Social Programs.

[froggy]

CBS Falsely Reports Rand Study on the Cost of Illegal Immigration ...Apr 30, 2008 ... The truth is illegal immigration cost this country $565 BILLION a YEAR! When 7.5 million people are out of work because 12 to 20 million ...
newsbusters.org/.../cbs-falsely-reports-rand-study-cost-illegal-immigration -

 

[Immanuel]

How can you balance a budget or stop spending when your spending on people who shouldn't even be here?

We have a tax base that is big enough to support social services programs if we would cut other unnecessary expenses. For instance, we could cut some of the defense budget... not all, but some. We could tighten our belts in that area... if we wanted to. There are many, many, many areas that we could cut or eliminate if we wanted to... with the resolve to do so and we could still provide for the hungry without even batting an eye. We have the resources but not the resolve.

Immie

Why do you want to support illegals, isn't that like aiding and abetting a criminal

What makes them criminals? The fact that on one hand we beg them to come in here offering a better life than they had at home and on the other hand we tell them that only so many are allowed to come here? They would not come if we did not throw our doors wide open and beg for them.

I look at it more as aiding and abetting the hungry.

As for "wanting" to support them, I don't believe I said I wanted to support them. I think I said that I did not have a problem feeding them, providing shelter or necessary healthcare. That doesn't have anything to do with wanting.

On the other hand, I would rather feed the hungry rather than fund every Congressman's re-election campaign... i.e. the slush funds they get by selling out to lobbyists.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Just check what there costing each state the figures are astounding. You want to pay down the deffict put this money toward it.

Do you have any links as to the costs or did I miss one you provided?

Are you talking about a governmental estimate on the costs associated with illegal aliens? Because if you are, then that cost simply depends on what the politician is trying to sell today and can be astronomical or miniscule depending on what they want.

Immie

 

[Claudette]

If you want to know the truth, I don't look at it that way. I don't really care if illegal aliens are getting U.S. social service dollars without paying their fair share of taxes. Honestly, there are enough American citizens who are getting social service dollars without paying their fair share of taxes.

What I do care about is our government's view that they can spend dollars we don't have. As far as I am concerned, we need to balance the budget and I don't care how that is done. Time to ax the pork! But, I'm not so concerned about the poor (US Citizens or not) receiving food to eat, shelter to live in and even necessary medical services.

Edit: let me clarify that. A human life is worth spending money on whether or not it is a U.S. Citizen. We can cut enough pork out of the budget and make other cuts (many of which will make things a little tougher) and still provide for those who are starving and in need.

???

Immie

How can you balance a budget or stop spending when your spending on people who shouldn't even be here?

We have a tax base that is big enough to support social services programs if we would cut other unnecessary expenses. For instance, we could cut some of the defense budget... not all, but some. We could tighten our belts in that area... if we wanted to. There are many, many, many areas that we could cut or eliminate if we wanted to... with the resolve to do so and we could still provide for the hungry without even batting an eye. We have the resources but not the resolve.

Immie

Funny how you don't seem to mind our taxdollars going to support illegals. I mind, big time. These people need to go back to Mexico.

If they want to come here let them do it legally.

 

[Immanuel]

How can you balance a budget or stop spending when your spending on people who shouldn't even be here?

We have a tax base that is big enough to support social services programs if we would cut other unnecessary expenses. For instance, we could cut some of the defense budget... not all, but some. We could tighten our belts in that area... if we wanted to. There are many, many, many areas that we could cut or eliminate if we wanted to... with the resolve to do so and we could still provide for the hungry without even batting an eye. We have the resources but not the resolve.

Immie

Funny how you don't seem to mind our taxdollars going to support illegals. I mind, big time. These people need to go back to Mexico.

If they want to come here let them do it legally.

You and I agree on a lot of things, but on this we differ.

It is okay that you mind and I can understand what you are saying, but when you think about it, I think you will realize that we invite and in fact need illegal aliens. We entice them to come here because most of us won't do the manual labor that they will do. Our government has set a ridiculously low limit on the number of aliens that can come into the States each year edit: but then we the people/employers make it lucrative for them to risk being caught and deported. We want them here and as long as we want them here and are willing to pay for it, they are going to come.

It is the government's fault. We don't have to give them permanent status, but we want them here and as long as we are willing to pay them, they are going to come.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

And besides that, Claudette, I would rather feed the hungry children of the world then pad the pockets of Congressmen with pork.

Immie

 

[froggy]

We have a tax base that is big enough to support social services programs if we would cut other unnecessary expenses. For instance, we could cut some of the defense budget... not all, but some. We could tighten our belts in that area... if we wanted to. There are many, many, many areas that we could cut or eliminate if we wanted to... with the resolve to do so and we could still provide for the hungry without even batting an eye. We have the resources but not the resolve.

Immie

Funny how you don't seem to mind our taxdollars going to support illegals. I mind, big time. These people need to go back to Mexico.

If they want to come here let them do it legally.

You and I agree on a lot of things, but on this we differ.

It is okay that you mind and I can understand what you are saying, but when you think about it, I think you will realize that we invite and in fact need illegal aliens. We entice them to come here because most of us won't do the manual labor that they will do. Our government has set a ridiculously low limit on the number of aliens that can come into the States each year edit: but then we the people/employers make it lucrative for them to risk being caught and deported. We want them here and as long as we want them here and are willing to pay for it, they are going to come.

It is the government's fault. We don't have to give them permanent status, but we want them here and as long as we are willing to pay them, they are going to come.

Immie

Quit handing out everything to your children, and they'll do those jobs.

 

[Immanuel]

Funny how you don't seem to mind our taxdollars going to support illegals. I mind, big time. These people need to go back to Mexico.

If they want to come here let them do it legally.

You and I agree on a lot of things, but on this we differ.

It is okay that you mind and I can understand what you are saying, but when you think about it, I think you will realize that we invite and in fact need illegal aliens. We entice them to come here because most of us won't do the manual labor that they will do. Our government has set a ridiculously low limit on the number of aliens that can come into the States each year edit: but then we the people/employers make it lucrative for them to risk being caught and deported. We want them here and as long as we want them here and are willing to pay for it, they are going to come.

It is the government's fault. We don't have to give them permanent status, but we want them here and as long as we are willing to pay them, they are going to come.

Immie

Quit handing out everything to your children, and they'll do those jobs.

No they won't... neither would yours... and on top of that, I don't want my kids doing many of those jobs.

edit: And beyond that, it would still mean that those hungry children (the children of illegal aliens) would still be hungry and starving so I would still feel better about helping them rather than padding the pockets of Congressmen.

It is called compassion and yes! Dammit!!!! Conservatives can be compassionate!!!!!!

Immie

 

[froggy]

You and I agree on a lot of things, but on this we differ.

It is okay that you mind and I can understand what you are saying, but when you think about it, I think you will realize that we invite and in fact need illegal aliens. We entice them to come here because most of us won't do the manual labor that they will do. Our government has set a ridiculously low limit on the number of aliens that can come into the States each year edit: but then we the people/employers make it lucrative for them to risk being caught and deported. We want them here and as long as we want them here and are willing to pay for it, they are going to come.

It is the government's fault. We don't have to give them permanent status, but we want them here and as long as we are willing to pay them, they are going to come.

Immie

Quit handing out everything to your children, and they'll do those jobs.

No they won't... neither would yours... and on top of that, I don't want my kids doing many of those jobs.

edit: And beyond that, it would still mean that those hungry children (the children of illegal aliens) would still be hungry and starving so I would still feel better about helping them rather than padding the pockets of Congressmen.

It is called compassion and yes! Dammit!!!! Conservatives can be compassionate!!!!!!

Immie

Mine did those jobs, it taught them if they wanted to have something they had to work it made them appreciate things, and they're pride in their accomplishments

 

[Claudette]

Quit handing out everything to your children, and they'll do those jobs.

No they won't... neither would yours... and on top of that, I don't want my kids doing many of those jobs.

edit: And beyond that, it would still mean that those hungry children (the children of illegal aliens) would still be hungry and starving so I would still feel better about helping them rather than padding the pockets of Congressmen.

It is called compassion and yes! Dammit!!!! Conservatives can be compassionate!!!!!!

Immie

Mine did those jobs, it taught them if they wanted to have something they had to work it made them appreciate things, and they're pride in their accomplishments

As did I growinig up. We all had chores from mowing the lawn, taking out garbage, housework, babysitting. YOu name it and I did it as a kid. The only difference was we weren't paid a salary to do any of it. I did all of that as a kid and I learned a lot.

Immi your right. I do agree with a lot that you say but I just can't stomach my taxdollar being used to take care of people who are here illegally.

I have no problem with legal immigration at all. Just illegals and the fact that these folks think we are a never ending supply of hard free social servicees.

I place a most of the blame on our Govt because THEY WILL NOT SECURE THE BORDER. If they did that we would not be having this conversation. Politics plain and simple.

We should have a work plan like Canada does where we tell the Mexicans how many workers we need. They come in. Do the work and go home. They do not stay in Canada and suck off their social services. Will this ever happen. Ain't holding my breath.

The next think I expect to see is blanket amnesty for all the illegals and their extended families.

 

[Immanuel]

No they won't... neither would yours... and on top of that, I don't want my kids doing many of those jobs.

edit: And beyond that, it would still mean that those hungry children (the children of illegal aliens) would still be hungry and starving so I would still feel better about helping them rather than padding the pockets of Congressmen.

It is called compassion and yes! Dammit!!!! Conservatives can be compassionate!!!!!!

Immie

Mine did those jobs, it taught them if they wanted to have something they had to work it made them appreciate things, and they're pride in their accomplishments

As did I growinig up. We all had chores from mowing the lawn, taking out garbage, housework, babysitting. YOu name it and I did it as a kid. The only difference was we weren't paid a salary to do any of it. I did all of that as a kid and I learned a lot.

Immi your right. I do agree with a lot that you say but I just can't stomach my taxdollar being used to take care of people who are here illegally.

I have no problem with legal immigration at all. Just illegals and the fact that these folks think we are a never ending supply of hard free social servicees.

I place a most of the blame on our Govt because THEY WILL NOT SECURE THE BORDER. If they did that we would not be having this conversation. Politics plain and simple.

We should have a work plan like Canada does where we tell the Mexicans how many workers we need. They come in. Do the work and go home. They do not stay in Canada and suck off their social services. Will this ever happen. Ain't holding my breath.

The next think I expect to see is blanket amnesty for all the illegals and their extended families.

I am not talking about mowing the lawn and yard work. I am talking about the back breaking work of picking fruits and vegetables and the "dirty work" that spoiled American children won't do. The low paying jobs that spoiled American children are too good to do like the janitorial workers that Walmart got busted for several years ago. We Americans expect to start at the top and finish at the top. We won't do those things that are "beneath us" any more but we will hire illegals under the table and save the payroll taxes we would have paid for them.

And again, I'm not saying I like this. I'm simply saying that I would rather support the poor rather than corrupt politicians and their pork.

Immie

 

[froggy]

Mine did those jobs, it taught them if they wanted to have something they had to work it made them appreciate things, and they're pride in their accomplishments

As did I growinig up. We all had chores from mowing the lawn, taking out garbage, housework, babysitting. YOu name it and I did it as a kid. The only difference was we weren't paid a salary to do any of it. I did all of that as a kid and I learned a lot.

Immi your right. I do agree with a lot that you say but I just can't stomach my taxdollar being used to take care of people who are here illegally.

I have no problem with legal immigration at all. Just illegals and the fact that these folks think we are a never ending supply of hard free social servicees.

I place a most of the blame on our Govt because THEY WILL NOT SECURE THE BORDER. If they did that we would not be having this conversation. Politics plain and simple.

We should have a work plan like Canada does where we tell the Mexicans how many workers we need. They come in. Do the work and go home. They do not stay in Canada and suck off their social services. Will this ever happen. Ain't holding my breath.

The next think I expect to see is blanket amnesty for all the illegals and their extended families.

I am not talking about mowing the lawn and yard work. I am talking about the back breaking work of picking fruits and vegetables and the "dirty work" that spoiled American children won't do. The low paying jobs that spoiled American children are too good to do like the janitorial workers that Walmart got busted for several years ago. We Americans expect to start at the top and finish at the top. We won't do those things that are "beneath us" any more but we will hire illegals under the table and save the payroll taxes we would have paid for them.

And again, I'm not saying I like this. I'm simply saying that I would rather support the poor rather than corrupt politicians and their pork.

Immie

Quit spoiling the child and he will.

 

[Immanuel]

As did I growinig up. We all had chores from mowing the lawn, taking out garbage, housework, babysitting. YOu name it and I did it as a kid. The only difference was we weren't paid a salary to do any of it. I did all of that as a kid and I learned a lot.

Immi your right. I do agree with a lot that you say but I just can't stomach my taxdollar being used to take care of people who are here illegally.

I have no problem with legal immigration at all. Just illegals and the fact that these folks think we are a never ending supply of hard free social servicees.

I place a most of the blame on our Govt because THEY WILL NOT SECURE THE BORDER. If they did that we would not be having this conversation. Politics plain and simple.

We should have a work plan like Canada does where we tell the Mexicans how many workers we need. They come in. Do the work and go home. They do not stay in Canada and suck off their social services. Will this ever happen. Ain't holding my breath.

The next think I expect to see is blanket amnesty for all the illegals and their extended families.

I am not talking about mowing the lawn and yard work. I am talking about the back breaking work of picking fruits and vegetables and the "dirty work" that spoiled American children won't do. The low paying jobs that spoiled American children are too good to do like the janitorial workers that Walmart got busted for several years ago. We Americans expect to start at the top and finish at the top. We won't do those things that are "beneath us" any more but we will hire illegals under the table and save the payroll taxes we would have paid for them.

And again, I'm not saying I like this. I'm simply saying that I would rather support the poor rather than corrupt politicians and their pork.

Immie

Quit spoiling the child and he will.

The point is that WE have spoiled our children. I'm not talking about my children only. I'm talking about the children of the citizens of the U.S. of A. Most of them are too spoiled, even the poor here are spoiled compared to other countries.

Are you suggesting we take steps backwards so that our kids learn what it is like to really be poor and hungry?

Immie

 

[froggy]

I am not talking about mowing the lawn and yard work. I am talking about the back breaking work of picking fruits and vegetables and the "dirty work" that spoiled American children won't do. The low paying jobs that spoiled American children are too good to do like the janitorial workers that Walmart got busted for several years ago. We Americans expect to start at the top and finish at the top. We won't do those things that are "beneath us" any more but we will hire illegals under the table and save the payroll taxes we would have paid for them.

And again, I'm not saying I like this. I'm simply saying that I would rather support the poor rather than corrupt politicians and their pork.

Immie

Quit spoiling the child and he will.

The point is that WE have spoiled our children. I'm not talking about my children only. I'm talking about the children of the citizens of the U.S. of A. Most of them are too spoiled, even the poor here are spoiled compared to other countries.

Are you suggesting we take steps backwards so that our kids learn what it is like to really be poor and hungry?

Immie

Would that be a bad thing?

 

[chanel]

That would not be a bad thing. As a teacher, it has become apparent that getting a good education to improve one's circumstances is a thing of the past. No one thinks their circumstances need improvement. Even those that live with 12 relatives in a trailer. You have to be hungry for a better life.

One national group, the Federation for American Immigration Reform, claims all levels of government combined spend more $1.6 billion a year on illegal immigrants in New Jersey. That's a loose estimate based on studies done in other high-immigrant states.

Estimates from the state, other sources and Press of Atlantic City analysis suggest more than $750 million a year is spent on education, health care, food stamps and other programs.

New Jersey state and local governments spend more than $10,000 per pupil on education. About 40,000 children of illegal immigrants attend school here, according to state legislative estimates. So government spends at least $400 million educating those children. Press analysis of recent illegal immigrant numbers suggests that the student population is closer to 45,000, costing $450 million or more for their education.The New Jersey Hospital Association estimates that member hospitals provide $257 million a year to treat in-patient illegal immigrants. The hospitals' estimate does not include patients treated in emergency rooms and released. So the price tag for medical treatment of illegal immigrants is higher.
Illegal immigrants do not qualify for welfare, but if they have children in this country, the children are citizens eligible for food stamps. The Center for Immigration Studies estimates that 12 percent of illegal immigrant households in New Jersey receive food stamps. Using an average U.S. household benefit of $213 a month, the annual cost in New Jersey would be around $50 million.
The state pays other expenses that are hard to quantify.

The Press estimated that if 70 percent of illegal immigrants working in New Jersey send $300 a month home, about $59 million a month is being taken out of the state's economy. That would mean more than $705 million a year is taken out of circulation.

Illegal Immigration: Americans Fighting Back - Illegal immigrants cost millions in N.J. tax dollars

 

[Angelhair]

'I am talking about the back breaking work of picking fruits and vegetables and the "dirty work" that spoiled American children won't do.'

If you look back in history, you will find that many AMERICANS picked fruit, cotton, etc. But - this country continued to progress via educating the masses and there came a time when there were very few uneducated to do this back breaking jobs. That is the time when the bracero program and such came into being. Third world countries continue to ignore educating the masses so the masses continue to do the back breaking jobs. This country continues to import workers to do these menial jobs and as long as we continue to educate and the other countries continue to not, we will need to import these type of workers.

 

[chanel]

Not if welfare wasn't so easily attainable.

 

[Said1]

[

We should have a work plan like Canada does where we tell the Mexicans how many workers we need. They come in. Do the work and go home. They do not stay in Canada and suck off their social services. Will this ever happen. Ain't holding my breath.

The next think I expect to see is blanket amnesty for all the illegals and their extended families.

You mean this? Seasonal Agricultural Worker Program - Government of Canada - Foreign Worker Program

 

[chanel]

NJ is expected to approve in state tuition for illegals next week. We already have the most expensive state colleges in the nation. I guess they will have to raise tuition again to make up the difference. Not to mention the scholarships that will be taken from the taxpayers children.

 

[Immanuel]

Quit spoiling the child and he will.

The point is that WE have spoiled our children. I'm not talking about my children only. I'm talking about the children of the citizens of the U.S. of A. Most of them are too spoiled, even the poor here are spoiled compared to other countries.

Are you suggesting we take steps backwards so that our kids learn what it is like to really be poor and hungry?

Immie

Would that be a bad thing?

In some ways, yes, it would be a bad thing. In others, no.

And for the record, I am not saying that it is a good thing that "we" won't do those things. I am simply stating that "we" won't do them. Our kids won't do them. As Angelhair states in this quote:

'I am talking about the back breaking work of picking fruits and vegetables and the "dirty work" that spoiled American children won't do.'

If you look back in history, you will find that many AMERICANS picked fruit, cotton, etc. But - this country continued to progress via educating the masses and there came a time when there were very few uneducated to do this back breaking jobs. That is the time when the bracero program and such came into being. Third world countries continue to ignore educating the masses so the masses continue to do the back breaking jobs. This country continues to import workers to do these menial jobs and as long as we continue to educate and the other countries continue to not, we will need to import these type of workers.

Americans used to be willing to do the back breaking work... but "used to" is the important part of that. Since the time of the Great Depression and with our progression to being a super-power we have become spoiled. Every generation becomes a little more spoiled than the last until we get where we are today.

I can tell you that as a young man, I would not have spent hours every day bent over the fields picking tomatoes for $0.35 an hour (or whatever the rate of pay was in the mid 70's) not on your life! I wasn't willing to do it and neither was anyone else that I knew. I was going to play professional football! I was going to take Ken Stabler's job away from him. There was no way I would have done that kind of work!

That is not a good thing, but it is the way we are. We all want better for our kids than what we had, so we're not about to make our kids pick cotton to get ahead in the world. Everyone wants their kids to go straight to college and from college into a six figure income and perish the thought of what it took to become a man when my grandfather was young.

Immie