So Which is it? Single Payer or Public Option?

[KMAN]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3BS4C9el98]YouTube - Single Payer Action Confronts Barney Frank[/ame]

Obama to Single Payer Advocates: Drop Dead | Physicians for a National Health Program

Obama Touts Single-Payer System for Health Care - Washington Wire - WSJ

PolitiFact | Obama statements on single-payer have changed a bit

I'm confused... Do they want single payer or not?????

 

[toomuchtime_]

YouTube - Single Payer Action Confronts Barney Frank

Obama to Single Payer Advocates: Drop Dead | Physicians for a National Health Program

Obama Touts Single-Payer System for Health Care - Washington Wire - WSJ

PolitiFact | Obama statements on single-payer have changed a bit

I'm confused... Do they want single payer or not?????

At least Frank is being honest about it in this interview, if not elsewhere, and one can never say that about Obama. If the purpose of the public option were not to drive private health insurance choices from the market, there would be no reason for Obama, Pelosi, et. al. to refuse to eliminate the possibility of future subsidies to the public plan. Of course, if they did that, the public plan would be just another non profit insurance company like the ones we already have, and there would be no reason to create it.

 

[Oddball]

It's the semantic shell game, that attempts to pimp this turkey as anything but what it is: Socialized medicine.

 

[PoliticalChic]

YouTube - Single Payer Action Confronts Barney Frank

Obama to Single Payer Advocates: Drop Dead | Physicians for a National Health Program

Obama Touts Single-Payer System for Health Care - Washington Wire - WSJ

PolitiFact | Obama statements on single-payer have changed a bit

I'm confused... Do they want single payer or not?????

At least Frank is being honest about it in this interview, if not elsewhere, and one can never say that about Obama. If the purpose of the public option were not to drive private health insurance choices from the market, there would be no reason for Obama, Pelosi, et. al. to refuse to eliminate the possibility of future subsidies to the public plan. Of course, if they did that, the public plan would be just another non profit insurance company like the ones we already have, and there would be no reason to create it.

Good, cogent points.

My back-and-forth with seemingly intelligent folks on the left makes me question their honesty, as it is 'a posteriori' that when one adds the myriad extras that to a private insurance policy it must, of necessity go up in price.

The next dot to connect is what an intelligent consumer would do: i.e., public option.

And since the plan is to prevent increasing premiums, the private company will go out of business.

Anyway, my question is how can our leftist friends claim not to see this?

 

[Oddball]

Because they're economic ignoramuses, who think they're doing everyone a big fat favor.

 

[toomuchtime_]

YouTube - Single Payer Action Confronts Barney Frank

Obama to Single Payer Advocates: Drop Dead | Physicians for a National Health Program

Obama Touts Single-Payer System for Health Care - Washington Wire - WSJ

PolitiFact | Obama statements on single-payer have changed a bit

I'm confused... Do they want single payer or not?????

At least Frank is being honest about it in this interview, if not elsewhere, and one can never say that about Obama. If the purpose of the public option were not to drive private health insurance choices from the market, there would be no reason for Obama, Pelosi, et. al. to refuse to eliminate the possibility of future subsidies to the public plan. Of course, if they did that, the public plan would be just another non profit insurance company like the ones we already have, and there would be no reason to create it.

Good, cogent points.

My back-and-forth with seemingly intelligent folks on the left makes me question their honesty, as it is 'a posteriori' that when one adds the myriad extras that to a private insurance policy it must, of necessity go up in price.

The next dot to connect is what an intelligent consumer would do: i.e., public option.

And since the plan is to prevent increasing premiums, the private company will go out of business.

Anyway, my question is how can our leftist friends claim not to see this?

I think many on the left do understand the purpose of the public option is to lead to a single payer system and they believe this is a good thing, so they avoid discussing this or pretend it isn't true when they have to discuss it. However for most Americans I think the desire to believe in this president is so great, because of exhaustion from the Bush years, the wish to have strong leadership in these difficult times and because they want to see America's first black president do well, that it would be painful for them to acknowledge how blatantly and shamelessly he has lied to them about the purpose of the public option.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Won't government run health care (puleezze, enough with the 'public option' pc shit; call it what it is folks) lead to single-payer? I mean, isn't that the point?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Won't government run health care (puleezze, enough with the 'public option' pc shit; call it what it is folks) lead to single-payer? I mean, isn't that the point?

It is clearly the intent of the public option to lead to a single payer system, but it is not entirely clear that tax subsidized premiums would be sufficient to do the job.

By 1971, all Canadians were guaranteed access to essential medical services, regardless of employment, income, or health (Kraker, 2002). Amid rising costs for health care, accompanied by low fees to doctors (which caused most to simply increase their daily caseload), many doctors opted out of the system and billed patients themselves. By the late 1970s and early 1980s there were calls to ban such extra billing and user fees – some Canadians could hardly find “opted-in” providers.
Health Care Without Hindrance

The Canadian Health Act of 1984, which was drafted in response to these protests, denies federal support to provinces that allow extra-billing within their insurance schemes and effectively forbids private or opted-out practitioners from billing beyond provincially man-dated fee schedules.

http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/Canada.pdf

Obama, Pelosi, Frank, Dodd, et. al. might find it necessary to try to pass such legislation here to finally make a single payer system work.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

YouTube - Single Payer Action Confronts Barney Frank

Obama to Single Payer Advocates: Drop Dead | Physicians for a National Health Program

Obama Touts Single-Payer System for Health Care - Washington Wire - WSJ

PolitiFact | Obama statements on single-payer have changed a bit

I'm confused... Do they want single payer or not?????

You cant nail anyone in politics, especially barney frank or Obama. Their positions will change like a chamelon to fit the current environment.