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There are several relatively painless ways the program can be modified for indefinite solvency.
1) Increase the eligibility age to occur in proportion with actuarial life expectancy when the program was conceived.
2) Eliminate the contribution cap.
3) Impose a means test. In my own example, if my monthly benefit were reduced by up to $200 I really wouldn't feel it. And there are many for whom the monthly benefit would be redundantly trivial and wholly unnecessary.*
(*Social Security is an insurance program, not an investment. Qualification for payment could be determined by level of existing personal assets without negatively affecting anyone.)
And FDR would be so proud of the way that you've just dismembered and roasted his dream of UNIVERSAL coverage for ALL workers...
SS is expected to pay out more than it takes in by 2017, and go bankrupt by 2035.
You keep making these claims and then running away from debating them. Here's a link to the old thread where I explained to you why you're wrong. Perhaps you can reply in this thread :
http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...t-a-ponzi-scheme-mr-perry-60.html#post4150061
You do realize that in 2010 social security paid out more than it brought in?
SS is expected to pay out more than it takes in by 2017, and go bankrupt by 2035.
It already pays out more than it brings in. According to social security trustee Charles Blahous SS paid out more in benefits than it collected in taxes for 2010. He also said, "it's running in the red and it's only solvent in the sense that the Gov't has a legal obligation to fill up that gap between incoming taxes and outgoing benefits."
Ponzi schemes are ponzi schemes because they have new investors.Social Security insolvency is a right wing myth meant to scare you.
Seriously. A few points:
1) Many morons have called SS a Ponzi scheme. This is a brain dead characterization. The reason Ponzi schemes fail is because they eventually run out of new investors. Unless we stop having children - there will always be new tax revenues into the system.
2) If nothing is done, Social Security can continue to pay benefits under current law for at least a couple of decades. After that, it can only pay benefits at about 80% - but for as far as can be seen into the future, it can continue to pay at that level - thus, even if the politicians do absolutely nothing - 80% of the program is solvent for as far as can be forecast.
3) Ultimately, the ability of a society to support its retirees and disabled - that is, the ability of those who produce to produce enough for those who cannot produce (either because they are too old to work, or disabled) - doesn't really depend on the particular investment vehicle that those who do not produce use. If the worker to retiree ratio is 2:1 as opposed to 10:1, the workers in the 2:1 situation will have to produce more for the retirees than those in the 10:1 situation. The only exceptions are things that you can actually save for retirement - like a house. Other than your house - everything you need in retirement will have to be made by somebody during (or right before) your retirement.
4) Social Security taxes do not get wasted - most of them go to pay current benefits. If their is extra, the trust fund buys bonds. If their is not enough, they sell some of their bonds. This does push the burden around in time - this is no secret and no one ever tried to cover it up - but over many decades, the SS Trust Fund will spend the same as it takes in (plus interest paid on its Trust Fund balance).
SS is expected to pay out more than it takes in by 2017, and go bankrupt by 2035.
It already pays out more than it brings in. According to social security trustee Charles Blahous SS paid out more in benefits than it collected in taxes for 2010. He also said, "it's running in the red and it's only solvent in the sense that the Gov't has a legal obligation to fill up that gap between incoming taxes and outgoing benefits."
SS is expected to pay out more than it takes in by 2017, and go bankrupt by 2035.
Something like that but it is currently solvent.
So you're admitting that we have a looming crisis...but you'd like us to pretend it isn't happening because it doesn't jibe with your political view?
Then why couldn't your beloved one guarantee the checks would go out?SS is solvent that is a fact. The 2+ trillion that the US govt owes SS is the only problem for a couple of decades.
Why do you lefty's keep ignoring that question?
SS is expected to pay out more than it takes in by 2017, and go bankrupt by 2035.
It already pays out more than it brings in. According to social security trustee Charles Blahous SS paid out more in benefits than it collected in taxes for 2010. He also said, "it's running in the red and it's only solvent in the sense that the Gov't has a legal obligation to fill up that gap between incoming taxes and outgoing benefits."
Umm the govt holding over 2 trillion in promissory notes for the surplus they spent has nothing to do with this?
I guess the entire fininacial community is insolvent because without the promissory notes they hold they are insolvent?
It appears to me that many/most right wingers are crying this insolvent cry because they do not want the govt to repay it's promissory notes to the SS ssytem. aka the American people.
It already pays out more than it brings in. According to social security trustee Charles Blahous SS paid out more in benefits than it collected in taxes for 2010. He also said, "it's running in the red and it's only solvent in the sense that the Gov't has a legal obligation to fill up that gap between incoming taxes and outgoing benefits."
Umm the govt holding over 2 trillion in promissory notes for the surplus they spent has nothing to do with this?
I guess the entire fininacial community is insolvent because without the promissory notes they hold they are insolvent?
It appears to me that many/most right wingers are crying this insolvent cry because they do not want the govt to repay it's promissory notes to the SS ssytem. aka the American people.
They're holding "Notes" that can only be sold to the entity that is over $1Trillion in annual deficit
WAKE THE FUCK UP!
Social Security insolvency is a right wing myth meant to scare you.
Seriously. A few points:
1) Many morons have called SS a Ponzi scheme. This is a brain dead characterization. The reason Ponzi schemes fail is because they eventually run out of new investors. Unless we stop having children - there will always be new tax revenues into the system.
2) If nothing is done, Social Security can continue to pay benefits under current law for at least a couple of decades. After that, it can only pay benefits at about 80% - but for as far as can be seen into the future, it can continue to pay at that level - thus, even if the politicians do absolutely nothing - 80% of the program is solvent for as far as can be forecast.
3) Ultimately, the ability of a society to support its retirees and disabled - that is, the ability of those who produce to produce enough for those who cannot produce (either because they are too old to work, or disabled) - doesn't really depend on the particular investment vehicle that those who do not produce use. If the worker to retiree ratio is 2:1 as opposed to 10:1, the workers in the 2:1 situation will have to produce more for the retirees than those in the 10:1 situation. The only exceptions are things that you can actually save for retirement - like a house. Other than your house - everything you need in retirement will have to be made by somebody during (or right before) your retirement.
4) Social Security taxes do not get wasted - most of them go to pay current benefits. If their is extra, the trust fund buys bonds. If their is not enough, they sell some of their bonds. This does push the burden around in time - this is no secret and no one ever tried to cover it up - but over many decades, the SS Trust Fund will spend the same as it takes in (plus interest paid on its Trust Fund balance).
Social Security insolvency is a right wing myth meant to scare you.
Seriously. A few points:
1) Many morons have called SS a Ponzi scheme. This is a brain dead characterization. The reason Ponzi schemes fail is because they eventually run out of new investors. Unless we stop having children - there will always be new tax revenues into the system.
2) If nothing is done, Social Security can continue to pay benefits under current law for at least a couple of decades. After that, it can only pay benefits at about 80% - but for as far as can be seen into the future, it can continue to pay at that level - thus, even if the politicians do absolutely nothing - 80% of the program is solvent for as far as can be forecast.
3) Ultimately, the ability of a society to support its retirees and disabled - that is, the ability of those who produce to produce enough for those who cannot produce (either because they are too old to work, or disabled) - doesn't really depend on the particular investment vehicle that those who do not produce use. If the worker to retiree ratio is 2:1 as opposed to 10:1, the workers in the 2:1 situation will have to produce more for the retirees than those in the 10:1 situation. The only exceptions are things that you can actually save for retirement - like a house. Other than your house - everything you need in retirement will have to be made by somebody during (or right before) your retirement.
4) Social Security taxes do not get wasted - most of them go to pay current benefits. If there is extra, the trust fund buys bonds. If their is not enough, they sell some of their bonds. This does push the burden around in time - this is no secret and no one ever tried to cover it up - but over many decades, the SS Trust Fund will spend the same as it takes in (plus interest paid on its Trust Fund balance).
1. It is a ponzi scheme because the population is declining, and the unemployment rate is increasing, which means not enough money to meet obligations (in 2037)
2. Correct, but its better to fix SS now than to wait
3. Not an accounting major are you? Please read the SS Trustee Report. (SS is fixable Medicare is a mess)
4. Its the COMBINATION of SS & Medicare entitlements that is the problem. They OWE $50-trillion in benefits, and can't cover them all. We need them fixed, not idiots who keep saying "there is no problem".
Trustees Report Summary
Conclusion
Projected long-run program costs for both Medicare and Social Security are not sustainable under currently scheduled financing, and will require legislative corrections if disruptive consequences for beneficiaries and taxpayers are to be avoided.
"I cannot guarantee that those checks go out on August 3rd if we haven't resolved this issue. Because there may simply not be the money in the coffers to do it" Barack "Social Security Really is Bankrupt" Obama, the Downgraded President
Social Security insolvency is a right wing myth meant to scare you.
Seriously. A few points:
1) Many morons have called SS a Ponzi scheme. This is a brain dead characterization. The reason Ponzi schemes fail is because they eventually run out of new investors. Unless we stop having children - there will always be new tax revenues into the system.
2) If nothing is done, Social Security can continue to pay benefits under current law for at least a couple of decades. After that, it can only pay benefits at about 80% - but for as far as can be seen into the future, it can continue to pay at that level - thus, even if the politicians do absolutely nothing - 80% of the program is solvent for as far as can be forecast.
3) Ultimately, the ability of a society to support its retirees and disabled - that is, the ability of those who produce to produce enough for those who cannot produce (either because they are too old to work, or disabled) - doesn't really depend on the particular investment vehicle that those who do not produce use. If the worker to retiree ratio is 2:1 as opposed to 10:1, the workers in the 2:1 situation will have to produce more for the retirees than those in the 10:1 situation. The only exceptions are things that you can actually save for retirement - like a house. Other than your house - everything you need in retirement will have to be made by somebody during (or right before) your retirement.
4) Social Security taxes do not get wasted - most of them go to pay current benefits. If their is extra, the trust fund buys bonds. If their is not enough, they sell some of their bonds. This does push the burden around in time - this is no secret and no one ever tried to cover it up - but over many decades, the SS Trust Fund will spend the same as it takes in (plus interest paid on its Trust Fund balance).
If Social Security insolvency is a myth why did obama use social security checks as a hostage to get the debt ceiling limit raised?
If Social Security insolvency is a myth why did obama use social security checks as a hostage to get the debt ceiling limit raised?
Umm if the people that prinit the checks are liad off no checks will be printed.
Kind of like going to your bank on a holiday, money in there but you can't get it out.
Have you ever heard of direct deposit? I may be wrong but I think thats how it works now.
They're holding "Notes" that can only be sold to the entity that is over $1Trillion in annual deficit
LOL! A PERSON still has to initiated the process.
I'm 34. To all you new borns out their -guess what? In 34 years, when I'm 68, and you're 34 - you're going to be sending me a fraction of your income. Why? Because I'm doing the same thing right now for the old people of today. Because the young take care of the old. That's the way it works, call it communism or just plain common sense - but expect it to be part of your duty as productive citizens.
