Socialized medicine does not work...

[Toro]

I broke my ankle hiking in Nova Scotia a while ago.

Went to a hospital and got fixed up in under two hours. On the way out, they reluctantly gave me a bill for $125 because I was not a citizen.

I wonder what it would have cost here in the states.

Ad a zero and change the 1 to a 6.

 

[Toro]

What I will say in the defense of the US system is that the do a shit load of R&D compared to a lot of other countries...

I'd rather be in the US system than any other tbh.

But that's because I make a good living.

If I was poor, I'd rather be in Canada.

 

[my2¢]

I hope to see socialized medicine made to work. 1st for our veterans and next for those under the age of 18 who shouldn't have to suffer because of the situation they were born into.

 

[Rustic]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

It works for me, here in Canada, or more specifically, in Manitoba.

I had no problem to find a family doctor when we moved here. I never had any trouble getting an appointment with him. I never had to wait at a lab, for a blood test, x-ray or for an MRI. I had no problem going to a specialist, when referred to one by my family doctor. I pay for my prescription, which is quite a bit less in Canada than - as I hear - would be in the States. If my income would be less I would qualify for them, having reached deductible.

I am 78 years old,with the accompanying aches and pains, yet I never suffered from lack of medical attention.

Mind you, I never go to see a doctor with a sniffle, a hangnail or paper cut.

Responsibly used, socialized medicine is not the ultimate evil described by the rabid right. Basically it is much like American Medicare with qualifying age at birth, rather than 65.

According to most Americans Medicare is OK. So, what's the problem?

Like millions people just like me have no right to healthcare… But I have the right to earn my healthcare.

Your Constitution gives you the right to pursue happiness. What can make you more happy than good health?

In Canada we have a right to health care, and we have a right to seek and earn BETTER health care if we are not happy with the one we have.

That is like that in all Western countries, if I am not mistaken.

I have zero right to healthcare… But I have every right to earn my healthcare

 

[Andylusion]

I hope to see socialized medicine made to work. 1st for our veterans and next for those under the age of 18 who shouldn't have to suffer because of the situation they were born into.

I hope to see the day when the chocolate cake only diet is made to work. 1st for our children, and next for teenagers.

Socialism never works. Never. Not one time in all of human history has it worked. Every time, when you socialized the system, the system implodes. It's the only economic system with a 100% failure rate.

You need to stop trying to dream up a Utopian vision, and start seeing the world for how it really is, and really works.

 

[Andylusion]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

BS, people living in countries with socialized medicine live just as long or longer than people do here!

First off, we have the highest life expectancy in the world excluding traumatic injury.

Second, life expectancy isn't all that relative to health care. There are monks that live in monasteries, that never do anything, never go anywhere, eat healthy every single day, are miles away from civilization, and never go to hospital, and live long happy lives.

Point being, zero health care, and they live really long lives.

Another example, breast cancer in Japan. Japanese have very very low cancer incident rates. Extremely low. Almost 1/2 the incident rate of the US. If you look at so-called 'medical preventable deaths', due to breast cancer in Japan, it's extremely low, compared to the US which is much higher.

However there's a reason, it's because fewer people get breast cancer, by almost half. What does the hospital do, that prevents women from ever getting cancer? Nothing. So this fact is completely relevant to the health care system.

But look a survival rates. Your chances of surviving breast cancer in Japan... 50%. In the US... 90% Which place has the better health care? We do. By far. Massively better than Japans.

Life expectancy is irrelevant to health care. It does not reflect the quality of care, at all.

 

[Andylusion]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

It works for me, here in Canada, or more specifically, in Manitoba.

I had no problem to find a family doctor when we moved here. I never had any trouble getting an appointment with him. I never had to wait at a lab, for a blood test, x-ray or for an MRI. I had no problem going to a specialist, when referred to one by my family doctor. I pay for my prescription, which is quite a bit less in Canada than - as I hear - would be in the States. If my income would be less I would qualify for them, having reached deductible.

I am 78 years old,with the accompanying aches and pains, yet I never suffered from lack of medical attention.

Mind you, I never go to see a doctor with a sniffle, a hangnail or paper cut.

Responsibly used, socialized medicine is not the ultimate evil described by the rabid right. Basically it is much like American Medicare with qualifying age at birth, rather than 65.

According to most Americans Medicare is OK. So, what's the problem?

Like millions people just like me have no right to healthcare… But I have the right to earn my healthcare.

Your Constitution gives you the right to pursue happiness. What can make you more happy than good health?

In Canada we have a right to health care, and we have a right to seek and earn BETTER health care if we are not happy with the one we have.

That is like that in all Western countries, if I am not mistaken.

The problem with that, is this.... Socialized health care makes private health care even more expensive, while at the same time, makes you less able to pay for better care.

First, it makes it more expensive. I trust you understand fundamentals of a free market, meaning that providers build their services to meet the market they are trying to get. Right?

Just like a car manufacturer that is aiming for the super high end buyer, doesn't make a clone of a Chevrolet Spark, right? You make a Lexus, or BMW, or Audi A4.

But if your target is the low income consumers, then you make the Chevy Spark, and the Toyota Yaris, and others. You build a product or service, designed for the target consumers.

But what happens if Government provides a subsidized car, for the lowest income people? Then all those other cars disappear. Because who is going to buy a car designed for low income, when you can get the Gov-car for cheap, or free? As a result, all the low-income type cars are eliminated, and if the gov-car has a shortage, or becomes really crappy, there is no cheap private market alternative.

Similarly, in New York when they put in place rent controls and subsidized housing, all the low income apartments disappeared. Instead everyone started supplying luxury apartments, and low-income apartments started disappearing from the market. As a result you had housing shortages.

The exact same thing happens in health care. If the government provides cheap health care to low income people, then private health care providers ditch the market. They start providing only expensive care, to high income people.

Because that's their market now. All the low income people, go to the public gov-care centers because it's cheap or free. As a result they want to role out the red carpet, and have expensive high end everything. Same day service, any time you want, and it's all expensive.

At the exact same time, on the other side of the equation, the people now have less money to buy this more expensive service of private health care, because their income is taxed away to pay for the public gov-care.

So it's easy to say "well if they don't like the government care, they can pay for private care", but gov-care makes private care more expensive, and at the same time they have less money to pay for private care.

In effect, gov-care dooms people to be trapped in terrible care, and there often isn't the ability to pay for quality care, because low-income care isn't available anymore, and your money was taxed away to pay for crappy gov-care.

 

[JQPublic1]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

BS, people living in countries with socialized medicine live just as long or longer than people do here!

First off, we have the highest life expectancy in the world excluding traumatic injury.

Second, life expectancy isn't all that relative to health care. There are monks that live in monasteries, that never do anything, never go anywhere, eat healthy every single day, are miles away from civilization, and never go to hospital, and live long happy lives.

Point being, zero health care, and they live really long lives.

Another example, breast cancer in Japan. Japanese have very very low cancer incident rates. Extremely low. Almost 1/2 the incident rate of the US. If you look at so-called 'medical preventable deaths', due to breast cancer in Japan, it's extremely low, compared to the US which is much higher.

However there's a reason, it's because fewer people get breast cancer, by almost half. What does the hospital do, that prevents women from ever getting cancer? Nothing. So this fact is completely relevant to the health care system.

But look a survival rates. Your chances of surviving breast cancer in Japan... 50%. In the US... 90% Which place has the better health care? We do. By far. Massively better than Japans.

Life expectancy is irrelevant to health care. It does not reflect the quality of care, at all.

According to the list published by WHO,the USA is 31st on the list for average longevity for males and females.

 

[there4eyeM]

Is it really not apparent to people that current systems are mostly a blend of '-isms', and not 'pure' anything? Do people really think 'capitalism' is anything more than one economic approach among others? Do they think that the 'capitalism' of the industrial age was benevolent and kind? Do they not see that exploitation led to the rise of opposing ideas, and that a human approach would have obviated violence?

 

[ScienceRocks]

The op is clueless of the world that he live in! Single payer works in every single developed country on earth besides the United states and works very well. Everyone deserves healthcare and it is good for society...

The op just loves to see people suffer and lose everything they own because of massive debt.

 

[ScienceRocks]

It is much cheaper and better working then private sector healthcare! The shit that was driving us deep into debt and with rising cost higher then the ACA yearly...

 

[wizwhite]

There is no way It can work in the US... there are too many parasites in society

What do you call parasites?

Me? The insurance companies are the parasites...

Millions that live in urban areas expecting something for nothing

 

[wizwhite]

socialize......is that like going to a party and talking to people? I am guilty of that dirty deed of interacting with people. I totally get the parasite deal. I once stayed at a motel in an urban area which had bed bugs.

 

[JQPublic1]

First off, we have the highest life expectancy in the world excluding traumatic injury.

Second, life expectancy isn't all that relative to health care. There are monks that live in monasteries, that never do anything, never go anywhere, eat healthy every single day, are miles away from civilization, and never go to hospital, and live long happy lives. .

Point being, zero health care, and they live really long lives.

I would concede that the austere lives monks lead contributes to the longevity of some. The stress of civilization combined with industrial pollution exacts a costly toll on the health of the rest of us. But as the list I provided in #148 shows, my observation leads me to believe that we aren't getting our money's worth.We aren't really loving any longer than those people in countries with socialized medicine. In fact socialized medicine seems to be one contributing factor that correlates to living longer and healthier And when I look at the 240,000 preventable deaths that occur in the USA each year due to medical error, my belief turns into validation. My point? US citizens are getting ripped off.

Another example, breast cancer in Japan. Japanese have very very low cancer incident rates. Extremely low. Almost 1/2 the incident rate of the US. If you look at so-called 'medical preventable deaths', due to breast cancer in Japan, it's extremely low, compared to the US which is much higher.

However there's a reason, it's because fewer people get breast cancer, by almost half. What does the hospital do, that prevents women from ever getting cancer? Nothing. So this fact is completely relevant to the health care system.

But look a survival rates. Your chances of surviving breast cancer in Japan... 50%. In the US... 90% Which place has the better health care? We do. By far. Massively better than Japans.

Life expectancy is irrelevant to health care. It does not reflect the quality of care, at all.

Japan tops the list of longevity rates by country. But there are 29 more ahead of US on that list.
And not all listed in that group live as the Japanese do. France, Germany, Greece, Spain and Italy, all beacons of socialized medicine, leave us in the dust.

 

[wizwhite]

Japan tops the list of longevity rates by country. But there are 29 more ahead of US on that list.

I remember in my misguided youth thinking how great it would be to be 95 in a wheel chair oblivious to the world around me because I beat the longevity rates.

 

[Rustic]

The op is clueless of the world that he live in! Single payer works in every single developed country on earth besides the United states and works very well. Everyone deserves healthcare and it is good for society...

The op just loves to see people suffer and lose everything they own because of massive debt.

Who pays for the shit? Robin Hood?
Single payer would destroy millions of lives…

 

[NYcarbineer]

Medicaid is socialized medicine. What would work better that wasn't 'socialized'?

 

[my2¢]

I hope to see socialized medicine made to work. 1st for our veterans and next for those under the age of 18 who shouldn't have to suffer because of the situation they were born into.

I hope to see the day when the chocolate cake only diet is made to work. 1st for our children, and next for teenagers.

Socialism never works. Never. Not one time in all of human history has it worked. Every time, when you socialized the system, the system implodes. It's the only economic system with a 100% failure rate.

You need to stop trying to dream up a Utopian vision, and start seeing the world for how it really is, and really works.

Facts do not support your premise. Additionally if you believe the capitalistic approach to medicine is any sort of panacea you're simply blind to the issue that in such system adequate care is limited to a select portion of the population. Medical expenses has long been the main cause for personal bankruptcy (62%) in the US, even though in most of those cases (78%) had some insurance.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

That's the entire crux of your argument?

 

[Rustic]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

That's the entire crux of your argument?

Its a failed concept from the start... only dumbass's would think it had chance from the beginning.
Thats why i have always said its about control, never has been about "healthcare"