Speculation As To What Trump's Documents Bearing Classification Markings Contains

[Jim H - VA USA]

By now, everyone is familiar with the FBI Attachment F evidence picture showing redacted documents with covers scattered about the floor in 45's Mar-A-Lago office....

The full official image is on the last page of this PDF...

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/22272789/doj-response-to-trump-special-master.pdf

The dates on some of the documents are partly legible. For example...

and

Why would the FBI include these dates, but omit others?

So, what hint of content could the dates provide?

It looks like August 24, 2018 to me.

Could these tweets from Trump made on August 24th 2018 provide a clue?

August 24, 2018 10:28:37

....FISA abuse Christopher Steele & his phony and corrupt Dossier the Clinton Foundation illegal surveillance of Trump Campaign Russian collusion by Dems - and so much more. Open up the papers & documents without redaction? Come on Jeff you can do it the country is waiting!

August 24, 2018 1113

Ex-NSA contractor to spend 63 months in jail over 'classified' information. Gee this is 'small potatoes' compared to what Hillary Clinton did! So unfair Jeff Double Standard.

August 24, 2018 17:36:00

I have asked Secretary of State Mike Pompeo not to go to North Korea at this time because I feel we are not making sufficient progress with respect to the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula...

Perhaps the raid was not so much about classified documents, but had more to do with the FBI wanting to get documents which are damaging to the FBI.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

By now, everyone is familiar with the FBI Attachment F evidence picture showing redacted documents with covers scattered about the floor in 45's Mar-A-Lago office....

View attachment 690744

The full official image is on the last page of this PDF...

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/22272789/doj-response-to-trump-special-master.pdf

The dates on some of the documents are partly legible. For example...

View attachment 690746

and

View attachment 690749

Why would the FBI include these dates, but omit others?

So, what hint of content could the dates provide?

It looks like August 24, 2018 to me.

Could these tweets from Trump made on August 24th 2018 provide a clue?

August 24, 2018 10:28:37

....FISA abuse Christopher Steele & his phony and corrupt Dossier the Clinton Foundation illegal surveillance of Trump Campaign Russian collusion by Dems - and so much more. Open up the papers & documents without redaction? Come on Jeff you can do it the country is waiting!

August 24, 2018 1113

Ex-NSA contractor to spend 63 months in jail over 'classified' information. Gee this is 'small potatoes' compared to what Hillary Clinton did! So unfair Jeff Double Standard.

August 24, 2018 17:36:00

I have asked Secretary of State Mike Pompeo not to go to North Korea at this time because I feel we are not making sufficient progress with respect to the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula...

Perhaps the raid was not so much about classified documents, but had more to do with the FBI wanting to get documents which are damaging to the FBI

BINGO
I heard that Trump had the phony FISA warrants and that was the reason for the Panty raid. Trump should have made them public long ago.

 

[occupied]

Yeah, that's the ticket. Meanwhile we lost a record number foriegn intelligence sources last year.

 

[Magnus]

By now, everyone is familiar with the FBI Attachment F evidence picture showing redacted documents with covers scattered about the floor in 45's Mar-A-Lago office....

View attachment 690744

The full official image is on the last page of this PDF...

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/22272789/doj-response-to-trump-special-master.pdf

The dates on some of the documents are partly legible. For example...

View attachment 690746

and

View attachment 690749

Why would the FBI include these dates, but omit others?

So, what hint of content could the dates provide?

It looks like August 24, 2018 to me.

Could these tweets from Trump made on August 24th 2018 provide a clue?

August 24, 2018 10:28:37

....FISA abuse Christopher Steele & his phony and corrupt Dossier the Clinton Foundation illegal surveillance of Trump Campaign Russian collusion by Dems - and so much more. Open up the papers & documents without redaction? Come on Jeff you can do it the country is waiting!

August 24, 2018 1113

Ex-NSA contractor to spend 63 months in jail over 'classified' information. Gee this is 'small potatoes' compared to what Hillary Clinton did! So unfair Jeff Double Standard.

August 24, 2018 17:36:00

I have asked Secretary of State Mike Pompeo not to go to North Korea at this time because I feel we are not making sufficient progress with respect to the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula...

Perhaps the raid was not so much about classified documents, but had more to do with the FBI wanting to get documents which are damaging to the FBI.

The orange douchebag story keeps changing, doesn't it? Remember when the loser claimed the FBI was "planting" documents at Mar Lago?

Before that, it was... the FBI won't find any classified documents etc etc.

That's the problem with lies. It is so hard to keep the stories straight.

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

Yeah, that's the ticket. Meanwhile we lost a record number foriegn intelligence sources last year.

I am sorry, but I don't get your point. Last year, Biden was POTUS. Also, foreign sources are not under the FBI's purview. FBI is mainly a domestic intelligence agency, and the CIA/NSA etc. cover foreign stuff, I think.

Sorry, if I am being thick, but could you please clarify if important?

 

[occupied]

I am sorry, but I don't get your point. Last year, Biden was POTUS. Also, foreign sources are not under the FBI's purview. FBI is mainly a domestic intelligence agency, and the CIA/NSA etc. cover foreign stuff, I think.

Sorry, if I am being thick, but could you please clarify if important?

Trump allegedly had files concerning human intelligence sources in adversary nations.

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

The orange douchebag story keeps changing, doesn't it? Remember when the loser claimed the FBI was "planting" documents at Mar Lago?

Before that, it was... the FBI won't find any classified documents etc etc.

That's the problem with lies. It is so hard to keep the stories straight.

You have a good point to make. It would be better without the childish namecalling, but to each, their own.

On the merits of your post...

Trump's narrative could be considered to be changing, I suppose, but it could also be that all of the things you have heard are entirely consistent and part of a cohesive and consistent story.

It could be true that Trump declassified everything. Probably is. If he in fact took them to Mar-A-Lago, it would indicate they were declassified. Therefore, the FBI would not find any classified documents.

Trump never claimed that the FBI planted documents. He wanted to know what the reason for not allowing witnesses to watch the search, and also requesting to have cameras turned off, could be. Planting evidence would be a plausible reason. Trump's lawyer also voiced concern over the possibility, but never actually made an accusation of fact.

Trump also claimed that other officials took lots of documents, which is probably true although denied by the MSM. Who knows.

Trump also said that they could come get the documents at any time. That might also be true. From everything I read in the FBI's court docs, they were in discussion with Trump to get the documents, and I never saw where they were refused entry to look at things. They had been shown a room full of documents, and had received some batches from Team Trump.

Or all of this could be false, and Trump took the documents because he was planning to sell them for millions of dollars, LOL.

 

[Lesh]

BINGO
I heard that Trump had the phony FISA warrants and that was the reason for the Panty raid. Trump should have made them public long ago.

You heard that huh?

Q bullshit?

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

Trump allegedly had files concerning human intelligence sources in adversary nations.

Thanks for the clarification. I am surprised you would give that any credibility, just like the claim of "nuclear secrets."

The FBI has given no indication as to what the contents of the alleged classified documents were, so any unsourced reports are mere speculation, like my own in the OP.

I bet you the contents of the documents had much to do with the investigation of Trump. Trump was undoubtedly and rightly obsessed about it. Also, probably some mementos like love letters from Kim Kong Un and Putin. Maybe the secret recipe for Covfefe.

 

[occupied]

Thanks for the clarification. I am surprised you would give that any credibility, just like the claim of "nuclear secrets."

The FBI has given no indication as to what the contents of the alleged classified documents were, so any unsourced reports are mere speculation, like my own in the OP.

I bet you the contents of the documents had much to do with the investigation of Trump. Trump was undoubtedly and rightly obsessed about it. Also, probably some mementos like love letters from Kim Kong Un and Putin. Maybe the secret recipe for Covfefe.

One of the files shown on the floor had a "top secret HCS-P" designation.

HCS-P - HUMINT Control System Product, using the acronym for human intelligence. According to the office of the Director of National Intelligence's classification manual, "HCS protects the most sensitive HUMINT operations and information acquired from clandestine and/or uniquely sensitive HUMINT sources, methods, and certain technical collection capabilities, technologies, and methods linked to or supportive of HUMINT."

What was actually in the file we may never know but Trump declassifying such a thing would border on treason.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

You have a good point to make. It would be better without the childish namecalling, but to each, their own.

On the merits of your post...

Trump's narrative could be considered to be changing, I suppose, but it could also be that all of the things you have heard are entirely consistent and part of

It could be true that Trump declassified everything. Probably is. If he in fact took them to Mar-A-Lago, it would indicate they were declassified. Therefore, the FBI would not find any classified documents.

Trump never claimed that the FBI planted documents. He wanted to know what the reason for not allowing witnesses to watch the search, and also requesting to have cameras turned off, could be. Planting evidence would be a plausible reason. Trump's lawyer also voiced concern over the possibility, but never actually made an accusation of fact.

Trump also claimed that other officials took lots of documents, which is probably true although denied by the MSM. Who knows.

Trump also said that they could come get the documents at any time. That might also be true. From everything I read in the FBI's court docs, they were in discussion with Trump to get the documents, and I never saw where they were refused entry to look at things. They had been shown a room full of documents, and had received some batches from Team Trump.

Or all of this could be false, and Trump took the documents because he was planning to sell them for millions of dollars, LOL.

Trump said they could have documents. He never indicated any agreement to turn over his wife's underwear. That's what was seized.

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

One of the files shown on the floor had a "top secret HCS-P" designation.

HCS-P - HUMINT Control System Product, using the acronym for human intelligence. According to the office of the Director of National Intelligence's classification manual, "HCS protects the most sensitive HUMINT operations and information acquired from clandestine and/or uniquely sensitive HUMINT sources, methods, and certain technical collection capabilities, technologies, and methods linked to or supportive of HUMINT."

What was actually in the file we may never know but Trump declassifying such a thing would border on treason.

This alone means nothing, though. It simply states that that info received from or a HUMINT source is involved.

For example, it could be that the FBI has informants at Twitter/Google who know for a fact that Jack Dorsey and Jeff Zuckerberg hate Trump and have expressed a willingness to work with the FBI to silence him.

It could be a million things, who knows. Cover sheets saying "classified" don't mean much, particularly when a president is involved. He was privy to the info. He took it to Mar-A-Lago. Presumably, therefore, he had declassified it.

 

[occupied]

This alone means nothing, though. It simply states that that info received from or a HUMINT source is involved.

For example, it could be that the FBI has informants at Twitter/Google who know for a fact that Jack Dorsey and Jeff Zuckerberg hate Trump and have expressed a willingness to work with the FBI to silence him.

It could be a million things, who knows. Cover sheets saying "classified" don't mean much, particularly when a president is involved. He was privy to the info. He took it to Mar-A-Lago. Presumably, therefore, he had declassified it.

There is a paper trail when things get declassified. None exists. Declassified documents are stamped as such and signed off by the agency that owns them.

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

There is a paper trail when things get declassified. None exists. Declassified documents are stamped as such and signed off by the agency that owns them.

Not the case for documents or information which is declassified by a president.

A president can declassify without following any procedure but his own. As head of the executive branch, the president is the utmost authority on classification.

Do you not think that Biden can't whisper classified information into a head-of-state's ear? For example, tell Macron that we are going to supply Ukraine with something next week? Of course you don't.

NPR 2017:
Well, so the president controls classified information. The - almost the definition of classified information is material the president wants to protect. So if the president wants to disclose it, he gets to disclose it. And disclosures that would be a very serious crime if anyone else did them are almost certainly not if the president does them. So, you know, if the question is, is there a criminal problem here, the answer is almost certainly not.



Politifact 2017:

Do presidents have 'the ability to declassify anything'?

The blockbuster article in The Washington Post saying President Donald Trump had "revealed highly classified information

www.politifact.com

If you still believe otherwise, please provide a link to a federal regulation which describes a procedure a president must follow in order to declassify. You can't find one, because there is none. There is no requirement for a president to create a paper trail.

 

[occupied]

Not the case for documents or information which is declassified by a president.

A president can declassify without following any procedure but his own. As head of the executive branch, the president is the utmost authority on classification.

Do you not think that Biden can't whisper classified information into a head-of-state's ear? For example, tell Macron that we are going to supply Ukraine with something next week? Of course you don't.

NPR 2017:
Well, so the president controls classified information. The - almost the definition of classified information is material the president wants to protect. So if the president wants to disclose it, he gets to disclose it. And disclosures that would be a very serious crime if anyone else did them are almost certainly not if the president does them. So, you know, if the question is, is there a criminal problem here, the answer is almost certainly not.



Politifact 2017:

View attachment 690836

Do presidents have 'the ability to declassify anything'?

The blockbuster article in The Washington Post saying President Donald Trump had "revealed highly classified information

www.politifact.com

If you still believe otherwise, please provide a link to a federal regulation which describes a procedure a president must follow in order to declassify. You can't find one, because there is none.

If they are declassified then everything seized at the Trump palace should be already available through a FOIA request.

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

If they are declassified then everything seized at the Trump palace should be already available through a FOIA request.

So what. That is not proof of anything at all. It's just what is supposed to happen eventually, and probably never will. You think I can request page 27,194,274 of Obama's 30M documents with a FOIA? It's been four years longer than when Trump left office.

 

[occupied]

So what. That is not proof of anything at all. It's just what is supposed to happen eventually, and probably never will. You think I can request page 27,194,274 of Obama's 30M documents with a FOIA? It's been four years longer than when Trump left office.

Things get declassified for everyone, not just for Trump. If we can't see it, he shouldn't have it.

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

Things get declassified for everyone, not just for Trump. If we can't see it, he shouldn't have it.

What would be the crime? Withholding FOIA info?

Him having info subject to FOIA is not proof of anything substantive, and it certainly is not proof that he had not declassified the docs.

Proof would be Trump saying that he had not. It's impossible to prove otherwise, IMO.

Regards,
Jim

 

[occupied]

What would be the crime? Withholding FOIA info?

Him having info subject to FOIA is not proof of anything substantive, and it certainly is not proof that he had not declassified the docs.

Proof would be Trump saying that he had not. It's impossible to prove otherwise, IMO.

Regards,
Jim

If there is no evidence or documentation he declassified this stuff while he was still president it's not declassified. Ex presidents have no retroactive powers.

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

If there is no evidence or documentation he declassified this stuff while he was still president it's not declassified. Ex presidents have no retroactive powers.

Right.

But clearly, all of the documents were removed during his term.

By nature of him moving them to Mar-A-Lago, that is proof that he declassified them.