Solving the Merit Pay Issue Over Hot Wings...

[Gem]

Ok, so maybe we didn't solve it...but at dinner tonight my husband came up with an interesting option for "merit pay" for teachers and I thought I'd offer it up for discussion here...

I was discussing the fact that it was disheartening that as a teacher, I could work for 30 years and not receive and not have any sort of "advancement" based on my skills and achievement other than a small pay increase that comes for every teacher for simply showing up to work and not beating the children.

He commented that the problem was that the tier system wasn't based on merit, but rather on time...and I responded that merit-pay is tricky though, because you have to answer all the questions like: What is it based on? Who determines it? How much do you get and for what skills? Etc. etc. I just didn't see it working.

He smiled and said that I had been living with someone going through a merit based system that had working for hundreds of years...the military rank system...and why couldn't something like that work in education.

It was, in my opinion, and intriguing thought.

Every teacher begins as a 2nd Lieutenant (forgive me, I'm using Air Force Officer rank because thats what I'm familiar with...) by doing little more than showing up...receiving adequate progress reports etc. they can be promoted to 1st LT. in a year or two...perhaps receiving a certain number of hours of additional education they can become "Captain," and so on and so on.

I thought it was a really interesting concepts I had never heard anyone bring up before...obviously, I haven't put a ton of thought into it as we just got back from dinner an hour ago but...

What do people here think?

 

[Annie]

Ok, so maybe we didn't solve it...but at dinner tonight my husband came up with an interesting option for "merit pay" for teachers and I thought I'd offer it up for discussion here...

I was discussing the fact that it was disheartening that as a teacher, I could work for 30 years and not receive and not have any sort of "advancement" based on my skills and achievement other than a small pay increase that comes for every teacher for simply showing up to work and not beating the children.

He commented that the problem was that the tier system wasn't based on merit, but rather on time...and I responded that merit-pay is tricky though, because you have to answer all the questions like: What is it based on? Who determines it? How much do you get and for what skills? Etc. etc. I just didn't see it working.

He smiled and said that I had been living with someone going through a merit based system that had working for hundreds of years...the military rank system...and why couldn't something like that work in education.

It was, in my opinion, and intriguing thought.

Every teacher begins as a 2nd Lieutenant (forgive me, I'm using Air Force Officer rank because thats what I'm familiar with...) by doing little more than showing up...receiving adequate progress reports etc. they can be promoted to 1st LT. in a year or two...perhaps receiving a certain number of hours of additional education they can become "Captain," and so on and so on.

I thought it was a really interesting concepts I had never heard anyone bring up before...obviously, I haven't put a ton of thought into it as we just got back from dinner an hour ago but...

What do people here think?

I read something the other day about a district in NY following kids grades and standardized scores, individually. Makes way more sense than comparing year to year results. Some classes skewed to one end or the other. There are the kids that no matter what, you can't hurt or help much. Looking at what the teacher does with what is given, that makes sense.

 

[Diuretic]

I read something the other day about a district in NY following kids grades and standardized scores, individually. Makes way more sense than comparing year to year results. Some classes skewed to one end or the other. There are the kids that no matter what, you can't hurt or help much. Looking at what the teacher does with what is given, that makes sense.

Class to class results can be validly compared, I've done it using the Spearman Rank Order Correlation Coefficient, it removes the effect of all those variables. But I think that rewarding teachers on those results is not a good idea.

other than a small pay increase that comes for every teacher for simply showing up to work and not beating the children.

 

[Annie]

Class to class results can be validly compared, I've done it using the Spearman Rank Order Correlation Coefficient, it removes the effect of all those variables. But I think that rewarding teachers on those results is not a good idea.

Seems that military, police, and teachers all have a weird sense of humor!

Quote:
other than a small pay increase that comes for every teacher for simply showing up to work and not beating the children.

 

[dmp]

I believe the Army Civilian Pay system would more-closely match with Teachers. However, the Army is doing-away with Civilian Grade positions (No more GS-level employees).

But in this old system (I currently am in the old system still) People hold a grade, each grade contains 10 steps. As long as people receive satisfactory annual reviews, they are given step increases over time. It works like this:

Joe starts out as a GS7, step one. After one year, he goes to Step 2, after another Step 3, and after his 3rd year, he gets Step 4. (again, assuming he's not a crap-bag of an employee). Then, TWO years go by between steps for 5, 6, and 7. Three years for 8, 9, and 10. Longevity is rewarded to a point - a GS7 Step 7 may make more than a GS8 step 1. These steps are in addition to annual Cost of Living raises (which lately, have been around 3%).

I believe something like the new system would work, too.

It's called NSPS - In a nutshell it works like this:

Three pay bands. 1,2, and 3.

Band 1 covers, say 20k-50k per year, pay band 2, 51K - 85K, and 3, 86k - 120K per year.

Each job is announced as a PayBand 1, 2 or 3. Prospective hires are basically bidding for the job. No steps within bands, each employee is assigned to a pay-pool, with perhaps 100-200 other employees (which are likely working nowhere near that employee, nor doing the same job).

Each year, the employee's evaluation is sent up to a Pay Pool board who determines how much each employee gets (as a percentage of all available pay-increase-dollars budgeted).


Teachers could so something similar - different pay bands for the level they are teaching, etc.

 

[Diuretic]

Seems that military, police, and teachers all have a weird sense of humor!

Yep and I'm not even military or ex-military

 

[Nevadamedic]

Ok, so maybe we didn't solve it...but at dinner tonight my husband came up with an interesting option for "merit pay" for teachers and I thought I'd offer it up for discussion here...

I was discussing the fact that it was disheartening that as a teacher, I could work for 30 years and not receive and not have any sort of "advancement" based on my skills and achievement other than a small pay increase that comes for every teacher for simply showing up to work and not beating the children.

He commented that the problem was that the tier system wasn't based on merit, but rather on time...and I responded that merit-pay is tricky though, because you have to answer all the questions like: What is it based on? Who determines it? How much do you get and for what skills? Etc. etc. I just didn't see it working.

He smiled and said that I had been living with someone going through a merit based system that had working for hundreds of years...the military rank system...and why couldn't something like that work in education.

It was, in my opinion, and intriguing thought.

Every teacher begins as a 2nd Lieutenant (forgive me, I'm using Air Force Officer rank because thats what I'm familiar with...) by doing little more than showing up...receiving adequate progress reports etc. they can be promoted to 1st LT. in a year or two...perhaps receiving a certain number of hours of additional education they can become "Captain," and so on and so on.

I thought it was a really interesting concepts I had never heard anyone bring up before...obviously, I haven't put a ton of thought into it as we just got back from dinner an hour ago but...

What do people here think?

I think our Government need's to do more for teachers then we do. We need to give them a better pay and benefit structure. I also think that people elected into the school board should be either current or former teachers as none of them members of the school board in my town have education expierence, it's sickening.

I think that teachers should be paid by seniority and also by how well they do, how well the students do and what he/she gives back to the school. All most all teachers are over worked and under paid. Some of them even work at school's that are extremly dangerous in the gang and poverty infested areas. I think some sort of hazard pay for those teachers would be appropriate unless you could insure their safety which I don't see how they could.

I have the highest respect for people who become teachers. They tend to do it because they want to work with kids and give help give them a good education so they have a great future. Any of those teachers could have gotten a different degree where they would make a ton more money, but their love for other people overrides that thought and for that every teacher has my respect.

 

[Diuretic]

Hear hear - I like that bumper sticker, "if you can read this, thank a teacher"

I'm not a teacher so I can say that

 

[Nevadamedic]

Hear hear - I like that bumper sticker, "if you can read this, thank a teacher"

I'm not a teacher so I can say that

Amen.

 

[dmp]

Hear hear - I like that bumper sticker, "if you can read this, thank a teacher"

...and if you can read it in English, Thank a Vet.