Someone please explain the logic of what God is doing because I don't get it

[JoeB131]

Not at that time. Do the research. As a reporter, I did, and I wanted that out as well. No one would touch that aspect of what was going on in society and being swept under the rug. Two things about this bothered me from the reporting end: The incomplete coverage and the gleefulness of which some went after the one organization. Both society and news reporting deserved better.

Oh, noes, you are going into QAnon territory here.

What God knows has nothing to do with the human psyche, ego, and conscience. The Church walks in the steps of Jesus, and Jesus ministry centered around telling everyone, "Sins are forgiven." Hearing that made all the difference to people, and so it continues to this day.

Jesus never existed.
The Church is about power and enriching itself. Making people go to church, selling indulgences (confessions are just a dried up version of that) and increasing their own power has always been the goal.

No worries. Jesus noted that the way is narrow and few find it. The difference between you and a billion Catholics is that for many the search and the learning continues.

The difference between me and a billion Catholics is that I see through the scam and did so at an early age.

 

[JoeB131]

I don't have to be told that the 1,000 years of the Holy Roman Church had the extermination of the Jews as one of it's main priorities.
The Books of Matthew and John are explicit enough in their goals.

Actually, context. Matthew was written specifically for the Jews, hence why it has so much quoting of scripture in it to burnish Jesus' bona fides as the Messiah. The problem is, the writer of Matthew just got a lot of things straight up wrong. Quoting scriptures that didn't exist or quoting things that had nothing to do with Messianic prophecy.

John was a different deal. John was written much later, at a time when Christians and Jews had clearly split as sects, and therefore, had to denounce the Jews for rejecting Jesus.

You think the Jephy story is gorier than what Stalin did?
You think the Jephy story is gorier than the secular mass slaughters of the 20th century?
Heck, the Jephy story isn't even explicit that he offered her up as a sacrifice, it simply said she returned to her father to allow him to keep his vow.
39 And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed

Sorry, man, he killed and burned her. The word used in the scripture was "olah", which means to burn as an offering. It's VERY explicit.

According to you, if one Jew in history did something, which the Bible exposes, it makes us all monsters.
If an atheist commits 60 million murders, you will continue to ascribe the religion of that person's parents to that person.

First, Stalin didn't kill anywhere near 60 million people. The only way you guys get into the "millions" is if you blame Stalin for every famine and civil war, even the ones that happened before he took power.

Second, my point of emphasizing this particular story is that you can't go around claiming Yahweh is "Good", when he insists a man burn his daughter to death and looks on him as a hero when he slaughters hundreds of thousands of people. And the Bible is full of stories like that. God killing everyone in the world with the flood. God killing the first born of Egypt because HE hardened Pharaoh's heart. God killing the baby of David and Bathsheba because he wanted to teach David that adultery was wrong. God sending out two bears to maul 42 Children to death because they made fun of a Bald Prophet.

 

[Meriweather]

The difference between me and a billion Catholics is that I see through the scam and did so at an early age.

If that were true, you wouldn't be posting in the Religion Forum. Plus, it ounds more like throwing the baby out with the bath water at a young age and thereon doomed to keep searching for the baby. Wishing you well, wishing you peace, Joe.

 

[james bond]

Someone please explain the logic of what God is doing because I don't get it
I need someone to explain how God's plan includes all the horrible things that happen every day.

You operate from a false assumption.

God created the game. He put people on the board to play it and gave them free will to choose how they play.

Free will to follow God's plan or to go their own way rejecting him.

Many choose the later.

The horrors and atrocities you see are not God's doing, not his apathy. Not his vengeance nor cruelty.

They are the result of men exercising their free will apart from God trying to have dominion over the Earth and mankind out of personal greed, lust and ignorance as if they were self-determinant beings.

You just made it up. That's just plain wrong.

The truth is with free will, Lucifer became Satan and he caused the first sin and now he's the ruler of the world and we can only be saved through Jesus.

 

[BreezeWood]

I don't have to be told that the 1,000 years of the Holy Roman Church had the extermination of the Jews as one of it's main priorities.
The Books of Matthew and John are explicit enough in their goals.

Actually, context. Matthew was written specifically for the Jews, hence why it has so much quoting of scripture in it to burnish Jesus' bona fides as the Messiah. The problem is, the writer of Matthew just got a lot of things straight up wrong. Quoting scriptures that didn't exist or quoting things that had nothing to do with Messianic prophecy.

John was a different deal. John was written much later, at a time when Christians and Jews had clearly split as sects, and therefore, had to denounce the Jews for rejecting Jesus.

You think the Jephy story is gorier than what Stalin did?
You think the Jephy story is gorier than the secular mass slaughters of the 20th century?
Heck, the Jephy story isn't even explicit that he offered her up as a sacrifice, it simply said she returned to her father to allow him to keep his vow.
39 And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed

Sorry, man, he killed and burned her. The word used in the scripture was "olah", which means to burn as an offering. It's VERY explicit.

According to you, if one Jew in history did something, which the Bible exposes, it makes us all monsters.
If an atheist commits 60 million murders, you will continue to ascribe the religion of that person's parents to that person.

First, Stalin didn't kill anywhere near 60 million people. The only way you guys get into the "millions" is if you blame Stalin for every famine and civil war, even the ones that happened before he took power.

Second, my point of emphasizing this particular story is that you can't go around claiming Yahweh is "Good", when he insists a man burn his daughter to death and looks on him as a hero when he slaughters hundreds of thousands of people. And the Bible is full of stories like that. God killing everyone in the world with the flood. God killing the first born of Egypt because HE hardened Pharaoh's heart. God killing the baby of David and Bathsheba because he wanted to teach David that adultery was wrong. God sending out two bears to maul 42 Children to death because they made fun of a Bald Prophet.

View attachment 456143

.

Second, my point of emphasizing this particular story is that you can't go around claiming Yahweh is "Good", when he (they) insists a man burn his daughter to death ...

.
so be it, not their - own ...

in reality - they rewrote their book to placate - you ... that story where they were just being tested and did not really have to slay their child. made happy for you -

their conclusion is inaccurate. the subject "family values" in decadence is a dispelled recurrence by them - they do so in defiance against religion for their own selfish objective. a fundamental corruption of all three desert religions, family first.

 

[tyroneweaver]

God created the universe, put human beings on Earth, and then each of us lives a short life mostly consisting of struggling to survive and suffering, then we die.

Some of us go to heaven, some of us go to hell, based on criteria no one can agree on.

Some say we go to heaven if we believe Jesus is our Savior.

But what happens to all the unlucky people who never heard of Jesus because they were born before he was born or live in countries where Christianity isn't widespread?

Some people believe we go to heaven if we have faith and avoid sin. But everyone sins, every day. If you die with one mortal sin on your soul, nothing else matters, you go to hell.

The question I have is why did God set up the whole crazy system to begin with?

Why put us on Earth, to suffer and die? Why not put us in heaven right off the bat?

What good is it to send people to hell?

I'm seriously questioning the logic of believing in a God who is all knowing and all loving and yet sends people to hell for sins God knew before they were born they would commit.

I'm not saying I'm ready to throw Christianity out the window.

The alternative doesn't appear good either.

People who don't believe in God and don't fear going to hell have committed most of the world's nastiest deeds. So faith has a purpose.

And I do believe in God because I can't figure out how a universe can exist without something causing it to exist.

But I'm telling you I need someone to explain how God's plan includes all the horrible things that happen every day.

I Pet. 4:4-6
1 Pet 3:18-19

 

[Blackrook]

God created the universe, put human beings on Earth, and then each of us lives a short life mostly consisting of struggling to survive and suffering, then we die.

Some of us go to heaven, some of us go to hell, based on criteria no one can agree on.

Some say we go to heaven if we believe Jesus is our Savior.

But what happens to all the unlucky people who never heard of Jesus because they were born before he was born or live in countries where Christianity isn't widespread?

Some people believe we go to heaven if we have faith and avoid sin. But everyone sins, every day. If you die with one mortal sin on your soul, nothing else matters, you go to hell.

The question I have is why did God set up the whole crazy system to begin with?

Why put us on Earth, to suffer and die? Why not put us in heaven right off the bat?

What good is it to send people to hell?

I'm seriously questioning the logic of believing in a God who is all knowing and all loving and yet sends people to hell for sins God knew before they were born they would commit.

I'm not saying I'm ready to throw Christianity out the window.

The alternative doesn't appear good either.

People who don't believe in God and don't fear going to hell have committed most of the world's nastiest deeds. So faith has a purpose.

And I do believe in God because I can't figure out how a universe can exist without something causing it to exist.

But I'm telling you I need someone to explain how God's plan includes all the horrible things that happen every day.

I Pet. 4:4-6
1 Pet 3:18-19

I read these passages but don't see how they relate to what I said.

 

[tyroneweaver]

God created the universe, put human beings on Earth, and then each of us lives a short life mostly consisting of struggling to survive and suffering, then we die.

Some of us go to heaven, some of us go to hell, based on criteria no one can agree on.

Some say we go to heaven if we believe Jesus is our Savior.

But what happens to all the unlucky people who never heard of Jesus because they were born before he was born or live in countries where Christianity isn't widespread?

Some people believe we go to heaven if we have faith and avoid sin. But everyone sins, every day. If you die with one mortal sin on your soul, nothing else matters, you go to hell.

The question I have is why did God set up the whole crazy system to begin with?

Why put us on Earth, to suffer and die? Why not put us in heaven right off the bat?

What good is it to send people to hell?

I'm seriously questioning the logic of believing in a God who is all knowing and all loving and yet sends people to hell for sins God knew before they were born they would commit.

I'm not saying I'm ready to throw Christianity out the window.

The alternative doesn't appear good either.

People who don't believe in God and don't fear going to hell have committed most of the world's nastiest deeds. So faith has a purpose.

And I do believe in God because I can't figure out how a universe can exist without something causing it to exist.

But I'm telling you I need someone to explain how God's plan includes all the horrible things that happen every day.

I Pet. 4:4-6
1 Pet 3:18-19

I read these passages but don't see how they relate to what I said.

People who don't know the gospel are taught the gospel in the spirit world after we die.
I assume given the circumstances they will accept it or reject it there.

 

[JoeB131]

If that were true, you wouldn't be posting in the Religion Forum. Plus, it ounds more like throwing the baby out with the bath water at a young age and thereon doomed to keep searching for the baby. Wishing you well, wishing you peace, Joe.

Naw, I wouldn't waste that much time looking...

Look, the only reason I feel a NEED to post on religous forums is that the Churches keep getting into my business and trying to influence politics.... If you kept your silly-ass superstitions in your churches, I wouldn't have a problem with you.

 

[Meriweather]

Look, the only reason I feel a NEED to post on religous forums is that the Churches keep getting into my business and trying to influence politics....

I would need details in how religion is getting into your business (whatever that is). I take it you are very much in favor of how government is influencing my business (teaching).

Who do you think should be allowed to try to influence politics?

 

[JoeB131]

I would need details in how religion is getting into your business (whatever that is). I take it you are very much in favor of how government is influencing my business (teaching).

Who do you think should be allowed to try to influence politics?

I think if your church is involved in politics, they shouldn't get a tax deduction.

The problem with the religious right is that it has been responsible for the last 40 years of the decline of the working class. Get people upset about abortion or gay marriage or some other bullshit, and they don't notice the one percenters screwing them.

 

[Meriweather]

I think if your church is involved in politics, they shouldn't get a tax deduction.

Why?

 

[Meriweather]

The problem with the religious right is that it has been responsible for the last 40 years of the decline of the working class. Get people upset about abortion or gay marriage or some other bullshit, and they don't notice the one percenters screwing them.

This makes no sense.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The problem with the religious right is that it has been responsible for the last 40 years of the decline of the working class. Get people upset about abortion or gay marriage or some other bullshit, and they don't notice the one percenters screwing them.

This makes no sense.

Well let me explain:

The GOP has effectively used the Southern Strategy and hot button social issues wrapped in pages of the Bible and the flag to convince 10s of millions to vote against their economic self interest. The GOP cannot run on its actual platform, because its actual platform is, by every measure available, unpopular. They would not win elections that way.

Ironically, the people they have fooled keep voting for them despite sweeping, abject failure across the board of the GOP and conservatives to deliver on the promises alluded to above.

Civil rights act? Passed.
Equal rights act? Passed.
Abortion? Legal.
Gay marriage? Legal.
Jesus in public school? Nope.
Gays in the military? Yep.
SNAP and TANF? Pillars of our society.

For starters.

It is proof positive that the GOP doesn't really give two shits about any of these issues. And also that the voters they fool don't REALLY care about success. They only care about laying their self righteous heads on their pillows at night. "Well, cant blame ME for the fact that Satan rules America!"

Rubes.

 

[BreezeWood]

The problem with the religious right is that it has been responsible for the last 40 years of the decline of the working class. Get people upset about abortion or gay marriage or some other bullshit, and they don't notice the one percenters screwing them.

This makes no sense.

Well let me explain:

The GOP has effectively used the Southern Strategy and hot button social issues wrapped in pages of the Bible and the flag to convince 10s of millions to vote against their economic self interest. The GOP cannot run on its actual platform, because its actual platform is, by every measure available, unpopular. They would not win elections that way.

Ironically, the people they have fooled keep voting for them despite sweeping, abject failure across the board of the GOP and conservatives to deliver on the promises alluded to above.

Civil rights act? Passed.
Equal rights act? Passed.
Abortion? Legal.
Gay marriage? Legal.
Jesus in public school? Nope.
Gays in the military? Yep.
SNAP and TANF? Pillars of our society.

For starters.

It is proof positive that the GOP doesn't really give two shits about any of these issues. And also that the voters they fool don't REALLY care about success. They only care about laying their self righteous heads on their pillows at night. "Well, cant blame ME for the fact that Satan rules America!"

Rubes.

.

The GOP cannot run on its actual platform, because its actual platform is, by every measure available, unpopular. They would not win elections that way.

.
for what its worth they own the countryside and won most of the last election falling just short of reelecting trump - just not popular with the level minded and concerned citizens not drunk on the desert religions.
.
Someone please explain the logic of what God is doing because I don't get it

odd coming from a christian reflecting the last few years unless as stated trump's unexpected loss - and being upset about it and losing the insanity they were enjoying during trump's tenure. - must be the return to sanity is what they truly can not understand.

 

[JoeB131]

This makes no sense.

Sure it is. Let me explain.

Between 1900 and 1970, we had the "progressive" movement in this country. Working people got more rights and better pay. We created a middle class. We even started to make some progress on racial inequality.

Then the rich decided, they didn't like that so much. So they got the GOP to start pushing back against it. But the GOP found that, 'We want you to work harder for less money and less rights at work" didn't sell so good.

But, man, you get those middle class white people upset about gay marriage and abortion and evolution, and they'll totally vote away their working class rights. So you've had this unholy alliance (pun intended) between the Plutocrats and the Churches.

 

[beautress]

God created the universe, put human beings on Earth, and then each of us lives a short life mostly consisting of struggling to survive and suffering, then we die.

Some of us go to heaven, some of us go to hell, based on criteria no one can agree on.

Some say we go to heaven if we believe Jesus is our Savior.

But what happens to all the unlucky people who never heard of Jesus because they were born before he was born or live in countries where Christianity isn't widespread?

Some people believe we go to heaven if we have faith and avoid sin. But everyone sins, every day. If you die with one mortal sin on your soul, nothing else matters, you go to hell.

The question I have is why did God set up the whole crazy system to begin with?

Why put us on Earth, to suffer and die? Why not put us in heaven right off the bat?

What good is it to send people to hell?

I'm seriously questioning the logic of believing in a God who is all knowing and all loving and yet sends people to hell for sins God knew before they were born they would commit.

I'm not saying I'm ready to throw Christianity out the window.

The alternative doesn't appear good either.

People who don't believe in God and don't fear going to hell have committed most of the world's nastiest deeds. So faith has a purpose.

And I do believe in God because I can't figure out how a universe can exist without something causing it to exist.

But I'm telling you I need someone to explain how God's plan includes all the horrible things that happen every day.

I can simplify your questions a little, blackrook, but I'm not a priest nor a pastor. I do, however celebrate and know the goodness of God, thanks to the Word according to the new testament Book of John, which is a good place to start. If you have access to a red letter version, and you really, really want to know who Jesus is and was according to very wise followers like Isaiah, Ezekiel, and others in the Old Testament.

Once you master the dear book of John, then the other three gospel books may well be more clear to you. If you read up to the fourth chapter of John, you may feel the Spirit of truth calling in a way that makes you hungry for the knowledge of God. Once you get that knowledge, you either accept or reject the precepts of John's third chapter. If that is hard, all I could do for you at that point is to let you know that God is so good he has no peer because he is all goodness. Your spiritual growth begins when you are so convinced he is the perfection of goodness you feel a joy of conviction that no man or devil can ever get a hold on you. Then the phrases, "rejoice in the Lord," "trust in God alone," and "love thy neighbor as thyself," become understood by you in terms that you are entering the kingdom of God, and it lives right in the heart of you. Visit several denominations, pick the one that makes you closest to God, and become steeped in brotherly love enough to accept other believers as they are. As I said, I'm not a pastor and frequently realize I need to read more, stop judging other people, and loving them as God does. A lot of new believers get carried away, but not to worry, they're just human beings enthused by God's perfect goodness.

I have sent up a prayer for people you friend, who care about the kingdom of God will do a better job than an online person, like me, who is way too ordinary to tell the story as well as it deserves to be told with flaws of my memory that are not as good as when I was younger and teaching young children about Adam and Eve, Gideon, the prophets of the Old Testament and Jesus' disciples who went all over the world to tell of God's son and knew the Word inside out. All his disciples were frequently crucified and became martyrs on account of loving God more than kingpins and corrupt kings who demanded all adoptions and taxes for his pet rock projects and not for God's kingdom. Oh, one other things. God can help you a lot more if you pray believing in Him and his goodness for strength, resistance of wrongful doctrines, which will become clearer to you as you read and learn the goodness of God by understanding things written in the Bible. I was lucky a member of my family walked in Godly paths and helped his denomination to open new churches all over the state of my birth. He was my grandfather, and he studied his Bible every night when he got home from his blue collar job as a supervisor of a metals factory in a large city. It was an honor to be his granddaughter. I hope you get a teacher of God's kingdom as good as he. Someone who really, really trusts in God for everything like he did. All God's love and the joy of knowing Him to you and anyone else my little not too perfect post to help you map out the kingdom of God which is quite different from the world that hates his kingdom of order, kindness, joy, and peace of mind. God is so fine. Hope you seek and find him. Only good wishes for your growth in your faith life.

 

[ChemEngineer]

From Beutress' post, nested inside it:

Why put us on Earth, to suffer and die? Why not put us in heaven right off the bat?
What good is it to send people to hell?

God said "My thoughts are not your thoughts and my ways are not your ways."
We may not always like them, but then again, we didn't always like how our parents and our teachers treated us either. Sometimes you get painful treatments for sickness to heal you.

All too often, we create our own hell, don't we. We are selfish and sinful. What does it profit a man if he gains the world but loses his soul. - These names come to mind:
Bernie Madoff
Bill Cosby
Phil Spectre
Jeffrey Epstein
Harvey Weinstein


[QUOT]
I'm seriously questioning the logic of believing in a God who is all knowing and all loving and yet sends people to hell for sins God knew before they were born they would commit.

And I do believe in God because I can't figure out how a universe can exist without something causing it to exist.

But I'm telling you I need someone to explain how God's plan includes all the horrible things that happen every day.
[/QUOTE]

How can anyone explain what nobody understands? Does a worm understand what is happening when it is plowed up by farmers? Does a dog understand how the car transports it with its head hanging out the window? We simply do the best we can and treat others as we would have them treat us. Heaven must be like that.

 

[Sunsettommy]

God created the universe, put human beings on Earth, and then each of us lives a short life mostly consisting of struggling to survive and suffering, then we die.

Some of us go to heaven, some of us go to hell, based on criteria no one can agree on.

Some say we go to heaven if we believe Jesus is our Savior.

But what happens to all the unlucky people who never heard of Jesus because they were born before he was born or live in countries where Christianity isn't widespread?

Some people believe we go to heaven if we have faith and avoid sin. But everyone sins, every day. If you die with one mortal sin on your soul, nothing else matters, you go to hell.

The question I have is why did God set up the whole crazy system to begin with?

Why put us on Earth, to suffer and die? Why not put us in heaven right off the bat?

What good is it to send people to hell?

I'm seriously questioning the logic of believing in a God who is all knowing and all loving and yet sends people to hell for sins God knew before they were born they would commit.

I'm not saying I'm ready to throw Christianity out the window.

The alternative doesn't appear good either.

People who don't believe in God and don't fear going to hell have committed most of the world's nastiest deeds. So faith has a purpose.

And I do believe in God because I can't figure out how a universe can exist without something causing it to exist.

But I'm telling you I need someone to explain how God's plan includes all the horrible things that happen every day.

My advise is for you to drop the god thing since it doesn't exist at all. You will never find it since what doesn't exist never can be found.

The very words YOU post here makes it clear, that there is no rational thinking going on with the god delusion, that is why you feel tortured because the answers you seek do not exist, what you can do is deny battle with the delusion, then you will be free to really live leaving behind that useless delusion.

I ended my battle with the god delusion in August 1990, when I decided to completely leave religion and really live, oh it was great feeling to not worry about all those other delusions that religion generates.

Ever since then I have been enjoying the life with a freethinking mind, I learned to stay independent from ideology, conformity and hate.

Don't waste the time seeking answers that don't exist, since they base their religious orthodoxy on something that doesn't exist.

 

[ChemEngineer]

The Irrational Atheist: Dissecting the Unholy Trinity of Dawkins, Harris, and Hitchens
by Vox Day ​

(Vox Day is a former militant atheist like Tommy.)

I am confident that I will convince you that this trio of New Atheists, this Unholy Trinity, are a collection of faux-intellectual frauds utilizing pseudo-scientific slight of hand in order to falsely claim that religious faith is inherently dangerous and has no place in the modern world.



The idea that he is a devotee of reason seeing through the outdated superstitions believed by less intelligent beings is the foremost conceit of the atheist. – page 7

… 72.9 percent of professors polled described the Bible as “an ancient book of fables, legends, history, and moral precepts,” compared to 17.5 percent of the general population. – page 15


… the High Church atheist’s undeveloped social skills are often so dramatic as to be reasonably described as a form of social autism. – page 16

Democrats are more than twice as likely to be someone who has dropped out of high school than to be an individual with a master’s degree. – page 19

Studies have shown that those without religion have life expectancies seven years shorter than the average churchgoer, are more likely to smoke, abuse alcohol and be depressed or obese, and they are much less likely to marry or have children. – page 20

​