Spare me the talk on JOB!

[Navy1960]

The Obama administration pushed through the $800 billion economic stimulus bill last month because it said the measure would “save or create 3.5 million jobs” including 16,000 in New Hampshire.

But a looming decision by Obama’s Defense Department could make saving some of those jobs harder.

Over the last several weeks, Lockheed Martin has been involved in a massive advertising campaign designed to focus attention on the thousands of jobs associated with the production of the F-22 fighter jet. Nationwide, the F-22 line employs 95,000 workers at 1,000 companies in 44 states.
NH’s 7,000 F-22 Jobs Still at Risk : Now! Hampshire

In a time where the economy is in terrible shape and our defense is stretched to it's limits, now comes this. We pass Stimulus bills all in the name of stimulating employment and we have all seen how well that worked. We see political figures on a daily basis democrat and republican get up there and wax poetic about JOBS JOBS JOBS and then when the time comes to actually save them and actually provide for the defense needs of this nation what do they do? They strike it from the Defense Appropriations bill with McCain/Levin Amendment. I am frankly disgusted with those that represent this nation and their overall neglect of those that they represent , democrat and republican allke. The F-22 could have easily been kept a vital part of this nations defense industry had congress made the decision to just lift the ban on export to those friendly nations that had shown an interest and the cost to the taxpayer would have been next to nothing. However, in their haste to kill the F-22 the Senate has shown that they care little for the defense of this nation nor do they care for jobs. So spare me the talk of we need strong Unions, because you just killed 95,00o Union Jobs, spare me the talk on critical defense jobs, because you just killed them. and spare me the talk on how much you care about jobs because next election you won't have one.

 

[MaggieMae]

The Obama administration pushed through the $800 billion economic stimulus bill last month because it said the measure would “save or create 3.5 million jobs” including 16,000 in New Hampshire.

But a looming decision by Obama’s Defense Department could make saving some of those jobs harder.

Over the last several weeks, Lockheed Martin has been involved in a massive advertising campaign designed to focus attention on the thousands of jobs associated with the production of the F-22 fighter jet. Nationwide, the F-22 line employs 95,000 workers at 1,000 companies in 44 states.
NH’s 7,000 F-22 Jobs Still at Risk : Now! Hampshire

In a time where the economy is in terrible shape and our defense is stretched to it's limits, now comes this. We pass Stimulus bills all in the name of stimulating employment and we have all seen how well that worked. We see political figures on a daily basis democrat and republican get up there and wax poetic about JOBS JOBS JOBS and then when the time comes to actually save them and actually provide for the defense needs of this nation what do they do? They strike it from the Defense Appropriations bill with McCain/Levin Amendment. I am frankly disgusted with those that represent this nation and their overall neglect of those that they represent , democrat and republican allke. The F-22 could have easily been kept a vital part of this nations defense industry had congress made the decision to just lift the ban on export to those friendly nations that had shown an interest and the cost to the taxpayer would have been next to nothing. However, in their haste to kill the F-22 the Senate has shown that they care little for the defense of this nation nor do they care for jobs. So spare me the talk of we need strong Unions, because you just killed 95,00o Union Jobs, spare me the talk on critical defense jobs, because you just killed them. and spare me the talk on how much you care about jobs because next election you won't have one.

It seems the only ones advocating extending the F-22 funding are those Senators whose own states will be the sole beneficiary of jobs. I trust that there are plenty of reasons to end this program, after the existing contracts are fullfilled for, what, over 200 new F-22's? Which means that there won't be immediate job losses anyway.

White House gains momentum in F-22 fight - David Rogers - POLITICO.com

...Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and the committee’s ranking Republican, Arizona Sen. John McCain, are the chief advocates for striking the F-22 funds. Matched against them and the president are Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.) and Senate Banking Committee Chairman Chris Dodd (D-Conn.), whose home state has a major stake in the production of engines for the costly fighter.

...At the Pentagon, Gates said Monday that claims of job losses as a result of ending F-22 production are a misnomer. Instead, ending the F-22 in favor of ramping up production of the Joint Strike Fighter, he said, will create jobs by fiscal year 2011, “if we don’t drain money away from” the new program.

 

[Navy1960]

Gen. John D.W. Corley, the four-star chief of Air Combat Command at Langley Air Force Base, Va., wrote a letter to Sen. Saxby Chambliss, R-Ga., about the impact of Obama and Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates' decision to limit the number of F-22s in the U.S. inventory to 187.

"In my opinion, a fleet of 187 F-22s puts execution of our current national military strategy at high risk in the near to mid term," Corley wrote in the June 9 correspondence. "To my knowledge, there are no studies that demonstrate that 187 F-22s are adequate to support our national military strategy."

Corley's command organizes, trains and equips the Air Force's squadrons. His letter represents the clearest rebuke yet from within the military of the administration's decision to end production of the F-22 and could give some in Congress pause about ratifying one of the highest-profile proposals in Obama's first defense budget request. There are growing signs that some pivotal lawmakers may be leaning that way

The most senior retired military officer to back President Obama's run for the White House says the president is making a "real mistake" in terminating F-22 production.

Retired Gen. Merrill McPeak, who was the Air Force chief of staff during the 1991 Operation Desert Storm and who credited air power with winning the war, was the first four-star officer to endorse the one-term senator in his presidential campaign. McPeak traveled with Obama to bolster the candidate's commander-in-chief credentials, much to the chagrin of the general's fighter pilot colleagues.

Top Obama Backer Warns Ending F-22 Production Is 'Real Mistake' - Political News - FOXNews.com

WASHINGTON, Feb 17 (Reuters) - The U.S. Air Force has concluded it needs more Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) F-22 Raptor fighter jets than have been ordered so far, but fewer than it previously sought, the service's top uniformed officer said on Tuesday.

Gen. Norton Schwartz, Air Force chief of staff, said he would not dispute a characterization that over the coming three years the service was seeking to add 60 of the premier fighter jets to the 183 now on order, for a total of 243.

The revised request would be for a fleet totaling fewer than 381 Raptors, the previous Air Force goal, Schwartz told reporters, without disclosing the new number.

The Air Force once sought to buy as many as 750 F-22s, which it reckoned cost about $142 million apiece in fiscal 2008, not including development costs.

The revised requirement is "driven by analysis as opposed to some other formulation," Schwartz said. "And I think it will withstand scrutiny."
UPDATE 3-U.S. Air Force says needs more F-22 fighters | Markets | Markets News | Reuters

I would rather Maggie listen to the warfighters on this issue and not some DoD wonk that is an appointee who has zero interest in the warfighter. This is the same DoD that has failed in 5 attempts to bring a Tanker to the inventory and a light helicopter to the Army or cancelled the Presidential helicpoter after spending billions of dollars with zero results but yet that has not stopped them from purchasing more C-130's or C-17's that the Air Force has repeatedly told congress it does not want or need. I find it amazing that the same people would portray the F-35 as good enough for now, since when is providing the tools to defend this nation fall under the catagory of good enough for now? I also find the this two faced attitude by both republicans and democrats on jobs on every bill that comes up and here they have an opportunity to actully save jobs and they kill them. In fact they could have even saved them just by the stroke of a pen and that would have cost this nation nothing in taxpayer dollars and kept a vital asset available if needed. I have come to the conclusion that NO ONE in Washington has the interest of this nation at heart and it further enforces my opinion that in order to effect real change ALL of the incumbants need to be voted out.

 

[Darkwind]

I think this is a mistake. The Raptor along with the the JSF F-35 Lightening II platform would allow for both our Navy and Air Force to retire older third and forth generation aircraft thus offsetting the costs increases to the F-22.

These two platforms would be able to replace not only the Navy's F-18 Hornet inventory by allowing the F-22 to assume the premier Ariel combat role thus free in up the f-35, which has vtol and carrier capabilities, to perform as the strategic bomber and air support roles.

The aircraft that could be retired would be the Marine Harrier, the F-15 and 16 platforms as well as a reduction in the f-18 inventories. I say a reduction because the 18's are as yet, a relatively young platform that has proven to be rugged and enduring.

 

[MaggieMae]

Gen. John D.W. Corley, the four-star chief of Air Combat Command at Langley Air Force Base, Va., wrote a letter to Sen. Saxby Chambliss, R-Ga., about the impact of Obama and Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates' decision to limit the number of F-22s in the U.S. inventory to 187.

"In my opinion, a fleet of 187 F-22s puts execution of our current national military strategy at high risk in the near to mid term," Corley wrote in the June 9 correspondence. "To my knowledge, there are no studies that demonstrate that 187 F-22s are adequate to support our national military strategy."

Corley's command organizes, trains and equips the Air Force's squadrons. His letter represents the clearest rebuke yet from within the military of the administration's decision to end production of the F-22 and could give some in Congress pause about ratifying one of the highest-profile proposals in Obama's first defense budget request. There are growing signs that some pivotal lawmakers may be leaning that way

The most senior retired military officer to back President Obama's run for the White House says the president is making a "real mistake" in terminating F-22 production.

Retired Gen. Merrill McPeak, who was the Air Force chief of staff during the 1991 Operation Desert Storm and who credited air power with winning the war, was the first four-star officer to endorse the one-term senator in his presidential campaign. McPeak traveled with Obama to bolster the candidate's commander-in-chief credentials, much to the chagrin of the general's fighter pilot colleagues.

Top Obama Backer Warns Ending F-22 Production Is 'Real Mistake' - Political News - FOXNews.com

WASHINGTON, Feb 17 (Reuters) - The U.S. Air Force has concluded it needs more Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) F-22 Raptor fighter jets than have been ordered so far, but fewer than it previously sought, the service's top uniformed officer said on Tuesday.

Gen. Norton Schwartz, Air Force chief of staff, said he would not dispute a characterization that over the coming three years the service was seeking to add 60 of the premier fighter jets to the 183 now on order, for a total of 243.

The revised request would be for a fleet totaling fewer than 381 Raptors, the previous Air Force goal, Schwartz told reporters, without disclosing the new number.

The Air Force once sought to buy as many as 750 F-22s, which it reckoned cost about $142 million apiece in fiscal 2008, not including development costs.

The revised requirement is "driven by analysis as opposed to some other formulation," Schwartz said. "And I think it will withstand scrutiny."
UPDATE 3-U.S. Air Force says needs more F-22 fighters | Markets | Markets News | Reuters

I would rather Maggie listen to the warfighters on this issue and not some DoD wonk that is an appointee who has zero interest in the warfighter. This is the same DoD that has failed in 5 attempts to bring a Tanker to the inventory and a light helicopter to the Army or cancelled the Presidential helicpoter after spending billions of dollars with zero results but yet that has not stopped them from purchasing more C-130's or C-17's that the Air Force has repeatedly told congress it does not want or need. I find it amazing that the same people would portray the F-35 as good enough for now, since when is providing the tools to defend this nation fall under the catagory of good enough for now? I also find the this two faced attitude by both republicans and democrats on jobs on every bill that comes up and here they have an opportunity to actully save jobs and they kill them. In fact they could have even saved them just by the stroke of a pen and that would have cost this nation nothing in taxpayer dollars and kept a vital asset available if needed. I have come to the conclusion that NO ONE in Washington has the interest of this nation at heart and it further enforces my opinion that in order to effect real change ALL of the incumbants need to be voted out.

So how many cold war tools should we continue to fund, even though the new enemy bears no resemblance to the old one (the Soviets)?? It's not as though we're dismantling the entire fleet. There simply is NOT enough money in the defense budget to do it all. How come you think the Pentagon should get everything it desires, yet Americans wanting to stay healthy must fight for every nickel?

 

[MaggieMae]

"The reality is we are fighting two wars, in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the F-22 has not performed a single mission in either theater. So it is principally for use against a near peer in a conflict, and I think we all know who that is," Gates said. "And looking at what I regard as the level of risk of conflict with one of those near peers over the next four or five years until the Joint Strike Fighter comes along, I think that something along the lines of 183 is a reasonable buy."
--Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates, addressing Congress in February

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

The Obama administration pushed through the $800 billion economic stimulus bill last month because it said the measure would “save or create 3.5 million jobs” including 16,000 in New Hampshire.

But a looming decision by Obama’s Defense Department could make saving some of those jobs harder.

Over the last several weeks, Lockheed Martin has been involved in a massive advertising campaign designed to focus attention on the thousands of jobs associated with the production of the F-22 fighter jet. Nationwide, the F-22 line employs 95,000 workers at 1,000 companies in 44 states.
NH’s 7,000 F-22 Jobs Still at Risk : Now! Hampshire

In a time where the economy is in terrible shape and our defense is stretched to it's limits, now comes this. We pass Stimulus bills all in the name of stimulating employment and we have all seen how well that worked. We see political figures on a daily basis democrat and republican get up there and wax poetic about JOBS JOBS JOBS and then when the time comes to actually save them and actually provide for the defense needs of this nation what do they do? They strike it from the Defense Appropriations bill with McCain/Levin Amendment. I am frankly disgusted with those that represent this nation and their overall neglect of those that they represent , democrat and republican allke. The F-22 could have easily been kept a vital part of this nations defense industry had congress made the decision to just lift the ban on export to those friendly nations that had shown an interest and the cost to the taxpayer would have been next to nothing. However, in their haste to kill the F-22 the Senate has shown that they care little for the defense of this nation nor do they care for jobs. So spare me the talk of we need strong Unions, because you just killed 95,00o Union Jobs, spare me the talk on critical defense jobs, because you just killed them. and spare me the talk on how much you care about jobs because next election you won't have one.

ROFLMNAO... Navy... you aren't working under the impression that these people actually give a fuck about US Jobs do you?

Man sooner or later you've GOT to understand that their purpose is to SUBVERT THE VIABILITY OF THIS NATION.

Buy dropping funding for the F22... they strike at national defense AND US Manufacturing... when the people who depend upon that contract get fired, they'll be dependent upon THE SUBVERSIVES... They'll NEED GOVERNMENT HEALTHCARE... and those who depend upon you, aren't likely to vote against you or call and complain to legislators who are voting to give you MORE POWER.

There's nothing complicated about this... it's just not a pleasent thing to consider.

 

[MaggieMae]

The Obama administration pushed through the $800 billion economic stimulus bill last month because it said the measure would “save or create 3.5 million jobs” including 16,000 in New Hampshire.

But a looming decision by Obama’s Defense Department could make saving some of those jobs harder.

Over the last several weeks, Lockheed Martin has been involved in a massive advertising campaign designed to focus attention on the thousands of jobs associated with the production of the F-22 fighter jet. Nationwide, the F-22 line employs 95,000 workers at 1,000 companies in 44 states.
NH’s 7,000 F-22 Jobs Still at Risk : Now! Hampshire

In a time where the economy is in terrible shape and our defense is stretched to it's limits, now comes this. We pass Stimulus bills all in the name of stimulating employment and we have all seen how well that worked. We see political figures on a daily basis democrat and republican get up there and wax poetic about JOBS JOBS JOBS and then when the time comes to actually save them and actually provide for the defense needs of this nation what do they do? They strike it from the Defense Appropriations bill with McCain/Levin Amendment. I am frankly disgusted with those that represent this nation and their overall neglect of those that they represent , democrat and republican allke. The F-22 could have easily been kept a vital part of this nations defense industry had congress made the decision to just lift the ban on export to those friendly nations that had shown an interest and the cost to the taxpayer would have been next to nothing. However, in their haste to kill the F-22 the Senate has shown that they care little for the defense of this nation nor do they care for jobs. So spare me the talk of we need strong Unions, because you just killed 95,00o Union Jobs, spare me the talk on critical defense jobs, because you just killed them. and spare me the talk on how much you care about jobs because next election you won't have one.

ROFLMNAO... Navy... you aren't working under the impression that these people actually give a fuck about US Jobs do you?

Man sooner or later you've GOT to understand that their purpose is to SUBVERT THE VIABILITY OF THIS NATION.

Buy dropping funding for the F22... they strike at national defense AND US Manufacturing... when the people who depend upon that contract get fired, they'll be dependent upon THE SUBVERSIVES... They'll NEED GOVERNMENT HEALTHCARE... and those who depend upon you, aren't likely to vote against you or call and complain to legislators who are voting to give you MORE POWER.

There's nothing complicated about this... it's just not a pleasent thing to consider.

You're fucking scary.

 

[Navy1960]

The F-15 Eagle has a perfect combat record of 101 victories and zero defeats. F-15s downed four Mig-29 fighters during the recent Balkan conflict and 33 of the 35 fixed-wing aircraft Iraq lost in air combat during Operation Desert Storm. During the Balkan conflict, the F-15E was the only fighter able to attack ground targets around the clock, in all weather conditions....
Air-Attack.com :: F-15 Eagle Factsheet

BUENOS AIRES, Argentina, May 17 (RIA Novosti, Yury Nikolayev) - Venezuela is considering replacing its contingent of U.S.-built F-16 multi-role fighters with Russian Su-35s, a high ranking Venezuelan general said.

"We are considering procurement of Russia's Su-35 fighter aircraft to replace F-16s, after the United States banned weapons exports to Venezuela," Venezuelan General Staff official General Alberto Muller Rojas said. "At the moment the Su-35 is world's best multi-role fighter."

The United States announced a ban on arms sales to Venezuela May 15. The U.S. State Department accused the South American country of having an intelligence-sharing relationship with Iran and Cuba, both of which the U.S. says are state sponsors of terrorism.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has accused the United States of breaching an agreement to supply parts for Venezuela's F-16s.

Venezuela looking to swap U.S. F-16 fighters for Russian Su-35s | Top Russian news and analysis online | 'RIA Novosti' newswire

Underlying the proposal is the fact that age and OPTEMPO are wearing out the F/A-18Ds. There is already a projected three-and-a-half-squadron shortfall in the Marine fighter inventory lasting from 2009 until 2014, when JSFs - the only new fighters in Marine planning - are due to replace them. But unless something is done to extend the life of the Ds, says Beisbier, any slippage in JSF will leave the Marines with "little choice but to decommission four more F/A-18D squadrons." Ouch.

The same situation is emerging in Australia, where there are reports that - if there is a further slip in the JSF program - the country may order more Super Hornets, beyond the 24 jets already on order, possibly as part of a defense review to be announced around the end of the year. In Australia's case, if the JSF slips, the choice is to add to the Super Hornet buy (with EA-18G Growlers, Super Hornets or both) or to attempt more life-extension on the classic Hornets. See these notes from Eric Palmer
Ares Homepage

The federal opposition has dismissed new doubts about the capacity of the multi-billion dollar Joint Strike Fighter to perform against jets used by Russia and China.

The JSF jets, for which Australia is likely to pay $16 billion, were comprehensively beaten in highly classified simulated dogfights against Russian-built Sukhoi fighter aircraft, it has been reported.

The war games, conducted at Hawaii's Hickam airbase last month, were witnessed by at least four RAAF personnel and a member of Australia's peak military spy agency, the Defence Intelligence Organisation, The West Australian said.

Opposition defence spokesman Nick Minchin said he was taking "with a grain of salt" the validity of the report.

Australia's fighter jets 'clubbed' by Russians - National - BrisbaneTimes


Maggie.. Gates is an appointee and I could care less what his opinion is on the number needed by the Air Force. You remember this is the same DoD that has spent over 71 billion dollars on a helicopter for the President and cancelled it at an additional cost of 43 billion dollar and receieved exactly nothing for it. So again, I could care less what Gates assesment is. US Air Force has stated the number needed to fill the mission and that number is for 60 additional aircraft. Further, this talk of "well the cold war is over" so we don't need cold war aircraft is made by those who have zero idea of what they are talking about. Air Superiority and the need for it does not stop with the end of a regime, further, Russia as I have shown has developed in the SU-35/37 a very capable aircraft that is able in most ciscumstances to defeat the F-35 in several envelopes. They also are as of this moment clearly exporting this aircraft to all buyers. China is also develping an aircraft along the lines of the F-22 that will defeat the F-35. So when the Air Force makes it known that they require the worlds premire fighter then our Govt. should provide it to them. In addition the the jobs I mentioned above will just mean that many more people in the unemployment line that I believe our Govt. had the chance to keep from joining. These kinds of jobs are not the kind that you just retrain someone if you want to build another aircraft they are highly specialized and take in some cases years to learn. Again, the case of the F-22 is just a sign of an even bigger issue and that is a congress that has little interest in the welfare of this nation and more interest in it's own welfare. I have contacted John McCains office to let him know he will not get my support for re-election and to inform him that congress should lift the export ban on the F-22 to allow nations like Aurtralia to buy this amazing aircraft and keep these good people in their jobs.

 

[Chris]

The F-22 was an incredible waste of money.

Thank God they killed it.

 

[Lycurgus]

The Obama administration pushed through the $800 billion economic stimulus bill last month because it said the measure would “save or create 3.5 million jobs” including 16,000 in New Hampshire.

But a looming decision by Obama’s Defense Department could make saving some of those jobs harder.

Over the last several weeks, Lockheed Martin has been involved in a massive advertising campaign designed to focus attention on the thousands of jobs associated with the production of the F-22 fighter jet. Nationwide, the F-22 line employs 95,000 workers at 1,000 companies in 44 states.
NH’s 7,000 F-22 Jobs Still at Risk : Now! Hampshire

In a time where the economy is in terrible shape and our defense is stretched to it's limits, now comes this. We pass Stimulus bills all in the name of stimulating employment and we have all seen how well that worked. We see political figures on a daily basis democrat and republican get up there and wax poetic about JOBS JOBS JOBS and then when the time comes to actually save them and actually provide for the defense needs of this nation what do they do? They strike it from the Defense Appropriations bill with McCain/Levin Amendment. I am frankly disgusted with those that represent this nation and their overall neglect of those that they represent , democrat and republican allke. The F-22 could have easily been kept a vital part of this nations defense industry had congress made the decision to just lift the ban on export to those friendly nations that had shown an interest and the cost to the taxpayer would have been next to nothing. However, in their haste to kill the F-22 the Senate has shown that they care little for the defense of this nation nor do they care for jobs. So spare me the talk of we need strong Unions, because you just killed 95,00o Union Jobs, spare me the talk on critical defense jobs, because you just killed them. and spare me the talk on how much you care about jobs because next election you won't have one.

The Mayor of Columbus, Ohio (Michael Coleman) thanked Obama for the stimulus as he claimed it provided the 50 police academy graduates jobs with the Columbus police department.

Now the mayor says if the citizens do not pass a city income tax increase, then the city will have to lay off over 200 police officers and a fair number of fire department employee's.

Gee, what happened to the 50 who were saved by the stimulus????

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

The Obama administration pushed through the $800 billion economic stimulus bill last month because it said the measure would “save or create 3.5 million jobs” including 16,000 in New Hampshire.

But a looming decision by Obama’s Defense Department could make saving some of those jobs harder.

Over the last several weeks, Lockheed Martin has been involved in a massive advertising campaign designed to focus attention on the thousands of jobs associated with the production of the F-22 fighter jet. Nationwide, the F-22 line employs 95,000 workers at 1,000 companies in 44 states.
NH’s 7,000 F-22 Jobs Still at Risk : Now! Hampshire

In a time where the economy is in terrible shape and our defense is stretched to it's limits, now comes this. We pass Stimulus bills all in the name of stimulating employment and we have all seen how well that worked. We see political figures on a daily basis democrat and republican get up there and wax poetic about JOBS JOBS JOBS and then when the time comes to actually save them and actually provide for the defense needs of this nation what do they do? They strike it from the Defense Appropriations bill with McCain/Levin Amendment. I am frankly disgusted with those that represent this nation and their overall neglect of those that they represent , democrat and republican allke. The F-22 could have easily been kept a vital part of this nations defense industry had congress made the decision to just lift the ban on export to those friendly nations that had shown an interest and the cost to the taxpayer would have been next to nothing. However, in their haste to kill the F-22 the Senate has shown that they care little for the defense of this nation nor do they care for jobs. So spare me the talk of we need strong Unions, because you just killed 95,00o Union Jobs, spare me the talk on critical defense jobs, because you just killed them. and spare me the talk on how much you care about jobs because next election you won't have one.

ROFLMNAO... Navy... you aren't working under the impression that these people actually give a fuck about US Jobs do you?

Man sooner or later you've GOT to understand that their purpose is to SUBVERT THE VIABILITY OF THIS NATION.

Buy dropping funding for the F22... they strike at national defense AND US Manufacturing... when the people who depend upon that contract get fired, they'll be dependent upon THE SUBVERSIVES... They'll NEED GOVERNMENT HEALTHCARE... and those who depend upon you, aren't likely to vote against you or call and complain to legislators who are voting to give you MORE POWER.

There's nothing complicated about this... it's just not a pleasent thing to consider.

You're fucking scary.

Yeah... It's all me.

I'm the scary one...

Not the Administration that could; who came into power on the premise of HOPE AND CHANGE for fiscal responsibility that went to work upon arrival spending the US into bankruptcy; part and parcel of which was to fund the largest Islamic terrorist group on earth with a billion dollars and cutting US military spending; and all when the US is at war with Islamic terrorists.

Now I suppose as long as the US only fights litle groups of insane scrappers in back-water deserts, the F22 is no major player in the US arsenal...

But given that such is always subject to change and with very little notice; and given that this Administration is SO CLEARLY, at BEST, sympathetic to the communists, which would be the next most likely suspect to attacking the US; snaking our best air superiority aircraft; one designed to crush the airforces of THAT ENEMY... would readily be a function of someone intent on reducing the US military's means to effectively combat that threat...

But your response truly does demonstrate why you people need to be stripped of any means to contribute to US Governance... You're frieghtened by the speech which points out the obvious and not the subversion which plays directly into the interests of those most likely to attack us.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

The F-22 was an incredible waste of money.

Thank God they killed it.

Says the idiot that stands against the ownership of a $500 PERSONAL SIDE-ARM!

ROFL...

Leftists...

 

[Navy1960]

THe F-22 is the world premire air to air fighter and is light years ahead of it's competetion in every single area of performance. To make a blanket statement that the F-22 is a waste of money when the US Military Aviation combat inventory consists of currently aircraft who's designs date back to the 70's as is the case with the F-16 and the F-15 as well as the F-18. When you talk about waste in the DoD you need to focus your anger on programs where billions of dollars are spent and then congress descides thats it's no longer needed and decides to cancel the program and in some cases it costs more to shut the program down than actually produce whats purchased. as was the case with the Presidential Helicopter and the comanche. In fact the US Air Force is flying a tanker that first flew in the 50's and a bomber who's design that dates back to the 40's. This military hardware does not have an endless life span and this attitude of "it's a waste of money" or "what we have is good enough" puts peoples lives in danger and not only that, it costs many and the economic lives of American workers, who represent in a lot of cases the last representation of of the American Industrial base. These are Union workers in a lot of cases and I find it somewhat of a contradiction to run to the aide of any legislation that supports jobs for union workers and then turn around and advocate a bill that would put out of work tens of thousands of them. The F-22 is as I have in many many posts presented without equal in air superiority and those who believe that somehow this type of aircraft is no longer needed have not been paying much attention to the engagements this nation has been involved in the last 25 years. As correctly pointed out, the F-22 represents a very minor part of the overall inventory and the costs savings that congress claims they will save will be eaten up by the additional 168 billion dollars that will be added to the costs of this because of a prior agreement with the DoD to cover closing costs. In short it would be a whole lot cheaper to actually build them, and keept these people working. So what you see here is a presonal preference on the part of those who wish to rid the Air Force of the F-22 for the F-35.

 

[Darkwind]

"The reality is we are fighting two wars, in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the F-22 has not performed a single mission in either theater. So it is principally for use against a near peer in a conflict, and I think we all know who that is," Gates said. "And looking at what I regard as the level of risk of conflict with one of those near peers over the next four or five years until the Joint Strike Fighter comes along, I think that something along the lines of 183 is a reasonable buy."
--Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates, addressing Congress in February

Nice cherry pick there. The purpose of both 5th generation aircraft is to have the ability to penetrate those nations that have sophisticated radar enhanced ground to air defense missles. Since neither Iraq or Afghanistan have this capability there is little need for their deployment.

Where they will be useful is in those nations where their stealth technology will give them (and us) air superiority.

 

[Navy1960]

I have to laugh at the "it's never been in combat one" The F-22 is is just now being brought online and into the Air Force inventory. It's not a matter of the F-22 not being used in combat because it lacks a mission, in fact the F-15 another Air superiorty fighter has flown thousands of sorties in both Iraq and Afghanistan. The Defense Department has not deployed it yet because, the Air Force is still training with it, So give me a break...

LANGLEY AIR FORCE BASE, Va. -- Air Combat Command's F-22 Raptor Demonstration Team successfully completed the first ever trans-Atlantic deployment for the F-22 Raptor July 15.

Three F-22 Raptors, piloted by Capt. Chris Bergtholdt, 1st Operations Support Squadron, Capt. Leo Lemelson and Capt. Michael Trujillo, 27th Fighter Squadron, returned to Langley from Royal Air Force Fairford, England, to complete the deployment.

A KC-10 Extender from the 70th Air Refueling Squadron of Travis Air Force Base refueled the aircraft in route and carried the remaining crew members of the team.

The F-22 Demo Team deployed to England to participate in the 2008 Royal International Air Tattoo and the Farnborough International air show.


It's first ever Trans-Atlantic flight was just last year, so this talk about combat deployment doesn't hold any sway.

Vocus/PRWEB ) January 22, 2009 -- The U.S. Air Force has deployed two squadrons of F-22 Raptors to the Pacific as part of on-going rotations of forces to ensure security and stability throughout the region.


F-22 over Japan
Twelve Raptors deployed from Elmendorf Air Force Base, Alaska, arrived at Andersen Air Force Base, Guam, Jan. 18, 2009. The week prior, twelve Raptors from Langley Air Force Base, Va., began arriving at Kadena Air Base, Japan. Both squadrons will be deployed to the Pacific for three months and will spend that time conducting air combat training with Air Force and other U.S. military assets in the region.

F-22s are the Air Force's newest and most advanced fighter, combining stealth, maneuverability, supercruise capability and superior avionics to provide the U.S. with unmatched air dominance.


That was this past Jan. and everyone here does know that there is a little nation in the Pacific called North Korea that the US has been having a little difficulty with lately yes?

 

[MaggieMae]

The F-15 Eagle has a perfect combat record of 101 victories and zero defeats. F-15s downed four Mig-29 fighters during the recent Balkan conflict and 33 of the 35 fixed-wing aircraft Iraq lost in air combat during Operation Desert Storm. During the Balkan conflict, the F-15E was the only fighter able to attack ground targets around the clock, in all weather conditions....
Air-Attack.com :: F-15 Eagle Factsheet

BUENOS AIRES, Argentina, May 17 (RIA Novosti, Yury Nikolayev) - Venezuela is considering replacing its contingent of U.S.-built F-16 multi-role fighters with Russian Su-35s, a high ranking Venezuelan general said.

"We are considering procurement of Russia's Su-35 fighter aircraft to replace F-16s, after the United States banned weapons exports to Venezuela," Venezuelan General Staff official General Alberto Muller Rojas said. "At the moment the Su-35 is world's best multi-role fighter."

The United States announced a ban on arms sales to Venezuela May 15. The U.S. State Department accused the South American country of having an intelligence-sharing relationship with Iran and Cuba, both of which the U.S. says are state sponsors of terrorism.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has accused the United States of breaching an agreement to supply parts for Venezuela's F-16s.

Venezuela looking to swap U.S. F-16 fighters for Russian Su-35s | Top Russian news and analysis online | 'RIA Novosti' newswire

Underlying the proposal is the fact that age and OPTEMPO are wearing out the F/A-18Ds. There is already a projected three-and-a-half-squadron shortfall in the Marine fighter inventory lasting from 2009 until 2014, when JSFs - the only new fighters in Marine planning - are due to replace them. But unless something is done to extend the life of the Ds, says Beisbier, any slippage in JSF will leave the Marines with "little choice but to decommission four more F/A-18D squadrons." Ouch.

The same situation is emerging in Australia, where there are reports that - if there is a further slip in the JSF program - the country may order more Super Hornets, beyond the 24 jets already on order, possibly as part of a defense review to be announced around the end of the year. In Australia's case, if the JSF slips, the choice is to add to the Super Hornet buy (with EA-18G Growlers, Super Hornets or both) or to attempt more life-extension on the classic Hornets. See these notes from Eric Palmer
Ares Homepage

The federal opposition has dismissed new doubts about the capacity of the multi-billion dollar Joint Strike Fighter to perform against jets used by Russia and China.

The JSF jets, for which Australia is likely to pay $16 billion, were comprehensively beaten in highly classified simulated dogfights against Russian-built Sukhoi fighter aircraft, it has been reported.

The war games, conducted at Hawaii's Hickam airbase last month, were witnessed by at least four RAAF personnel and a member of Australia's peak military spy agency, the Defence Intelligence Organisation, The West Australian said.

Opposition defence spokesman Nick Minchin said he was taking "with a grain of salt" the validity of the report.

Australia's fighter jets 'clubbed' by Russians - National - BrisbaneTimes


Maggie.. Gates is an appointee and I could care less what his opinion is on the number needed by the Air Force. You remember this is the same DoD that has spent over 71 billion dollars on a helicopter for the President and cancelled it at an additional cost of 43 billion dollar and receieved exactly nothing for it. So again, I could care less what Gates assesment is. US Air Force has stated the number needed to fill the mission and that number is for 60 additional aircraft. Further, this talk of "well the cold war is over" so we don't need cold war aircraft is made by those who have zero idea of what they are talking about. Air Superiority and the need for it does not stop with the end of a regime, further, Russia as I have shown has developed in the SU-35/37 a very capable aircraft that is able in most ciscumstances to defeat the F-35 in several envelopes. They also are as of this moment clearly exporting this aircraft to all buyers. China is also develping an aircraft along the lines of the F-22 that will defeat the F-35. So when the Air Force makes it known that they require the worlds premire fighter then our Govt. should provide it to them. In addition the the jobs I mentioned above will just mean that many more people in the unemployment line that I believe our Govt. had the chance to keep from joining. These kinds of jobs are not the kind that you just retrain someone if you want to build another aircraft they are highly specialized and take in some cases years to learn. Again, the case of the F-22 is just a sign of an even bigger issue and that is a congress that has little interest in the welfare of this nation and more interest in it's own welfare. I have contacted John McCains office to let him know he will not get my support for re-election and to inform him that congress should lift the export ban on the F-22 to allow nations like Aurtralia to buy this amazing aircraft and keep these good people in their jobs.

You're just incapable of discussing anything without your ideology getting in the way. The problem is NOT one of no interest in protecting this nation, but one of MONEY!!!! We cannot do EVERYTHING--which simply means that some of the old costly relics (or soon to be relics) need to go bye bye in order to make room for new, more functional technology. How many contracts does Lockheed need in order to keep all its employees? Looks like this one may prove to be more lucrative than some ol' airplane.

Strike-Anywhere Missile Plan Could Get Hypersonic Boost | Danger Room | Wired.com

The Department of Defense budget takes up two-thirds of the overall annual budget, when all of the related costs from other agencies (like the VA) are taken into consideration. It seems the conservative right wants carte blanche funding for DoD but Heaven Forbid some domestic program should require more money.

 

[MaggieMae]

The Obama administration pushed through the $800 billion economic stimulus bill last month because it said the measure would “save or create 3.5 million jobs” including 16,000 in New Hampshire.

But a looming decision by Obama’s Defense Department could make saving some of those jobs harder.

Over the last several weeks, Lockheed Martin has been involved in a massive advertising campaign designed to focus attention on the thousands of jobs associated with the production of the F-22 fighter jet. Nationwide, the F-22 line employs 95,000 workers at 1,000 companies in 44 states.
NH’s 7,000 F-22 Jobs Still at Risk : Now! Hampshire

In a time where the economy is in terrible shape and our defense is stretched to it's limits, now comes this. We pass Stimulus bills all in the name of stimulating employment and we have all seen how well that worked. We see political figures on a daily basis democrat and republican get up there and wax poetic about JOBS JOBS JOBS and then when the time comes to actually save them and actually provide for the defense needs of this nation what do they do? They strike it from the Defense Appropriations bill with McCain/Levin Amendment. I am frankly disgusted with those that represent this nation and their overall neglect of those that they represent , democrat and republican allke. The F-22 could have easily been kept a vital part of this nations defense industry had congress made the decision to just lift the ban on export to those friendly nations that had shown an interest and the cost to the taxpayer would have been next to nothing. However, in their haste to kill the F-22 the Senate has shown that they care little for the defense of this nation nor do they care for jobs. So spare me the talk of we need strong Unions, because you just killed 95,00o Union Jobs, spare me the talk on critical defense jobs, because you just killed them. and spare me the talk on how much you care about jobs because next election you won't have one.

The Mayor of Columbus, Ohio (Michael Coleman) thanked Obama for the stimulus as he claimed it provided the 50 police academy graduates jobs with the Columbus police department.

Now the mayor says if the citizens do not pass a city income tax increase, then the city will have to lay off over 200 police officers and a fair number of fire department employee's.

Gee, what happened to the 50 who were saved by the stimulus????

Well gee, why don't you check it out for us instead of just giving us half the story?

 

[MaggieMae]

ROFLMNAO... Navy... you aren't working under the impression that these people actually give a fuck about US Jobs do you?

Man sooner or later you've GOT to understand that their purpose is to SUBVERT THE VIABILITY OF THIS NATION.

Buy dropping funding for the F22... they strike at national defense AND US Manufacturing... when the people who depend upon that contract get fired, they'll be dependent upon THE SUBVERSIVES... They'll NEED GOVERNMENT HEALTHCARE... and those who depend upon you, aren't likely to vote against you or call and complain to legislators who are voting to give you MORE POWER.

There's nothing complicated about this... it's just not a pleasent thing to consider.

You're fucking scary.

Yeah... It's all me.

I'm the scary one...

Not the Administration that could; who came into power on the premise of HOPE AND CHANGE for fiscal responsibility that went to work upon arrival spending the US into bankruptcy; part and parcel of which was to fund the largest Islamic terrorist group on earth with a billion dollars and cutting US military spending; and all when the US is at war with Islamic terrorists.

Now I suppose as long as the US only fights litle groups of insane scrappers in back-water deserts, the F22 is no major player in the US arsenal...

But given that such is always subject to change and with very little notice; and given that this Administration is SO CLEARLY, at BEST, sympathetic to the communists, which would be the next most likely suspect to attacking the US; snaking our best air superiority aircraft; one designed to crush the airforces of THAT ENEMY... would readily be a function of someone intent on reducing the US military's means to effectively combat that threat...

But your response truly does demonstrate why you people need to be stripped of any means to contribute to US Governance... You're frieghtened by the speech which points out the obvious and not the subversion which plays directly into the interests of those most likely to attack us.

What speech? Who is likely to attack us? Russia? China? Yeah, sure... North Korea? With what? Plop plop fizz fizz modified SCUDS?

 

[MaggieMae]

"The reality is we are fighting two wars, in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the F-22 has not performed a single mission in either theater. So it is principally for use against a near peer in a conflict, and I think we all know who that is," Gates said. "And looking at what I regard as the level of risk of conflict with one of those near peers over the next four or five years until the Joint Strike Fighter comes along, I think that something along the lines of 183 is a reasonable buy."
--Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates, addressing Congress in February

Nice cherry pick there. The purpose of both 5th generation aircraft is to have the ability to penetrate those nations that have sophisticated radar enhanced ground to air defense missles. Since neither Iraq or Afghanistan have this capability there is little need for their deployment.

Where they will be useful is in those nations where their stealth technology will give them (and us) air superiority.

Again, you too are assuming that countries with stealth technology (Russia, China) have any interest at all in attacking the United States. Secretary Gates has a career in military intelligence, so I would trust HIM on this matter long before I would some senator just trying to protect his voting flock. As evidenced by the attacks of 911, it is no longer the obvious "enemy" that is the danger to this country, it's the sneaky bastards who could take out half the country with a coordinated effort that no F-22 could stop.