Stalinism Solves Problem of Minorities

[JakeStarkey]

In your case, PC, press 1 for self awareness.

 

[PoliticalChic]

In your case, PC, press 1 for self awareness.

Make a point.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The Nazi horrors pale in comparison to what Stalin ... did as communists.

And, pray, what did Stalin do exactly?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd8E9xBasKI]Soviet Collectivization Historical Doc Project - YouTube[/ame]

 

[JakeStarkey]

The point was made: you foist more nonsense on this Board than the next three extremists.

It is what it is.

Have the last word, please.

 

[daveman]

I think you are one of the NOT GOOD people you seem to think everyone is OP

Oh, my poor sad friend....

...I know you pretend that I said that.

But you know that what I, and James Madison said, is that humans are not angels.

....so, you believe that everyone is good?


1. Dennis Prager: “The Left would like to believe that people are basically good. Therefore the Left declares people to be basically good…..[/B]The Left would like to believe that all countries, cultures, and individuals want the same things-a peaceful, tolerant, open, free society. Therefore, they believe it.

First, let's correct Prager's statement - Liberals believe that people are basically good. Therefore the liberal declares people to be basically good…Liberals believe that all countries, cultures, and individuals want the same things - a peaceful, tolerant, open, free society.

We agree on liberal beliefs, so let's look at what conservatives believe?

Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone

Classical liberals assume a natural equality of humans; conservatives assume a natural hierarchy.
James M. Buchanan


Now PC, which set of beliefs could spawn the climate and circumstance where groups of people are ostracized, condemned and in extreme cases, exterminated?

You and Prager reinforce what 88 different psychological studies conducted between 1958 and 2002 that involved 22,818 people from 12 different countries clearly shows:

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer - The Authoritarians



RUSSIA: Conservative Dictator
Monday, Aug. 08, 1927

RUSSIA: Conservative Dictator - TIME

You just proved Prager right. You claim that what you believe is true because you want to believe it.

 

[daveman]

I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion.
Thomas Jefferson

So why do you support policies designed to take control away from people and give it to government?

Buchanan, whom you quoted earlier, said he rejects "any organic conception of the state as superior in wisdom, to the citizens of this state."

Yet that's what you embrace, by supporting liberals.

 

[daveman]

Stalin was very conservative. He wanted all the power concentrated in his hands. Quite the opposite of Marxism, which wanted everyone to be equally powerful.

Stalin was a rightwingloon just like Hitler was a rightwingloon.

"He wanted all the power concentrated in his hands."


Pretty much the definition of 'big government,' isn't it.

That makes it Left wing.

Nice try. In reality, "small government" is concentrating power in the hands of a few. Exactly what Stalin did. That he pretended to embrace communism was to get the dupes to go along with him.

Wow. You really believe that?

Small government puts power in the hands of all the population -- an idea which the left despises.

 

[mememe]

Soviet Collectivization

Collectivisation was a process of putting agriculture on industrial platform. Instead of millions of small peasant farms, large farms sprung up across the country: farms that were able to purchase and use industrial equipment, ensure that the USSR (former Russian Empire) will not suffer from famine any more, and free enough people to make industrialisation possible.

What is wrong with that?

 

[regent]

All set to do my research on those nations that practice or have practiced Marxian communism, so can someone name the countries that have or are practicing Marxian communism today?
Of course there are none, and never has been one, yet some try to whip Americans into a panic that we might suddenly turn into a communist nation because we will eventually have health care for its citizens. Does it work, how many Americans believe the sun revolves about the earth?

 

[daveman]

Nice try. In reality, "small government" is concentrating power in the hands of a few. Exactly what Stalin did. That he pretended to embrace communism was to get the dupes to go along with him.

Purposely misunderstanding?

See if you can do the same with this.
Conservatism: based on individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.

None of which are doctrines of Progressivism, modern Liberalism, Leftism, communism, socialism, environmentalism, feminism, or, in fact, any of your most deeply held beliefs.

See what you can do with that.

Please describe conservatism in Russia. Do Russian conservatives embrace individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government?

Conservatism is based on latitude, longitude and date of birth.

The truth: the closest model to what American conservatives would turn America into is found in Russia.

Russia is a deeply conservative country.

Fiscal policy is buttressed on a low, flat rate of income tax (13%), and there is virtually no social safety net, with spending on unemployment security, medical provision, disability aid, infrastructure, the environment, and urban regeneration far lower, in both absolute terms and as a percentage of GDP, than its G8 contemporaries.

Similarly, military spending is high in comparison — and growing — medical care is available free in theory, but requires private insurance or additional cash payment in practice, and businesses are in reality pretty un-regulated.

If that doesn’t sound to you like a set of policies Newt Gingrich or William F Buckley would support, then you don’t know your dyed in the wool conservatives from your woolly jumper wearing liberals.

That's a good argument. Similarly, the model for what progressives want is the USSR circa 1958. Total control over individual lives by the government.

 

[daveman]

Soviet Collectivization

Collectivisation was a process of putting agriculture on industrial platform. Instead of millions of small peasant farms, large farms sprung up across the country: farms that were able to purchase and use industrial equipment, ensure that the USSR (former Russian Empire) will not suffer from famine any more, and free enough people to make industrialisation possible.

What is wrong with that?

It killed millions of people.

Some people don't seem to care about that. You seem to be one of them.

Like I said: Communists are stupid.

 

[mememe]

so can someone name the countries that have or are practicing Marxian communism today?

What is "Marxian communism" I do not know, but I can name you few countries whose liberal elites adopted ideology of Marxism-Trotskism: USA, UK, Sweden (as examples)...

 

[mememe]

Soviet Collectivization

Collectivisation was a process of putting agriculture on industrial platform. Instead of millions of small peasant farms, large farms sprung up across the country: farms that were able to purchase and use industrial equipment, ensure that the USSR (former Russian Empire) will not suffer from famine any more, and free enough people to make industrialisation possible.

What is wrong with that?

It killed millions of people.

.

Did it? How?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Soviet Collectivization

Collectivisation was a process of putting agriculture on industrial platform. Instead of millions of small peasant farms, large farms sprung up across the country: farms that were able to purchase and use industrial equipment, ensure that the USSR (former Russian Empire) will not suffer from famine any more, and free enough people to make industrialisation possible.

What is wrong with that?

"What is wrong with that?"

Millions of children with bloated stomachs forced to eat their shoes....

"What is wrong with that?"


Don’t let me keep you…I know you are hungrily searching for a new human host organism.

 

[mememe]

"What is wrong with that?"

Millions of children with bloated stomachs forced to eat their shoes....

.

I'm sorry, I did not quite catch your thought, what children and when were "eating their shoes"?

 

[PoliticalChic]

All set to do my research on those nations that practice or have practiced Marxian communism, so can someone name the countries that have or are practicing Marxian communism today?
Of course there are none, and never has been one, yet some try to whip Americans into a panic that we might suddenly turn into a communist nation because we will eventually have health care for its citizens. Does it work, how many Americans believe the sun revolves about the earth?

Here, reggie...let me start off your research:


1. Modern history presents us with two divergent models of economic arrangement: socialism, and capitalism. One of these appears preoccupied with the common good, and social betterment, the other with profits and production.

2. In its modern beginnings, socialism was optimistic and well intentioned, without the overlay of its contemporary varieties that tend to bemoan prosperity, romanticize poverty, and promote a view that place individual rights are a secondary concern. This is to say that the earliest socialists sought the fullest possible flourishing of humanity, “the common good.”

3. A half-century before Karl Marx published the Communist Manifesto, there was Gracchus Babeuf’s Plebeian Manifesto, which was later renamed the Manifesto of the Equals. Babeuf’s early (1796) work has been described as socialist, anarchist, and communist, and has had an enormous impact. He wrote: “The French Revolution was nothing but a precursor of another revolution, on which will be bigger, more solemn, and which will be the last…We reach for something more sublime and more just: the common good or the community of goods! Nor more individual property in land: the land belongs to no one. We demand, we want, the common enjoyment of the fruits of the land: the fruits belong to all.” Here, then, are the major themes of socialist theory. It takes very little interpolation to find that opponents profit at the expense of the environment, and conditions of inequality in society.

4. For Babeur, socialism would distribute prosperity across the entire population, as it would “[have] us eat four good meals a day, [dress} us most elegantly, and also [provide] those of us who are fathers of families with charming houses worth a thousand louis each.”

5. Oscar Wilde: “Under socialism…there will be no people living in fetid dens and fetid rags, and bringing up unhealthy, hunger pinched children in the midst of impossible and absolutely repulsive surroundings…Each member of society will share in the general prosperity and happiness of the society…”

6. Marxism rested on the assumption that the condition of the working classes would grow ever worse under capitalism, that there would be but two classes: one small and rich, the other vast and increasingly impoverished, and revolution would be the anodyne that would result in the “common good.” But by the early 20th century, it was clear that this assumption was completely wrong! Under capitalism, the standard of living of all was improving: prices falling, incomes rising, health and sanitation improving, lengthening of life spans, diets becoming more varied, the new jobs created in industry paid more than most could make in agriculture, housing improved, and middle class industrialists and business owners displaced nobility and gentry as heroes.

7. These economic advances continued throughout the period of the rise of socialist ideology. The poor didn’t get poorer because the rich were getting richer (a familiar socialist refrain even today) as the socialists had predicted. Instead, the underlying reality was that capitalism had created the first societies in history in which living standards were rising in all sectors of society.

From a speech by Rev. Robert A. Sirico, President, Acton Institute for the Study of Religion and Liberty.
Delivered at Hillsdale College, October 27, 2006

 

[PoliticalChic]

"What is wrong with that?"

Millions of children with bloated stomachs forced to eat their shoes....

.

I'm sorry, I did not quite catch your thought, what children and when were "eating their shoes"?

To be as ignorant as you are, you should be sorry.


"Joseph Stalin, leader of the Soviet Union, set in motion events designed to cause a famine in the Ukraine to destroy the people there seeking independence from his rule. As a result, an estimated 7,000,000 persons perished in this farming area, known as the breadbasket of Europe, with the people deprived of the food they had grown with their own hands.

Stalin also imposed the Soviet system of land management known as collectivization. This resulted in the seizure of all privately owned farmlands and livestock, in a country where 80 percent of the people were traditional village farmers. Among those farmers, were a class of people called Kulaks by the Communists. They were formerly wealthy farmers that had owned 24 or more acres, or had employed farm workers. Stalin believed any future insurrection would be led by the Kulaks, thus he proclaimed a policy aimed at "liquidating the Kulaks as a class."

Declared "enemies of the people," the Kulaks were left homeless and without a single possession as everything was taken from them, even their pots and pans. It was also forbidden by law for anyone to aid dispossessed Kulak families. Some researchers estimate that ten million persons were thrown out of their homes, put on railroad box cars and deported to "special settlements" in the wilderness of Siberia during this era, with up to a third of them perishing amid the frigid living conditions. Men and older boys, along with childless women and unmarried girls, also became slave-workers in Soviet-run mines and big industrial projects."
The History Place - Genocide in the 20th Century: Stalin's Forced Famine 1932-33

 

[mememe]

"Joseph Stalin, leader of the Soviet Union, set in motion events designed to cause a famine in the Ukraine to destroy the people there seeking independence from his rule. As a result, an estimated 7,000,000 persons perished in this farming area,

I hope, you know that the number you operate was taken directly from Dr Goebbels propaganda article?

Anyway...

As far as I understand, you referred to the start of 1930-s? The famine? The very same famine that was rife not only in different parts of the Soviet Union (btw., not all regions of Ukraine suffered from it), but also in Poland, Hungary, Romania, Germany and the USA?

Wow! I didn't know Stalin organised collectivisation in all those countries!

 

[PoliticalChic]

"Joseph Stalin, leader of the Soviet Union, set in motion events designed to cause a famine in the Ukraine to destroy the people there seeking independence from his rule. As a result, an estimated 7,000,000 persons perished in this farming area,

I hope, you know that the number you operate was taken directly from Dr Goebbels propaganda article?

Anyway...

As far as I understand, you referred to the start of 1930-s? The famine? The very same famine that was rife not only in different parts of the Soviet Union (btw., not all regions of Ukraine suffered from it), but also in Poland, Hungary, Romania, Germany and the USA?

Wow! I didn't know Stalin organised collectivisation in all those countries!

"I didn't know"

You should have that tattoo's on your forehead.

 

[mememe]

"I didn't know"

You should have that tattoo's on your forehead.

Am I to understand that you were unaware of the fact the famine of 1930-s struck not only the USSR, but also Poland, Hungary, Germany, Romania and the US?