Study: Offshore wind could generate all U.S. electricity

[mdn2000]

Well, 10 gw solar this year, 200 gw of wind. That equal to 21 nukes, at considerably less cost. And this is just the beginning.
FuturePundit: 2010 10 Gigawatts Solar Power Install Expected

June 14, 2010
2010 10 Gigawatts Solar Power Install Expected
Eric Wesoff of Green Tech Media reports on their projection that well over 10 gigawatts of solar cells will be installed in 2010.


In 2010, we will cross the threshold of 10 gigawatts of photovoltaic solar installed globally in a single year -- a record-setting and once-inconceivable number.

Rewind to ten years ago: the total amount of photovoltaics installed in the year 2000 was 170 megawatts. Since then, the solar photovoltaic industry has grown at a 51 percent annual growth rate, and 170 megawatts is now the size of a healthy utility installation or a small solar factory.

Contrast that with 200 gigawatts of wind installation this year. Wind continues to far surpass solar power due to lower costs.

20 nukes, actually considering the actual output of all Solar is 1/3, for it must be remembered that solar cannot operate 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, so using your distorting ignorant reasoning its actually 6 nuclear plants, of course Palo Verde is producing over 3 gwh so your Solar power plant actually equals less than one Palo Verde , I forget, was this another one of the world's largest solar plants? If it is we must consider the cost of the land, oh yea, solar does not need to by the land, its given to them by Obama, the financing is guaranteed, even the cost to build the panels is not considered a cost to make in compete.

Lawyers make nukes expensive, and at that they are still cheaper than solar that cannot provide reliable power.

 

[Old Rocks]

solar thermal power

Solar: Solar Thermal: Making Electricity From The Sun's Heat

Solar thermal electric power plant generates heat by using lenses and reflectors to concentrate the sun's energy. Because the heat can be stored, these plants are unique because they can generate power when it is needed, day or night, rain or shine.


Solar thermal electric systems operating in the US today [Solar Parabolic Troughs] meet the needs of over 350,000 people (equal to the population of the city of Fresno, CA or Miami, FL) and displace the equivalent of 2.3 million barrels of oil annually.


Solar thermal power plants create two and one-half times as many skilled, high paying jobs as do conventional power plants that use fossil fuels.


A CEC (California Energy Commission) study shows that even with existing tax credits, a solar thermal electric plant pays about 1.7 times more in federal, state, and local taxes than an equivalent natural gas combined cycle plant. If the plants paid the same level of taxes, their cost of electricity would be roughly the same.

 

[rdean]

There are places where the wind never stops. Republicans should be experts. They know all about "wind".

 

[mdn2000]

There are places where the wind never stops. Republicans should be experts. They know all about "wind".

Very nice, but Microsoft Paint does not win a debate.

How come you did not actually make the dots proportionate to the actual size, afraid that would not distort reality enough to be convincing.

 

[CountofTuscany]

We need to take out heads out of our asses and explore every option. What happened to all the added alternative exploration Obama promised us?

 

[Old Rocks]

He tried to find a 'compramise' and threw it all away. And, possibly, the Democratic nomination in 2012.

 

[Revere]

Old Rocks is a leaky bag of dog shit who wants Americans to be poor and miserable for no good reason.

 

[editec]

Energy Producing Winds only Blow 25% of the time. What the fuck should we do for the other 75% of the time?

Power Capacity factor

Peak Nameplate.........Continuous Average 8766hr/y
Baseload Power Plant.......90%
Hydro Electric Dam..........50%
Wind Turbine..................25%
Solar Tracker..................21%
Static PV Solar................15%

Average US Household uses 12,000kw per year.
Size required per home
5kw Solar
3kw Wind
1.5kw Hydro
0.8kw Baseload Power Plant

A rational system would have to involve some sort of stored energy mechanism. I would go with a 2 level water system, where you use some of the wind energy to pump water from a low to a high elevation, and when the wind dies down, let the water flow through a turbine. It would reduce the overall effective energy from the wind power, but would reduce the downtime (at least until all the water is in a lower state)

This does however add land use to the issue.

Yeah that's my theory, too, about how to store energy we get from wind.

No doubt engineers can find even more efficient ways to store that energy.

The problem is that we are trying to replace a very good energy source...oil.

We created our economy based on this cheap and easily stored energy, and now as this source appears to be running out, we're spoiled by how cheap it was, and how much more convenient it is than alternate energy sources.

Our energy consuption continues to rise exponentially while our energy sources are running out.

Or... even if you believe we are finding replacement oil, we are still not finding it fast enough to keep up with worldwide growing demand.

If there's one thing I think it's safe to plan on for the rest of OUR lifetimes, I think it's safe to assume that energy costs are going to go up.

Plan acordingly.

Sucks to be on the wrong side of the peak, doesn't it?

 

[Old Rocks]

I think that before we will achieve real change in our approach to energy, we will have to have a catastrophe that will create a condition that will allow a paradigm shift in personal philosophy.

At present, we are all happy to just be consumers, and take no responsibility for what we use on a daily basis in our lives. Be it energy, food, or water, we seem to have assumed that the pipes will always have water in them, whether we put up money for the system or not, that the switch on the wall will always work, whether or not we add generational capacity as we add consumption, and that the food in the supermarket will always be there at an affordable price, no matter if the wages are not increasing at the same rate as food prices, or that the farmers lose crops to variable weather.

In my youth, we raised a large garden, canned the vegitables from that garden, and picked fruit from abandoned orchards, and canned that. We had a wood stove, and a supply of wood, even when we had heat from electricity or oil. In other words, we were both consumers and producers. We need to go to that philosophy again.

Now we have the means, for those of us that own our own homes, to produce our own electricity through solar and wind. That can be done either grid parrallel, or independent. Having a vegatable garden, even a very small one, simply makes sense. Not only for the quantity of food, but also for the quality. And you would be surprised at the quantity of food that you can raise in a 10' by 20' space.

I see many people that squack about the cost of a solar installation. Even the spendy ones will only run you about 30K. A person that shops around and is good with tools, can have a 5kw installation for under $10k. How many people have a boat they use only 2 or 3 times a year that cost them that? The point is, if you truly want to as be independent as possible, then you are going to have to take more responsibility for what you consume in all spheres.

 

[Old Rocks]

Old Rocks is a leaky bag of dog shit who wants Americans to be poor and miserable for no good reason.

You are a stupid individual that cannot think further than wingnut talking points. When you actually achieve some thoughts of your own, come back to the discussion.

 

[mdn2000]

I think that before we will achieve real change in our approach to energy, we will have to have a catastrophe that will create a condition that will allow a paradigm shift in personal philosophy.

At present, we are all happy to just be consumers, and take no responsibility for what we use on a daily basis in our lives. Be it energy, food, or water, we seem to have assumed that the pipes will always have water in them, whether we put up money for the system or not, that the switch on the wall will always work, whether or not we add generational capacity as we add consumption, and that the food in the supermarket will always be there at an affordable price, no matter if the wages are not increasing at the same rate as food prices, or that the farmers lose crops to variable weather.

In my youth, we raised a large garden, canned the vegitables from that garden, and picked fruit from abandoned orchards, and canned that. We had a wood stove, and a supply of wood, even when we had heat from electricity or oil. In other words, we were both consumers and producers. We need to go to that philosophy again.

Now we have the means, for those of us that own our own homes, to produce our own electricity through solar and wind. That can be done either grid parrallel, or independent. Having a vegatable garden, even a very small one, simply makes sense. Not only for the quantity of food, but also for the quality. And you would be surprised at the quantity of food that you can raise in a 10' by 20' space.

I see many people that squack about the cost of a solar installation. Even the spendy ones will only run you about 30K. A person that shops around and is good with tools, can have a 5kw installation for under $10k. How many people have a boat they use only 2 or 3 times a year that cost them that? The point is, if you truly want to as be independent as possible, then you are going to have to take more responsibility for what you consume in all spheres.

Great post form a tree cutting ax wielder, how much education did that career take. Yes a catastrophic event must happen before the realization that Solar was a huge waste of energy, time, and money.

Money best spent developing a new technology, Solar is a technology that has failed to have a breakthrough in 60 years.

 

[Old Rocks]

Hmmm..... What were the names of the thin film producers in 1950?

 

[mdn2000]

Hmmm..... What were the names of the thin film producers in 1950?

Kodak

 

[Old Rocks]

LOL. Sure, mdn, sure. There were no thin film manufactures in 1950. In fact, there were no solar cells being manufactured in 1950, just lab testing of theories.

History of Solar Energy | Meridian Solar

History of Solar Electricity
The history of light-electricity conversion—known as the photovoltaic (PV) effect—can be traced back to the year 1839, when a French scientist named Alexandre-Edmond Becquerel first observed the phenomenon. Over the following decades it was recorded by many other scientists, but Albert Einstein was the first to study PV theory in-depth. In 1923 he was awarded a Nobel Prize for his work in the field. Still, it was not until the 1950’s that PV technology began to bloom. Scientists from Bell Laboratories developed the silicon-based solar cells that are the basis of today’s PV cell technology. Once those cells began successfully powering orbital satellites during the space race, the future of the technology was certain. Unfortunately, the cost of solar cells was still too high for broader use until the 1970’s, when Dr. Elliot Berman refined the manufacturing process of solar cells by using lower grade silicon and cheaper materials. His cells were five times less expensive, making them affordable for off-grid applications such as offshore platforms. In the 1980’s, Swiss engineer Marcus Real promoted the installation of solar systems on the rooftops of residential and commercial buildings as a more economical option than centralized solar-cell power plants. Today, solar cells continue to become more cost effective through technological improvements from public research institutions such as the National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) and private corporations. Recently, many governments and utility providers have implemented financial incentives to promote the growth and integration of solar technology. Click on the links below for specific information on key events in the lifecycle of photovoltaic technology

 

[michael39]

Solar prices have dropped dramatically. Solar IS the future and will allow not just NATIONAL energy independence, but Energy Independence for the INDIVIDUAL. As we near $1 per watt, the use of Solar energy will increase dramatically, dropping costs even more.

 

[Big Fitz]

Read the thread before saying something dumb like that.

and a dollar per watt eh? What is it for coal? 1 cent? 3 cents? How about nuclear, last I recall, even better. The best is hydro but we don't want to be damming up any more rivers I suppose.

no... let's just choose something that is 10, 20, 50, 100 times more expensive for a threat that doesn't exist.

Tell you what, do it somewhere else first and prove that that country can be the energy superpower before trying to fuck this one up.

 

[mdn2000]

And the idiots continue the rant, the premise or link this thread is based on states that wind cannot supply the energy needed. The title of the link or article is contrary to the contents of the study, the article states this.

I guess pointing this out once is not enough.

 

[KissMy]

I think that before we will achieve real change in our approach to energy, we will have to have a catastrophe that will create a condition that will allow a paradigm shift in personal philosophy.

At present, we are all happy to just be consumers, and take no responsibility for what we use on a daily basis in our lives. Be it energy, food, or water, we seem to have assumed that the pipes will always have water in them, whether we put up money for the system or not, that the switch on the wall will always work, whether or not we add generational capacity as we add consumption, and that the food in the supermarket will always be there at an affordable price, no matter if the wages are not increasing at the same rate as food prices, or that the farmers lose crops to variable weather.

In my youth, we raised a large garden, canned the vegitables from that garden, and picked fruit from abandoned orchards, and canned that. We had a wood stove, and a supply of wood, even when we had heat from electricity or oil. In other words, we were both consumers and producers. We need to go to that philosophy again.

Now we have the means, for those of us that own our own homes, to produce our own electricity through solar and wind. That can be done either grid parrallel, or independent. Having a vegatable garden, even a very small one, simply makes sense. Not only for the quantity of food, but also for the quality. And you would be surprised at the quantity of food that you can raise in a 10' by 20' space.

I see many people that squack about the cost of a solar installation. Even the spendy ones will only run you about 30K. A person that shops around and is good with tools, can have a 5kw installation for under $10k. How many people have a boat they use only 2 or 3 times a year that cost them that? The point is, if you truly want to as be independent as possible, then you are going to have to take more responsibility for what you consume in all spheres.

Rather than go overboard with drastic measures it makes more sense & EROEI to stop shopping at stores & have goods delivered to your home. Live close to work, carpool & combine trips as much as possible. Stock-up to reduce trips to stores.

A Chinese worker lives in a dorm at their work place. The average China worker consumes less than 2 barrels of oil per year to live & make products for Americans. The average American consumes over 20 barrels of oil per year to live & make products. It is much, much, much more fuel efficient to make products in China & ship them to American homes than it is for Americans to go to work to make & buy their own goods.

A ocean cargo ship gets over 1,100 net freight ton miles per gallon.
A barge gets 575 net freight ton miles per gallon.
A train gets 425 net freight ton miles per gallon.
A semi truck gets 170 net freight ton miles per gallon.
A UPS delivery truck gets 15 net freight ton miles per gallon.
A Jet plane gets 7 net freight ton miles per gallon.
A 1/2 ton pick-up truck completly filled both ways gets 9 net freight ton miles per gallon. One way 4.5 net freight ton miles per gallon.
An average 20-lbs of goods per car trip to the store empty one way gets 0.125 net freight ton miles per gallon.

FYI - CNBC just did a story (Supermarkets Inc.) on grocery stores. The average American spends $35 per trip to the store & goes shopping 3.5 times per week. You can't even buy 20-lbs worth of groceries for $35. So the average net freight ton miles per gallon for grocery shopping is likely lower than the 0.125 I quoted above. If we would just combine trips, buy more per trip, carpool, take a neighbor shopping with us or do their shopping for them we could double our mileage & cut our transportation fuel consumption by 50%.