Solution to our debt.

[Andylusion]

Cancel our debt to China as partial payment for the pandemic.

Right.... Um... Ok. Quick math. So as of July 2020, China had roughly $1 Trillion in US bonds.

The US national debt is $28 Trillion.

So, not going to solve our problem, is it?

Further, I learned back when I first moved out, that it didn't matter if I paid off a debt, if I was living in a way that racked up debt.

The only way to not have a debt problem, is to live on less than you make in income. Spend less... than you collect in income.

Similarly, as long as the US public wants to spend more than the government can collect in revenue, canceling debt will cause tons of problems, and we'll end up in debt anyway.

We need to cut spending. Cut welfare, unemployment, SNAP, housing, cut education, cut all entitlements.

If we don't do that, it doesn't matter if you cancel debt. You keep spending more than you collect, you end up with debt. That's how it works.

Lastly, the bond market is critical to borrowing money. The only reason anyone, anywhere, is willing to buy US bonds, is because they believe the US government will pay back the loan.

You cancel those bonds, and everyone everywhere in the world, will stop buying US bonds. They are not going to distinguish US bonds, from other US bonds, because they are all US bonds.

It would be like you and your neighbor both buying a health insurance policy with the same company. You find out the following week, that your neighbor got sick, and the company just decided to not honor the policy. Are you going to keep your policy with that company? Well yeah, that was him, not you... so you are safe? No, you would cancel that policy and buy from someone else.

Same thing in with bonds. No one is going to buy those bonds knowing we won't pay, if we decide to blame you for a virus.

If we can't borrow money, then Social Security or Medicare will be cut dramatically in a month.

Or... we would have to get an international bailout. Do you want to get bailed out by Europe? Because that's what happened with Greece. They went bankrupt, needed an international bailout, and suddenly you had people all over the EU, dictating Greek public policy. You want Europe or others dictating US policy, because we have to have a bailout, because we defaulted on our bonds like Greece did?

Very bad idea. Very bad. Your idea might well actually cause civil war, and a break up of the United States.

A Liberal, a conservative and an CEO walk into a room. The CEO puts 10 dollars on the table. The conservative takes 9 and gives the CEO 4 dollars back for a "political contribution" He pockets the remaining $5 telling while telling the African-American as they pick up the last dollar, "you can put the CEO's golf clubs in his truck now".

The conservative would not take $9. They would earn it. So the rest of what you said doesn't even make sense.

Conservatives, by definition, believe in value of work. It's based on the protestant work ethic.

Protestant work ethic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A conservative that believes in taking what others earned.... just simply isn't a conservative.

That would be like saying "A Vegan and a Cattle rancher walk into the room. The cattle rancher puts down a hamburger and the vegan eats it and says...." If the Vegan eats the hamburger, they are not a vegan.

Similarly, if the conservative takes someone else's money... they are not conservatives. If they earn the money, or if they sell you something for the money, then you might have a point. But conservatives don't take your money. Left-wingers do. Socialists do. Government does. But not conservatives. Doesn't happen.

Did the farmers give back their billions in subsidies and bailout monies? Or is Iowa, Kansas and Nebraska full of flaming liberals?

No, of course not. If you are stupid enough to give me your money, I'll take every dollar you are dumb enough to give me. Absolutely.

However from policy perspective, conservatives are against government subsidies of any kind.

But if your side wins the day, and offers for example, universal income benefits.... yeah I'll take your tax money. I'll vote against the policy until the day I die... but if you pass that socialist policy, I will quit my job, and soak you for every dollar I can get. You give me your cash, that's on you, not me.

But to the point, I've said this for years, that we should have no farm subsidies at all. That's one of the reasons conservatives opposed the Farm bill under Bush. And we opposed it under Trump.

Republicans Fume at Trump's $12 Billion Plan to Aid Farmers

"They want trade, not aid. It’s really just that simple"

time.com

“My thoughts are the thoughts of farmers. They want trade, not aid. It’s really just that simple,” said Senator Ron Johnson, a Republican from Wisconsin.

That right there.... Ron Johnson's position, is the conservative position.

Go back to 2008.

Conservative Republicans offer bailout alternative

A group of conservative Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives offered a mortgage insurance plan on Thursday as an alternative to the Bush administration's $700-billion Wall Street bailout.

www.reuters.com

A group of conservative Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives offered a mortgage insurance plan on Thursday as an alternative to the Bush administration’s $700-billion Wall Street bailout.

That right there, the private insurance model, as opposed to the tax payer funded bailout.... that is the conservative position.

We've been very consistent on this.

Yeah...your lie about conservatives wanting to "earn" money is crap...just like everything else you post.

You have the right to be wrong. Please continue.

 

[Donald H]

The country is awash in wealth and cash. It's just that it's not in your hands. -Michael Moore.

 

[progressive hunter]

The country is awash in wealth and cash. It's just that it's not in your hands. -Michael Moore.

wealth yes cash no,,,
and micheal moores an idiot that doesnt understand what wealth really is,,

 

[Papageorgio]

Maybe we could just be more fiscally responsible.

That will never happen, that would require tough decisions and hard choices. Congress has the job of getting re-elected which requires giving away money to the rich and placating the poor and middle class.

 

[Papageorgio]

wealth yes cash no,,,
and micheal moores an idiot that doesnt understand what wealth really is,,

Yeah right! Micheal Moore's an idiot.

Moore is no idiot, he just figured out how to get a fool to part with his money.

 

[percysunshine]

Cancel our debt to China as partial payment for the pandemic.

Why should China pay for the stupidity of the people we elected?

 

[Donald H]

as usual you always dodge when youre proven wrong,,

Did you think I was dodging? I was trying to reply directly to your questions and have always tried to do that.
The problem you have to face is that America has some very big problems that are going to be insurmountable in some cases.

If Biden doesn't fix it for the working people then the left isn't going to lie down like good dogs for him. Kamala is there because she's the anti-Biden that Joe was forced to pick if he wanted to be elected.

 

[progressive hunter]

as usual you always dodge when youre proven wrong,,

Did you think I was dodging? I was trying to reply directly to your questions and have always tried to do that.
The problem you have to face is that America has some very big problems that are going to be insurmountable in some cases.

If Biden doesn't fix it for the working people then the left isn't going to lie down like good dogs for him. Kamala is there because she's the anti-Biden that Joe was forced to pick if he wanted to be elected.

like hell you have,, everytime I give a detailed explanation why youre wrong you go off in a different direction and ignore what I said,,,

 

[Donald H]

like hell you have,, everytime I give a detailed explanation why youre wrong you go off in a different direction and ignore what I said,,,

What is your question? Every time i ask you for your question you go off and start telling me I'm wrong about something?
I'm probably wrong just like you say but I should at least be able to know what I'm so wrong about?
Something to do with M. Moore?
About America? Americans? sister/wives?
I anxiously await your reply!

 

[progressive hunter]

like hell you have,, everytime I give a detailed explanation why youre wrong you go off in a different direction and ignore what I said,,,

What is your question? Every time i ask you for your question you go off and start telling me I'm wrong about something?
I'm probably wrong just like you say but I should at least be able to know what I'm so wrong about?
Something to do with M. Moore?
About America? Americans? sister/wives?
I anxiously await your reply!

how do you respond to my detailed explanations on why your view of wealth is wrong???

 

[Donald H]

like hell you have,, everytime I give a detailed explanation why youre wrong you go off in a different direction and ignore what I said,,,

What is your question? Every time i ask you for your question you go off and start telling me I'm wrong about something?
I'm probably wrong just like you say but I should at least be able to know what I'm so wrong about?
Something to do with M. Moore?
About America? Americans? sister/wives?
I anxiously await your reply!

how do you respond to my detailed explanations on why your view of wealth is wrong???

Good question!
I don't think wealth is wrong. I'm moderately wealthy myself and I've already spilled my guts on this forum to elaborate.

Next question? But please, give it some thought and make sure it's a valid question. This one just showed that you either haven't understood what I've said, didn't read what I said, or don't believe what I said.

A couple of million bucks to my name doesn't make me rich. It just puts me on perhaps the upper end of the Canadian working class. Some areas of Canada you can't even buy a decent house for less than a million bucks!

Next question?

 

[progressive hunter]

like hell you have,, everytime I give a detailed explanation why youre wrong you go off in a different direction and ignore what I said,,,

What is your question? Every time i ask you for your question you go off and start telling me I'm wrong about something?
I'm probably wrong just like you say but I should at least be able to know what I'm so wrong about?
Something to do with M. Moore?
About America? Americans? sister/wives?
I anxiously await your reply!

how do you respond to my detailed explanations on why your view of wealth is wrong???

Good question!
I don't think wealth is wrong. I'm moderately wealthy myself and I've already spilled my guts on this forum to elaborate.

Next question? But please, give it some thought and make sure it's a valid question. This one just showed that you either haven't understood what I've said, didn't read what I said, or don't believe what I said.

A couple of million bucks to my name doesn't make me rich. It just puts me on perhaps the upper end of the Canadian working class. Some areas of Canada you can't even buy a decent house for less than a million bucks!

Next question?

you dodged again,,,

my only assumption can be you know I'm right and have nothing left,,,

 

[Donald H]

you dodged again,,,

my only assumption can be you know I'm right and have nothing left,,,

I'm here to answer your questions but I'm not going to play along with any game you're trying to play with me. You get one more chance to ask me a question! If you fk up again you're cut off. Go scream out your woes to a moderator and maybe we can get this thread moved too.

Two minutes time limit.

 

[progressive hunter]

you dodged again,,,

my only assumption can be you know I'm right and have nothing left,,,

I'm here to answer your questions but I'm not going to play along with any game you're trying to play with me. You get one more chance to ask me a question! If you fk up again you're cut off. Go scream out your woes to a moderator and maybe we can get this thread moved too.

Two minutes time limit.

no games here,,

I just explained in detail how you were wrong about how wealth works for things like paying off the debt and you dodged it and went off in a different direction,

I can only assume you knew you were wrong and ran away from the discussion,,

this is after all a discussion forum not ask a dumbass forum,,,

 

[Donald H]

you dodged again,,,

my only assumption can be you know I'm right and have nothing left,,,

I'm here to answer your questions but I'm not going to play along with any game you're trying to play with me. You get one more chance to ask me a question! If you fk up again you're cut off. Go scream out your woes to a moderator and maybe we can get this thread moved too.

Two minutes time limit.

no games here,,

I just explained in detail how you were wrong about how wealth works for things like paying off the debt and you dodged it and went off in a different direction,

I can only assume you knew you were wrong and ran away from the discussion,,

this is after all a discussion forum not ask a dumbass forum,,,

We're done forever now sonny boy.

 

[progressive hunter]

you dodged again,,,

my only assumption can be you know I'm right and have nothing left,,,

I'm here to answer your questions but I'm not going to play along with any game you're trying to play with me. You get one more chance to ask me a question! If you fk up again you're cut off. Go scream out your woes to a moderator and maybe we can get this thread moved too.

Two minutes time limit.

no games here,,

I just explained in detail how you were wrong about how wealth works for things like paying off the debt and you dodged it and went off in a different direction,

I can only assume you knew you were wrong and ran away from the discussion,,

this is after all a discussion forum not ask a dumbass forum,,,

We're done forever now sonny boy.

its better for you to do that,, cause so far youve shown nothing other than youre a dumbass,,,

 

[progressive hunter]

you dodged again,,,

my only assumption can be you know I'm right and have nothing left,,,

I'm here to answer your questions but I'm not going to play along with any game you're trying to play with me. You get one more chance to ask me a question! If you fk up again you're cut off. Go scream out your woes to a moderator and maybe we can get this thread moved too.

Two minutes time limit.

no games here,,

I just explained in detail how you were wrong about how wealth works for things like paying off the debt and you dodged it and went off in a different direction,

I can only assume you knew you were wrong and ran away from the discussion,,

this is after all a discussion forum not ask a dumbass forum,,,

We're done forever now sonny boy.

 

[candycorn]

Cancel our debt to China as partial payment for the pandemic.

Right.... Um... Ok. Quick math. So as of July 2020, China had roughly $1 Trillion in US bonds.

The US national debt is $28 Trillion.

So, not going to solve our problem, is it?

Further, I learned back when I first moved out, that it didn't matter if I paid off a debt, if I was living in a way that racked up debt.

The only way to not have a debt problem, is to live on less than you make in income. Spend less... than you collect in income.

Similarly, as long as the US public wants to spend more than the government can collect in revenue, canceling debt will cause tons of problems, and we'll end up in debt anyway.

We need to cut spending. Cut welfare, unemployment, SNAP, housing, cut education, cut all entitlements.

If we don't do that, it doesn't matter if you cancel debt. You keep spending more than you collect, you end up with debt. That's how it works.

Lastly, the bond market is critical to borrowing money. The only reason anyone, anywhere, is willing to buy US bonds, is because they believe the US government will pay back the loan.

You cancel those bonds, and everyone everywhere in the world, will stop buying US bonds. They are not going to distinguish US bonds, from other US bonds, because they are all US bonds.

It would be like you and your neighbor both buying a health insurance policy with the same company. You find out the following week, that your neighbor got sick, and the company just decided to not honor the policy. Are you going to keep your policy with that company? Well yeah, that was him, not you... so you are safe? No, you would cancel that policy and buy from someone else.

Same thing in with bonds. No one is going to buy those bonds knowing we won't pay, if we decide to blame you for a virus.

If we can't borrow money, then Social Security or Medicare will be cut dramatically in a month.

Or... we would have to get an international bailout. Do you want to get bailed out by Europe? Because that's what happened with Greece. They went bankrupt, needed an international bailout, and suddenly you had people all over the EU, dictating Greek public policy. You want Europe or others dictating US policy, because we have to have a bailout, because we defaulted on our bonds like Greece did?

Very bad idea. Very bad. Your idea might well actually cause civil war, and a break up of the United States.

A Liberal, a conservative and an CEO walk into a room. The CEO puts 10 dollars on the table. The conservative takes 9 and gives the CEO 4 dollars back for a "political contribution" He pockets the remaining $5 telling while telling the African-American as they pick up the last dollar, "you can put the CEO's golf clubs in his truck now".

The conservative would not take $9. They would earn it. So the rest of what you said doesn't even make sense.

Conservatives, by definition, believe in value of work. It's based on the protestant work ethic.

Protestant work ethic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A conservative that believes in taking what others earned.... just simply isn't a conservative.

That would be like saying "A Vegan and a Cattle rancher walk into the room. The cattle rancher puts down a hamburger and the vegan eats it and says...." If the Vegan eats the hamburger, they are not a vegan.

Similarly, if the conservative takes someone else's money... they are not conservatives. If they earn the money, or if they sell you something for the money, then you might have a point. But conservatives don't take your money. Left-wingers do. Socialists do. Government does. But not conservatives. Doesn't happen.

Did the farmers give back their billions in subsidies and bailout monies? Or is Iowa, Kansas and Nebraska full of flaming liberals?

No, of course not. If you are stupid enough to give me your money, I'll take every dollar you are dumb enough to give me. Absolutely.

However from policy perspective, conservatives are against government subsidies of any kind.

But if your side wins the day, and offers for example, universal income benefits.... yeah I'll take your tax money. I'll vote against the policy until the day I die... but if you pass that socialist policy, I will quit my job, and soak you for every dollar I can get. You give me your cash, that's on you, not me.

But to the point, I've said this for years, that we should have no farm subsidies at all. That's one of the reasons conservatives opposed the Farm bill under Bush. And we opposed it under Trump.

Republicans Fume at Trump's $12 Billion Plan to Aid Farmers

"They want trade, not aid. It’s really just that simple"

time.com

“My thoughts are the thoughts of farmers. They want trade, not aid. It’s really just that simple,” said Senator Ron Johnson, a Republican from Wisconsin.

That right there.... Ron Johnson's position, is the conservative position.

Go back to 2008.

Conservative Republicans offer bailout alternative

A group of conservative Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives offered a mortgage insurance plan on Thursday as an alternative to the Bush administration's $700-billion Wall Street bailout.

www.reuters.com

A group of conservative Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives offered a mortgage insurance plan on Thursday as an alternative to the Bush administration’s $700-billion Wall Street bailout.

That right there, the private insurance model, as opposed to the tax payer funded bailout.... that is the conservative position.

We've been very consistent on this.

Yeah...your lie about conservatives wanting to "earn" money is crap...just like everything else you post.

You have the right to be wrong. Please continue.

You claimed they want to "earn" money one moment....then say they will happily keep the free socialist money from the government. You're contradicting yourself.

 

[Andylusion]

A bit of both, cut spending and raise income.

The debt is still lower than what it was just after WWII, I think.

After WWII, we had tax brackets in the 90% range.

And lower and middle class paid a larger portion of the tax burden.

High taxes results in people hiding their money.

 

[Andylusion]

He probably did that because he was a businessman and high corporate taxes ( paid always bu consumers) It's not like high corporate taxes cause Fortune 500 CEA's to drive Chevy's or their kids to have to wait in the long line at Amusement parks. No the consumer pays them. But businesses do leave the country because of them. When he got in office he lowered those corporate taxex and started to bring manufacturing back and caused a booming economy that for once reached doen the working man, many of thos poor blacks.

LOL...

As if Trump ever needed to launch a clothing line anyway.
Bottom line. He could have hired Americans....he hired Chinese folks. He is no friend to America or it's textile workers.

You don't know that. He could have hired Americans, and had it be so expensive, that he lost money.

No one is going to do that. No one is going to hire US labor, if the cost is too high, and you don't know the numbers on that. You are making an assumption.

Which again, is why Trump was trying to change the system to make hiring US labor more profitable. But that means not being greed and envy motivated, and trying to regulate and tax the crap out of US companies. Something left does not seem to have the mental capacity to understand.

American Apparel made products in Downtown Los Angeles while Trump was having stuff made in China.

American Apparel

Discover American Apparel Wholesale t-shirts and other blank American Apparel for your iconic premium basics with innovative fabrics, sweatshop free styles.

americanapparel.com

As always, your post is crap.

What are you smoking? Do you know anything at all about American Apparel?

American Apparel has filed for bankruptcy in the US

American Apparel had not made a profit since 2009

www.independent.co.uk

American Apparel had not made a profit since 2009.​

​

The retailer said the restructuring will slash debt by $165 million (£108.4 million) to $135 million by eliminating $200 million in bonds in return for equity in the revamped company.​

American Apparel starts laying off 2,400 workers in Southern California

American Apparel began to lay off 2,400 workers in Southern California on Monday — kicking off its final chapter as the country’s largest garment maker.

web.archive.org

Canadian clothing maker Gildan Activewear won an auction in bankruptcy court last week to buy the American Apparel brand and some manufacturing equipment for $88 million. The company will not assume American Apparel’s leases on its factories.​

The new American Apparel: claims of 'ethically made' abroad clash with reality

The company was sold to Gildan and moved operations outside the US – now the idea the brand was based upon clashes with what workers actually experience

www.theguardian.com

Under a page headlined “Sweatshop Free Stories” on American Apparel’s website is a video profile of a young Honduran man, Heber Lopez, a garment worker at one of the factories in San Antonio, Honduras responsible for producing the retailer’s clothing.​

Candy.... That post you made, explains to me how left-wing politicians are able to dupe so many non-thinking lemmings into doing whatever they say.

You just posted a link to American Apparel, claiming they made clothing in downtown LA.

The reality is, American Apparel lost money for years on end, went bankrupt, sold off all their American factories, and all their clothing is made in Honduras and Nicaragua.

But you read a internet post, or the companies web site, that said "Ethical Sweatshop free".

Right? You just bought that, without thinking, without questioning?

You know those Trumpers that believed the election was stolen because Trump said so, without thinking, without questioning? You are no better. You are just like them. You just proved it, with that post.

Trump has filed for bankruptcy 6 times and you're in love with him....so this should make AA pretty attractive to you.

The bottom line is that Trump could have hired Americans...he hired Chinese people instead. He is no friend to the American worker.

That is the business envirnoment that corporate taxes, their holeholes and related lobbying created. Trump dropped corporate taxes ( which are always paid by the consumer) and manufacturing began to come back. Will Biden keep those taxes low? Poor people unemployment is driven by a lack of manufacturing so if he really cares there is only one choice. As for the bankrupcies, the rich and connected need to pass laws to make that kind of thing more difficult. That is super rich going bankrupt while their other business ventures are untouched.

If ALL of the corporate taxes were paid by the consumer the corporations wouldn`t be constantly whining about them would they?Manufacturing has been coming back since 2013 when fracking lowered production costs here while the cost of energy rose 138% in China. Corporate tax rates have loopholes you can drive an Amtrak engine through.
The biggest corporate tax loopholes in the US tax code (lynda.com)

No, that's wrong. First, most corporations were not whining about in corporate tax. The people who look at the corporate taxes, and their effects were the ones complaining, and rightly so.

Apple Computer for example, openly admitted, to what is obvious to everyone on the planet, that the reason they invested in Ireland, was because of the favorable tax rates.

An estimate is that American companies prior to the tax cut, had between $1 Trillion, to $2.5 Trillion in overseas cash, that they were holding out of the country to avoid the high taxes.

Further, of course all taxes are passed onto the consumer or the employee. I don't really understand where you think money comes from.

If I have $100, and the government takes half of it. Can I pay you $100? No. If you refuse to work for $50, where do I get the money to pay you more? From the customer.

So either you the employee get paid less, or I have to charge the customer more, to make up for what the government confiscated from me.

Where exactly does your magic money supposedly come from?