Supreme Court Rules 7-2 on Obamacare

[FA_Q2]

However a fair and equitable health care solution is something that should have government involvement. That is because government can help pool risk between the many who do not need health care most of the time, and the few do, as well as implement collective bargaining with health care providers, to get the best fair prices for everyone.

The government does not 'bargain.' It directs and then points a gun at you should you refuse. There is noting fair about that idea whatsoever.

 

[dblack]

The government does not 'bargain.' It directs and then points a gun at you should you refuse. There is noting fair about that idea whatsoever.

This is something I've never had any luck getting a liberal/socialist to recognize. Somehow, in their view, if the coercion is backed by democracy, it's all good.

 

[danielpalos]

A tax cut is not welfare.
No corporation should be receiving welfare. Tax cuts and loans, perhaps, but not welfare.

Corporate welfare has already paid multimillion dollar bonuses. Right-wingers only have fake moral outrage when it comes to the Poor.

 

[Rigby5]

That wouldn't necessarily be my goal. My goal would be to remove all "incentives", pro or con. To make providing health care as appealing as it actually is, with no carrots or sticks getting in the way. Under the current circumstances, that would have the effect of making it less appealing - but I think it's important to note that "tax incentives" are what get us into these kinds of problems in the first place.

Well yes, but the problem is there is a current carrot, but only for the wealthy.
Health care costs money, and it is wrong to allow employers a tax exempt benefit like that, to only wealthy employees.
Either all benefits should be taxed, or all employees, even poor ones, should be equally getting them.

 

[Rigby5]

I believe that if you made healthcare insurance benefits taxable, it would have little to no effect on employee provided insurance. The benefits of having employer contributions of 50% of premiums and group insurance buying power would still make all other insurance alternatives much more expensive. The only thing taxing healthcare benefits would accomplish is shift more of the tax burden on workers.

Most employees do not make a 50% contribution towards health insurance.
At many companies I worked for, I only paid in as little as 10%.
But I agree collective bargaining is still a problem.
A way to make the tax burden more fair would be to include the cost of health insurance in the standard deduction, based on number of dependents to cover.
The employer needs to be removed from the solution.
Employer based is unfair to self employed, contractors, unemployed, etc.

 

[Rigby5]

This is something I've never had any luck getting a liberal/socialist to recognize. Somehow, in their view, if the coercion is backed by democracy, it's all good.

There does not have to be any coercion for public health care.
You simply have public doctors, on whatever federal, state, county, or city level you want.
Just like the VA.

 

[Orangecat]

Corporate welfare has already paid multimillion dollar bonuses.

Which corporations received money from fed-gov to give out bonuses? Solyndra?
Again, for the slow, tax cuts are not the same thing as welfare.
Different words for different things.

 

[danielpalos]

Which corporations received money from fed-gov to give out bonuses? Solyndra?
Again, for the slow, tax cuts are not the same thing as welfare.
Different words for different things.

Multimillion dollar bonuses are not tax cuts. I understand words and resort to the fewest fallacies. Any questions?

Fact Sheet: Tax Subsidies for CEO Pay - Americans For Tax Fairness

Key Facts Closing the CEO pay loophole would save taxpayers $50 billion over 10 years. Walmart dodged $104 million in federal taxes over the past six years by exploiting the CEO pay loophole. Voters strongly oppose the CEO pay loophole. By nearly 2 to 1 (63% to 34%) they want to “prevent...

americansfortaxfairness.org

 

[Orangecat]

Multimillion dollar bonuses are not tax cuts.

True, nor are they "welfare".

I understand words and resort to the fewest fallacies.

At least you think you do. In reality, you follow a conversation at a Joe Biden level.

Any questions?

Do you think a tax cut is the same thing as welfare, yes or no?

 

[danielpalos]

True, nor are they "welfare".

At least you think you do. In reality, you follow a conversation at a Joe Biden level.

Do you think a tax cut is the same thing as welfare, yes or no?

Only if you don't believe corporate welfare is a form of welfare. Why only blame the Poor?

Of course a tax cut is not the same as welfare. It could be simple and unequal favoritism when the Rich can simply purchase better rules for themselves while the Poor have capital obstacles put in their way.

 

[Orangecat]

Of course a tax cut is not the same as welfare.

Excellent, we agree that cutting a businesses tax rates is not welfare.
Can you give me a few examples of companies that receive welfare?
We might agree on ending that.

 

[Rigby5]

Excellent, we agree that cutting a businesses tax rates is not welfare.
Can you give me a few examples of companies that receive welfare?
We might agree on ending that.

Some tax cuts can be welfare, and by that I mean an unearned and undeserved gift.
For example, while it was a good idea to subsidize agriculture originally, that was small farms and was intent on reducing food prices.
But agri-biz has taken advantage of agriculture subsidies and turned agriculture into more of a monopoly that does not pay its fair share.
The employer health care benefits for employees was taken over and abused by insurance companies.
The 15% capital gains tax rate is also such welfare, in that allows the wealthy to just get paid in stock options and pay less tax then the poor.

 

[Orangecat]

Some tax cuts can be welfare, and by that I mean an unearned and undeserved gift.

Disagree. Any money a tax cut affects would be money already earned by the business, and therefore not "undeserved".
Unless you think the money you've earned is somehow deserved more by another entity.

 

[Rigby5]

Disagree. Any money a tax cut affects would be money already earned by the business, and therefore not "undeserved".
Unless you think the money you've earned is somehow deserved more by another entity.

The whole point of taxes is to pool resources for communal benefit, like transportation, fire fighting, protection, etc.
So if a company gains the benefits of transportation, fire fighting, protection, etc., but then does not want to pay their fair share, they are being negligent.
They are then being unfairly subsidized by all those who did pay their fair share.

 

[danielpalos]

Excellent, we agree that cutting a businesses tax rates is not welfare.
Can you give me a few examples of companies that receive welfare?
We might agree on ending that.

I also agree that tax cut economics is detrimental to our economy and a reason why our Infrastructure is becoming third world or has already failed.

Bailouts for companies that are too Rich to fail is one example; letting those executives keep their multimillion dollar bonuses while complaining about equal protection of the laws for unemployment compensation for the Poor is another.

 

[harmonica]

Dana7360
another government failure and waste of taxes = MORE debt!!!

Report: Obamacare contractors paid to do nothing

Private contractor has hired employees to process Obamacare applications, but there's little work to be done, employee tells CBS affiliate

www.cbsnews.com

Workers at Wentzille Obamacare center played board games, ex-employee says

Congress plans to look into claims that workers had so little to do at taxpayer-funded facility, they spent the day playing board games.

www.stltoday.com

 

[danielpalos]

Sounds more like a management issue. They still get their bonuses, regardless. Why complain about That, right-wingers?

 

[dblack]

Some tax cuts can be welfare, and by that I mean an unearned and undeserved gift.
For example, while it was a good idea to subsidize agriculture originally, that was small farms and was intent on reducing food prices.
But agri-biz has taken advantage of agriculture subsidies and turned agriculture into more of a monopoly that does not pay its fair share.
The employer health care benefits for employees was taken over and abused by insurance companies.
The 15% capital gains tax rate is also such welfare, in that allows the wealthy to just get paid in stock options and pay less tax then the poor.

Heh.. well, yeah. That's the thing with welfare. Eventually, someone's going to get it who, in your view, doesn't deserve it. Just depends on the who's in charge and which way the political wind is blowing. The only way to avoid that is to get government out of the "free shit" business altogether.

 

[Orangecat]

but then does not want to pay their fair share, they are being negligent.

"Fair share" is a subjective opinion parroted by marxist useful idiots.

 

[Orangecat]

I also agree that tax cut economics is detrimental to our economy and a reason why our Infrastructure is becoming third world or has already failed.

Agree with whom? I never made that assertion. Pay better attention, gump.