So, why do I find myself on the side of the Democrats, against many of the Republicans, and obama?

[eagle1462010]

Is there a conservative here who can tell this conservative why most in the right are for this thing?

this is the major complaint I have against the RNC. That said they have always been for "free" trade so we have to take the good with the bad.

In theory "free" trade is a great idea, if it were only possible. The problem is we are free trading with countries that make a whole lot less then Americans need to live. Apparently the Republicans learned nothing from Clinton's "free" trade agreements. The ones predicted to cause a "great sucking sound" of jobs leaving the country, and that indeed did happen.

As i have always said, free trade agreements don't pass under Republican Presidents, i am surprised that people like Pelosi held out. I wonder what she will be getting to vote yes next week. IF it passes on Tuesday you can damn well know that the pork was flying. Because we know nothing else changed in the bill.

NAFTA was originated by and signed by George HW Bush. It was ratified by Congress in a bi-partisan manner after GW lost the election in 1992, Clinton got the Dem support by including some weak provisions to protect the American worker.
CAFTA was originated by George W Bush and ratified by the GOP Congress.
I think you need to educate yourself.
Can you list all of Willie's free trade agreements?
Thank you.

 

[jasonnfree]

I have stated time and time again that protectionism is a two edged sword............to much protection then you get higher prices and they offset the savings of jobs...........too little and you outsource your jobs................

Nonsense. First, you should consider like the libs that you are directly contradicting the field of economics.

Now it is true there are winners and losers in free trade, but economics says the more the better as a whole. We don't have blacksmiths anymore either. Some will have to be retrained. Some companies will lose. But more companies will win and more jobs will be created than lost. You know what economics also says? Having our borders open even if other borders are closed is better than having our borders closed.

Here are a few things you are not factoring

- It's not a zero sum game. Lower prices mean consumers pay lower prices, they spend the money they save on something else
- Corporations that offshore save money and have more money to fund new projects or return it to their owners, the shareholders
- Foreign corporations are offshoring, which puts ours at a disadvantage
- Our government is actually driving companies offshore with taxes and regulations, shouldn't you start there rather than punishing companies who are trying to be more efficient?

If it's such a good bill, the tpp, why is it kept secret?

 

[2aguy]

i mean, I understand the everything obama does is bad and everything he says is a lie, but on this trade deal, I find myself in my usual spot against the Idiot in Chief, but why are all these Democrats here?

Seriously though, this trade deal is a job and US Economy killer. I admit to not knowing all there is to know about it, but from what I do know, it seems bad.

Educate me. What am I missing?

Tea party member nancy pelosi voted with 155 Tea Party and conservative Republicans to defeat establisment republicans and their statist friends in the democrat party.......

 

[Freewill]

Is there a conservative here who can tell this conservative why most in the right are for this thing?

this is the major complaint I have against the RNC. That said they have always been for "free" trade so we have to take the good with the bad.

In theory "free" trade is a great idea, if it were only possible. The problem is we are free trading with countries that make a whole lot less then Americans need to live. Apparently the Republicans learned nothing from Clinton's "free" trade agreements. The ones predicted to cause a "great sucking sound" of jobs leaving the country, and that indeed did happen.

As i have always said, free trade agreements don't pass under Republican Presidents, i am surprised that people like Pelosi held out. I wonder what she will be getting to vote yes next week. IF it passes on Tuesday you can damn well know that the pork was flying. Because we know nothing else changed in the bill.

NAFTA was originated by and signed by George HW Bush. It was ratified by Congress in a bi-partisan manner after GW lost the election in 1992, Clinton got the Dem support by including some weak provisions to protect the American worker.
CAFTA was originated by George W Bush and ratified by the GOP Congress.
I think you need to educate yourself.
Can you list all of Willie's free trade agreements?
Thank you.

Tell you the truth, when a person like myself that lived through all of that I don't need a history lesson from someone who definitely needs to read a history book.

Here, hear it for yourself from the worse president of my time. He screwed the working man like no other and is unashamed about it.

Bill Clinton on Free Trade

 

[2aguy]

Is there a conservative here who can tell this conservative why most in the right are for this thing?

Big business said "we want this thing so support Obama" and they just did and somehow do not feel any shame about it after years of blanket obstructionism. We live in a plutocracy and republicans are it's most loyal foot soldiers. Welcome to reality.

funny...how voting when they disagree with the President is obstruction....and then you forget about that when they vote with him when they agree with him.........you libtards are morons......

 

[Freewill]

I have stated time and time again that protectionism is a two edged sword............to much protection then you get higher prices and they offset the savings of jobs...........too little and you outsource your jobs................

Nonsense. First, you should consider like the libs that you are directly contradicting the field of economics.

Now it is true there are winners and losers in free trade, but economics says the more the better as a whole. We don't have blacksmiths anymore either. Some will have to be retrained. Some companies will lose. But more companies will win and more jobs will be created than lost. You know what economics also says? Having our borders open even if other borders are closed is better than having our borders closed.

Here are a few things you are not factoring

- It's not a zero sum game. Lower prices mean consumers pay lower prices, they spend the money they save on something else
- Corporations that offshore save money and have more money to fund new projects or return it to their owners, the shareholders
- Foreign corporations are offshoring, which puts ours at a disadvantage
- Our government is actually driving companies offshore with taxes and regulations, shouldn't you start there rather than punishing companies who are trying to be more efficient?

If it's such a good bill, the tpp, why is it kept secret?

Maybe it is being kept secret by request of the other nations who care about their image.

 

[PredFan]

i mean, I understand the everything obama does is bad and everything he says is a lie, but on this trade deal, I find myself in my usual spot against the Idiot in Chief, but why are all these Democrats here?

Seriously though, this trade deal is a job and US Economy killer. I admit to not knowing all there is to know about it, but from what I do know, it seems bad.

Educate me. What am I missing?

Tea party member nancy pelosi voted with 155 Tea Party and conservative Republicans to defeat establisment republicans and their statist friends in the democrat party.......

Have you ever heard anything so crazy in you life?

 

[2aguy]

Is there a conservative here who can tell this conservative why most in the right are for this thing?

The right isn't for it......career, washington Republicans are for it...there is a difference...Rush, Hannity and Levin all spoke out against it...and the Tea Party and Conservative Republicans fought it....those republicans who have become part of the "Combine" what Tribune Colulmnist John Cass would say is when the politicians don't care about party affiliation but vote for themselves....voted with obama.....

Paul Ryan...he is going to have serious problems......republicans actually vote out politicians who do stupid things...ask Eric Cantor....democrats....they will keep voting for their guys no matter how corrupt or evil they are.....

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[2aguy]

i mean, I understand the everything obama does is bad and everything he says is a lie, but on this trade deal, I find myself in my usual spot against the Idiot in Chief, but why are all these Democrats here?

Seriously though, this trade deal is a job and US Economy killer. I admit to not knowing all there is to know about it, but from what I do know, it seems bad.

Educate me. What am I missing?

Tea party member nancy pelosi voted with 155 Tea Party and conservative Republicans to defeat establisment republicans and their statist friends in the democrat party.......

Have you ever heard anything so crazy in you life?

Yeah...keep in mind....there are republicans who get into office and they are no different from democrats...they like big government...you find a lot of them in the North East...and Washington D.C. is a corrupting place....notice the Tea Party and Conservative republicans came out against it for the most part.....they want limited government and a separation of powers...as the Constitution intended it to be....democrats...the unions yanked the chain for once...and they had to jump....

Have you listened to Rush on this...or Mark Levin.....Levin actually interviewed the republicans opposed to this....go and listen to his shows...I think you can get it for free.....

This is why we support term limits.....leave a politician in Washington too long and even the best (and that isn't saying much) will become part of the system........

 

[2aguy]

Free trade isn't the problem......giving the President the power to make trade agreements without congressional oversight is......

 

[jasonnfree]

Is there a conservative here who can tell this conservative why most in the right are for this thing?

The right isn't for it......career, washington Republicans are for it...there is a difference...Rush, Hannity and Levin all spoke out against it...and the Tea Party and Conservative Republicans fought it....those republicans who have become part of the "Combine" what Tribune Colulmnist John Cass would say is when the politicians don't care about party affiliation but vote for themselves....voted with obama.....

Paul Ryan...he is going to have serious problems......republicans actually vote out politicians who do stupid things...ask Eric Cantor....democrats....they will keep voting for their guys no matter how corrupt or evil they are.....

Democrats were the votes that kept the bill from passing Friday. Not that Obama won't make offers this weekend that dems can't refuse, like he did barbara boxer. I think it's mixed who wants it, doesn't want it, but I'm willing to bet that the majority of Americans on both sides know that the these trade deals, especially since Nafta, hurt ordinary American workers.

 

[kiwiman127]

Is there a conservative here who can tell this conservative why most in the right are for this thing?

this is the major complaint I have against the RNC. That said they have always been for "free" trade so we have to take the good with the bad.

In theory "free" trade is a great idea, if it were only possible. The problem is we are free trading with countries that make a whole lot less then Americans need to live. Apparently the Republicans learned nothing from Clinton's "free" trade agreements. The ones predicted to cause a "great sucking sound" of jobs leaving the country, and that indeed did happen.

As i have always said, free trade agreements don't pass under Republican Presidents, i am surprised that people like Pelosi held out. I wonder what she will be getting to vote yes next week. IF it passes on Tuesday you can damn well know that the pork was flying. Because we know nothing else changed in the bill.

NAFTA was originated by and signed by George HW Bush. It was ratified by Congress in a bi-partisan manner after GW lost the election in 1992, Clinton got the Dem support by including some weak provisions to protect the American worker.
CAFTA was originated by George W Bush and ratified by the GOP Congress.
I think you need to educate yourself.
Can you list all of Willie's free trade agreements?
Thank you.

Tell you the truth, when a person like myself that lived through all of that I don't need a history lesson from someone who definitely needs to read a history book.

Here, hear it for yourself from the worse president of my time. He screwed the working man like no other and is unashamed about it.

Bill Clinton on Free Trade

Following diplomatic negotiations dating back to 1990 among the three nations, U.S. President George H. W. Bush, Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and Mexican President Carlos Salinas, each responsible for spearheading and promoting the agreement, ceremonially signed the agreement in their respective capitals on December 17, 1992.[5] The signed agreement then needed to be ratified by each nation's legislative or parliamentary branch.

The Canada–United States Free Trade Agreement had been very controversial and divisive in Canada, and the 1988 Canadian election was fought almost exclusively on that issue. In that election, more Canadians voted for anti-free trade parties (theLiberals and the New Democrats) but the split caused more seats in parliament to be won by the pro-free trade Progressive Conservatives (PCs). Mulroney and the PCs had a parliamentary majority and were easily able to pass the 1987 Canada-US FTA and NAFTA bills. However, he was replaced as Conservative leader and prime minister by Kim Campbell. Campbell led the PC party into the1993 election where they were decimated by the Liberal Party under Jean Chrétien, who had campaigned on a promise to renegotiate or abrogate NAFTA; however, Chrétien subsequently negotiated two supplemental agreements with the new US president. In the US, Bush, who had worked to "fast track" the signing prior to the end of his term, ran out of time and had to pass the required ratification and signing of the implementation law to incoming president Bill Clinton. Prior to sending it to the United States SenateClinton added two side agreements, The North American Agreement on Labor Cooperation (NAALC) and the North American Agreement on Environmental Cooperation (NAAEC), to protect workers and the environment, plus allay the concerns of many House members. It also required US partners to adhere to environmental practices and regulations similar to its own.[citation needed]

After much consideration and emotional discussion, the House of Representatives passed the North American Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act on November 17, 1993, 234-200. The agreement's supporters included 132 Republicans and 102 Democrats. The bill passed the Senate on November 20, 1993, 61-38.[6] Senate supporters were 34 Republicans and 27 Democrats. Clinton signed it into law on December 8, 1993; the agreement went into effect on January 1, 1994.[7][8] Clinton, while signing the NAFTA bill, stated that "NAFTA means jobs. American jobs, and good-paying American jobs. If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't support this agreement."[9]
North American Free Trade Agreement - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

No where did I say Clinton wasn't a guilty party to NAFTA, but you refuse to deal with the actual history. I noted that Clinton added weak protectionism of the American worker to get NAFTA passed with Dem votes. I have no problem saying, much to my disgust, that Willie signed off on NAFTA.
Also, in your previous post you mentioned "the trade agreements" (plural) under Clinton and I'd like to know what other agreements were.
You act like the GOP had nothing to do with free trade, yet they in a bi-partisan vote ratified NAFTA and carried the ball in the passing of of W's CAFTA.
Your history lesson is completed.

 

[kiwiman127]

Free trade isn't the problem......giving the President the power to make trade agreements without congressional oversight is......

Right, free trade had no effect on all the manufacturing facilities that closed down in the US and all the jobs lost which led to the demise of the working middle class.
Factual history is not on your side. Try again.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Free trade isn't the problem......giving the President the power to make trade agreements without congressional oversight is......

Right, free trade had no effect on all the manufacturing facilities that closed down in the US and all the jobs lost which led to the demise of the working middle class.
Factual history is not on your side. Try again.

Looking at this chart of manufacturing jobs, I can't tell when NAFTA was signed.
Can you? Should be obvious, with "Perot's sucking sound" of lost jobs.

 

[eagle1462010]

Did you think they would outsource overnight......................

 

[2aguy]

Free trade isn't the problem......giving the President the power to make trade agreements without congressional oversight is......

Right, free trade had no effect on all the manufacturing facilities that closed down in the US and all the jobs lost which led to the demise of the working middle class.
Factual history is not on your side. Try again.

Excessive taxes and hostile attitudes toward bussinesses made them move to the other countries...a bussiness will make money the easiest way possible...and making America harder to do business in sent them away...

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

PREDFAN SAID:

“I understand the everything obama does is bad and everything he says is a lie...”

Obviously you don't understand that this is actually a lie, in addition to being partisan, ridiculous, and wrong.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Did you think they would outsource overnight......................

How long does it take to build a factory? 10 years? 20?

 

[bripat9643]

Did you think they would outsource overnight......................

How long does it take to build a factory? 10 years? 20?

No, it only takes a couple of years at most. If government built one, then it would take 10 years.