Some Of The Biggest Lies Being Spread About The Jan. 6 Insurrection

[NotfooledbyW]

You are failing to make your case.

Not for you to decide. You can try to dispute my facts if you wish. Were there 84 GOP real life living breathing fake electors putting their signatures on sworn fake affidavits certifying that Trump won Arizona Nevada Michigan Pennsylvania Georgia Wisconsin and New Mexico which he actually lost? If they and their fraudulent certificates do not exist then you will have to prove that but most have admitted it and are proud to have done so.

Did Trump pressure Pence to recognize those fake affidavits and therefore declare the fake electors affidavits in Arizona Nevada Michigan Pennsylvania Georgia Wisconsin and New Mexico cause him to declare that the results from those states to be in dispute therefore making it necessary to not count any and all votes in those states?

Had Pence done as requested Trump is deviated the winner.

Pence says that is what Trump wanted him to do so it all adds up exactly according to the Eastman memo,

Those were actions taken at the direction of DJT up to the point when Pence stopped it from becoming a reality.


Now what is not fact?

 

[BackAgain]

I apologize I shouldn’t have called it an argument. That appears to me on second thought to be your best mental mush.

I realize that a person only capable of mental mush would not go around saying it, but that is my opinion of what you’re providing to this discussion because it is obvious that you do not wish to discuss facts reality and truth about the Eastman Trump January 6 attempt to use fake electors in order to throw out the votes in seven states where effectively all the black voters in those states would be disenfranchised along with all the other voters. It’s a reality that you do not want to accept because it means your love of Trump is evil and racist from what he tried to do on January 6 and you don’t know how to deal with it.

You might as well Just confess you’ve got nothing. I mean, hell. It shows.

 

[BackAgain]

No. No. No! No!

I posted the Eastman memo. The plan can only work if they throw out all the valid votes from Michigan Arizona Georgia Pennsylvania Wisconsin Nevada and New Mexico. And it is not just a coincidence that those are the states that sent Mike Pence fake certificates of electors. Every single voter in all those states was not going to be counted in the 2020 election according to Trump and his lawyer John Eastman and all the Republicans in Congress Republican activist in those seven states who were in on the plan. They were going to shitcan their own states votes and the effect would be the black Biden voters in those states would not be counted. Has nothing to do with fraudulent votes. Absolutely nothing to do with fraudulent votes. You are out of your league Trump idiot

Yes. I saw the memo. and it is still predicated on the assumption that the election was stolen, you unbelievably dense imbecile. That being the case, the thieves did the disenfranchising. Any effort to defeat the theft wouldn’t disenfranchise anybody. That milepost was far behind. You jerkoff.

The rest of your drooling imbecility amounts to absolutely nothing. As usual.

 

[BackAgain]

Not for you to decide. You can try to dispute my facts if you wish. Were there 84 GOP real life living breathing fake electors putting their signatures on sworn fake affidavits certifying that Trump won Arizona Nevada Michigan Pennsylvania Georgia Wisconsin and New Mexico which he actually lost? If they and their fraudulent certificates do not exist then you will have to prove that but most have admitted it and are proud to have done so.

Did Trump pressure Pence to recognize those fake affidavits and therefore declare the fake electors affidavits in Arizona Nevada Michigan Pennsylvania Georgia Wisconsin and New Mexico cause him to declare that the results from those states to be in dispute therefore making it necessary to not count any and all votes in those states?

Had Pence done as requested Trump is deviated the winner.

Pence says that is what Trump wanted him to do so it all adds up exactly according to the Eastman memo,

Those were actions taken at the direction of DJT up to the point when Pence stopped it from becoming a reality.


Now what is not fact?

Of course it’s for me to decide, you lummox. You make the supposed arguments and I assess them. You have been found to be a fail.

Now, of course, you may disagree. But I don’t care. You’re so hopelessly retarded, you made your failed argument and didn’t recognize the flaws. I wouldn’t expect a brain-dead shithead like you to recognize them even when pointed out.

As I understand it, Trump did try to persuade Pence to reject the presumed fake slate of electors where considered to have been invalid due to election fraud. So what? Stolen elections don’t deserve recognition.

So, if you imagine you’re making a good point, you’re just wrong again. That goes hand in hand with your tragic condition of complete mental retardation.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Of course it’s for me to decide,

You cannot decide that facts are not facts unless you are in a cult? For example you can argue that you think black voters in Michigan would not care if Trump told Pence not to count their votes so Trump wins and Biden loses. But you cannot argue that black voters in Michigan, if legitimate, would be counted under Trump’s pressure on Pence to recognize the fake certificates causing the election in Michigan to not count - no voter in Michigan has a vote as Trump wanted.,

 

[BackAgain]

You cannot decide that facts are not facts unless you are in a cult? For example you can argue that you think black voters in Michigan would not care if Trump told Pence not to count their votes so Trump wins and Biden loses. But you cannot argue that black voters in Michigan, if legitimate, would be counted under Trump’s pressure on Pence to recognize the fake certificates causing the election in Michigan to not count - no voter in Michigan has a vote as Trump wanted.,

You’re reduced to gibberish. If the Michigan vote had been stolen, then the thieves would be the ones disenfranchising voters, you cultist shithead. It would not be the ones trying to prevent the theft who would be disenfranchising anybody. And none of the theft is race-based. Again, your race-baiting playcard is overused and dishonest. Fuck off.

You can’t claim that the voting side with the minority of votes cast were disenfranchised if a false win is then denied. You’re an idiot.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

You make the supposed arguments a

I am not making supposed arguments. I’m presenting you with facts that you were not aware and that you cannot reject or dispute unless you are in a cult were members are averse to truth facts and reality.

Do you accept the fact that had Pence agreed to do what Trump and Eastman prepared for him to do on Jan6 not one single vote cast by a black voter for Biden in (Arizona Nevada Michigan Pennsylvania Georgia Wisconsin and New Mexico) would have counted therefore the 2020 election winner is DJT?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

If the Michigan vote had been stolen

Biden won Michigan. Nothing was stolen. So your “if” goes away and your challenge to the facts becomes an absurdity..And that is being kind. Only one party attempted to disenfranchise black voters in Michigan. That’s DJ T. That is a fact.

 

[BackAgain]

I am not making supposed arguments. I’m presenting you with facts that you were not aware and that you cannot reject or dispute unless you are in a cult were members are averse to truth facts and reality.

Do you accept the fact that had Pence agreed to do what Trump and Eastman prepared for him to do on Jan6 not one single vote cast by a black voter for Biden in (Arizona Nevada Michigan Pennsylvania Georgia Wisconsin and New Mexico) would have counted therefore the 2020 election winner is DJT?

You haven’t said anything about which I was unaware. You are attempting to cobble an argument together. So don’t lie. And I’m absolutely in a position to observe what you’re up to and call bullshit on you. And that’s really what you’re now whining about. So, suck it up, buttercup. I enjoy exposing your slovenly use of logic, your ongoing fallacies, your lies and your general bullshit.

Accept the fact that (even if mistaken) the supposition behind the Eastman memo (legal advice to a client) and President Trump’s efforts was to prevent what was believed to be a massive election fraud. Once you start there, most of your nonsensical contentions fall off the table.

 

[BackAgain]

Biden won Michigan. Nothing was stolen. So your “if” goes away and your challenge to the facts becomes an absurdity..And that is being kind. Only one party attempted to disenfranchise black voters in Michigan. That’s DJ T. That is a fact.

Being studiously obtuse is your look. It’s not a good look. The word “if” is self explanatory. And I’ve already said that there is no sufficient proof (for me) that the efforts to steal had succeeded.

The Trump efforts did not attempt to disenfranchise any voters. And your insistence on casting it as in any way as a racial issue a lie.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Biden won Michigan. Nothing was stolen

You are saying “if” Michigan was stolen . That means you BackAgain don’t have any evidence or proof or a cause or a reason to say that Michigan may have been stolen or that Michigan was stolen as DJ T says. The reality is there is no evidence that anybody’s vote was disenfranchised in Michigan on or before election Day. That is reality you poor lost Trump soul.

This statement is fact Biden won Michigan. Nothing was stolen Until you have hard evidence to the contrary. So why do you disagree with no evidence?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

The Trump efforts did not attempt to disenfranchise any voters.

Had Pence gone through with it it would have disenfranchised every single voter in Arizona Nevada Michigan Pennsylvania Georgia Wisconsin and New Mexico. That is a fact. It had to disenfranchise every voter in all those states. Trump said it verbatim on 6 January when he says if Pence does the right thing we win and you Trump voters will be the happiest people. The only way Trump wins is to not count any of the votes from those seven states and when the electoral votes from those seven states are not counted Trump beats Biden in the electoral college by 10 votes. That’s how he wins. That’s in the Eastman memo. The facts are undeniable. The fake electors were the reason Mike Pence was supposed to discard the electors from those seven states.

 

[BackAgain]

Biden won Michigan. Nothing was stolen

You are saying “if” Michigan was stoken. That means you BackAgain don’t have any evidence or proof or a cause or a reason to say that Michigan may have been stolen or that Michigan was stolen as DJ T says. The reality is there is no evidence that anybody’s vote was disenfranchised in Michigan on or before election Day. That is reality you poor lost Trump soul.

This statement is fact Biden won Michigan. Nothing was stolen Until you have hard evidence to the contrary. So why do you disagree with no evidence?

Your lack of comprehension would be astounding if it were genuine. But based on your posts, it appears that you aren’t even honest there.

Once again for your retarded benefit: It doesn’t matter if Michigan election was stolen. That’s not the point. The point, you studious asshole, is that it was thought to have been stolen. And the reaction to that was to seek to deny the cheaters the benefit of their criminal efforts.

And you refuse to acknowledge that because it guts your supposed “argument.” So, again: gfy. I’m not here to play your petty games or jump through your dishonest hoops.

My position has already been stated and re-stated. I say there were obvious efforts to cheat by the Dims. But I do not claim that there is sufficient evidence that the efforts to steal the election succeeded. That’s why I maintain that Pence deserves props for not agreeing to refuse the electoral certification.

I do deny your asshole contention that Trump attempted to “disenfranchise” any voters at all, especially based on race. Your claim is absurd and your logic is utterly lacking. So is your honesty.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

And your insistence on casting it as in any way as a racial issue a lie.

You don’t think black American voters having their choice for presidency taken away by and for a President who says those who were marching along side NAZIS are fine people would say it was Racist.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

I do deny your asshole contention that Trump attempted to “disenfranchise” any voters at all, especially based on race.

What does this part of the Eastman memo mean to the voters in the states with the fake electors?


3. At the end, he (Pence) announces that because of the ongoing disputes in the 7 States, there are no electors that can be deemed validly appointed in those States. That means the total number of “electors appointed” – the language of the 12th Amendment -- is 454. This reading of the 12th Amendment has also been advanced by Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe (here). A “majority of the electors appointed” would therefore be 228. There are at this point 232 votes for Trump, 222 votes for Biden. Pence then gavels President Trump as re-elected.

 

[BackAgain]

You don’t think black American voters having their choice for presidency taken away by and for a President who says those who were marching along side NAZIS are fine people would say it was Racist.

I think your question remains stupid.
(1) If you disenfranchise all voters, then you are by definition not being racist.
(2) If you negate a stolen election, you aren’t the one who disenfranchised anybody. The ones who attempted to steal it did the disenfranchising.
(3) Your premise is false anyway. That’s not what Trump said.
(4) I think you intentionally lied and attempt to conflate.
(5) Again, gfy.

 

[BackAgain]

What does this part of the Eastman memo mean to the voters in the states with the fake electors?


3. At the end, he (Pence) announces that because of the ongoing disputes in the 7 States, there are no electors that can be deemed validly appointed in those States. That means the total number of “electors appointed” – the language of the 12th Amendment -- is 454. This reading of the 12th Amendment has also been advanced by Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe (here). A “majority of the electors appointed” would therefore be 228. There are at this point 232 votes for Trump, 222 votes for Biden. Pence then gavels President Trump as re-elected.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

I disagree with what he wanted Vice President Pence to do.

Do you agree now May 25, 2022 Trump wanted Pence to put the following paragraph in motion on Jan6 having absolutely no proof of election fraud in any of the seven states that sent fake electors to Trump?

[Pence] announces that because of the ongoing disputes [receipt of fake certificates of electors] the 7 States, there are no electors that can be deemed validly appointed in those States. That means the total number of “electors appointed” – is 454. A “majority of the electors appointed” would therefore be 228. There are at this point 232 votes for Trump, 222 votes for Biden. Pence then gavels President Trump as re-elected.

I don’t think he had the needed evidence at that time. And refusing to certify just to buy time to “maybe” get proof (or to get some States to provide real alternative electoral slates) would have been received by many of the electorate as — insidious.

That’s on the record is it not?

I believe Trump was seeking to prevent the electoral votes obtained via election fraud thievery from being counted. Fraudulently obtained state electoral vote totals shouldn’t be counted.

Trump sought to block all electoral votes based upon his suspicion of election fraud against him. Only the courts can determine if there was sufficient fraud or any other glitch that would overturn the final accepted result. The loser is the last one who should be able to block a state certified result from bring counted with no valid reason, specifically when they don’t have the needed evidence as you say Trump did not have.

There There is absolutely plenty legal about refusing to accept a fraudulently obtained slate of electors.

Check the Constitution and Election laws. There is no way to legally block any state’s results if they were certified by December 14. All fifty states were certified by the “safe harbor” date. Trump’s only legal recourse on suspicion of fraud was to (a) concede with a complaint to the winner (b) gather the proof and sue the states suspected of fraud and file lawsuits. Trump has done neither.

I KNOW you can't just discard slates of electors because you don't like the results...and trying to do so is obstructing the peaceful transfer of power...a coup attempt

Lesh is correct. It’s called a self - coup.

And a big one is: an “act in furtherance” of the crime.

Yes Trump took the Eastman Plan and acted in furtherance if a crime.

Proposed alternative slates of electors.

No. They were fake electors for Trump who was the loser in the seven states claiming Trump was the winner and they were certified as such. They were organized by Rudy Giuliani who had no official capacity to certify their validity. They were frauds. Trump pressured Pence to cite them as the reason to not count their states.

It was symbolic showing they think the election was stolen.

If they only “think” the election was stolen they have no business doing anything other than filing to be heard in court. Definitely should not be disenfranchising every voter in seven of the many states that they lost. Just enough to overturn the election.

He asked Pence to reject the slates of electors thought to have been stolen. I’m very satisfied that Pence said “no.”

Yes Trump did? He disenfranchise every voter if Pence agreed to do that.

As I understand it, Trump did try to persuade Pence to reject the presumed fake slate of electors where considered to have been invalid due to election fraud. So what? Stolen elections don’t deserve recognition.

You understand it wrong - The states were not to be counted by Pence due to the appearance of two sets of certified electors because the fake certificates were given to him. It had nothing to do with fraud in the election itself because it couldn’t. The real Biden electors were certified by December 14 and could not be returned or switched.


Trump wanted to get the entire election out to the House where a Republican majority would vote to re-elect Trump without having to prove anything about fraud at all

 

[NotfooledbyW]

(1) If you disenfranchise all voters, then you are by definition not being racist.

The harm inflicted is not equal. The Trump voters are not harmed by disenfranchisement because their vote ultimately wins after having actually lost.

The harm of disenfranchisement falls on the Biden voters because their candidate won but never gets to represent them and their interest because Mike Pence decided to throw out their votes.

Most Trump voters being white makes this a white coup against the multicultural Democratic Party where 90 percent of all black voters choose to be represented,

When DJT attempted to harm that many black Americans by canceling their votes to make his white base happy as he said on Jan6 it would have becoime reality that millions of white Trump voters are happy that Trump could do harm to millions of black Americans with his fake electors scheme, …. it is racist.

 

[BackAgain]

Do you agree now May 25, 2022 Trump wanted Pence to put the following paragraph in motion on Jan6 having absolutely no proof of election fraud in any of the seven states that sent fake electors to Trump?

[Pence] announces that because of the ongoing disputes [receipt of fake certificates of electors] the 7 States, there are no electors that can be deemed validly appointed in those States. That means the total number of “electors appointed” – is 454. A “majority of the electors appointed” would therefore be 228. There are at this point 232 votes for Trump, 222 votes for Biden. Pence then gavels President Trump as re-elected.


That’s on the record is it not?



Trump sought to block all electoral votes based upon his suspicion of election fraud against him. Only the courts can determine if there was sufficient fraud or any other glitch that would overturn the final accepted result. The loser is the last one who should be able to block a state certified result from bring counted with no valid reason, specifically when they don’t have the needed evidence as you say Trump did not have.



Check the Constitution and Election laws. There is no way to legally block any state’s results if they were certified by December 14. All fifty states were certified by the “safe harbor” date. Trump’s only legal recourse on suspicion of fraud was to (a) concede with a complaint to the winner (b) gather the proof and sue the states suspected of fraud and file lawsuits. Trump has done neither.



Lesh is correct. It’s called a self - coup.



Yes Trump took the Eastman Plan and acted in furtherance if a crime.



No. They were fake electors for Trump who was the loser in the seven states claiming Trump was the winner and they were certified as such. They were organized by Rudy Giuliani who had no official capacity to certify their validity. They were frauds. Trump pressured Pence to cite them as the reason to not count their states.


If they only “think” the election was stolen they have no business doing anything other than filing to be heard in court. Definitely should not be disenfranchising every voter in seven of the many states that they lost. Just enough to overturn the election.



Yes Trump did? He disenfranchise every voter if Pence agreed to do that.




You understand it wrong - The states were not to be counted by Pence due to the appearance of two sets of certified electors because the fake certificates were given to him. It had nothing to do with fraud in the election itself because it couldn’t. The real Biden electors were certified by December 14 and could not be returned or switched.


Trump wanted to get the entire election out to the House where a Republican majority would vote to re-elect Trump without having to prove anything about fraud at all

I don’t do wall o’ words.