend $600B a year on defense, the products produced with that money do not benefit this country and aren't even used here. The bombs are all used overseas. So when they explode, they don't benefit Americans or taxpayers. That spending is done overseas. And in most cases, the production of those weapons of war aren't even requested by the DoD, but the reps in whose districts those plants are located secure money for no other reason than to keep people employed...which would make our military the largest welfare program there is. One that is almost completely without budgetary oversight. So that's where most of the "waste" in government spending goes. I live in Atlanta. We just had a section of one of the most heavily-trafficked highways in the entire country collapse. We need every single federal dollar we can get in order to maintain the rest of the highway, so that doesn't happen again. Most federal programs are operationally stretched to their limits already. But that was by design; it's much easier to argue for the elimination of a government program if you reduce the operational funds needed to sustain it. That's the Conservative motive behind tax cuts; manufacture budget deficits that are used as an excuse to cut social spending, forcing operational cuts to the programs that undermine their effectiveness, then that diminished effectiveness is used as an excuse to sell the function off to private enterprise who profit at our expense while not providing any tangible improvement to the function itself. For the best (worst) examples of that, just look at private prisons and charter schools.

The Cloward–Piven strategy is a political strategy outlined in 1966 by American sociologists and political activists Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven that called for overloading the U.S. public welfare system in order to precipitate a crisis that would lead to a replacement of the welfare system with a national system of "a guaranteed annual income and thus an end to poverty".

A universal basic income is not a bad idea, actually, and would be economically beneficial to a capitalist system. It would generate automatic demand and consumer spending. Finland is experimenting with a universal basic income right now. The best way to reduce poverty in our economic system is to increase wages. If you're not going to do that, and you're not going to put in price controls, then you have to manufacture demand somehow. Our economy cannot sustain itself on spending by the top.01%. Surely you agree.

A universal basic income is not a bad idea, actually, and would be economically beneficial to a capitalist system

Did you know that, that was tried in the USSR(if you don't know what that was, it was the United Soviet SOCIALIST Republic) where doctors would spend 12 years of their lives learning how to save people, and got paid the same as a bread maker who spent 2 months learning how to make bread. (Why the fuck am I teaching you this, when you should of learned this is PRIVATE SCHOOL). So there are fewer doctors because of their studies and time to become able to save people, while there are many bread makers, which means there isn't a demand for them. Such a buffoon you are.

When you spend $600B a year on defense.

Without a defense there IS NO country, and that means there is NO welfare system. But you don't understand this since you are a brainwashed, goose stepping, low information, mind numbed, useful idiot of the left.. Now watch closely here with the next link.

Cost war on poverty
The War on Poverty has cost $22 trillion -- three times more than what the government has spent on all wars in American history. Federal and state governments spend $1 trillion in taxpayer dollars on America's 80 means-tested welfare programs annually.
The War on Poverty Has Cost $22 Trillion - NCPA
ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?article_id=25288

Now ignore the facts once again.

View attachment 121458

Not if we include the cost of our war on crime, drugs, and terror, under defense spending.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

And each time you've explained it, you've failed to articulate how it generates increase revenues and demand.

say you invent a cure for cancer....and you sell that cure......that generates increased revenue and demand for your cancer cure and new jobs. Shall I explain your ABC'c for 7th time???

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

With wages stagnant and revenues flatlining, there is no conceivable reason for a business to expand.

obviously many businesses are growing tremendously. Facebook, for example, just said 63% revenue gain versus year ago. Can I ask how old you are?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

You can supply all the new inventions you want, if wages are not increasing that means there's no consumer demand, hence no one is buying this great new thing you innovated.

so if you invent an affordable cancer cure nobody will buy it, instead they will keep buying all the the same things they have been buying, and die? Do you ever think before you post??