Stalinism Solves Problem of Minorities

[PoliticalChic]

"I didn't know"

You should have that tattoo's on your forehead.

Am I to understand that you were unaware of the fact the famine of 1930-s struck not only the USSR, but also Poland, Hungary, Germany, Romania and the US?

I've seen your posts...."Am I to understand" is certainly not a phrase to be applied to you.

 

[mememe]

I've seen your posts...."Am I to understand" is certainly not a phrase to be applied to you.

Did you or did you not know about famine in Poland, Hungary, Romania, Germany and the US?

And if you did, then tell me, who was responsible for it in the countries outside of the Soviet Union?

 

[Ravi]

The Nazi horrors pale in comparison to what Stalin ... did as communists.

And, pray, what did Stalin do exactly?

Stalin was shit, as was Hitler. And both of them have more in common with the current GOP than anyone else.

 

[daveman]

Collectivisation was a process of putting agriculture on industrial platform. Instead of millions of small peasant farms, large farms sprung up across the country: farms that were able to purchase and use industrial equipment, ensure that the USSR (former Russian Empire) will not suffer from famine any more, and free enough people to make industrialisation possible.

What is wrong with that?

It killed millions of people.

.

Did it? How?

Yes, it did.

Your willful and profound ignorance will be cured here. If you have the courage to accept it.

 

[daveman]

"I didn't know"

You should have that tattoo's on your forehead.

Am I to understand that you were unaware of the fact the famine of 1930-s struck not only the USSR, but also Poland, Hungary, Germany, Romania and the US?

Despite the initial plans, collectivization, accompanied by the bad harvest of 1932–1933, did not live up to expectations. Between 1929 and 1932 there was a massive fall in agricultural production resulting in famine in the countryside. Stalin and the CPSU blamed the prosperous peasants, referred to as 'kulaks' (Russian: fist), who were organizing resistance to collectivization. Allegedly, many kulaks had been hoarding grain in order to speculate on higher prices, thereby sabotaging grain collection. Stalin resolved to eliminate them as a class.
The Soviet government responded to these acts by cutting off food rations to peasants and areas where there was opposition to collectivization, especially in Ukraine. Many peasant families were forcibly resettled in Siberia and Kazakhstan into exile settlements, and most of them died on the way. Estimates suggest that about a million so-called 'kulak' families, or perhaps some 5 million people, were sent to forced labor camps.[45][46]
On August 7, 1932, the Decree about the Protection of Socialist Property proclaimed that the punishment for theft of kolkhoz or cooperative property was the death sentence, which "under extenuating circumstances" could be replaced by at least ten years of incarceration. With what some called the Law of Spikelets ("Закон о колосках"), peasants (including children) who hand-collected or gleaned grain in the collective fields after the harvest were arrested for damaging the state grain production. Martin Amis writes in Koba the Dread that 125,000 sentences were passed for this particular offense in the bad harvest period from August 1932 to December 1933.
The deaths from starvation or disease directly caused by collectivization have been estimated as between 4 and 10 million. According to official Soviet figures, some 24 million peasants disappeared from rural areas but only 12.6 million moved to state jobs[citation needed]. The implication is that the total death toll (both direct and indirect) for Stalin's collectivization program was on the order of 12 million people.[46]​

Stalin thanks you for your blind support and useful idiocy, but regrets to inform you you're a stupid motherfucker.

 

[daveman]

The Nazi horrors pale in comparison to what Stalin ... did as communists.

And, pray, what did Stalin do exactly?

Stalin was shit, as was Hitler. And both of them have more in common with the current GOP than anyone else.

Speaking of shit...

 

[whitehall]

Stalinism is today's radical liberal ideal. The book "The Court of the Red Tsar" by Simon Montefieoore which should be mandatory reading in schools. The book cites a time when the elite communists including Stalin were headed to a dacha vacation with a train loaded with exotic foods passing a train going in the opposite direction filled with starved corpses.

 

[Artevelde]

Nice try. In reality, "small government" is concentrating power in the hands of a few. Exactly what Stalin did. That he pretended to embrace communism was to get the dupes to go along with him.

Purposely misunderstanding?

See if you can do the same with this.
Conservatism: based on individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.

None of which are doctrines of Progressivism, modern Liberalism, Leftism, communism, socialism, environmentalism, feminism, or, in fact, any of your most deeply held beliefs.

See what you can do with that.

Please describe conservatism in Russia. Do Russian conservatives embrace individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government?

Conservatism is based on latitude, longitude and date of birth.

The truth: the closest model to what American conservatives would turn America into is found in Russia.

Russia is a deeply conservative country.

Fiscal policy is buttressed on a low, flat rate of income tax (13%), and there is virtually no social safety net, with spending on unemployment security, medical provision, disability aid, infrastructure, the environment, and urban regeneration far lower, in both absolute terms and as a percentage of GDP, than its G8 contemporaries.

Similarly, military spending is high in comparison — and growing — medical care is available free in theory, but requires private insurance or additional cash payment in practice, and businesses are in reality pretty un-regulated.

If that doesn’t sound to you like a set of policies Newt Gingrich or William F Buckley would support, then you don’t know your dyed in the wool conservatives from your woolly jumper wearing liberals.

Complete nonsense. In Russia the state is supreme and gets to use arbitrary power. That's precisely the opposite of conservatism.

 

[Artevelde]

Really? Expand...

It is the usual left wing nonsense of saying Stalin wasn't really a Communist. Of course he was. And the same anti-human and anti-democratic tendencies are endemic in all Communist regimes and Communist parties.

To claim Stalin was a conservative is also preposterous. He was th exact opposite: a revolutionary.

I never said Stalin wasn't really a Communist. Of course he was. But Communism is not a liberal belief. Socialism is.

Socialism is liberal. More people (preferably everyone) have some say in how the economy works. Democracy is liberal. More people (preferably everyone) have some say in how the government works. "Democracy," said Marx, "is the road to socialism." He was wrong about how economics and politics interact, but he did see their similar underpinnings.

Communism is conservative. Fewer and fewer people (preferably just the Party Secretary) have any say in how the economy works. Republicans are conservative. Fewer and fewer people (preferably just people controlling the Party figurehead) have any say in how the government works. The conservatives in the US are in the same position as the communists in the 30s, and for the same reason: Their revolutions failed spectacularly but they refuse to admit what went wrong.

"I always believed as a speechwriter that if you could persuade the president to commit himself to certain words, he would feel himself committed to the ideas that underlay those words. And the big shock to me has been that although the president said the words, he just did not absorb the ideas. And that is the root of, maybe, everything."
David Frum - Speechwriter for George W. Bush

This is a complete and wilful misrepresentation of what Conservatism is about.

 

[Artevelde]

The Nazi horrors pale in comparison to what Stalin ... did as communists.

And, pray, what did Stalin do exactly?

Murder many millions of people. Set up an enormous network of concentration camps. ...

 

[Artevelde]

Soviet Collectivization

Collectivisation was a process of putting agriculture on industrial platform. Instead of millions of small peasant farms, large farms sprung up across the country: farms that were able to purchase and use industrial equipment, ensure that the USSR (former Russian Empire) will not suffer from famine any more, and free enough people to make industrialisation possible.

What is wrong with that?

They didn't "spring up". They were forced on the rural population with unheard of terror and murder and resulted in massive and deliberate starvation.

 

[Artevelde]

All set to do my research on those nations that practice or have practiced Marxian communism, so can someone name the countries that have or are practicing Marxian communism today?
Of course there are none, and never has been one, yet some try to whip Americans into a panic that we might suddenly turn into a communist nation because we will eventually have health care for its citizens. Does it work, how many Americans believe the sun revolves about the earth?

There have been many Communist regimes and there still are a few around. They are among the most repressive, anti-human and murderous experiences in human history.

 

[Artevelde]

I've seen your posts...."Am I to understand" is certainly not a phrase to be applied to you.

Did you or did you not know about famine in Poland, Hungary, Romania, Germany and the US?

And if you did, then tell me, who was responsible for it in the countries outside of the Soviet Union?

You're just the Communist equivalent of a holocaust denier.

 

[Artevelde]

Stalinism is today's radical liberal ideal. The book "The Court of the Red Tsar" by Simon Montefieoore which should be mandatory reading in schools. The book cites a time when the elite communists including Stalin were headed to a dacha vacation with a train loaded with exotic foods passing a train going in the opposite direction filled with starved corpses.

Indeed a good book.

 

[mememe]

The Nazi horrors pale in comparison to what Stalin ... did as communists.

And, pray, what did Stalin do exactly?

Stalin was shit, .

In who's opinion?
By what criteria?

and your answer was not responding to my question.

 

[mememe]

It killed millions of people.

.

Did it? How?

Yes, it did.

Your willful and profound ignorance will be cured .

Did some people resist collectivisation? Yes.
Did others embrace collectivisation? Yes.

What happens in US (or any other country for that matter) to those who steal or damage other people's/state/corporate property? They are punished in accordance with the law. So, why it should've been different in the USSR?

I am not even going to analyse your numbers for the "livestock"; I am simply going to ask you: how many famines did the Soviet Union suffer from 1933 onwards?

As for "Stalin confined in Churchill during Yalta conference" -- it really made my day!

Still, my question stands: IF STALIN AND COLLECTIVISATION WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FAMINE IN THE USSR IN 1930-s, THEN WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FAMINE OF 1930-s IN POLAND, HUNGARY, ROMANIA, GERMANY AND THE USA?

PS
In future, when you wish to operate figures regarding the aspects of life in the SOVIET UNION, please use SOVIET documents and not your own epistolary genre

 

[mememe]

Stalinism is today's radical liberal ideal.

No.

Today's radical liberal ideal is TROTSKISM.

Stalin eradicated Trotskism in the USSR, that's why you read an avalanche of curses from Western liberal elites about Stalin, but not a bad word about Trotsky.

 

[mememe]

The Nazi horrors pale in comparison to what Stalin ... did as communists.

And, pray, what did Stalin do exactly?

Murder many millions of people. Set up an enormous network of concentration camps. ...

1. GULAG was not a system of "concentration camps"; it was part of PENAL SYSTEM with labour camps and settlements.

Concentration camps were in the USA for US citizens of Japanese ethnicity.

2. Please, elaborate on your "murdered many millions of people". How? Where?

 

[Artevelde]

And, pray, what did Stalin do exactly?

Murder many millions of people. Set up an enormous network of concentration camps. ...

1. GULAG was not a system of "concentration camps"; it was part of PENAL SYSTEM with labour camps and settlements.

Concentration camps were in the USA for US citizens of Japanese ethnicity.

2. Please, elaborate on your "murdered many millions of people". How? Where?

You're just a liar. Not much use debating somebody who denies facts.

 

[mememe]

Soviet Collectivization

Collectivisation was a process of putting agriculture on industrial platform. Instead of millions of small peasant farms, large farms sprung up across the country: farms that were able to purchase and use industrial equipment, ensure that the USSR (former Russian Empire) will not suffer from famine any more, and free enough people to make industrialisation possible.

What is wrong with that?

They didn't "spring up". They were forced on the rural population with unheard of terror and murder and resulted in massive and deliberate starvation.

It's all just emotive words of Cold War origin.

Some people resisted collectivisation, others embraced it. And no "terror" could have forced people into anything the majority of them didn't want: don't forget, you are talking of a nation that only few years back went through a terror of a Civil War.