Spanish Socialists May Pull Troops from Iraq

[jimnyc]

I think any immediate pull-out of Iraq is a bad decision. Whether people agreed with the decision or not doesn't really matter anymore. This action and Kerry's equivalent threat could give disastrous results.

MADRID (Reuters) - Spain's incoming leader Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero said Monday he would probably pull Madrid's troops out of the "disastrous" occupation of Iraq (news - web sites), in a major swing from his predecessor's pro-American foreign policy.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040315/ts_nm/spain_dc_10

 

[DKSuddeth]

One of the things about an elected government is that they should be doing the peoples will, not something that that individual feels is moral, just, or correct.

Thats something that isn't stressed enough in our history, partly because its usually done with greed attached to it.

If the majority of spains populace wants its government to pull out of Iraq then that is something that spain should do. Likewise, if a majority of americans feel that our military should pull out of iraq then I think thats something that should be done as well.

Our elected leaders forget that they aren't put in office to think for us, but to execute the wishes of its people.

 

[lilcountriegal]

Terrorism 1

Peace 0


Unfortunately, this just shows that the threat and fear of terrorism will influence people. The only thing this will do is convince terrorists that, by innocent killing, they can get what they want.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by lilcountriegal
Terrorism 1

Peace 0


Unfortunately, this just shows that the threat and fear of terrorism will influence people. The only thing this will do is convince terrorists that, by innocent killing, they can get what they want.

I wouldn't say that peace is scoreless at this point. Theres still SOME good that we've put in the win column, wouldn't you say?

 

[MtnBiker]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
Our elected leaders forget that they aren't put in office to think for us, but to execute the wishes of its people.

Partial true, elected leaders are also elected to lead and make decisions. We give them so many years in office before their term is put to another election. Its at that time we can vote for someone we believe will do a better job, or retain the current office holder to continue doing his job. There is not a vote or poll taken on every action the government takes. The checks and balances with congress and the judiciary play into those actions as well.

 

[DKSuddeth]

very true, thank you.

 

[lilcountriegal]

wouldn't say that peace is scoreless at this point

I meant it more along the line that the terrorists win in the instance of Spain. They wanted Spain out of Iraq so they set off numerous bombs, kill hundred of people, and injure a thousand more to prove their point.

What is their punishment? Spain is pulling its troops out of Iraq.

I think this is a bad move. This will just embolden the terrorists. What other country who has troops in Iraq will be next?

One of the things about an elected government is that they should be doing the peoples will, not something that that individual feels is moral, just, or correct.

Whereas I agree with this statement, DK, I also think that an elected government is responsible for doing what's best for the people. In Spain's case, unfortunately, I do not believe that is what the government did.

 

[MtnBiker]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
very true, thank you.

You know that's what is likeable about you DK, we can have a discussion disagreeing at times and agreeing at other times without making it personal. Thanks man.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by MtnBiker
You know that's what is likeable about you DK, we can have a discussion disagreeing at times and agreeing at other times without making it personal. Thanks man.

Likewise, Good Sir!!!

 

[Johnney]

Kinda makes you sick.
you guys are right, take a general concenses(SP?) and see what the populace wants. dont go blindly into something like that.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
One of the things about an elected government is that they should be doing the peoples will, not something that that individual feels is moral, just, or correct.

Thats something that isn't stressed enough in our history, partly because its usually done with greed attached to it.

If the majority of spains populace wants its government to pull out of Iraq then that is something that spain should do. Likewise, if a majority of americans feel that our military should pull out of iraq then I think thats something that should be done as well.

Our elected leaders forget that they aren't put in office to think for us, but to execute the wishes of its people.

This is the reason America is a constitutional republic with democratically elected leaders and not a direct democracy. A government's job is to protect it's citizens, even if the citizenry is too wacked out on socialist dogma and america hating to understand the means through which that security is established. Mob rule and direct referendum on issues of national security is a bad idea.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Mob rule and direct referendum on issues of national security is a bad idea.

most definitely true. Its been well known throughout history that a person is smart, people are dumb, panicky, and given over to emotional reactions that invariably prove detrimental to society.

I wouldn't necessarily include the 'socialist dogma' in the mix because the factors are different in this climate.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
most definitely true. Its been well known throughout history that a person is smart, people are dumb, panicky, and given over to emotional reactions than invariably prove detrimental to society.

I wouldn't necessarily include the 'socialist dogma' in the mix because the factors are different in this climate.

Maybe they're afraid of getting too far separated from france and germany, their EU, socialist overlords.

 

[William Joyce]

Even socialists occasionally get it right. The deaths in Madrid were payback for Spain joining the U.S. in the fight for Zionism. The Spanish see this, and have acted appropriately, and as a sovereign nation should. Me, I'd prefer to see Franco back, but telling the Zionists to take a hike ain't so bad.

 

[Isaac Brock]

One interesting thing I thought about the whole changing of the guard in Spain is that there democracy works pretty well there. I mean, take your side on the war in Iraq, but at least the spanish parties took a very strong stand either way. Popular vote successfully changed that status quo. Personally, i find that a rarer and rarer notion in this day in age. Certainly in Canada and some other European Union countries.

Heck I think if Kerry got in he wouldn't even withdraw the troops. The point is that most western governments would rather would the fine line trying to garner the most public opinion. However in Spain, the difference was black and white. Democracy worked.

 

[nbdysfu]

Originally posted by Isaac Brock
Democracy worked.

Agreed. It worked for Neville. Only, for the sake of the Spanish people, I hope it was a good choice.

 

[nbdysfu]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/03/15/spain.invest/index.html

In the wake of the bombings, Spanish Interior Minister Angel Acebes announced Monday that a European Union anti-terrorist conference will be held Friday in Madrid. (Full story)

CNN also has obtained a document posted on an Internet message board analysts believe is used by al Qaeda and its sympathizers that spells out the terrorist group's plan to separate Spain from the U.S.-led coalition on Iraq.

The strategy spelled out in the document, posted last December on the Internet, calls for the use of terrorism to drive Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar's Popular Party from power and replace it with the Socialists.

That was expected to drive a wedge between Washington and Madrid and result in the withdrawal of Spanish military forces from Iraq.

"We think the Spanish government will not stand more than two blows, or three at the most, before it will be forced to withdraw because of the public pressure on it," the document says.

"If its forces remain after these blows, the victory of the Socialist Party will be almost guaranteed -- and the withdrawal of Spanish forces will be on its campaign manifesto."

They had a plan and it worked quite well.

v

 

[nbdysfu]

I applaud the spanish people for helping Al Queda participate in democracy! Without them Al Queda's voice would have gone unnoticed.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Bad. Bad decision.