Still a Republican?

[flaja]

Stop pandering to the extremists on both sides and we can get back to what’s important for the whole Country. Both sides have lost their way because of them. The extremists are small in number IMO and will adapt or not vote, either way we all win.

Protecting innocent life is extremism? When did you leave the Vaterland?

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

Why should public education be left to the states and only the states? What is it in the Constitution that unequivocally says the federal government has no role in public schools?

The constitution founded a government based on enumerated powers. The 10th amendment basically says "Any power not specifically granted to the feds is left up to the states. Unless it's something specifically prohibited to the states". The constitution is not a document that says "okay you can do whatever, just not this, this and this."

What benefits do we gain by giving the states exclusive control and exclusive responsibility for public education? It’s not like the states are doing even an adequate job.

The states do not always do a great job, and really I wish it were up to local governments or even abolished entirely. Teaching kids to read and write isn't rocket science, and doesn't need to be handled by faraway bureaucrats in Washington, who care more about appeasing teachers' unions.
The literacy level in the US was a good bit better before the feds got involved. We've had a federal department of education for 25 years now, and it hasn't stopped the decline in literacy. Federal mandates hamstring innovation, and federal taxes soak up resources that could have stayed with local school districts.

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

How do you know this? Where is the completely nationalized public school system for you to compare state schools to so as to know that a nationalized system would be more expensive?

Highly centralized government tends to be less efficient and less responsive than decentralized government. The boondoggles passed by the federal congress are orders of magnitude greater in scale than even the biggest state-level government's lemons.

And what happens to the national welfare when a single state fails to have a good quality school system? What happens if a dozen states fail? What happens if all 50 states fail?

Exactly, that's a good point against nationalizing the schools. If one state adopts bad policy, it affects one state. If it's done at the national level, all 50 states get the bad policy.

But it gets worse. Let's say 50 congressmen from 50 states each have one bad idea. Normally, their foolish ideas would be confined to a single state, and neighboring states act as a relief valve if things get really bad (California, I'm looking at you). But now at the national level, you've got 50 kooks together with their half-baked ideas. Not only are they further removed from the people, they are likely going to compromise with each other to get what they want--vote for my bad idea, and I'll vote for your bad idea. Now we've got as many as 50 bad new laws/regulations/mandates on the books, for all 50 states.

 

[no1tovote4]

Wouldn’t voting for a 3rd party, thus depriving the GOP of political power, be working for change?

Once again, who do you think I voted for? Voting 3rd Party isn't what I was talking about. Actually joining one of those parties simply makes it so you have no ability to caucus, or effect any change in the Party directly. You don't change how you vote, you change the Party so you can vote for it.

How so? How specifically could I vote and what specifically could I do to change the Republican Party? And at what point would you let me conclude that the Republican Party is not worth changing because it is not worth saving?

Which is "worth saving"? What do you mean it "isn't worth saving". You attempted to sound like you were more Conservative than Liberal. Fixing the GOP so you can again vote for it would be far more likely than turning the DNC into Conservatives.

How so? I thought every vote counts in this country even if it is a vote for someone who has not been anointed by Democrats or Republicans?

You keep focusing only on the vote. The Parties have caucuses and committes to select candidates. If you go to those caucuses or work your way onto one of the committees you can select the people and make the changes necessary to make the Party return to your values. Just joining the, oh let's say, Constitutional Party, only takes away any power you had in the GOP to change it. The Constitutional Party has no real chance of ever becoming mainstream at all, all you have successfully done is removed yourself from the process.

Vote for the Constitutional Party if that is how you feel, but do not give up the actual strength of caucusing with like-minded Conservatives within the GOP.

Last week Charlie Crist was elected governor of Florida. He won the GOP primary with something like 60% of the vote, but he got only 52% of the general election vote- and he still beat the Democrat by about 10 percentage points because alternative parties and candidates did better than is usual in a Florida gubernatorial election.

Still focusing on the small... The vote is only one way to effect the change you desire in politics, and is the least effective... He won by 52% of the vote regardless of the people voting third Party, as long as they can win they aren't going to change. If you were at the caucus, went to the assemblies, voted for the Candidates that would end up on the Primary Ballot, you can effect real change. Those votes are more powerful as you are representing many people other than yourself at such assemblies...

You also have power to set Local Platforms, which are then expressed again later in County Platforms, later onto State Platforms... You can, over time and with hard work, actually change the direction of politics if enough people like you are willing to caucus together to make the changes you wish for.

 

[no1tovote4]

How do you know this? Where is the completely nationalized public school system for you to compare state schools to so as to know that a nationalized system would be more expensive?

Every professional I have spoken with that works within the system has made this clear to me. The restrictions placed on schools by even the NCLB Act has made schools already less responsive to local needs.

And what happens to the national welfare when a single state fails to have a good quality school system? What happens if a dozen states fail? What happens if all 50 states fail?

If all 50 states fail then a National program would fail the same way, the people who go to National Office worked previously at the local level. This is such a silly strawman. If one state fails people work to change the system to respond to their needs within the state, it is those very needs I have stated that makes an unflexible one-size-fits-all system foolish at an extremity that can easily be seen. If all 50 states have the same failing system, there is no recourse to fix the system by pointing to a working system and working on changing yours towards one more like theirs.

The wheat will separate from the chaff, but it has no chance if it is never thrown...

BTW: What school taught to spell progressively without an “r”? I realize this may be a simple typo, but isn’t that what a spell checker is for? I personally run almost everything I post through MS Word because I don’t want others to find my posts difficult to read.

BTW: What school taught (you) to leave out the word "you" in sentences making you sound like "Captain Caveman!"?

Typing on a MessageBoard will often have a few typos, being a spelling Nazi is not the best way to present on such a plane, especially when your own posts are filled with errors...

 

[flaja]

Quote:
Originally Posted by flaja
Why should public education be left to the states and only the states? What is it in the Constitution that unequivocally says the federal government has no role in public schools?

The constitution founded a government based on enumerated powers. [/quote]

And all other powers necessary to carryout these enumerated powers.

Originally Posted by flaja
What benefits do we gain by giving the states exclusive control and exclusive responsibility for public education? It’s not like the states are doing even an adequate job.

The states do not always do a great job, and really I wish it were up to local governments or even abolished entirely.

That would be even worse. If every county is left to its own devices, what happens when a student moves from one county to another only to find out that none of the schooling he received from the previous county meets the requirements of the schools in the county he has moved to?

As it stands now I can have students for my tutoring business that are all from the same local school system and in the same grade and being tutored in the same subject, but who do not all use the same textbook. And I’ve known students in the same school taking the same subject but they don’t cover the same material even when they are using the same textbook.

Teaching kids to read and write isn't rocket science,

So I guess you must be neighbors to Jud and Granny and Ellie May and Jethro, i.e., once a kid can read and write to a 6th grade level he’s completely filled with learnin’.

The literacy level in the US was a good bit better before the feds got involved.

Documentation?

Originally Posted by flaja
How do you know this? Where is the completely nationalized public school system for you to compare state schools to so as to know that a nationalized system would be more expensive?

Highly centralized government tends to be less efficient and less responsive than decentralized government.

Do you not realize that education in other countries is highly centralized while students from these other countries routinely out-perform American students in standardized exams? Tell me why centralization works in other countries, but won’t work here?

Originally Posted by flaja
And what happens to the national welfare when a single state fails to have a good quality school system? What happens if a dozen states fail? What happens if all 50 states fail?

Exactly, that's a good point against nationalizing the schools. If one state adopts bad policy, it affects one state. If it's done at the national level, all 50 states get the bad policy.

You are automatically assuming, in knee-jerk libertarian fashion, that anything from the federal government is automatically bad and won’t work.

 

[no1tovote4]

Quote:
Originally Posted by flaja
Why should public education be left to the states and only the states? What is it in the Constitution that unequivocally says the federal government has no role in public schools?

The constitution founded a government based on enumerated powers.
And all other powers necessary to carryout these enumerated powers.



That would be even worse. If every county is left to its own devices, what happens when a student moves from one county to another only to find out that none of the schooling he received from the previous county meets the requirements of the schools in the county he has moved to?

As it stands now I can have students for my tutoring business that are all from the same local school system and in the same grade and being tutored in the same subject, but who do not all use the same textbook. And I’ve known students in the same school taking the same subject but they don’t cover the same material even when they are using the same textbook.



So I guess you must be neighbors to Jud and Granny and Ellie May and Jethro, i.e., once a kid can read and write to a 6th grade level he’s completely filled with learnin’.



Documentation?



Do you not realize that education in other countries is highly centralized while students from these other countries routinely out-perform American students in standardized exams? Tell me why centralization works in other countries, but won’t work here?



You are automatically assuming, in knee-jerk libertarian fashion, that anything from the federal government is automatically bad and won’t work.

It wouldn't be "even worse". That's why it is set at a State Level with some requirements, so that a student moving from one county to another would have those basics.

I haven't assumed it. It simply leaves us with the absolute least of options, with nothing to compare or see if improvements may help. If we set in concrete all education at a National Level there would be no other school system that may be outperforming wherein to get ideas to better the current system. All we would have is that one-size-fits-all inflexible system.

Each new level up from the local level should have less requirements so that the highest level doesn't overwhelm and take over as the NCLB has in many places. People "teaching to the test" has limited the ability of the local education system to move with their needs. They "must" get the student able to pass the test, even if they do not understand the material...

 

[flaja]

I just lost somehow my last post in reply to no1tovote4.

I won't both to repeat it. I just noticed in no1tovote4's reputation that he could start his own religion. In Jonestown maybe.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I just lost somehow my last post in reply to no1tovote4.

I won't both to repeat it. I just noticed in no1tovote4's reputation that he could start his own religion. In Jonestown maybe.

He's a dangerous masonic water carrier, beware.

 

[Annie]

I just lost somehow my last post in reply to no1tovote4.

I won't both to repeat it. I just noticed in no1tovote4's reputation that he could start his own religion. In Jonestown maybe.

Delusional. No1 is one of our best posters. You might want to check out RWA, I think he's just what you are looking for.

BTW,why do you posts sound so familiar?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Delusional. No1 is one of our best posters. You might want to check out RWA, I think he's just what you are looking for.

BTW,why do you posts sound so familiar?

Actually kathianne. Im the best poster. I've destroyed all of you so many countless times that most of you slither away in fear, as I wreck your neocon delusions.

 

[Annie]

Actually kathianne. Im the best poster. I've destroyed all of you so many countless times that most of you slither away in fear, as I wreck your neocon delusions.

uh huh!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

uh huh!

Wanna talk about nationalism? Sometimes nationalism is good, healthful, and necessary for survival. RIght?

 

[flaja]

Delusional. No1 is one of our best posters. You might want to check out RWA, I think he's just what you are looking for.

You don’t have very high standards, do you?

BTW,why do you posts sound so familiar?

You mean I have finally found a message board where the person others mistake me for is still around? I’ve been wanting to meet this person for years now.

 

[Annie]

You don’t have very high standards, do you?



You mean I have finally found a message board where the person others mistake me for is still around? I’ve been wanting to meet this person for years now.

I fixed your quotes, you're welcome. Actually our standards are quite high. How do you like RWA?

 

[flaja]

I fixed your quotes, you're welcome. Actually our standards are quite high. How do you like RWA?

As long as we don't talk about the Rebellion, he and I may get along OK.

Usually when people compare me to another poster the other poster has been banned. This happens to me more often than not. I’ve even been banned myself because a board insisted that I was the previously banned poster back under a new user ID (ISP, email address and state).

In the course of my internet travels I have been called a right-winger, a socialist and a libertarian light (God save me). But there usually seems to be at least one other poster whose views I supposedly mimic, but whom I cannot meet because he is long gone.

 

[no1tovote4]

As long as we don't talk about the Rebellion, he and I may get along OK.

Usually when people compare me to another poster the other poster has been banned. This happens to me more often than not. I’ve even been banned myself because a board insisted that I was the previously banned poster back under a new user ID (ISP, email address and state).

In the course of my internet travels I have been called a right-winger, a socialist and a libertarian light (God save me). But there usually seems to be at least one other poster whose views I supposedly mimic, but whom I cannot meet because he is long gone.

So far I cannot see why anybody would ban you. You haven't yet insulted anybody that I can remember, you simply ask questions and take part in a give and take. I'd say you are an old hat at this...