Talk to an Iraqi

[Si modo]

Listening to these dumbass, fat white guys with that stupid fucking southern accent talk about how "free" Iraq is now is just sickening. Can you believe that guy calling Iraqi's "children" inferring that WE are their "parents". The right wing in this country is delusional, uneducated, retarded lemmings. Shame on them. I'm embarrassed they call themselves "American". I wish they would secede.

And, then, the USA would be a one-party state! How cool for you and other Obama ball-suckers!

The Democratic Party is made up of blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, gays, straights, feminists, conservatives, liberals, young, old, educated, uneducated, Muslim, Christian, Hindu.

....

So what part "one party" has you so confounded? You still want a one-party state, just like the good little fascist that you apparently are.

.... Republicans are mostly dumb ass like you.

After your trademark non-rebuttal rebuttal (no point to it whatsoever), I think it's cute that you say this.

 

[Kalam]

The puppet show script just don't play.

The 2005 government did not play to the US script, nor has the elected governments since.

A government formed under the supervision of an occupying force is rarely, if ever, a result of true self-determination. If you believe that declaring Islam the official religion of the puppet regime or orchestrating elections means that they aren't toeing the coalition-approved line, then I've got a bridge you may be interested in purchasing.

Still, the Islamic world does have a habit of blaming their own failures on external forces.

Things were going rather swimmingly until the Mongols tore through the region, were they not? Seven solid centuries of foreign intervention and occupation have had effects that can't be ignored. Our defeatism and acceptance of diluted mockeries of Islamic governance are problematic as well, however, so I agree that we're also to blame.

This tends to happen when every aspect of your life is governed by a Big Imaginary Guy in the sky and not on your own actions.

God helps him who helps Him. The fact that some of us try to act in accordance with our religious beliefs doesn't mean that our actions are any less our own.

 

[rdean]

No, the Republicans did not make it up, Bill Clinton signed the Iraqi Liberation Act, he perceived it as a threat, attacked them too in Desert Fox.

Indeed the threat was confirmed by Saddam himself at his own trial when he called Kuwaitis dogs and re-affirmed he would have invaded again given the chance. You remember Kuwait, the US ally? The reason we went to war in the first place?

Ask any Kurd of Saddam was a "false" threat.

Saddam had an 8 year war against Iran. Then in 1990, Saddam made a calculated plan to attack Kuwait, a very tiny oil rich country that had, at one time been part of Iraq for a couple of thousand years. For that, Saddam got his butt kicked and what was left of his military was totally destroyed. Just the fact that his military was destroyed so easily PROVES that he wasn't a threat to us.

 

[Si modo]

The puppet show script just don't play.

The 2005 government did not play to the US script, nor has the elected governments since.

A government formed under the supervision of an occupying force is rarely, if ever, a result of true self-determination. If you believe that declaring Islam the official religion of the puppet regime or orchestrating elections means that they aren't toeing the coalition-approved line, then I've got a bridge you may be interested in purchasing.
....

Kalam typed it with no supporting information at all, so it MUST be true.

Such quality debate and critical thought.

 

[rdean]

And, then, the USA would be a one-party state! How cool for you and other Obama ball-suckers!

The Democratic Party is made up of blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, gays, straights, feminists, conservatives, liberals, young, old, educated, uneducated, Muslim, Christian, Hindu.

....

So what part "one party" has you so confounded? You still want a one-party state, just like the good little fascist that you apparently are.

.... Republicans are mostly dumb ass like you.

After your trademark non-rebuttal rebuttal (no point to it whatsoever), I think it's cute that you say this.

Dipshit. The Democratic Party is a "true coalition". Not a single party, made up of 90% of the same race and religion. The coalition may work together under "one banner", but it's hardly one party. That's the problem with Republicans. They march in lockstep. Because they are Fascists, they think everyone is.

 

[JW Frogen]

To my mind it would have been better for everyone if the US had set up a puppet government, one that took direct and all orders for the US for a time, like the US did in Germany and Japan post WW2.

If you are going to re-order a society, do it.

But Bush did not do that, he removed Saddam and then said good luck, here is your freedom, use it.

And the Iraqis created their own hell, perhaps understandable after years of tyranny; they might not have known any other way. (Except the Kurds that is.)

The puppet thing is a nice slogan but it has nothing to do with reality, even the provisional government under Allawi mostly ran their own show.

You know the guy who just won an election again?

Still, I am sure long after the last US military person is gone there will be those blaming every Islamic failure on the US, for centuries.

Hell, you are still blaming the Mongols Kalim!

It is an Islamic affliction.

 

[Si modo]

The Democratic Party is made up of blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, gays, straights, feminists, conservatives, liberals, young, old, educated, uneducated, Muslim, Christian, Hindu.

....

So what part "one party" has you so confounded? You still want a one-party state, just like the good little fascist that you apparently are.

.... Republicans are mostly dumb ass like you.

After your trademark non-rebuttal rebuttal (no point to it whatsoever), I think it's cute that you say this.

Dipshit. The Democratic Party is a "true coalition". Not a single party, made up of 90% of the same race and religion. The coalition may work together under "one banner", but it's hardly one party. That's the problem with Republicans. They march in lockstep. Because they are Fascists, they think everyone is.

[Emphasis added] The Democratic Party isn't a party.

Oh, and by the way, races and religions are not political parties.

 

[Kalam]

Kalam typed it with no supporting information at all, so it MUST be true.

Such quality debate and critical thought.

The current Iraqi constitution was drafted by a committee appointed by the transitional government, which operated according to rules set by the Coalition Provisional Authority. Which part of this do you dispute?

 

[Tom Clancy]

And don't bother asking the Iraqi's what they want, fool.

The hell?

Oh yeahh.. the infamous picture..

I can play that game too

Dumb fuck. Iraqi adults can't write signs. Do you think the kids wrote those signs? Seriously? They even spelled everything right?

You're wrong, you can't play that game unless "losing" is your strategy.

And your gonna back that up how? Just delusion right?

rdean, crawl back into your hole.. People like you recite the Media and their bullshit.. You an intern for MSNBC?

 

[Si modo]

Kalam typed it with no supporting information at all, so it MUST be true.

Such quality debate and critical thought.

The current Iraqi constitution was drafted by a committee appointed by the transitional government, which operated according to rules set by the Coalition Provisional Authority. Which part of this do you dispute?

Strawman much?

 

[Kalam]

To my mind it would have been better for everyone if the US had set up a puppet government, one that took direct and all orders for the US for a time, like the US did in Germany and Japan post WW2.

If you are going to re-order a society, do it.

Alternatively, the West could stop meddling in the affairs of the Islamic world.

But Bush did not do that, he removed Saddam and then said good luck, here is your freedom, use it.

If Bush had simply ordered the assassination of Saddam Hussein and moved on without invading or occupying Iraq, you'd be correct. Unfortunately, your assessment of the situation doesn't really account for the 7-year occupation or the indirect installation of the current Iraqi puppet government by occupying coalition forces.

The puppet thing is a nice slogan but it has nothing to do with reality, even the provisional government under Allawi mostly ran their own show.

You know the guy who just won an election again?

A secularist "won" positions of political power in a puppet regime on more than one occasion? Well, color me surprised!

Still, I am sure long after the last US military person is gone there will be those blaming every Islamic failure on the US, for centuries.

Hell, you are still blaming the Mongols Kalim!

I'm doing nothing more than acknowledging history. Ignoring the consequences of centuries of foreign hegemony is silly.

 

[Kalam]

Kalam typed it with no supporting information at all, so it MUST be true.

Such quality debate and critical thought.

The current Iraqi constitution was drafted by a committee appointed by the transitional government, which operated according to rules set by the Coalition Provisional Authority. Which part of this do you dispute?

Strawman much?

I've outlined the reasons why I don't consider the current Iraqi regime a product of self-determination. The foundations were laid by the occupiers.

 

[rdean]

To my mind it would have been better for everyone if the US had set up a puppet government, one that took direct and all orders for the US for a time, like the US did in Germany and Japan post WW2.

If you are going to re-order a society, do it.

But Bush did not do that, he removed Saddam and then said good luck, here is your freedom, use it.

And the Iraqis created their own hell, perhaps understandable after years of tyranny; they might not have known any other way. (Except the Kurds that is.)

The puppet thing is a nice slogan but it has nothing to do with reality, even the provisional government under Allawi mostly ran their own show.

You know the guy who just won an election again?

Still, I am sure long after the last US military person is gone there will be those blaming every Islamic failure on the US, for centuries.

Hell, you are still blaming the Mongols Kalim!

It is an Islamic affliction.

Your suggestion is probably the most logical suggestion, but I suspect it wouldn't have worked anyway. For one, this country is somewhere between 70 and 90% Christian (don't remember the exact percentage). Bush really screwed up with he used words like "Crusades" and didn't know the difference between Sunni and Shiite.

The combination of this nation being perceived as Christian and the word "Crusades" put an end to it.

 

[Si modo]

The current Iraqi constitution was drafted by a committee appointed by the transitional government, which operated according to rules set by the Coalition Provisional Authority. Which part of this do you dispute?

Strawman much?

I've outlined the reasons why I don't consider the current Iraqi regime a product of self-determination. The foundations were laid by the occupiers.

Oh. Right. The CPA that says, "Pursuant to my authority as Administrator of the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA), and under the laws and usages of war, and consistent with relevant U.N. Security Council resolutions, including Resolution 1483 (2003), and Resolution 1511 (2003); Reaffirming the right of the Iraqi people, as recognized in Resolutions 1483 and 1511, to freely determine their own political future; Noting that the Law of Administration for the State of Iraq for the Transitional Period (the “TAL”) provides for the Iraqi people to choose their government through genuine and credible elections to be held no later than 31 January 2005; Determined to achieve the transitional goals of the TAL, including the drafting and ratification of a permanent constitution, and the establishment of an elected government under that constitution; Underscoring the need for international cooperation to achieve these goals and the essential role to be played by the United Nations and other internationally recognized experts in electoral administration; Committed to establishing an impartial and internationally recognized body of Iraqi professionals and expert advisors to coordinate and oversee genuine and credible elections in Iraq; Having consulted extensively with the Iraqi Governing Council and representatives of the United Nations, I hereby promulgate the following: ...."

That must mean 'establish a puppet government' in the Muslim mind.

 

[JW Frogen]

I'm doing nothing more than acknowledging history. Ignoring the consequences of centuries of foreign hegemony is silly.

Wallowing and acknowledging are two different things.

Healing your wounds is not the same thing as picking at them.

 

[rdean]

The hell?

Oh yeahh.. the infamous picture..

I can play that game too

Dumb fuck. Iraqi adults can't write signs. Do you think the kids wrote those signs? Seriously? They even spelled everything right?

You're wrong, you can't play that game unless "losing" is your strategy.

And your gonna back that up how? Just delusion right?

rdean, crawl back into your hole.. People like you recite the Media and their bullshit.. You an intern for MSNBC?

I backed it up. If those guys could read English, they never would have held up these signs:

You show a picture of an Iraqi woman in that outfit. At least when Saddam was in power, they could dress however they wanted.

IRAQ: Saddam Better for Women - IPS ipsnews.net

''The U.S. administration has handpicked a few women and imposed them on people in the so-called parliament,'' she said. ''These women are very unknown to Iraqi women. Most of them belong to the reactionary right wing parties in power and they follow their agenda, which is discriminatory against women.''

Women would first like to see ''an end to the military occupation which has created chaos and destruction of Iraqi society and also resulted in the daily mass killing of ordinary Iraqis.''

Women particularly would ''want to see security restored so at least they can go out freely without being attacked, kidnapped or having acid thrown on their face,'' Mahmoud said. ''In addition, women want equality, freedom and their rights to be recognised in the constitution, and above all to be treated as equal human beings.''
---------------Well, we know under the "Free and Democratic" Iraq, THAT'S NEVER going to happen. Thanks Republicans. For what you did for the people of Iraq.

You know, sometimes, "effort" just doesn't count with the results are so disastrous.

 

[Si modo]

 

[Kalam]

Strawman much?

I've outlined the reasons why I don't consider the current Iraqi regime a product of self-determination. The foundations were laid by the occupiers.

Oh. Right. The CPA that says, "Pursuant to my authority as Administrator of the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA), and under the laws and usages of war, and consistent with relevant U.N. Security Council resolutions, including Resolution 1483 (2003), and Resolution 1511 (2003); Reaffirming the right of the Iraqi people, as recognized in Resolutions 1483 and 1511, to freely determine their own political future; Noting that the Law of Administration for the State of Iraq for the Transitional Period (the “TAL”) provides for the Iraqi people to choose their government through genuine and credible elections to be held no later than 31 January 2005; Determined to achieve the transitional goals of the TAL, including the drafting and ratification of a permanent constitution, and the establishment of an elected government under that constitution; Underscoring the need for international cooperation to achieve these goals and the essential role to be played by the United Nations and other internationally recognized experts in electoral administration; Committed to establishing an impartial and internationally recognized body of Iraqi professionals and expert advisors to coordinate and oversee genuine and credible elections in Iraq; Having consulted extensively with the Iraqi Governing Council and representatives of the United Nations, I hereby promulgate the following: ...."

That must mean 'establish a puppet government' in the Muslim mind.

When "freely [determining]... political future" is a process that takes place under an occupation and within a non-Islamic political framework established by foreign forces, yes, that's precisely what it means to me.

 

[Si modo]

I've outlined the reasons why I don't consider the current Iraqi regime a product of self-determination. The foundations were laid by the occupiers.

Oh. Right. The CPA that says, "Pursuant to my authority as Administrator of the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA), and under the laws and usages of war, and consistent with relevant U.N. Security Council resolutions, including Resolution 1483 (2003), and Resolution 1511 (2003); Reaffirming the right of the Iraqi people, as recognized in Resolutions 1483 and 1511, to freely determine their own political future; Noting that the Law of Administration for the State of Iraq for the Transitional Period (the “TAL”) provides for the Iraqi people to choose their government through genuine and credible elections to be held no later than 31 January 2005; Determined to achieve the transitional goals of the TAL, including the drafting and ratification of a permanent constitution, and the establishment of an elected government under that constitution; Underscoring the need for international cooperation to achieve these goals and the essential role to be played by the United Nations and other internationally recognized experts in electoral administration; Committed to establishing an impartial and internationally recognized body of Iraqi professionals and expert advisors to coordinate and oversee genuine and credible elections in Iraq; Having consulted extensively with the Iraqi Governing Council and representatives of the United Nations, I hereby promulgate the following: ...."

That must mean 'establish a puppet government' in the Muslim mind.

When "freely [determining]... political future" is a process that takes place under an occupation and within a non-Islamic political framework established by foreign forces, yes, that's precisely what it means to me.

WTF does 'non-Islamic political framework' mean as it pertains to the Iraqi government?

 

[Kalam]

WTF does 'non-Islamic political framework' mean as it pertains to the Iraqi government?

Iraq's political affairs are conducted within the framework of a non-Islamic form of government. Occupying forces laid the foundations for the political structure of the Iraqi puppet regime in such a way that they precluded the establishment of an Islamic society.