So You Despise Capitalism? Please Give Us Your Alternative...

[Intense]

The reason you're not getting an answer is they don't understand the question.

No. The reason he's not getting the answers he wants is because he can't define the terms he's using. I posted a rather lengthy response to him a while back and ended it with asking him if that made me "Anti-Capitalism". I of course got no response, because the OP doesn't know what it means to be "Anti-Capitalism".

If he doesn't know what it means, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't, then THAT is the question you ask. You don't ask a misleading one and then insult anyone who doesn't answer it the way you want. That's just childish.

But hey, Paulitician might be a child for all we know.

lol! No one is required to meet your demands before you answer a question here. It's not my responsibility to define anything for you. Either answer the question in the post or simply move on. It's a message board. Come on man,have some fun. SHEESH!

Their Alternative is State Capitalism where Government is the End All to all of our problems, whether we consent or not. One size fits all. You know, where we all are required to bend to the will of the State. Disingenuous Control Freaks that they are, what did you expect?

 

[paulitician]

No. The reason he's not getting the answers he wants is because he can't define the terms he's using. I posted a rather lengthy response to him a while back and ended it with asking him if that made me "Anti-Capitalism". I of course got no response, because the OP doesn't know what it means to be "Anti-Capitalism".

If he doesn't know what it means, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't, then THAT is the question you ask. You don't ask a misleading one and then insult anyone who doesn't answer it the way you want. That's just childish.

But hey, Paulitician might be a child for all we know.

lol! No one is required to meet your demands before you answer a question here. It's not my responsibility to define anything for you. Either answer the question in the post or simply move on. It's a message board. Come on man,have some fun. SHEESH!

heh heh Let me guess. 12th grade Government class? This is your project and you want us to write it for you?

I answered your "question". Many of us did. If you don't understand it, that's your loss, not mine.

Good luck in life.

Ok so you answered the question already? I guess you didn't need my definition after all no? And your answer couldn't have been all that memorable. Also,why are you still on this thread? You can't join a thread and then make all these demands before you answer a question. Either you answer the question or you don't. You're not being forced to do anything on a message board. I can't help you answer a question. That's up to you. And i'm not trying to be rude. Just have some fun here. It's really not that big of a deal. Enjoy your day.

 

[Intense]

lol! No one is required to meet your demands before you answer a question here. It's not my responsibility to define anything for you. Either answer the question in the post or simply move on. It's a message board. Come on man,have some fun. SHEESH!

heh heh Let me guess. 12th grade Government class? This is your project and you want us to write it for you?

I answered your "question". Many of us did. If you don't understand it, that's your loss, not mine.

Good luck in life.

Ok so you answered the question already? I guess you didn't need my definition after all no? And your answer couldn't have been all that memorable. Also,why are you still on this thread? You can't join a thread and then make all these demands before you answer a question. Either you answer the question or you don't. You're not being forced to do anything on a message board. I can't help you answer a question. That's up to you. And i'm not trying to be rude. Just have some fun here. It's really not that big of a deal. Enjoy your day.

You are too polite.

 

[paulitician]

heh heh Let me guess. 12th grade Government class? This is your project and you want us to write it for you?

I answered your "question". Many of us did. If you don't understand it, that's your loss, not mine.

Good luck in life.

Ok so you answered the question already? I guess you didn't need my definition after all no? And your answer couldn't have been all that memorable. Also,why are you still on this thread? You can't join a thread and then make all these demands before you answer a question. Either you answer the question or you don't. You're not being forced to do anything on a message board. I can't help you answer a question. That's up to you. And i'm not trying to be rude. Just have some fun here. It's really not that big of a deal. Enjoy your day.

You are too polite.

Yea some people are just wound up too tightly. You can't make numerous demands before answering a question. Just answer it or don't. I think some really are Anti-Capitalism but are afraid to admit it for some reason. I don't know why. I can't get inside their heads. It's only a message board though. It doesn't cost anything to be open and honest. It's a Win/Win for everyone. I really didn't want to be rude but he or she kept making all sorts of demands. That just gets annoying after awhile. Anyway,thanks and have a great day.

 

[Intense]

Ok so you answered the question already? I guess you didn't need my definition after all no? And your answer couldn't have been all that memorable. Also,why are you still on this thread? You can't join a thread and then make all these demands before you answer a question. Either you answer the question or you don't. You're not being forced to do anything on a message board. I can't help you answer a question. That's up to you. And i'm not trying to be rude. Just have some fun here. It's really not that big of a deal. Enjoy your day.

You are too polite.

Yea some people are just wound up too tightly. You can't make numerous demands before answering a question. Just answer it or don't. I think some really are Anti-Capitalism but are afraid to admit it for some reason. I don't know why. I can't get inside their heads. It's only a message board though. It doesn't cost anything to be open and honest. It's a Win/Win for everyone. I really didn't want to be rude but he or she kept making all sorts of demands. That just gets annoying after awhile. Anyway,thanks and have a great day.

Yeah, Ironically, He seems pretty Stupid.

 

[thereisnospoon]

What a steaming load of bullshit this thread is premised on.

Do not end a sentence with a preposition.

 

[Dragon]

What a steaming load of bullshit this thread is premised on.

Do not end a sentence with a preposition.

This is the kind of petty nonsense up with which I will not put.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Anyone who uses terms like "corporate greed" is an anti-capitalist.

Thanks for that clarification. Finally, someone is willing to at least start on a definition of terms!

If anti-capitalism is defined to include opposition to the excesses of capitalism, and not restricted to opposition to the system itself, then we must include among anti-capitalists Republicans such as Theodore Roosevelt, Herbert Hoover, Dwight Eisenhower, and Richard Nixon, as well as Democrats such as Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy, and Lindon B. Johnson. We must include economists such as John Maynard Keynes, and also economic thinkers such as Adam Smith. All of these people have, at one time or another, expressed disapproval of the greed of the very wealthy, and favored measures to temper that greed.

We may therefore say that what you mean by "capitalism" is a system in which capitalists not only own the means of production, but are allowed to run amok without any restraints or regulations at all, and encouraged to do so by government at every turn.

I can therefore answer that what I would propose as a replacement for this type of "capitalism" is the regulated economy (which was also called "capitalist," incidentally) of the post-WWII decades, when unions were encouraged and strong, trade and tax policy were set to benefit the people as a whole instead of the very rich, and banks were regulated so as to prevent the kind of shell-games that led to the recent collapse.

You now have your answer. See how easy that was?

That is an analysis.
Now what would you recommend as a proper economic system?

 

[Dragon]

That is an analysis.
Now what would you recommend as a proper economic system?

Not only did I already explain that, but you quoted me doing so right before posting this evidence that you haven't read what you quoted.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Actually .... no. You list allot of Progressives. You do know that Progressivism is Anti Small Enterprise, Pro Monopoly, Pro Centralist control, One Size fits all Solutions.

LOL no I don't. And neither do you.

Not even going to bother with the rest of your post. If you're that afraid of the way the U.S. economy was run in the decades following World War II, which resulted in the strongest middle class and the highest level of opportunity for the most people of any economy anywhere in the world in all history, then you have issues.

It's pure hyperbole to call that "anti-capitalism," of course. Just as the things you said about progressivism are silly, paranoid nonsense.

Are you reasonably successful at your job/business? Do you live a reasonably comfortable life? Have good health? Have some comforts? Toys? Able to vacation at least once a year? Good family?
Just answer each question directly. Yes or no. The explanation is not required.
Again. These questions are written to be answered in one of two ways. Yes....No.

 

[kiwiman127]

Anger? About what?

 

[thereisnospoon]

What a steaming load of bullshit this thread is premised on.

Do not end a sentence with a preposition.

This is the kind of petty nonsense up with which I will not put.

See how easy that was.
Now ,back to our regularly scheduled program.

 

[Dragon]

Are you reasonably successful at your job/business? Do you live a reasonably comfortable life? Have good health? Have some comforts? Toys? Able to vacation at least once a year? Good family?
Just answer each question directly. Yes or no. The explanation is not required.
Again. These questions are written to be answered in one of two ways. Yes....No.

Wrong, there's a third answer which in this instance is perfectly appropriate:

Mind your own business, dickwad.

 

[kaz]

If anti-capitalism is defined to include opposition to the excesses of capitalism, and not restricted to opposition to the system itself, ...

When the government is confiscating and spending trillions of dollars it didn't earn, you're worried about the "excesses" of people with money they did earn? Can you say ass-backwards?

BTW, the way to end "excessive" capitalism is empowerment of consumers to make their choices with their own money, not politicians to make choices with other people's money. You may be detecting a pattern...but only if you're paying attention...

 

[Londoner]

When the government is confiscating and spending trillions of dollars it didn't earn

Study the global market system.

You will notice that American business depends upon resources and labor markets from nearly every corner of the globe.

Who do you think stabilizes trade routes or 3rd world countries run by tyrants? Do you know how much public investment has gone into Washington's visionary globalism, which they've been working on for over 1/2 a century? Do you know how much business depends on this globalism which has been developed and is sustained by government spending?

or...

Do you know what government did with returning WWII Vets? It put them to work building the infrastructure of suburban America - building roads, bridges, buildings, energy grids, water treatment plants, dams, etc., i.e., the necessary infrastructure upon which commerce depends.

Seems like you would need to list exactly what government does before you evaluated their spending.

My friend was doing archelogical work in central Africa. He stayed in a place where you had to unplug the appliances before going to bed every night because there were no fire codes or regulations. He also had to boil his water because there were no modern water facilities or regulations to ensure trustworthy drinking water. He had to drive 2 hours or have food transported long distances because there were no regulations in the local agriculture market, and people kept dying from pesticides and insufficiently protected food. This place also lacked the transportation infrastructure to move customers, goods, and services; therefore, it was not profitable for any business to invest in the area. (Aside from the costs of building modern transportation and food systems - aside from the costs of building modern sewer systems and electrical grids and the entire universe of public works - do you know the costs of maintaining these vast systems? Have you ever studied any of this? You should take a course in civil engineering. Look into how much your modern world cost to build. Look into who paid for it.)

(Is FOX News really this strong)

Business depends on a modern infrastructure and the regulation necessary to ensure safety and predictably. Business could not invest in a property that was in a flood plain or lacked sufficient fire codes or was not protected on some minimum level by police. Who do you think does all this? Just take law enforcement alone? Do you know how much government spends to protect private property so commerce is possible in the first place? -not only at level of policing but the courts? Meaning: business stands on the broad shoulders of the state in order to function. The Hoover Dam is responsible for much of the water (and power) of the American Southwest; indeed, it is the reason whole parts of the country exist in the first place. The consumer electronics boom in the 80s was heavily dependent upon the Cold War Pentagon and NASA budgets. (Do you know the kinds of technology the military developed and then handed to the private sector? Have you studied the Relationship between the government and research departments at places like Stanford and MIT? Do you know where commercial aviation came form? Study the history of Boeing. Government spending is directly & indirectly at the base of more things than you could name or count)

Please broaden your information sources. You might discover that jobs are not born in a vacuum, and that the modern industrial state is heavily dependent upon government to create the conditions for commerce.

Be careful with simplistic narratives about the evil government versus the innocent entrepreneur. If you look behind the curtain you might discover that commerce has always come from a very complex partnership.

 

[kaz]

Be careful with simplistic narratives about the evil government versus the innocent entrepreneur. If you look behind the curtain you might discover that commerce has always come from a very complex partnership.

Only a small part of government spending is going to fire codes. You say I'm simplistic, then present me the choice of no government or the massive wasteful pig we have today. And BTW, I'm a libertarian not an anarchist. I believe in limiting government, not eliminating it.

 

[Nic_Driver]

Be careful with simplistic narratives about the evil government versus the innocent entrepreneur. If you look behind the curtain you might discover that commerce has always come from a very complex partnership.

Only a small part of government spending is going to fire codes. You say I'm simplistic, then present me the choice of no government or the massive wasteful pig we have today. And BTW, I'm a libertarian not an anarchist. I believe in limiting government, not eliminating it.

Even a limited government should protect its citizens against predatory Capitalists.

 

[kaz]

Be careful with simplistic narratives about the evil government versus the innocent entrepreneur. If you look behind the curtain you might discover that commerce has always come from a very complex partnership.

Only a small part of government spending is going to fire codes. You say I'm simplistic, then present me the choice of no government or the massive wasteful pig we have today. And BTW, I'm a libertarian not an anarchist. I believe in limiting government, not eliminating it.

Even a limited government should protect its citizens against predatory Capitalists.

Kind of a vague statement. Can you be more specific? What sort of "protection" are you referring to? I'm in favor of freedom, not a side. So when you say a word ending with "ist" you are referring to a side.

 

[Nic_Driver]

Only a small part of government spending is going to fire codes. You say I'm simplistic, then present me the choice of no government or the massive wasteful pig we have today. And BTW, I'm a libertarian not an anarchist. I believe in limiting government, not eliminating it.

Even a limited government should protect its citizens against predatory Capitalists.

Kind of a vague statement. Can you be more specific? What sort of "protection" are you referring to? I'm in favor of freedom, not a side. So when you say a word ending with "ist" you are referring to a side.

How does the government protect its citizens against other types of predators?

There’s been a lot of talk about the legality of many of the actions that preceded the Great Recession. There hasn’t been much in the way of legal repercussions because strictly speaking, many of the actions weren’t illegal. They might have been immoral but that’s a far cry from illegal.

Clearly we can’t trust the altruistic nature of Capitalists to make them do the right thing so we need our Government to oversee them, tighten the reins and ensure we aren’t put in this position again.

Those that espouse loosening restrictions, especially so soon after, are simply wrong in my opinion.

If you’re going to tell me that the costs of regulation will make everything more expensive I’d reply that it’s nowhere near the costs of the bailout.

 

[kaz]

Even a limited government should protect its citizens against predatory Capitalists.

Kind of a vague statement. Can you be more specific? What sort of "protection" are you referring to? I'm in favor of freedom, not a side. So when you say a word ending with "ist" you are referring to a side.

How does the government protect its citizens against other types of predators?

There’s been a lot of talk about the legality of many of the actions that preceded the Great Recession. There hasn’t been much in the way of legal repercussions because strictly speaking, many of the actions weren’t illegal. They might have been immoral but that’s a far cry from illegal.

Clearly we can’t trust the altruistic nature of Capitalists to make them do the right thing so we need our Government to oversee them, tighten the reins and ensure we aren’t put in this position again.

Those that espouse loosening restrictions, especially so soon after, are simply wrong in my opinion.

If you’re going to tell me that the costs of regulation will make everything more expensive I’d reply that it’s nowhere near the costs of the bailout.

Demagoguery, sweeping statements and accusations mean nothing. I want specific policies that you are proposing. And I oppose all government bailouts of any private company, so that's an irrelevant statement to me. Competition means that losers go away, they don't go to the government. That is another example of government manipulation of private markets, not an example of my wanting government to stay out of them.